JVC RS500/600 owners not getting software updates abandoned by JVC - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 277Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
JVC RS500/600 owners not getting software updates abandoned by JVC

Within 6 months of purchase I find out JVC is replacing my RS600 projector just purchased with an updated version. No revision was expected for another year this was done end of the first year, a surprise to all.


Do you feel it is appropriate for JVC to do this and then deny the software advancements that it implemented in the new projector?


Sony certainly had issues with it's forerunners in this round , but when they updated their projectors the advancements were provided
to all owners of the previous models down the chain.


This process immediately has the effect of lowering the value of ones projector and then forces the customer if they want the updates
to buy the new version . This is not hardware, only software.


I think JVC has a obligation to provide this software and the dealers who sold them should take the lead and pressure JVC into releasing this firmware
only update for those customers affected.


My dealer has been notified about my concerns and is trying to make this happen. Speaking with JVC direct the answer was a definite NO . If we work
together I'm sure we can make this happen, just need to apply enough pressure and have enough people voice their displeasure .
Frank D, Bahn Yuki, Ted99 and 4 others like this.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra
roxiedog13 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 06:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 612
JVC RS500/600 owners not getting software updates abandoned by JVC

I do take issue with one item in regards to my RS600. While I would love updated features, I don't expect to get them. But when there is a feature that just flat out doesn't work properly, the manufacturer should be required to fix it.

I would argue that the gamma D provided by JVC for HDR content on the RS600 just flat out doesn't work properly. They should allow the new HDR gamma that was created for the RS620, which from everything I read works much better, available to RS600 owners.

I know other AVS'r have created custom gammas that work extremely well, but with those custom gammas you lose the ability to tweak the picture tone settings.

I don't consider a software update to fix an item that's basically broken, an upgrade. I consider that software update, a fix for a problem with the initial software.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by ccool96; 03-29-2017 at 06:23 PM.
ccool96 is offline  
post #3 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 06:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,561
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1378 Post(s)
Liked: 671
I'll trade you Low Latency for better CMD.
Bahn Yuki and roxiedog13 like this.
AMartin56 is online now  
 
post #4 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 06:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,323
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Within 6 months of purchase I find out JVC is replacing my RS600 projector just purchased with an updated version. No revision was expected for another year this was done end of the first year, a surprise to all.
Wow JVC is replacing your 6 month old projector for free?

...or did you intend to say the RS500/RS600 models were discontinued after a 1 year production run,
with a new models with new features and new product numbers that have been introduced?

Shocking

But doesn't that happen on a regular basis in the consumer electronics industry?
My 1 year old Yamaha AVR doesn't support Dolby Vision, should I be freaking out?
..guess not because technically it's actually considered a 2015 model

I don't consider myself an early adopter, usually wait until a product is heavily discounted before purchasing,
...which more often than not means its probably obsolete already and a new "bigger/better" unit is in production and ready for release soon.

My JVC X750 was purchased August 2016 for under $6k (CAD) with a spare ($650) freebie lamp.
...that was an $8000 MSRP unit in Canada when it was brand new in December 2015.

I'm not sure what the big deal is with the new RS520/RS620 models,
other than lower lag response for gamers...but I'm not sure that would be a simple firmware fix for older models.

To me that sounds like something hardware related, but it doesn't effect my enjoyment one bit.
Most people who bought JVC projectors did so for Home Theater Movie watching.

In my experience the only thing that is not obsolete within a year or two after purchase are speakers and subs.

IMHO, even the latest JVC's (and 4K Front Projectors in General) are a LONG way from perfecting HDR playback.
...and Gamma curves for Dolby Vision encoded 4K/UHD material will likely be the next obstacle to overcome.

I'm going to sit out the next two or three model upgrades before making any more changes,
I already spent close to $20K last year for 4K/UHD/HDR and 7.4.4 Atmos/DTS:X Audio upgrades.
...So I'm good for another 5 years...maybe more. (4K UHD SDR BT.2020 Looks Fantastic on my system)

BRB, going to the car dealer to complain my 1 y/o Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT 8
is now available with a Supercharged Hellcat engine and I want a free upgrade

Willie and Javs like this.

Last edited by PioManiac; 03-29-2017 at 06:47 PM.
PioManiac is offline  
post #5 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I do take issue with one item in regards to my RS600. While I would love updated features, I don't expect to get them. But when there is a feature that just flat out doesn't work properly, the manufacturer should be required to fix it.

I would argue that the gamma D provided by JVC for HDR content on the RS600 just flat out doesn't work properly. They should allow the new HDR gamma that was created for the RS620, which from everything I read works much better, available to RS600 owners.

I know other AVS'r have created custom gammas that work extremely well, but with those custom gammas you lose the ability to tweak the picture tone settings.

I don't consider a software update to fix an item that's basically broken, an upgrade. I consider that software update, a fix for a problem with the initial software.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This is exactly the feature I was referring to and thank you for your input . I felt this way all along but after seeing your thoughts on the very same issue
it inspired me to post. Sony is not perfect nor any other certainly, but the ease with which I plug and play on the Sony , especially with HDR is a delight.
It's one thing to have the surprise model half way through the cycle but to know the new model has this feature , and will not be offered to the previous owners is just wrong.

Sony had the fortitude and consideration to take care of their customers with this same scenario , why is this a problem for JVC ? It's just a firmware update, no hardware required as far as I know and have read. If hardware is required that is another issue but I don't believe so . I also don't have the time or patience to be implementing custom gamma curves . I bought the projector for entertainment and relaxation not for a hobby. Nothing wrong with having a passionate hobby
I just have to many others and only so much time.
Ted99, Nexgen76 and forsaken13 like this.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra
roxiedog13 is online now  
post #6 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 06:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,090
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2431 Post(s)
Liked: 2026
This thread is literally a joke.

Apply what is happening to all products ever released and this is not a new thing or surprising in the least.

I buy an Audi, and they bring out a 'refresh' 6 months later with new features, do I get my panties in a bunch? No.

This is the way of life.

JVC's have been on a 1 year cycle for a few years running now, not hard to see this coming.

Sony did this with the 320ES too. I owned one, they brought out the 365ES including HDR support and sliders etc, when they could have easily updated the old units via firmware, but no, this is how it works. JVC are not the first and last company to do this.
Craig Peer likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | OZTS Majestic 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Rotel RMB-1555B | DIY Javelin Audio TPL-150 L/C/R | DIY Faital MTM TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Dolby Atmos MKII Modules | DIY Quad 18" Subs 30cf Net
-
Shootout - JVC RS500 (X7000) & Sony 320ES | My Panasonic UB900 HDR and SDR Settings | My MadVR Settings
Javs is offline  
post #7 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,090
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2431 Post(s)
Liked: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
This is exactly the feature I was referring to and thank you for your input . I felt this way all along but after seeing your thoughts on the very same issue
it inspired me to post. Sony is not perfect nor any other certainly, but the ease with which I plug and play on the Sony , especially with HDR is a delight.
It's one thing to have the surprise model half way through the cycle but to know the new model has this feature , and will not be offered to the previous owners is just wrong.

Sony had the fortitude and consideration to take care of their customers with this same scenario , why is this a problem for JVC ? It's just a firmware update, no hardware required as far as I know and have read. If hardware is required that is another issue but I don't believe so . I also don't have the time or patience to be implementing custom gamma curves . I bought the projector for entertainment and relaxation not for a hobby. Nothing wrong with having a passionate hobby
I just have to many others and only so much time.
No they did not. Why did you not complain that your VW600ES didn't come out with an HDR software update since that's pretty much literally all the 665ES was? Man, way to pick and choose your gripes.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | OZTS Majestic 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Rotel RMB-1555B | DIY Javelin Audio TPL-150 L/C/R | DIY Faital MTM TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Dolby Atmos MKII Modules | DIY Quad 18" Subs 30cf Net
-
Shootout - JVC RS500 (X7000) & Sony 320ES | My Panasonic UB900 HDR and SDR Settings | My MadVR Settings
Javs is offline  
post #8 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,561
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1378 Post(s)
Liked: 671
I think it would be nice PR if they threw a bone to owners of the 400/500/600 and implemented the superior HDR defaults in the new models but it wouldn't shock me if they didnt.
Bahn Yuki, ccool96 and roxiedog13 like this.
AMartin56 is online now  
post #9 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Wow JVC is replacing your 6 month old projector for free?

...or did you intend to say the RS500/RS600 models were discontinued after a 1 year production run,
with a new models with new features and new product numbers that have been introduced?

Shocking

But doesn't that happen on a regular basis in the consumer electronics industry?
My 1 year old Yamaha AVR doesn't support Dolby Vision, should I be freaking out?
..guess not because technically it's actually considered a 2015 model

I don't consider myself an early adopter, usually wait until a product is heavily discounted before purchasing,
...which more often than not means its probably obsolete already and a new "bigger/better" unit is in production and ready for release soon.

My JVC X750 was purchased August 2016 for under $6k (CAD) with a spare ($650) freebie lamp.
...that was an $8000 MSRP unit in Canada when it was brand new in December 2015.

I'm not sure what the big deal is with the new RS520/RS620 models,
other than lower lag response for gamers...but I'm not sure that would be a simple firmware fix for older models.

To me that sounds like something hardware related, but it doesn't effect my enjoyment one bit.
Most people who bought JVC projectors did so for Home Theater Movie watching.

In my experience the only thing that is not obsolete within a year or two after purchase are speakers and subs.

IMHO, even the latest JVC's (and 4K Front Projectors in General) are a LONG way from perfecting HDR playback.
...and Gamma curves for Dolby Vision encoded 4K/UHD material will likely be the next obstacle to overcome.

I'm going to sit out the next two or three model upgrades before making any more changes,
I already spent close to $20K last year for 4K/UHD/HDR and 7.4.4 Atmos/DTS:X Audio upgrades.
...So I'm good for another 5 years...maybe more. (4K UHD SDR BT.2020 Looks Fantastic on my system)

BRB, going to the car dealer to complain my 1 y/o Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT 8
is now available with a Supercharged Hellcat engine and I want a free upgrade


I time all my purchases to avoid purchasing something I know will be replaced within the normal buying cycle . If I do buy late in the cycle I NEVER expect anything extra. If the product is out of warranty , if I wait until the end of model cycle year and buy low like you, sure then I don't care or expect anything.
This projector was purchased ( no not free) with the expectation that it would not be replaced at least until the following fall . This upgrade was a surprise to everyone, had I known it would not have been purchased in the first place . I prefer to be the early adopter and pay that higher price so that software changes occurring within the model cycle are provided . Like you said, you wait until the end of cycle and buy cheaper, I don't normally do that .


Buy hey, Sony was good enough to take care of their customers within this same kind of time frame and I'm sure all the customers who got it expected and deserved it .


Good luck with the turbo. My BMW X3 came with one, I certainly wouldn't expect one once off the lot let alone the next year .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra
roxiedog13 is online now  
post #10 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:18 PM
Toe
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,211
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1621 Post(s)
Liked: 1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
This is exactly the feature I was referring to and thank you for your input . I felt this way all along but after seeing your thoughts on the very same issue
it inspired me to post. Sony is not perfect nor any other certainly, but the ease with which I plug and play on the Sony , especially with HDR is a delight.
It's one thing to have the surprise model half way through the cycle but to know the new model has this feature , and will not be offered to the previous owners is just wrong.

Sony had the fortitude and consideration to take care of their customers with this same scenario , why is this a problem for JVC ? It's just a firmware update, no hardware required as far as I know and have read. If hardware is required that is another issue but I don't believe so . I also don't have the time or patience to be implementing custom gamma curves . I bought the projector for entertainment and relaxation not for a hobby. Nothing wrong with having a passionate hobby
I just have to many others and only so much time.
The low lag mode DID require a hardware update from what has been posted on the forum. In light of that, it's simply not possible to get this particular feature through a FW update.
Craig Peer likes this.
Toe is online now  
post #11 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I think it would be nice PR if they threw a bone to owners of the 400/500/600 and implemented the superior HDR defaults in the new models but it wouldn't shock me if they didnt.

Not only nice PR it is appropriate. JVC should be embarrassed not to provide it and I hope the customers remember this next purchase and also how much the dealer did or did not support them . Sony looks to be the better one on this issue, don't even think their customers had to ask. That's the way it's supposed to happen . Take notice JVC this is wrong.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra
roxiedog13 is online now  
post #12 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,990
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4439 Post(s)
Liked: 2225
I think I might take my car back to the dealer and demand to know why they would bring out a new model before I was ready to buy a new one again. How dare they...
kucharsk likes this.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #13 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 612
JVC RS500/600 owners not getting software updates abandoned by JVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post

I buy an Audi, and they bring out a 'refresh' 6 months later with new features, do I get my panties in a bunch? No.

Maybe you should by a Mercedes then. My S-coupe has already had one software update to add new features, and it's barely 6 months old.

And Tesla is even better than MB. I think they update all vehicles regardless of model year.

I love my RS600. It's not the first JVC unit I have owned. I have owned an RS1, and RS4810, the RS600, and now the RS4500. All those in addition to my 2 Sony 5000ES projectors, and a handful of DPI 3-chip DLP and LED units.

I don't ever expect for a year old projector to have new features added to match a new release. But I do expect software updates to tweak issues a projector may have.

I have had a couple software updates on my 5000ES projectors. And I'm currently waiting for one to address a couple issues with the RS4500.

I don't think it's to much to ask for JVC to offer a software update, to make the HDR usable on the RS600. That's not asking for new features. That's asking for a simple update to address an issue.

If JVC owners are too afraid to ask for simple updates, no wonder JVC doesn't feel the need to provide any. I have demanded software updates to deal with certain issues on other products as well. Be it a Lumagen Radiance Pro or a Roku Ultra.

It's not uncommon for manufacturers to release software updates to tweak their products.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
ccool96 is offline  
post #14 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,990
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4439 Post(s)
Liked: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Maybe you should by a Mercedes then. My S-coupe has already had one software update to add new features, and it's barely 6 months old.

And Tesla is even better than MB. I think they update all vehicles regardless of model year.

I love my RS600. It's not the first JVC unit I have owned. I have owned an RS1, and RS4810, the RS600, and now the RS4500. All those in addition to my 2 Sony 5000ES projectors, and a handful of DPI 3-chip DLP and LED units.

I don't ever expect for a year old projector to have new features added to match a new release. But I do expect software updates to tweak issues a projector may have.

I have had a couple software updates on my 5000ES projectors. And I'm currently waiting for one to address a couple issues with the RS4500.

I don't think it's to much to ask for JVC to offer a software update, to make the HDR usable. That's not asking for new features. That's asking for a simple update to address an issue.

If JVC owners are too afraid to ask for simple updates, no wonder JVC doesn't feel the need to provide any. I have demanded software updates to deal with certain issues on other products as well. Be it a Lumagen Radiance Pro or a Roku Ultra.

It's not uncommon for manufacturers to release software updates to tweak their products.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Have you tried any of the custom gamma curves yet? They really do raise the level of HDR performance in a big way on these last generation units.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #15 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,561
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1378 Post(s)
Liked: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Not only nice PR it is appropriate. JVC should be embarrassed not to provide it and I hope the customers remember this next purchase and also how much the dealer did or did not support them . Sony looks to be the better one on this issue, don't even think their customers had to ask. That's the way it's supposed to happen . Take notice JVC this is wrong.
Well my investment is lower so my perspective is different. If someone thought I was annoyed with JVC now I'd really be $&+! ing a brick if I'd bought their top of the line unit and had the issues I'm having.

If you bought their flagship they should throw you a bone. At entry level of understand if they didn't. Especially since being willing to pay for ' hand picked components' should buy you some good will.
Ted99 likes this.
AMartin56 is online now  
post #16 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:48 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,582
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3062 Post(s)
Liked: 3146
While JVC certainly could provide a better Gamma D, they did give us the JVC Autocal software for free which provided a path for the remarkable progress in custom HDR curves + HDFury and it looks excellent.

Sony and Epson do not have anything like this and this is more configurable than an HDR slider.

use the free tools you have in front of you to quickly solve the problem.
zombie10k is online now  
post #17 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
The low lag mode DID require a hardware update from what has been posted on the forum. In light of that, it's simply not possible to get this particular feature through a FW update.

That's fair enough....almost. Changes still happened within the model cycle year but I'd be pleased enough with the updates that are software only
at this point .


Appreciate your comments.
Toe and Ted99 like this.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra
roxiedog13 is online now  
post #18 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:00 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,582
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3062 Post(s)
Liked: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Changes still happened within the model cycle year but I'd be pleased enough with the updates that are software only
the changes are the default Gamma D settings. Have you loaded one of the custom HDR curves? how does it look vs Gamma D?
zombie10k is online now  
post #19 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,090
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2431 Post(s)
Liked: 2026
I am still not using the built in JVC gamma on my new X9500, I am using a curve created by the Arve tool.

While it would be worth saying OOTB the new JVC HDR Gamma completely and utterly works 100% first time, I have very slightly better results with the Arve tool, and since you yourself, Roxie, can do exactly the same thing with fairly minimal effort (We even have downloadable profiles for you to uplpad yourself using the tool), I am not sure what you are truly complaining about here. The new JVC's while the HDR gamma is much better than Gamma D still fall short of a real custom ST2084 Gamma curve.


As for the low latency mode, that required a completely new motherboard, so there is no point in complaining about this feature 'missing'.

See here for comparisons. You can see clearly the new HDR mode kills SDR WCG in every circumstance while at the same time looking very natural. I also include the new Arve curves (Which you can install RIGHT NOW Roxie) for a look too... There is barely any difference between those and the new JVC gamma except the roll off on the Arve curves is better. Pay particular attention to the explosions at the end.

Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread
Craig Peer and zombie10k like this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | OZTS Majestic 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Rotel RMB-1555B | DIY Javelin Audio TPL-150 L/C/R | DIY Faital MTM TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Dolby Atmos MKII Modules | DIY Quad 18" Subs 30cf Net
-
Shootout - JVC RS500 (X7000) & Sony 320ES | My Panasonic UB900 HDR and SDR Settings | My MadVR Settings
Javs is offline  
post #20 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
While JVC certainly could provide a better Gamma D, they did give us the JVC Autocal software for free which provided a path for the remarkable progress in custom HDR curves + HDFury and it looks excellent.

Sony and Epson do not have anything like this and this is more configurable than an HDR slider.

use the free tools you have in front of you to quickly solve the problem.

Funny enough I am running a JVC calibration now. For the third time tonight it shuts down at the 94% mark every time . I also have a copy of the Sony professional calibration that I can use with the VW675 for free. I used the Chromapure/autocal and Lumagen Pro to do a 729/12 point in less than an hour Monday night on the VW675. Outstanding results and the measurements going in I thought not too bad. JVC autocal made the colors pop a little more but did not have the effect the Deeper process had . Will do the chromapure/lumagen on the JVC next and compare the differences .


I'd prefer to have the updated software and not have to input custom gamma curves to be honest. I don't mind calibration but constant changes to settings is not my thing. If Sony can do this, it's not a stretch for JVC to follow suite, only a software update for heaven's sake .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra
roxiedog13 is online now  
post #21 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Have you tried any of the custom gamma curves yet? They really do raise the level of HDR performance in a big way on these last generation units.


I loaded two, but there were so many differ ones, I haven't had a chance to go back thru the others. But there is no doubt the custom ones are better than the Gamma D.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
ccool96 is offline  
post #22 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,582
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3062 Post(s)
Liked: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I don't mind calibration but constant changes to settings is not my thing..
There is no need for constant changes, the various efforts have evolved into a universal curve that can work with most setups.

javs does a great job at demonstrating the advancements made with the custom curves.

The Sony professional software does not allow for custom HDR curves which is a huge feature of the JVC autocal.
Dave Harper likes this.
zombie10k is online now  
post #23 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
While JVC certainly could provide a better Gamma D, they did give us the JVC Autocal software for free which provided a path for the remarkable progress in custom HDR curves + HDFury and it looks excellent.

Sony and Epson do not have anything like this and this is more configurable than an HDR slider.

use the free tools you have in front of you to quickly solve the problem.

I agree the custom curves make a huge difference, but with the new RS4500, the HDR settings are perfect out of the box.

While others have loaded custom curves into the Rs4500, seems everyone prefers the new default setting because you can still slightly tweak things with the picture tone controls.

Unfortunately, you lose these with the custom Gamma curves.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
ccool96 is offline  
post #24 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 612
@PioManiac - yes I have used SDR 2020. I was one of the first people to post about using that setup with the Fury in the 500/600 owners thread.

The main reason I have tried to switch away from SDR2020 is that not all sources allow for SDR2020. While it works great for UHD bluray, it doesn't work for most of the 4K HDR streaming options.

After my 5000ES got updated with the HDR slider, which helped dial in HDR much better on the Sony, I have tried to only use HDR on all devices moving forward.

But I agree that SDR2020 is still a great option for UHD Bluray.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
roxiedog13 likes this.
ccool96 is offline  
post #25 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,090
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2431 Post(s)
Liked: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I agree the custom curves make a huge difference, but with the new RS4500, the HDR settings are perfect out of the box.

While others have loaded custom curves into the Rs4500, seems everyone prefers the new default setting because you can still slightly tweak things with the picture tone controls.

Unfortunately, you lose these with the custom Gamma curves.
I have the very same out of the box gamma as you do with the RS4500, but I went with a proper curve because I can get the average in scene brightness I would usually have when clipping HDR to 1200 nits, but also keeping a proper HDR rolloff in the highlights up to 4000 nits, so literally nothing ever clips, but keeps a bright punchy image. The JVC gamma out of the box cannot do this and hard clips at whatever clipping point you choose rather than a nice subtle roll off which makes it a true once stop curve for all films.

Its subtle because the new JVC Gamma is so good, but the custom curves are a little better. Which actually renders the tweaking you would be doing with the JVC Gamma irrelevant, since the very reason you are tweaking, is actually subconsciously to get more brightness at average picture levels, and also to tweak the black floor, which the curves do for you at the time of creation. Then you leave all JVC sliders on zero and go about your day knowing your curve is correct.
ccool96 likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | OZTS Majestic 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Rotel RMB-1555B | DIY Javelin Audio TPL-150 L/C/R | DIY Faital MTM TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Dolby Atmos MKII Modules | DIY Quad 18" Subs 30cf Net
-
Shootout - JVC RS500 (X7000) & Sony 320ES | My Panasonic UB900 HDR and SDR Settings | My MadVR Settings
Javs is offline  
post #26 of 324 Old 03-29-2017, 08:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,090
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2431 Post(s)
Liked: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
@PioManiac - yes I have used SDR 2020. I was one of the first people to post about using that setup with the Fury in the 500/600 owners thread.

The main reason I have tried to switch away from SDR2020 is that not all sources allow for SDR2020. While it works great for UHD bluray, it doesn't work for most of the 4K HDR streaming options.

After my 5000ES got updated with the HDR slider, which helped dial in HDR much better on the Sony, I have tried to only use HDR on all devices moving forward.

But I agree that SDR2020 is still a great option for UHD Bluray.
I used to think the same, but the truth is, to get decent brightness in SDR WCG you need to clip for 1100/1300 nits and thats being conservative. If you clip for 4000nits to make sure you dont lose any actual information you end up with an image more on the dim side TBH.

See below. Pay particular attention to the last comparison. My current Arve 650 Curve is pretty similar to the 700 one. And it far outguns SDR with 1300 nit clipping.



SDR WCG 4000 Nits Vs HDR ST2084 4000 Nits

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/203264

SDR WCG 4000 Nits Vs HDR ARVE 700 Curve

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/203265

SDR WCG 1300 Nits Vs HDR ARVE 700 Curve

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/205056

I suppose I should also post that same shot from the SDR Bluray. Lifeless. (Not a shot from my JVC but a screengrab).


JVC X9500 (RS620) | OZTS Majestic 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Rotel RMB-1555B | DIY Javelin Audio TPL-150 L/C/R | DIY Faital MTM TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Dolby Atmos MKII Modules | DIY Quad 18" Subs 30cf Net
-
Shootout - JVC RS500 (X7000) & Sony 320ES | My Panasonic UB900 HDR and SDR Settings | My MadVR Settings
Javs is offline  
post #27 of 324 Old 03-30-2017, 02:02 AM
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,424
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1133 Post(s)
Liked: 724
This tread is simply just a JVC bashing tread and a glorifying Sony tread. This is as clear as day for me and should be to all others!

Sony did software upgrade the 665 to give it some better features and JVC has not on the RSx00 models that is a fact, but it is not common and Sony have not done this with any of its 4K models other than the 365/665. I payed 3000$ for the motherboard upgrade upgrading my VW1000 to a 1100 an boy I have never felt so cheated in my life and it was moey down the drain. What some in here seem to forget is that the RSx00 models from JVC was the first models supporting HDR and JVC software upgraded them during the first year to support rec2020 and st2084, it was not a very good implementation of the gamma curve, but they did provide it. There might be new hardware in the newer models preventing a software upgrade to the older models, but I dont know that. But I can say for sure what JVC have done so far with the RSx00 models is simply common practice in the consumer electronics world and Sony are no better than JVC on this matter either. If it is a good practice I agree can be debated.

My point is that it is a common way to do this and all manufacturers do it and it is very rear they do what Sony did with the 365/665 and I agree they should be applauded for it. But they did nothing to the other 4K models and they cheated their VW1000 customers with a totally worthless motherboard upgrade.

Edit: Corrected and added the 365 to the Sony updated models.

Last edited by Andreas21; 03-30-2017 at 02:44 AM.
Andreas21 is offline  
post #28 of 324 Old 03-30-2017, 02:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 4,020
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Well, Sony did add the HDR contrast slider to the 365ES too, not just the 665ES.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #29 of 324 Old 03-30-2017, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
There is no need for constant changes, the various efforts have evolved into a universal curve that can work with most setups.

javs does a great job at demonstrating the advancements made with the custom curves.

The Sony professional software does not allow for custom HDR curves which is a huge feature of the JVC autocal.
I have the Sony software and it was free, I didn't say I used it . JVC autocal does have the ability to apply custom curves and toy and tinker , play and experiment just as you say.
If it's not your thing, the HDR included would be appreciated.

I started this thread because JVC is withholding software that should have been provided to it's customers. Your point about the ability to make changes is not the reason I posted this
and I'm not alone ,

As @ccoo96 said , the included RS4500 HDR curves are great OOTB and only requires minimal adjustments to achieve great results. My guess is 95% of the general public is looking for this same
simplicity for operation. Nice that JVC has the ability to experiment as some enjoy this process and are passionate about it. Good for them but it's not the average guy who will either hire
a professional calibrator or not calibrate at all. The later is what I see most. For that large group of individuals , I'm sure they would appreciate the simple firmware to update just like Sony
did for all of their valued customers .

For those abandoned by JVC like this have a devalued projector and that is just wrong on many levels . Shame on JVC .
Ted99 likes this.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 675ESB & JVC X950RU/RS600 , Panamorph DC1 Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 132" diagonal curved 36FT radius, Anthem 1120 AVR , 7.2.4 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203
Lumagen Pro 4440 , Paradigm Monitor 11 fronts, Monitor 3 Center, Monitor V7 Rear, SA-ADP In-wall Surround, Niles DS-7 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: Klipsch RW-12 + SVS PC13-Ultra

Last edited by roxiedog13; 03-30-2017 at 03:37 AM.
roxiedog13 is online now  
post #30 of 324 Old 03-30-2017, 04:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 612
JVC RS500/600 owners not getting software updates abandoned by JVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
This tread is simply just a JVC bashing tread and a glorifying Sony tread. This is as clear as day for me and should be to all others!



Sony did software upgrade the 665 to give it some better features and JVC has not on the RSx00 models that is a fact, but it is not common and Sony have not done this with any of its 4K models other than the 365/665. I payed 3000$ for the motherboard upgrade upgrading my VW1000 to a 1100 an boy I have never felt so cheated in my life and it was moey down the drain. What some in here seem to forget is that the RSx00 models from JVC was the first models supporting HDR and JVC software upgraded them during the first year to support rec2020 and st2084, it was not a very good implementation of the gamma curve, but they did provide it. There might be new hardware in the newer models preventing a software upgrade to the older models, but I dont know that. But I can say for sure what JVC have done so far with the RSx00 models is simply common practice in the consumer electronics world and Sony are no better than JVC on this matter either. If it is a good practice I agree can be debated.



My point is that it is a common way to do this and all manufacturers do it and it is very rear they do what Sony did with the 365/665 and I agree they should be applauded for it. But they did nothing to the other 4K models and they cheated their VW1000 customers with a totally worthless motherboard upgrade.



Edit: Corrected and added the 365 to the Sony updated models.

Your first statement is total BS, and you know it. Tell me anywhere I have bashed JVC in this thread or anywhere else on AVS. You can't because it doesn't exist. If anyone should know about bashing a product, I would say you certainly would qualify as an expert as I see you have posted more than 90 times in the Sony SXRD bashing thread since October.

And considering you spend plenty of time bashing Sony projectors, even current units of which you don't own, it's seems totally hypocritical and biased to now have an issue with a thread that points out a fault or two with JVC.

If anything the JVC thread pointing out all the problems with CMD and how those issues have existed for years without JVC addressing them, which you quickly told everyone was unnecessary and the thread should be removed, only to be refuted over and over again, could be viewed and much more of a "bashing thread" than this thread.

I can say whatever I want about JVC or Sony or any other product I own. I own a RS4810, and RS600, and the new RS4500. In addition to 2 - Sony 5000ES projectors, a DPI Titan Reference, a DPI Highlite, and a DPI M-vision LED. I comment on the pros and cons of each. That's why my reputation for being unbiased speaks for itself.

And this notion you seem to push, that it's not common practice for manufacturers to provide product update or even upgrades is total BS too. Most Apple devices that are produced within the last 3 or 4 years can all be rolled up to their most current software.

I had an Epson LS1000 for a short time, and updated the firmware on it to deal with some issues. I have updated my 5000ES multiple times to not only address certain issues, but to also add new features.

I was able to update my DPI Titan Reference 3D to work with the Bluray 3D format, almost a year after the release of the projector, once the 3D bluray standard was finalized. Prior to that the only 3D source it was capable of was by using a computer.

Again I am not complaining that the RS600 didn't get all the new features of the RS620. My issues is that JVC leaves a unit like the RS600, in an un-finished state, by not fixing one of the major issues, which is HDR performance. The unit was touted as an HDR device compatible with HDR10 content, but without a custom Gamma, the unit does not function properly in that mode.

Does that make the RS600 a bad unit, not in the least, especially for SDR, but for HDR it certainly leaves much to be desired. And I don't buy for one second that fixing the HDR Gamma curve can't be done, because it requires some sort of hardware change, because that's just ludicrous.

And I have a feeling the only reason the JVC new flagship RS4500 is getting an update to address some of it more serious problems, is because the feedback has been such, that JVC couldn't ignore it.

I have never understood this mindset that someone has to defend their projector against any and all critique. And according to your logic, you should be thrilled with your $3000.00 Sony motherboard update. It was released to provide compatibility with their 4K server. You obviously found that update worthy of the money at the time. That board swap was offered long before UHD bluray standards were created. So based on your logic about JVC not having to fix the HDR Gamma, because the HDR10 standard wasn't finalized, you shouldn't have any problem with Sony 1100ES not fully supporting UHD bluray, considering the format wasn't even close to being finalized or released.

And the two situations are totally different anyways. The Sony 1100ES, was significantly older and would require many hardware changes to work with UHD HDR Bluray. The JVC needed nothing but a tweaked Gamma curve.

I just don't see how JVC owners, who would like to see the new RS620 HDR Gamma, also be made available to RS600 owners, can make you so upset.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by ccool96; 03-30-2017 at 04:45 AM.
ccool96 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off