Sony VPL-VZ1000ES Ultra Short-Throw 4K HDR Projector at CES 2017 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 104 Old 01-05-2017, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony VPL-VZ1000ES Ultra Short-Throw 4K HDR Projector at CES 2017

The Sony VPL-VZ1000ES UST 4K HDR projector can reproduce an impressive picture at a distance of only six inches from the wall.

http://www.avsforum.com/sony-vpl-vz1...r-at-ces-2017/
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post #2 of 104 Old 01-05-2017, 05:04 PM
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Hmm i started this early on today - New sony VPL-VZ1000ES [Ultra short throw + Laser]

Nobody seems to like ultra short throw around here
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post #3 of 104 Old 01-05-2017, 07:12 PM
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That thing is a beast. Lens shift and zoom, HDMI 2.0 on all inputs? I'm budget minded but would really consider shelling out for this if the reviews come back positive. Realistically, probably not, because it's hard for me to spend that type of cash on anything not an investment of some sort but there has never been an AV product of this magnitude that has gotten my attention. I'll likely end up getting whatever laser 4k (or even a solid 1080p) USTs that Optoma, Acer, BenQ etc has in the pipeline. But damn, talk about future proof!

IMO, the louvered screen is the bigger part of the equation as they account for the extreme throw angle, especially in a non-dedicated space. Functionally, that makes this type of setup similiar to what Samsung does with their One Connect box and what LG will be doing with their W-series OLED. As the tech evolves, you keep the screen and change out the brains.

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post #4 of 104 Old 01-05-2017, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
The Sony VPL-VZ1000ES UST 4K HDR projector can reproduce an impressive picture at a distance of only six inches from the wall.

http://www.avsforum.com/sony-vpl-vz1...r-at-ces-2017/
Nice tech, but still 25K. Can't wait for the time true 4K ultra short throws are actually affordable. Sub $5k.
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post #5 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 12:22 AM
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Another Sony VPL-VZ1000ES related/inspiring article by projectorreviews Art Feierman.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/the-...-theater-room/

This is great !!! Prices are coming down for 4K HDR Ultra Short-Throw Laser-Source projectors. If you look at the price trend:
  • 2016 model (Sony VPL-GTZ1) @ $50.000
  • 2017 model (Sony VPL-VZ1000ES) @ $25.000

Possible predictions:
  • Future 2018 model, maybe @ $15.000 ...
  • Future 2019 model, maybe @ $8.000 ...
  • Future 2020 model, maybe @ $4.000 ...
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post #6 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 06:15 AM
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Now I wonder what contrast ratio can we expect??

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post #7 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Now I wonder what contrast ratio can we expect??

one billion , gagillion, fafillion, shabolubalu million yillion : 1
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post #8 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 08:31 AM
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This is the first sony 4k projector with 18ghz (hdmi 2.0) finally !!! ?

Can someone please find out the NATIVE CONTRAST on this thing not the advertised 1:infinity bull-crap
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post #9 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 09:03 AM
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Scott at $25k does this belong in the over $20k forum instead?
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post #10 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 11:23 AM
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Looks awesome. But for that much money I could hire a contractor to do whatever is needed to setup a normal projector with a lot of money so spare.

I'm not understanding the market for something like this. I guess for rooms that aren't wide, but if it's not wide enough for a normal projector, won't the image be too big?
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post #11 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 11:47 AM
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It's the room depth which is often a limit on the size, not the width. And people often don't want to install a projector overhead (or can't, depending on landlord).

At this price this is definitely a niche item for well-heeled clients but the ultra-short throw solves some use cases which come up even on AVS, people are always asking about throw distances and many people have low ceilings, with projectors that don't have lens shift so there is a use case for floor installs. I'd personally prefer this if it were mounted on the ceiling close to the projection wall, instead of on the floor beneath it, but this thing looks HEAVY.
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post #12 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 01:41 PM
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When a solution like this drops to reasonable prices, say under $5K, it will be so tempting. I know it isn't likely, but an flush mounted, in-ceiling version would be even better, albeit much more invasive, because as it works now, it looks like this version would need to be placed exactly where the center channel speaker should go.

Ideally, I would love to have my wall-mounted TV and speakers stay where they are, and have both the screen and the projector be flush mounted into the ceiling. During the day, they would be nearly invisible. At night, the screen drops in front of the TV, and we're in business.

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post #13 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
one billion , gagillion, fafillion, shabolubalu million yillion : 1
But seriously, I am really interested in this as I love laser and can't imagine going back to bulbs and looking for a native 4K update and since the JVC Z1 turned out to be a a bit of a disappointment this looks like it might have potential.

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post #14 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 03:27 PM
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post #15 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
This is the first sony 4k projector with 18ghz (hdmi 2.0) finally !!! ?

Can someone please find out the NATIVE CONTRAST on this thing not the advertised 1:infinity bull-crap
It's not bull crap the "full black" feature is awesome I love it but it needs to have a decent native as well otherwise the transitions will not work well so yes we need to know those numbers but don't hold your breath until some actual reviews as just like Epson they only quote infinite officially.

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post #16 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 03:45 PM
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post #17 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post

Go big or go home Bandyka Your budget parameters must have grown, you are looking at some interesting new options .

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post #18 of 104 Old 01-06-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
It's not bull crap the "full black" feature is awesome I love it but it needs to have a decent native as well otherwise the transitions will not work well so yes we need to know those numbers but don't hold your breath until some actual reviews as just like Epson they only quote infinite officially.

I'm just happy to see developments moving forward. Laser light source 2500 lumens in that price range is exciting, will be interesting to see the other projectors that are sure to follow . If I could get 2500 lumens true 4K chips and FI at 4K my wish list would be complete . Actually I don't even care if it's a lamp, sorry Bandyka, I'm trying to make this affordable for all of us. Better motion handling is where we will get huge image improvement IMHO . Contrast color and sharpness are useless without better motion control. Movies120fpm will help that down the road. The 675 has more than adequate contrast as far as I'm concerned , other features will turn my head first.
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post #19 of 104 Old 01-07-2017, 10:41 AM
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Pretty nice (as is that ST screen). It's nice to have a projector you can just drop on a console by your wall instead of dealing with a ceiling mount and in wall cable routing... I assume one could put it on top of a center channel... At $25,000 though, only for the well heeled living room for now.
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post #20 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Go big or go home Bandyka Your budget parameters must have grown, you are looking at some interesting new options .
Well I always had some "bigger options" in mind I am just waiting for the right moment/product to come along trust me, once you go laser you ain't going tamer

...and yes improved motion and FI in 4K would be a huge magnet for me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
It's not bull crap the "full black" feature is awesome I love it but it needs to have a decent native as well otherwise the transitions will not work well so yes we need to know those numbers but don't hold your breath until some actual reviews as just like Epson they only quote infinite officially.
Of corse the infinite on/off contrast numbers are bullcrap as the usable contrast on a LZ10000 is far far away from infinite. But I agree 100% the full fade to black on a laser projector is impressive and looks very good. A couple friends of mine and me are working on a device that can be used on normal UHP projectors that will do the same fade to black as a laser machine.
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post #22 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 03:05 AM
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Get these 18" modules down in price ($500 a module) so a 130" diagonal will cost under $12-$15k and we can say goodbye to projectors.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...881985&thumb=1
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post #23 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 04:48 AM
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It's the pixel density close enough for home use now?

I worry about SDE.
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post #24 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 04:59 AM
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Get these 18" modules down in price ($500 a module) so a 130" diagonal will cost under $12-$15k and we can say goodbye to projectors.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...881985&thumb=1
Absolutely but even at $1000 a piece would be nice.
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post #25 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 07:43 AM
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I immediately think of the competition for this $25K, 100" projection system from flat panel TVs. Because I'm out of it when it comes to the sizes and prices of current flat panel TVs, how large a TV will $25K buy nowadays?
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post #26 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 03:35 PM
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I immediately think of the competition for this $25K, 100" projection system from flat panel TVs. Because I'm out of it when it comes to the sizes and prices of current flat panel TVs, how large a TV will $25K buy nowadays?
About 85 ish I guess.

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post #27 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 03:46 PM
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There are several 85" models under $10k which is currently the biggest size you will find readily available at your local big box. From there it goes to 100" where Sony has a $60k model and Samsung has one for $120k.
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from CE PRO
New HDMI 2.1 Specification Transmits 48Gbps to Handle 8K60Hz with HDR, 4K120Hz
HDMI Forum has unveiled the new backwards-compatible HDMI 2.1 specification that will transmit up to 48Gbps bandwidth to support not only
4K @ 60Hz with HDR,
plus 8K @60Hz and 4K @ 120Hz.

Jason Knott · January 4, 2017
It looks like HDMI has met the challenge. The HDMI Forum, Inc. announced the upcoming release of Version 2.1 of the HDMI Specification,which not only handles 4K resolution at a 60Hz refresh rate needed for High Dynamic Range (HDR), but goes well beyond that bandwidth need.

This latest HDMI Specification supports a range of Higher Video Resolutions and refresh rates including 8K60 and 4K120, Dynamic HDR, and increased bandwidth with a new 48G cable. Version 2.1 of the HDMI Specification is backward compatible with earlier versions of the specification, and was developed by the HDMI Forum’s Technical Working Group whose members represent some of the world’s leading manufacturers of consumer electronics, personal computers, mobile devices, cables and components.

“This new release of the specification offers a broad range of advanced features for enhancing the consumer entertainment experience, as well as providing robust solutions to the commercial A/V sector,” says Robert Blanchard of Sony Electronics, president of the HDMI Forum.

“This is part of the HDMI Forum’s continuing mission to develop specifications for the HDMI eco-system that meet the growing demand for compelling, high-performance and exciting features.”

Speaking exclusively with CE Pro, HDMI Forum Chairman Chris Pasqualino notes, "We have been working hard to get this 'bad boy' released. We have identified the five marquee features of the new spec."

Those are:

Higher Video Resolutions support a range of higher resolutions and faster refresh rates including 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz for immersive viewing and smooth fast-action detail.
Dynamic HDR ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast, and wider color gamuts—on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
48G cables enable up to 48Gbps bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support including 8K video with HDR. The cable is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI Specification and can be used with existing HDMI devices.
eARC supports the most advanced audio formats such as object-based audio, and enables advanced audio signal control capabilities including device auto-detect.
Game Mode VRR features variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing or eliminating lag, stutter, and frame tearing.
What HDMI 2.1 Means for Integrators
The new specification, which is formally being announced at CES 2017, will be available to all HDMI 2.0 Adopters and they will be notified when it is released early in Q2 2017.

“We have no clear understanding of when products will be out. Many of the HDMI Forum members have an early look at the spec so they may be working on products already,” says Pasqualino. “There will be a requirement for active cables after a certain length. I do not expect to see significant growth in the footprint of the cable. Connectors will be the same.”

A compliance test is being developed. It is underway now but it will take about months to write it, says Pasqualino. Prior to the release of the compliance test, it will be up to the individual companies themselves to test their equipment to the spec.

Rob Tobias, HDMI Licensing Administrator president, tells CE Pro that integrators can expect to see 8K prototypes from every TV manufacturer at CES 2017. He notes that there is not a strong push for 8K right now, except in Japan because that country wants to broadcast the 2020 Summer Olympics in Tokyo in 8K. Tobias says the main focus among manufacturers is 4K and dynamic HDR and the higher frame rates in 4K, but he says he expects to see a push for 5K coming from the PC manufacturers. 5K is an even higher monitor resolution suited for gaming.

For integrators and their clients, every piece of equipment in the ecosystem must be 2.1 for the customer to receive full 4K with HDR or 8K,a ccording to Pasqualino. "There is some margin in the system and the reliability will be good. There will be a short early adopter phase before we see a very quick ramp up to a stable ecosystem," he adds.

Tobias adds, "How an individual piece of equipment will meet the 2.1 standard will depend on the manufacturer and the features. Some manufacturers may be able to achieve 2.1 compliance with just a firmware upgrade; others will require new hardware," he says.

Does 48G Cable Even Exist?
So while the parameters are set for HDMI 2.1 to handle 48Gbps, are there cables that even exist that can handle that bandwidth?

According to Pasqualino, there are some HDMI Forum members who are currently running lab tests to validate that 48G speed.

"The compliance testing will check the speed when it is completed," he says.

The HDMI Forum currently has a membership of 83 companies, and is actively inviting more companies to apply for membership and help shape the future of HDMI technology. There is also a focus to encourage more companies to participate as the global presence of HDMI-enabled products and solutions continues to grow.

“It is strategically important to take an active role in the development and innovation of technology which is central to global consumer entertainment and impacts the overall user experience. It is very important for our customers to enjoy video services on their PC’s, mobile, and consumer electronics devices,” says Joseph Frank technical manager of video devices at Comcast Cable. “That’s why Comcast Cable joined, and I strongly encourage others to contact the HDMI Forum to find out about membership details.”
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post #29 of 104 Old 01-08-2017, 09:39 PM
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I was rather hoping for a replacement to the VW1100. But it's nice to see some progress in the UST field. Anyone know how the previous 4K UST compared to regular projectors (for example the VW1100) in terms of PQ? Any downside of UST projectors?


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post #30 of 104 Old 01-28-2017, 09:57 AM
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Will this projector work with "regular" screens (such as woven AT screens) in a dark room?
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