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post #1 of 9 Old 06-27-2016, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Wireless 4K (2160P) with HDR10 & Dolby Vision

Hi:


We currently have a home theater which we built in 2007 things have changed a lot since then although we still have a great time watching our current set up with our Marantz 15S1 projector on a 110" Stewart Firehawk G3 Screen along with our Pioneer Elite Receiver. We have theater seats with wireless base shakers to go along with the Dolby 5.1 sound using Atlantic Technology speakers.


When we wired the ceiling we ran a couple of Atlona HDMI cables 1.3b certified (39Ft) and a couple of Cat5e cables all back to the area where our A/V components are located. Never have used the Cat 5e but thought it would be a good idea to put them in.


Everything works great and we have up to 1080P video.


Fast forward to 2016 and 4K (2160P) video with HDR or Dolby Vision is now on the scene and even though content is very limited we can see the day when we would probably want to upgrade our projector to one that will be able to provide us with these increased video resolutions.


Unfortunately we did not run a conduit from the projector back to A/V component area so we can not upgrade the existing cables without tearing out the ceiling and probably the wall where the A/V components and cabinet is located. (Would be a tough one to get my wife to agree to!!)


It would seem to me that our type of installation is probably common and there are many other home theaters that can not upgrade their cables without a significant amount of cost and disruption.


In fact it seems like there is no end to this constant requirement to having to upgrade cables in order to meet transfer rates for these new higher resolutions.


If Direct TV can beam 4K (2160P) video to your home from a satellite located hundreds of miles in the air why can we not send a 4K (2160P) video signal only from our A/V receiver video output to the input of Projector located 20 or 25 feet away?


A wireless solution to be able to send 4K(2160P) with HDR10 or Dolby Vision from an A/V Receiver to a Projector would be a product welcomed by a lot of people in the same situation that we find ourselves in.


I know hard wired is always the best solution but it is 2016 and just seems like this issue should be able to be solved wirelessly.


A/V manufacturers could add a "wireless" output port on their units which a "transmitter" could be plugged into and this would be pair with a "receiver" that is plugged into the HDMI input on the projector. Even if this was a "line of sight" system it would work for most people I would think.


Please let me know your thoughts if this is possible or not.


Regards.
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post #2 of 9 Old 06-27-2016, 11:49 AM
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Ill let someone else address the tech side.

If your not able to find a solution, before you tear out the sheetrock.... Cut the end of your existing hdmi cord and tape the new cord to the end. Its important the new and old cord are lined up , with plug centered , for at least 6" and wrap tightly with electrical. Cant emphasize the "tightly" part as you will be exerting tons of pressure while pulling. Also theres a fine line between enough tape and too much. Over wrapping will make it harder to pull and under wrapping, well you get the idea. You can also grab some bowling alley wax or similar and wipe on edge with tape. Electricians pull new wires like this, the only hitch could be the size of the holes drilled for the wires and more importantly if the old where anchored in any way

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post #3 of 9 Old 06-28-2016, 08:45 AM
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There is almost no circumstance I've been in where you can use an existing cable to pull a new cable. But, in this case, there is no need to.

FIRST: Why can't you just buy some wireless gizmo and be done with it?

DirecTV broadcasts professionally encoded h.264 or h.265 signals which have extremely high compression applied to them. Their 2160 is a long way from high quality 4K, but their encoders are top notch and add minimal delay.

When it gets to the DirecTV receiver, then it must be decoded. Uncompressed 2160p/60 can run in excess of 10Gbs. A typical home WIRED network often runs at 1Gbs today. So, that's 10 times the capacity of your current wired home Ethernet setup.

Clearly, getting a uncompressed wireless signal across the room, while not impossible, is far more difficult, and far more technical than you may have imagined. Now, if you put a 18" dish at your A/V receiver and a 18" dish up by your projector, I'm sure it would be a lot easier. You would have lag, but that's part of wireless!

SECOND: You don't need it.

There is no such thing as a 1.3b HDMI cable. There are only high speed and standard speed HDMI cables, and sometimes those ratings aren't accurate. So, the very first thing you do is you get some 4K content, and a 4K projector, and you try your existing cables. They may very well work just fine.

If they do NOT work find, then you move on to HD-Base-T (HDBT), which uses the cat-5e wires in place to provide a hard wired custom solution. They aren't cheap, but they are an industry standard, and the newest versions of HDBT can support 4K video. I use them throughout my home for 1080p without issue. The best part is that the cat-5e gets cut exactly to the length you need, so it is truly a custom solution.

This unit, by example, says it can deliver 4K w/HDCP2.2 support for $110.00

https://www.amazon.com/Extender-HDBa...+cat5e+hdcp2.2

Seems like a small price considering the high reliability of a wired signal. Your original installer did a good job pulling the extra cat-5e cables.

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post #4 of 9 Old 06-28-2016, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC57 View Post
Hi:


We currently have a home theater which we built in 2007 things have changed a lot since then although we still have a great time watching our current set up with our Marantz 15S1 projector on a 110" Stewart Firehawk G3 Screen along with our Pioneer Elite Receiver. We have theater seats with wireless base shakers to go along with the Dolby 5.1 sound using Atlantic Technology speakers.


When we wired the ceiling we ran a couple of Atlona HDMI cables 1.3b certified (39Ft) and a couple of Cat5e cables all back to the area where our A/V components are located. Never have used the Cat 5e but thought it would be a good idea to put them in.


Everything works great and we have up to 1080P video.


Fast forward to 2016 and 4K (2160P) video with HDR or Dolby Vision is now on the scene and even though content is very limited we can see the day when we would probably want to upgrade our projector to one that will be able to provide us with these increased video resolutions.


Unfortunately we did not run a conduit from the projector back to A/V component area so we can not upgrade the existing cables without tearing out the ceiling and probably the wall where the A/V components and cabinet is located. (Would be a tough one to get my wife to agree to!!)


It would seem to me that our type of installation is probably common and there are many other home theaters that can not upgrade their cables without a significant amount of cost and disruption.


In fact it seems like there is no end to this constant requirement to having to upgrade cables in order to meet transfer rates for these new higher resolutions.


If Direct TV can beam 4K (2160P) video to your home from a satellite located hundreds of miles in the air why can we not send a 4K (2160P) video signal only from our A/V receiver video output to the input of Projector located 20 or 25 feet away?


A wireless solution to be able to send 4K(2160P) with HDR10 or Dolby Vision from an A/V Receiver to a Projector would be a product welcomed by a lot of people in the same situation that we find ourselves in.


I know hard wired is always the best solution but it is 2016 and just seems like this issue should be able to be solved wirelessly.


A/V manufacturers could add a "wireless" output port on their units which a "transmitter" could be plugged into and this would be pair with a "receiver" that is plugged into the HDMI input on the projector. Even if this was a "line of sight" system it would work for most people I would think.


Please let me know your thoughts if this is possible or not.


Regards.
Since you have a heavy duty passive cable in place, I would try adding a HDM-GA1 to it and see if it will not work for you.
https://metrahometheater.com/hdm-ga1.html/

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post #5 of 9 Old 06-28-2016, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys:


Thanks for the reply and info.


I looked at HD BaseT before but it seemed to have limitation with the transfer rates.


Below is my email to a HD BaseT supplier and their reply.


Regards,


Mitch
Hi:


In 2007 we installed a Home Theater in our basement we are using a 1080P DLP Marantz VP-15S1 Projector, this has given us great service over the years and continues to do so.





With 2160P/60 video along with HDR10 and Dolby Vision we are looking at what will be required in the future in order to upgrade to this video standard with the least possible amount of renovations.





When we install our current set up we ran an Atlona 12 M Flat HDMI cable (1.3b) from the video rack to the ceiling where the projector is. (we actually ran two just in case)


We also ran two Cat 5e cables just in case although we have never used them.





The walls and ceiling are all dry walled so to run new cables is a problem from both cost and disruption.





This brings me to your HD Base T product lines.





It seems that these items would potentially solve our problem since we have two Cat 5e cables in place.





It seems that HD Base T is limited to a transfer rate of 10.2 GBPs versus 18 GBPs do I need to be concerned about this?





Our goal is to be able to move the video signal from the video rack up to the projector at 2160P/60 and to take advantage of HDR10 or Dolby Vision. I guess Dolby Vision goes up to 12 Bit.





I am not completely familiar with Chroma Subsampling: 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0 but I would think we would need to handle this as well.





Over the next while I expect newer projectors to appear on the market so in the mean time I would like to understand what I will need to do from a cable perspective.





Please let me know your thoughts.



REPLY BELOW:
Unfortunately, HDR is beyond the realm of capabilities of which the HDBASE-T signal can handle. HDBASE-T supports up to 10.2 Gps signal. An UHD/4k 10 bit signal surpasses this at 11.14Gbps. Nothing in the HDBaseT roadmap to address this at this time. However, future HDR video sources may give you the option to set their output down to an 8 bit signal to facilitate HDBASE-T usage. At this time, we have limited access to these video sources. We will have more QA development when they are more readily available. Feel free to check in with us down the road to see if we have a valid solution for you.





Thanks again and let me know if you have any further questions. Have a great day!


************************************************** ********************
I did the install and should have installed a conduit so I could easily pull new updated cables.... that's what you get when you do it your self!
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post #6 of 9 Old 06-28-2016, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 9 Old 06-28-2016, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 9 Old 06-28-2016, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC57 View Post
Hi:


We currently have a home theater which we built in 2007 things have changed a lot since then although we still have a great time watching our current set up with our Marantz 15S1 projector on a 110" Stewart Firehawk G3 Screen along with our Pioneer Elite Receiver. We have theater seats with wireless base shakers to go along with the Dolby 5.1 sound using Atlantic Technology speakers.


When we wired the ceiling we ran a couple of Atlona HDMI cables 1.3b certified (39Ft) and a couple of Cat5e cables all back to the area where our A/V components are located. Never have used the Cat 5e but thought it would be a good idea to put them in.


Everything works great and we have up to 1080P video.


Fast forward to 2016 and 4K (2160P) video with HDR or Dolby Vision is now on the scene and even though content is very limited we can see the day when we would probably want to upgrade our projector to one that will be able to provide us with these increased video resolutions.


Unfortunately we did not run a conduit from the projector back to A/V component area so we can not upgrade the existing cables without tearing out the ceiling and probably the wall where the A/V components and cabinet is located. (Would be a tough one to get my wife to agree to!!)


It would seem to me that our type of installation is probably common and there are many other home theaters that can not upgrade their cables without a significant amount of cost and disruption.


In fact it seems like there is no end to this constant requirement to having to upgrade cables in order to meet transfer rates for these new higher resolutions.


If Direct TV can beam 4K (2160P) video to your home from a satellite located hundreds of miles in the air why can we not send a 4K (2160P) video signal only from our A/V receiver video output to the input of Projector located 20 or 25 feet away?


A wireless solution to be able to send 4K(2160P) with HDR10 or Dolby Vision from an A/V Receiver to a Projector would be a product welcomed by a lot of people in the same situation that we find ourselves in.


I know hard wired is always the best solution but it is 2016 and just seems like this issue should be able to be solved wirelessly.


A/V manufacturers could add a "wireless" output port on their units which a "transmitter" could be plugged into and this would be pair with a "receiver" that is plugged into the HDMI input on the projector. Even if this was a "line of sight" system it would work for most people I would think.


Please let me know your thoughts if this is possible or not.


Regards.
Bite the bullet, put a conduit in and never worry about this again. About one week to hot mud the patch and re - paint like it never happened. Sometimes you can't avoid surgery !

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post #9 of 9 Old 07-13-2016, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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4K over 2 Cat 5e Cables.

Hi Guys:


I found this unit looking around on the Internet.


Looks like it might be a solution to my problem since I installed two Cat 5e cables in the ceiling when I built the room. (Never have used them but I thought would be a good idea back in 2007!)


I have emailed the company that makes this unit to confirm it will process HDR 10 and Dolby Vision since it talks about HDMI 2.0 and I think you need HDMI 2.0a to cover off HDR 10 and Dolby Vision.


http://www.silrd.com/srd-hd2-cat


If anyone has used this unit or has a comment please let me know.


Thanks.
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