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post #1 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony vw285es vs JVC x770

Hi guys,
I am torn between these two machines. They are in the similar price range, JVC is little bit cheaper. Obviously Sony is real 4k, but reviews says for normal viewing there is little difference..

Sony:
- True 4K
- Better motion handling?
- Less lag?
- Longer lamp life

JVC:
- Brighter?
- Deeper black/auto iris
- Better contrast?
- Lens memory
- Shorter throw distance
- 18GBps HDMI

Here is my situation:
- Light controlled media room
- 120 ~ 135 inch screen (Can only do 120 if I get sony)
- Viewing material will be mostly Netflix and 1080p bluerays, not planning getting lots of 4K disks soon.

My last projector is a sony hw55, am I expecting to see a big upgrade? Should I wait for the dust to settle?

Thanks for the input!

Btw, where can I find the demo in the Seattle area?

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post #2 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude321 View Post
Hi guys,
I am torn between these two machines. They are in the similar price range, JVC is little bit cheaper. Obviously Sony is real 4k, but reviews says for normal viewing there is little difference..

Sony:
- True 4K
- Better motion handling?
- Less lag?
- Longer lamp life

JVC:
- Brighter?
- Deeper black/auto iris
- Better contrast?
- Lens memory
- Shorter throw distance
- 18GBps HDMI

Here is my situation:
- Light controlled media room
- 120 ~ 135 inch screen (Can only do 120 if I get sony)
- Viewing material will be mostly Netflix and 1080p bluerays, not planning getting lots of 4K disks soon.

My last projector is a sony hw55, am I expecting to see a big upgrade? Should I wait for the dust to settle?

Thanks for the input!

Btw, where can I find the demo in the Seattle area?
The Sony due to optics and chipset doesn't necessarily get all 4K up on the screen. It will still have a distinct resolution advantage vs. the JVC. In my own observations the resolution differences tend to diminish when you get to a normal seating distance.

The Sony has a clear advantage in motion handling. However you can't use this on 4K material. The JVC allows this. On 1080p the motion on the Sony will be better. Just native 24p with no enhancement either is going to be fine, although some do prefer the Sony on native motion (I haven't been able to see much difference).

Picture wise I find the JVC throws a better overall image. The Sony 4K units I've seen have all had an iris and the JVC was still clearly better in black floor and contrast. The 285 without an iris would be very clearly outclassed in this respect. The JVC is brighter, but depending on screen size and preference this may not be a deal breaker. The Sony's feature a gamma enhancement (as does JVC) that would allow it to make HDR pleasant despite the lumen deficit. Still more lumens is never a bad thing.

Lag wise the Sony has had a report of 10ms lag, but that seems to be erroneous. It has been measured around 30-35ms with 1080 material, Sony states 55ms with 4K. The JVC is about 35ms for either content.

I use the lens memory on my JVC all the time with my 2.35:1 screen so the feature is indispensable for me. If you don't have a need for that, the lack of it would not be a deal breaker.

I've seen a 55ES and 50ES and both your choices would be a big upgrade. For me the contrast and black floor of the JVC are far more important than the resolution differences I see. I'm not a fan of motion enhancement, so that's not a buying concern for me, but if it is for you the Sony is clearly better on 1080 material. Some feel the native handling on the Sony (no enhancement) is a big enough plus, but all the Epson, JVC, Sony and Panasonics seem to handle 24p native about the same to me. If you sit very close to the screen (<2x screen height to seating ratio) the resolution may be a bigger factor and the Sony could get the nod here.

For me the JVC just has a richer picture due it's contrast and black floor. As I said above the the resolution advantage of the Sony dwindled at a normal seating position so it wasn't a purchase point for me. And I simply wouldn't consider the 285 with it's lack of iris or lens memory. And that's why I have an RS520. In my opinion the Sony 285 is a more of a competitor picture and feature wise to the RS440 regardless of where Sony prices it.

Both are great projectors. If you're buying a projector long term you may want to put the 385 in the mix. The price jump is significant, but the iris would make a big difference in the picture quality. And if you want to do a scope screen at some point the lens memory would be a must have.

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post #3 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude321 View Post
Hi guys,
I am torn between these two machines. They are in the similar price range, JVC is little bit cheaper. Obviously Sony is real 4k, but reviews says for normal viewing there is little difference..

Sony:
- True 4K
- Better motion handling?
- Less lag?
- Longer lamp life

JVC:
- Brighter?
- Deeper black/auto iris
- Better contrast?
- Lens memory
- Shorter throw distance
- 18GBps HDMI

Here is my situation:
- Light controlled media room
- 120 ~ 135 inch screen (Can only do 120 if I get sony)
- Viewing material will be mostly Netflix and 1080p bluerays, not planning getting lots of 4K disks soon.

My last projector is a sony hw55, am I expecting to see a big upgrade? Should I wait for the dust to settle?

Thanks for the input!

Btw, where can I find the demo in the Seattle area?
If you put your location in your profile under your name, you might find other forum members near you that could demo one for you ! Just a suggestion !

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post #4 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 12:48 PM
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I think people tend to get caught up in something being true 4K. I think at normal seating distances, other qualities tend to make a bigger difference than True 4K vs E-Shift. I think the most recent review of the 285ES calls this out clearly. If you see below, that the contrast and color difference can make a difference in perceived sharpness. I think the difference between the two you are thinking about comes down to all the other qualites that you list. (See review snipped at bottom)

Sony:
- True 4K
- Better motion handling?
- Less lag - Unless the 10ms number is true it sounds like the JVC is faster
- Longer lamp life - The newer JVCs have excellent life on the bulbs and people are not seeing a drastic drop in output, so not sure if we have a clear winner here.


JVC:
- Brighter? Yes, by hundreds of lumens
- Deeper black/auto iris Yep
- Better contrast?Yes
- Lens memoryIf needed, sure is a bonus
- Shorter throw distanceAgain, if needed, bonus.
- 18GBps HDMIIf I had a choice, I would choose 18 over 13.5, granted if you dont need full 18 GBps, then 13.5 would suffice.

"In this side by side, the VW285ES and the HT8050 can at times each look a bit sharper than the other, but the perceptual difference is not dependent on the resolution of the subject matter, but rather the contrast and color saturation of the subject matter. The VW285ES has a latent contrast advantage overall, so when viewing high contrast subject matter, the contrast of the VW285ES tends to make the image appear sharper independent of the native resolution of the chips. "
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post #5 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 01:23 PM
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I would vote for the rs540/x770. I'd also note the new jvc projector series has a hdr bright mode which can be used to around 20% more lumens in hdr mode.

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post #6 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 03:35 PM
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I would vote for the rs540/x770. I'd also note the new jvc projector series has a hdr bright mode which can be used to around 20% more lumens in hdr mode.
10% more like it.

My 9500 only loses 7% with filter in D65 calibrated mode.

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post #7 of 74 Old 10-05-2017, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow..looks like JVC is the winner!?

There wasn’t a very big gap in 4K performance between the previous e-shift model from JVC and the native 4K projectors I’ve reviewed from Sony. This year’s JVC models have nearly closed that gap, with only a tiny edge going to the native 4K projectors when they display the most difficult slow-moving video-based material. For film content, which features more motion, the gap is pretty much gone. With the DLA-X750R, fine object detail looked as good as or better than it did with the Sony VPL-HW665ES I recently reviewed, and the increased contrast performance of the JVC took it past the Sony for overall picture quality. The JVC definitely outperformed my expectations in this regard, especially when we’re talking about a projector that retails at around half the price.


soundandvision.com/content/jvc-procision-dla-x750r-3d-d-ila-projector-review-page-2#2vgX5MwZuLcwlPGA.99
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post #8 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

Lag wise the Sony has had a report of 10ms lag, but that seems to be erroneous. It has been measured around 30-35ms with 1080 material, Sony states 55ms with 4K. The JVC is about 35ms for either content.
I didnt see a report that jvc is about 35ms for 4k/60p content. Can you give me a link? Thank you and sorry for my english
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post #9 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post
I didnt see a report that jvc is about 35ms for 4k/60p content. Can you give me a link? Thank you and sorry for my english


I have a 9500 and with low lag mode on the mouse on my htpc responds pretty much instantly vs lagging for days with it off.

Its safe to say its under 40ms.

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post #10 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 03:54 AM
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I guess an RS440/X5900 would price-wise be a better comparison? Also the contrast Level would be very similar. Even P3 coverage should be similar as well, as both have no built in filter.
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post #11 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 04:45 AM
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I guess an RS440/X5900 would price-wise be a better comparison? Also the contrast Level would be very similar. Even P3 coverage should be similar as well, as both have no built in filter.
Not really, the 440 will be quite a bit less than the 285, and the 540 will be in the same ballpark, maybe slightly less. JVC doesn't have SURE pricing policy.
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post #12 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 05:31 AM
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I'm looking at the Sony 285 or Jvc 440/590 which one would you take. I'm keeping my Benq w1070 for TV watching and getting a 4k projector just for watching movies at night.

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post #13 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 06:35 AM
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I'm looking at the Sony 285 or Jvc 440/590 which one would you take. I'm keeping my Benq w1070 for TV watching and getting a 4k projector just for watching movies at night.
RS540 (preorder pricing) without a doubt. The RS540 is almost as bright in low lamp as the Sony is in high lamp, and almost 10x the contrast (depends on the config, and not counting the DI that the RS540 has that the 285 doesn't), plus WCG.
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post #14 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 06:40 AM
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I'm looking at the Sony 285 or Jvc 440/590 which one would you take. I'm keeping my Benq w1070 for TV watching and getting a 4k projector just for watching movies at night.


Definitely the 285. Though why not look at the 540? That's the one I went with


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post #15 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 07:20 AM
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I'm looking at the Sony 285 or Jvc 440/590 which one would you take. I'm keeping my Benq w1070 for TV watching and getting a 4k projector just for watching movies at night.
The Sony will have slightly more WCG support (think it's 95% and the RS440 is in the 80% range). The JVC is less expensive (~$1500 less I think), has lens memory and an iris. The JVC will have more lumens. Unless you sit very close the resolution advantage of the Sony won't be very apparent. For me being able to use the iris to control the black floor is big plus for the JVC. So is the price delta worth it for the resolution bump and better WCG support while losing lens memory and an iris? I'd love the chance to see the 285, but having seen a few RS4x0 units and extrapolating what I've seen from Sony I would say the RS4x0 is probably the better buy. Either unit is going to be a great projector but I think Sony removed to many features to justify what they are asking for the 285. I can't imagine going back to a projector that lacks a controllable iris.

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post #16 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 08:19 AM
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Choose either as either are both a great choice.

I choose the Sony 285 this year.
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post #17 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 08:50 AM
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Choose either as either are both a great choice.

I choose the Sony 285 this year.
I'm going for a 385es after a disappointing experience with a RS420 earlier this year.

If one looks entirely at the specs it's hard to argue against JVC but I simply prefer the image a Sony throws.

As always it's important to see each brand for yourself if you can.
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post #18 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 09:06 AM
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The Sony will have slightly more WCG support (think it's 95% and the RS440 is in the 80% range)..
sorry but everything I ever red about recent Sony and JVC projectors said they are pretty close regarding P3 coverage...around 90%

btw. the real differences can only be seen if you have source material with color saturaion above 80%, which is not that common...one example would be Planet Earth, as there are some greens which only JVC with P3 Filters can (almost, 98%) display in full saturation.
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JVC doesn't have SURE pricing policy.
As a consumer, I prefer to support companies that don't have such unfriendly pricing policies. It's not like sure supports better used pricing value. It just reduces the opportunity for consumers to shop more price competitive retailers.

Also, I'm still having trouble understanding the value proposition of the 285, 385, 675. The 885 is a different proposition, but the lower end option? That being said, I'm sure we can thank sony for helping jvc to lower the pricing of the eshift 5 projectors.
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post #20 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 09:31 AM
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sorry but everything I ever red about recent Sony and JVC projectors said they are pretty close regarding P3 coverage...around 90%

btw. the real differences can only be seen if you have source material with color saturaion above 80%, which is not that common...one example would be Planet Earth, as there are some greens which only JVC with P3 Filters can (almost, 98%) display in full saturation.
You would be correct on P3 if you are talking about the 5xx/600, the 4xx does not have the filter so its P3 coverage is lower.

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post #21 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 09:38 AM
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As a consumer, I prefer to support companies that don't have such unfriendly pricing policies. It's not like sure supports better used pricing value. It just reduces the opportunity for consumers to shop more price competitive retailers.
Yeah, I really don't get it, plenty of companies (JVC, Anthem, etc) do just find letting dealers provide discounts if they want.

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Also, I'm still having trouble understanding the value proposition of the 285, 385, 675. The 885 is a different proposition, but the lower end option? That being said, I'm sure we can thank sony for helping jvc to lower the pricing of the eshift 5 projectors.
The 285 I get, it's what the 367 should always have cost (well frankly it's still too expensive for what it is...). Same for the 385 (it's about what the 675 should have cost). What I don't get is the 675 at this point, or why the 885 is almost 50% more in the US than elsewhere.

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You would be correct on P3 if you are talking about the 5xx/600, the 4xx does not have the filter so its P3 coverage is lower.
The 5x0/6x0 hit about 98-99% of P3 with the filter. I'm pretty sure the Sony and JVCs without the filter are both <90%.
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You would be correct on P3 if you are talking about the 5xx/600, the 4xx does not have the filter so its P3 coverage is lower.
No that is what I meant, the 4xx (or 5/6xx if the filter is deactivated for more light output) will hit around 90%. 5/6xx will hit 98% with the filter active, but lose about 10+% lumen.
Actually the 420 was measure to have native 90-91%, which unfortunately drop to 86-88% if you activate color management for calibration purposes -.-

But still, I red about someone who complaint his 5xx was stuck on 92%, which is more then just slightly away from what was promised
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post #23 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 09:47 AM
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But still, I red about someone who complaint his 5xx was stuck on 92%, which is more then just slightly away from what was promised
Sounds defective. Plenty of reviews showing the 5x0/6x0 getting near 100%.
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Not really, the 440 will be quite a bit less than the 285, and the 540 will be in the same ballpark, maybe slightly less. JVC doesn't have SURE pricing policy.
The 440 and 285 can be had for very close to the same price if you shop around. The 540 /790 is significantly more vs the 285.
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post #26 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 10:00 AM
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The 440 and 285 can be had for very close to the same price if you shop around. The 540 /790 is significantly more vs the 285.
Interesting. A lot of folks in the Sony threads seem to be using Amazon which has the 285 a LOT more expensive than the RS440. Heck it's fair amount more than I paid for my RS520. But if you really can find it in the range of the RS4x0 then it's much more attractive option.

However I keep coming back to the lack of features. I've seen projectors with a small screen where the black floor could benefit from an iris. It could easily have had a much better picture if you could clamp it down and you would be able to maintain your desired brightness as the bulb aged. Of course I suppose not everyone will be bothered by that.


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post #27 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 10:17 AM
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Interesting. A lot of folks in the Sony threads seem to be using Amazon which has the 285 a LOT more expensive than the RS440. Heck it's fair amount more than I paid for my RS520. But if you really can find it in the range of the RS4x0 then it's much better option.

However I keep coming back to the lack of features. After seeing an Epson 5040 (great value) on a small screen, it was screaming for an iris. It could easily have had a much better picture if you could clamp it down and you would be able to maintain your desired brightness as the bulb aged. Of course I suppose not everyone will be bothered by that.
Both projectors are a good value and throw impressive images.

Many people don't care for the function of the iris and don't have need for the lens memory, so I think Sony made trade offs with the 285 that many people could live with.

I think to really decide between these two it is best to see them in real life. I made my decision to go with the Sony 385 after I went to a dealer showroom and saw the Sony 675 and the JVC 620 side by side. I had the dealer run through Satellite, Blu-ray, and UHD 4K material. Personally I liked the Sony image better in most cases. I just don't care for eshift. I don't know if it is psychological but I tend to see flicker with eshift imaging on. The Sony image just looks more natural, calmer, and more like a true cinema experience.

The JVC wins hands down with contrast but loses in resolution. The JVC probably has the better lens although I couldn't see anything wrong with the Sony lens in the content I watched. I definitely preferred Sony's upscaling and motion handling over the JVC.

However, everyone's experience will be different and everyone has different preferences. I don't think you would go wrong with either projector.
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post #28 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 10:26 AM
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Both projectors are a good value and throw impressive images.

Many people don't care for the function of the iris and don't have need for the lens memory, so I think Sony made trade offs with the 285 that many people could live with.
But didn't they remove the manual iris too, so the only way to control brightness is with the lamp mode? At ~950 Lumens in low lamp, I think a 285 would actually be too bright in my setup for SDR.
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post #29 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 10:32 AM
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But didn't they remove the manual iris too, so the only way to control brightness is with the lamp mode? At ~950 Lumens in low lamp, I think a 285 would actually be too bright in my setup for SDR.
Yeah, there is no iris at all. That is one reason I went with a 385.

The only way to control brightness on the 285 is with the lamp setting and the brightness control. So if low lamp is too bright then you will have to reduce the brightness with brightness control which may or may not provide you with the picture that you want at the right black level.
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post #30 of 74 Old 10-06-2017, 10:57 AM
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Yeah, there is no iris at all. That is one reason I went with a 385.

The only way to control brightness on the 285 is with the lamp setting and the brightness control. So if low lamp is too bright then you will have to reduce the brightness with brightness control which may or may not provide you with the picture that you want at the right black level.
But that reduces your contrast.
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