RGBHV over shielded Cat 5 success! - Page 4 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 524 Old 07-27-2001, 09:36 PM
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Cheap source for CAT5 STP. Also, VGA cables seem of resonable quality. http://www.national-tech.com/cgi-bin...5+stp&type=any

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post #92 of 524 Old 08-01-2001, 06:58 AM
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I have not jumped on this yet, but am planning too. I was wondering if a device like this http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=278%2D785
could be used to split the signal to two different sources, without degradation?

Thanks,

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post #93 of 524 Old 08-01-2001, 03:00 PM
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Nope. Don't confuse the RGBHV signal with any form of Ethernet. We are simply using some Ethernet cabling and termination hardware to carry a very different signal.

You can use the Cat-5 cable, you can even use the Cat-5 junction boxes as patch panels or to sub for more expensive video crossbar switches. But do not try to process an RGBHV signal through any active Ethernet electronics or even through the transformer-type splitter above.

The reason this won't work: we have used one of the four twisted pairs in the cable (Brown/Brown Stripe) for H and V sync signals, and the splitter above would short the two signals togather, possibly damaging equipment. Nor should this be tried with the three-twisted-pair YPbPr component video variant discussed in the last few messages, because the splitter is intended for the 100-ohm impedance of the twisted pair without one wire grounded, not the 75-ohm variant that results from our scheme.

The proper way to drive two monitors with one signal would be to terminate the Cat-5 cable with the VGA connector, then run through a normal VGA distribution amplifier.

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post #94 of 524 Old 08-02-2001, 12:14 AM
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Just finished building my first pair of cables and wanted to send a big THANKS to MrWigggles and Thumper. The cables work beautifully and the Cat5 STP will be so much easier to run to my ceiling mount (once I actually do it) than any of the alternatives would have been.
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post #95 of 524 Old 08-02-2001, 07:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by UpSide:
I am all ready to make this cable but the 100 ohm shielded cat 5 cable I bought has the following colors:
red, green, blue, orange, white, black, brown, yellow.

I just bought some cable similar to what UpSide got. It is shielded but not twisted. Does that make a difference.

What is the pin sequence on the DB15 connector? Looking at the exposed pins, is it:

1.3.5.7.9.11.13.15
.2.4.6.8.10.12.14

If RJ-45 connectors are going to be used, what is the ground shield wire connected to? Do you need to use an RJ-45 connector for shielded CAT5 cable or do you use regular RJ-45 connectors (for non-shielded cable)?

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by GaryWW (edited 08-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by GaryWW (edited 08-03-2001).]
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post #96 of 524 Old 08-03-2001, 10:22 AM
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Gary,

I'd be very wary of using anything other than cable specified as "shielded category 5". I don't think you'll get good results with non-twisted.

Which end of your cable uses a DB-15 connector? The standard VGA connector is HD-15, which is a DB-9 sized connector with three rows of pins. The pin numbers are
usually marked on the connector (but you need good eyesight or a magnifying glass to see them). Here is a picture of a female DB-15. If you are using a male DB-15, then this is what the pin numbering will look like from the side you solder to. I still question whether DB-15 is really what you want. I don't even know which pins you would want to connect to.

If you are putting your own RJ-45 connectors on, you will need to make sure they are the shielded type, which have a metal covering over them. You also need a tool to put these on. I haven't done this, but the pre-made ones from Frys (Unicom brand) have the shield wire folded back and crimped under the connector so that it makes contact with the metal shield. You can see it peeking out from the back edge of the RJ-45.

- Chris
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post #97 of 524 Old 08-03-2001, 10:29 AM
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Chris,

You are sooo right. Wrong cable (although I asked for the right stuff) and wrong connector. I'm on track now. Thanks!

I bought the correct HD15 connector today and I can just make out the pin numbers.

BTW, do the shielded RJ-45 connectors require a special crimper? I have access to a crimper for unshielded RJ-45.
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post #98 of 524 Old 08-03-2001, 01:44 PM
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I would think that a normal crimper would work, but I haven't done this. Give it a try and report back with your results!

- Chris
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post #99 of 524 Old 08-09-2001, 01:48 AM
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Another newbie on this forum. This is my first post so "please be nice". I've been lurking around this forum for some months and had all my questions answered by searching and reading a lot of your post. You know a lot on this forum...

Right now I'm waiting for my projector to show up but would like to prepare some cable and this cable sounded like a cheap and good solution. But I can't seem to figure out how to read the connection to the HD-15 male solder cup plugs and I'm sure it is because of my poor english.

If I count the numbers of cables MR Wigggles is using I get 11 (Two for pin 1,2 and 3) and (1 for pin 6,7,8,13 and 14) but the cat 5 cable only has 8?

What am I missing here ? Is it OK only to use 1 cable on the pin 1,2 and 3? e.g. green for pin 2 and green stripe for pin 7? Is this the way I should read the post.

Thanks in advance
Anders

EDIT: Forget it. I figured it out...

[This message has been edited by atjensen (edited 08-09-2001).]

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post #100 of 524 Old 08-09-2001, 04:33 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chris Satterlee:
I would think that a normal crimper would work, but I haven't done this. Give it a try and report back with your results!- Chris

I talked to some guys today who do LAN cable installations for a living and they said a regular crimper would work. I will report back next week after the cable and connectors arrive.

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post #101 of 524 Old 08-09-2001, 04:40 PM
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atjensen & all,

Only one wire gets attached to one pin.

I think there is confusion because maybe not all cat5 cables have the same colored wires. The cat5 unshielded cable that I'm looking at right now has Orange-white/White-orange, Blue-white/White-blue, Brown-white/White-brown, and Green-white/White-green wires. And the "minor" colors are a thin stripe running the length of the wire. Other people have wiring where the "minor" color is in bands.
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post #102 of 524 Old 08-09-2001, 05:18 PM
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Purchased some STP today and the necessary connectors. I'm also going to try some RCA connectors for a component connection. Can someone help me figure out what size shrink tubing I need? Thanks.
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post #103 of 524 Old 08-12-2001, 04:54 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jin kim:
Purchased some STP today and the necessary connectors. I'm also going to try some RCA connectors for a component connection. Can someone help me figure out what size shrink tubing I need? Thanks.

3/32" for the wire pairs. 1/4" for over the entire Cat5 cable.
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post #104 of 524 Old 08-12-2001, 10:56 PM
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What are the chances of this technique (transmission over shielded CAT-5) working for a DVI interconnect which I believe is based on a 29-pinout rather than VGA's 15-pin?

If this might work, how CAT-5 cable runs would be required?

-- John
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post #105 of 524 Old 08-13-2001, 10:02 AM
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If you want to try it on DVI i say good luck, it will never work. the connections are too precise, the data speed is FAR too high, and most importnatly, with DVI, there cannot be ANY difference in length between any of the pairs. In a cat 5/5e/6 cable there is always a difference in the lengths.

DVI cables cannot be manmade. (i am sure that there is one person out there who will prove me wrong) Mere mortals do not have the skills required. And the cable used is also very precise.

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post #106 of 524 Old 08-13-2001, 10:05 AM
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If you want to try it on DVI i say good luck, it will never work. the connections are too precise, the data speed is FAR too high, and most importnatly, with DVI, there cannot be ANY difference in length between any of the pairs. In a cat 5/5e/6 cable there is always a difference in the lengths.

DVI cables cannot be manmade. (i am sure that there is one person out there who will prove me wrong) Mere mortals do not have the skills required. And the cable used is also very precise.

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post #107 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 07:37 AM
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I'm happy to report that I was successful in making one of these cables. I burned through 4 HD-15 connectors with my horrible soldering skills, but I finally got one working. 50 bucks for a 35' VGA cable is a sweet deal!

Brian
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post #108 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 08:24 AM
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I must be missing something, is the only reason to make this cable is for ease of running thru walls?
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post #109 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 08:49 AM
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would anyone know if there would be a degradation in signal if a male-female DH-15 couple was used as a junction between cable sets?

what was the reason that Mr.Wigggles opted for the Ethernet jacks? It seems that a RJ-45 crimper would cost more than the cost of everything else related to the cables.
-jeff
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post #110 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 12:16 PM
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Boatman,

See MrWigggles' initial post in this thread for his list of five advantages of these cables. The big two (IMO) are the thinner form factor and the ability to do poor-man's switching. While is it is true that the thinner form factor makes it easier to run cables through walls, it also makes it possible to run the ON THE SURFACE of walls without destroying room aesthetics. I just installed mine last week. I used Liquid Nails to glue it to the corner between the ceiling and the wall (actually just below the crown moulding), and then painted it. Unless it is pointed out, no one would notice that it is even there. This is what makes this technique such a "killer app" for me. I had deferred buying an HDTV STB for months because I didn't want to deal with tearing my room apart to run a new cable. Now I am happily enjoying HDTV on my G11, thanks to MrWiggles and Thumper.

Jeff,

RJ45 connectors are very easy to plug and unplug. Most people aren't crimping their own, but are buying premade shielded cat 5 patch cables. You cut the premade cable into two pieces and put the HD-15 connectors on the cut ends.

- Chris
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post #111 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 12:24 PM
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Thanks Chris, I thought I was missing something. I'll stick to my 40' vga cable its working just fine, don't need any more problems.
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post #112 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 12:50 PM
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this place has a number of manual switch boxes: http://www.iec-usa.com/framepr.html




this one is only 23.00 (the economy model). There is also a Lifetime Guaranteed model for around $60.00.

could this work for our purposes? maybe I will have to give them a call, dont really see any info on bandwidth, but if it is a true VGA switcher than it should work, right?
-Jeff

ps. they also have cat5 by the ft.
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post #113 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 01:33 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by boatman:
I must be missing something, is the only reason to make this cable is for ease of running thru walls?

Well, I made one because a similar length cable from bettercables was going to be $325. This cable cost me about 50 bucks and some trial and error.

Brian

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post #114 of 524 Old 08-14-2001, 02:07 PM
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Using the "Mr. Wiggles" method of shielded Cat5 VGA, (thanks Wig...) I took another step. I have a Toshiba 6200 Progressive scan DVD player as well as my DTC-100. Both with 15 pin connection output. With the LT150 Ceiling mounted and my equipment rack built into a wall, It was going to be a pain to manually switch cables with the sources, or expensive with a switcher of any substantial quality. Here is what I did.
I took a 6-foot BNC to VGA breakout cable to a Female hd15 connector soldered to a 2 foot pigtail of Cat5 shielded cable, teminated this onto a Cat5 shielded patch panel. From there, I have a 27 foot Cat5 shielded cable to a male hd15 connector plugged into my new LT150. Jumpered together with a 3 foot Cat5 shielded patch cable. I also have a 3 foot piece of Cat5 shielded with a male hd15 terminated on the patch panel as well. Now to switch sources, I just move one end of the patch cable. Works great! No visible signal degradation from tests when I was plugging directly into the LT150 with a six foot cable. I also have a Toshiba TW56x81 that uses the same sources. A third Cat5 pigtail feeds a Audio authority VGA to Component converter to the Toshiba. All of this cost me less than $125.00 and a few hours time. I hope this can help someone else or at least give them some ideas!



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post #115 of 524 Old 08-15-2001, 10:50 AM
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OK,

Can someone please tell me which Belden Cat5 cable would be the cable of choice for this project. I was looking at Belden 1585A but this is unsheilded. Any part #'s anyone?

------------------
Serge


Acurus Act-3 ABM processor
B&K AV 5000 II
Monitor Audio Silver 5's, silver center and silver 3's(rears)
HSU VTF 2 subwoofer
Toshiba DVD/cd
Mitsubishi LVP X70 FPTV
Dalite High Contrast Da-mat 16:9 grey screen
RCA DTC 100
HTPC consisting of Duron 750, AOpen AK 73Pro motherboard, Radeon LE video and SBLive! Value II sound
Extron VGA SW2 switcher

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post #116 of 524 Old 08-15-2001, 10:59 AM
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For those looking at HD15 video switchers, even some of the more expensive ones aren't what you want: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/015615.html


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post #117 of 524 Old 08-15-2001, 01:40 PM
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Silly Question but, when making the HD15-Component (3 RCA) why are you using the overall shield ground on the (Y-) RCA plug instead of just using the (Y-) wire twisted in the pair?

Drew
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post #118 of 524 Old 08-16-2001, 04:35 PM
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This "dammed " HT world I stumbled into. It gives me headaches and very little sleep. What was supposed to be an easy job (making this cable) has turned into a 30 hour project.

The problem started when I received the little devil called LT150 ( I LIKE IT !!! and it is my first projector). I do not have a HTPC, only an interlaced DVD player (Panasonic DVD RV60). I mistakenly assumed that RGB = YbCr because my DVD player outputs RGB and I thought that RGB was component. Well, it is not the same. I figured out that I need the composite signal as a source for H(V)sync and I tried to feed the projector with this signal but only with limited success. I can see an image for a split second then it disappears.

By further searching the internet I found out that I need some kind of sync separator which converts the composite signal to H&V sync (RGBS to RGBHV) and probably also amplifies the signal?.

Now the question is: Can I make this device my self and if yes where can I find some circuit drawing describing what I should do?

Can I buy this device and if yes where could I buy it?

You probably need to know that I'm European and that it should work with PAL. I'm not looking for some $500 device which makes me do all kind of things to my signal even though that could be nice, but my budget for the next several months was used when I bought this projector.

Please help and thanks in advance
Anders


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post #119 of 524 Old 08-16-2001, 04:57 PM
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Anders, please peruse your LT150 Users Manual. It is probably the case (as with my VT540) that the YPBPr signal is connected to the same RGB (aka HD-15) connector, but with a different cable that has no connection to the sync pins (pins 13 and 14). Then you select between "RGB" and "Component" within the Setup menu.

There is an earlier series of messages in the thread where the construction of component video cables with three RCA plugs is discussed.

Gary

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post #120 of 524 Old 08-16-2001, 05:17 PM
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Thanks Gary but I have tried that. There is no possible way the projector will accept the RGB output from my DVD player. The RGB output from my DVD player is without HV sync and designed for televisions sold in Europe. For some reason they constructed the TVs to take the sync signal from the composite signal. All this is done through a SCART interface which carries both composite and RGB signals. The "advantage" of this is that a TV with no cabability to receive the RGB signal will use the composite instead. That's what I've been told by the dealer and found on the internet.

The RGB signal from my DVD player equals the RGB signal from a PC but without the sync

Because the projector does not accept the sync signal from the composite (The composite sync signal only has a strenght of 0.3Vpp and the projector needs 0.7Vpp) I can not get the projector to accept the RGB signal nor the sync.

That's the problem

Anders

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