The OFFICIAL BenQ 8700+ thread. - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 953 Old 02-15-2005, 03:01 PM
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Guys, been reading this thread,
Excellent information - and excellent input from all involved.

I have an 8700+ question - hope this is the right thread to post it in.
I have an HD sat receiver connected to the DVI port.
I also want to connect an HTPC via VGA to 5-BNC component. The physical connection is no problem, the projo ships with the right cable. The problem is I see no output. The VGA cable tests good on another monitor.

The manual indicates the DVI port is for computer input - although it accepts the HD satelitte receiver. That being the case I need an alternative solution.
The problem may also be with signal synch.

Any ideas, suggestions?
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post #302 of 953 Old 02-15-2005, 03:52 PM
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I am doing what you are proposing, so it should work with the right settings (HTPC via VGA and 5-pin BNC). Here are some possible solutions, all of which assume the output on your HTPC is compatible with a supported BenQ resolution.

Go into the menu, select the "Display" option, select "PC & HDTV" and select "AUTO" which the manual says "adjusts the phase, frequency, and position automatically."

In the alternative, you can try to manually adjust these parameters using the "FREQ" and "PHASE" menus.

I've also found that it helps to have the HTPC on before turning on the BenQ.

Send me a PM if you need the supported resolutions for RBGHV.

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post #303 of 953 Old 02-15-2005, 04:51 PM
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I only had the mount for about a week... I purchased it with the projector so I just called up the retailer and they told Peerless I would be sending it back....

When I talked to Peerless Tech Support, they mentioned it was a "known issue" with some of the production. I think that is why they changed the design for the newer ones.

Next mount I buy will have to be able to adjust in all four dimensions if it wants my business!

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post #304 of 953 Old 02-15-2005, 05:06 PM
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Kevin thanks,

checked the setting, they were all fine,
rebooting the HTPC with the projo on did the trick.

I have a Radeon 9600 and am outputting the video (live or playback) on the second (DVI/VGA) port - works well.

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post #305 of 953 Old 02-15-2005, 05:27 PM
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gmale, make sure you are outputing 60hz. Also, be sure to use 1280x720 resolution if you can.

If you are using VGA, press the RGBHD button on the Benq's remote. Or, press PC for the DVI input. Make sure the Benq is in Anamorphic mode by pressing the ANA button.

Can you be more specific about what you are seeing in the Benq's on-screen display?
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post #306 of 953 Old 02-15-2005, 06:27 PM
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maxleung,

I was seeing nothing at all, just a white screen with the RGBHD button pressed.
The ATI Radeon 9600 was configured with a second monitor on the DVI port, set to 60Hz and locked in at 720p. The DVI port has a DVI/VGA converter.

I did some basis troubleshooting - checked the video card for output on another monitor - there was output.
Next I checked my VGA cable - at 50 feet it is a long cable but it worked in the past with a different projector.

I think the real trick was to power down & up the HTPC with the projo on.
That gave me video - first in an extended desktop configuration. I then switched the 9600 to Theatre mode (in which only video is output to the DVI port).
It has been working now for the past three hours.

I am using BeyondTV for live/replay video, with the NVidea decoder. I will also be testing Zoomplayer and WinDVD.

Next I'll go into the ATI control utility and play with contrast, colour and intensity.

thanks
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post #307 of 953 Old 02-16-2005, 08:43 PM
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Just got an 8700+ and tried the different settings that are listed here. BTW, thanks a lot.

My biggest question is about the sharpness level that was listed in both. One was at 0 and the other +1. However, at those settings (and through DVI) I am seeing a very thin line outlining the image. When I ran DVE for sharpness it seemed like the appropriate setting was -8. But then the image looked a bit soft. I know appropriate sharpness is in the eye of the beholder, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't having equipment problems.

Is this normal? Is anyone else seeing a thin line at those settings?

Thanks,
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post #308 of 953 Old 02-16-2005, 08:47 PM
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I didn't notice that Troy. Could be the source device? I usually have sharpness set to 0 using DVI input. What input is giving you the line?

gmale, I'm glad you seemed to have solved the problem! *fingers crossed*
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post #309 of 953 Old 02-16-2005, 08:52 PM
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maxleung,

Source is Denon 1910 going to an Iscan HD+. All DVI. Denon is doing the deinterlacing and the Iscan is scaling to 720p.

Thanks.
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post #310 of 953 Old 02-17-2005, 02:33 PM
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maxleung, Kevin

follow-on question on resolution re: HTPC/8700/5-BNC.
Been paying around with maximixing the resolution out to the 8700 and so far I am stuck at 1280x1024. I know the 8700 can do 1080i so what gives? Is it the case the PC outputs progressive so 720 would be max?

I am working with a ATI Radeon 9600. Anyone else with a 9600 have any words of wisdom for maximizing video quality?
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post #311 of 953 Old 02-17-2005, 02:47 PM
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The native resolution of the BenQ is 720p, so you will do better at that resolution because, under optimal circumstances, it will result in one-to-one pixel mapping.

If you output 1080i, the BenQ will simply convert it to 720p, resulting in artifacts.

I've verified this with the Accupel signal generator using the multi-burst pattern at 720p and 1080i. At 1080i, the one-pixel width lines are slightly smeared. It really is a case of being unable to put a round peg (1080i) into a square hole (the BenQ's native 720p).

That being said, you should be able to send 1080i to the BenQ via 5-BNC.

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post #312 of 953 Old 02-17-2005, 04:12 PM
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thanks Kevin,

I just finished a PowerStrip test - and although I am new to PS - I encountered the same problem at 1080, 60Hz - the projo did not recognize the signal. Stepped it down to 1024 and I have image. So I will step it down to 720 and go with that.

Separate problem: I noticed my left edge is about an inch longer then the right. Keystone does not help here. Took a look at the service menu and did not see anything that would help - any ideas?
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post #313 of 953 Old 02-17-2005, 04:13 PM
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...right, yes, I'd prefer not to have to move the mount - it's on the ceiling and it will be a pain to move it.
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post #314 of 953 Old 02-17-2005, 07:24 PM
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Still looking for a little help on the sharpness of the 8700. Would like to hear from more of you.

Thanks,
Troy
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post #315 of 953 Old 02-17-2005, 09:26 PM
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Could it be that the iScan is doing too much sharpening? I really don't have any experience with your combination of player and iScan.

gmale, the benq cannot accept 1080i at 60 hz. Only 30 hz, 29.97 hz, and 25 hz.

According to the service manual, the timings should be close to (but doesn't have to be exact):

Index Format Name Line Rate(kHz) Pixel Rate(MHz) Frame Line(HZ) Line Active Line Total Frame Active Frame Total H Back Porch H Sync Width V Back Porch V Sync Width
6 1080i25 28.125 74.25 25 1920 2640 1080 1125 148 44 15 5
7 1080i29 33.716 74.176 29.97 1920 2200 1080 1125 1 92 44 15 5
8 1080i30 33.75 74.25 30 1920 2200 1080 1125 192 4 4 15 5
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post #316 of 953 Old 02-18-2005, 05:11 AM
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Excellent, thanks maxleung,
that explains why I was not seeing anythgin at 1080/60Hz!
I've decided I'll stick primarily with 720p, the machine's native resolution

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post #317 of 953 Old 02-18-2005, 06:34 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by SEARCH1990
I've got the peerless (sp?) and can't get it to stay put once i adjust the ball. Anyone have a chief or similiar?

The BenQ 8700 is quite a large heavy piece and the weight is not evenly distributed from side to side or front to back.. The standard mounts made have some great difficulty handling this with ease.

I have about 45 of my mount design left for this chassis and that is going to be it unless the the 8720 shares the same chassis...

The mount can be wall or ceiling mounted .... The plates are all precision cnc laser ... the mechanical arms are solid 5/8 solid nc steel that is cnc machined.

Here is a pic of the wallmount config... as you can see from the pic it is fully adjustable on any axis..

The ceiling mount comes in three alternative drop distances.. or can be made to any specific drop distance if you have unusual ceiling heights..


Robert
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post #318 of 953 Old 02-18-2005, 06:44 AM
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Here is a few other pics of the mount... The finish is a black satin powder coat finish..

This is a pic showing the precision of the cnc laser cutting... on the projector plate... the plate itself is a very solid 12 ga crs steel.

Robert
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post #319 of 953 Old 02-18-2005, 06:44 AM
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Here is a link to an interesting DIY design http://www.xs4all.nl/~etmriwi/ht/benq_pe8700.htm

With a little imagination, the wood could be covered with something attractive and acceptable to a significant other.

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post #320 of 953 Old 02-18-2005, 06:46 AM
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Here is another pic.. Alan from AVS was gracious enough to offer these to AVS members BTW..

Robert
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post #321 of 953 Old 02-18-2005, 06:53 AM
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Here is another pic..
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post #322 of 953 Old 02-19-2005, 06:51 AM
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Hello,

Newbie considering his first front projector purchase.

Have you guys read the posts regarding panning artifacts on the H77 thread? Examples of scenes where these artifacts show are Gandalf lighting his staff in the mines of Moria or in Spiderman 2 where P. Clark is dragging his beat up scooter and the face of MJ breaks up in the posters that are on the wall.

It would be great if an owner of the Benq that has seen these artifacts on the H77 could chime in. I read a couple of reports of people that sent back their H77's after finding them unacceptable. Seeing this in person is hard as I have called all the local AV shops and none stock front projectors anymore (except for Runco).

Thanks.
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post #323 of 953 Old 02-19-2005, 09:33 PM
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Robert...........

I cannot tell from the pictures... with your mount is it possible to hold the projector secure in two axis while you adjust the third? (roll, pitch, or yaw)?

Thanks,

Steve

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post #324 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 06:49 AM
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Artifacts can come from the DVD player, an out board scaler, or the projector's internal processor. Therefore, it is hard to say if the problem originates from the projector or elsewhere.

I have not seen the artifacts you mention in the two movie scenes, but then again I use a Bravo D1 DVD player, which, in spite of all its idiosyncrasies, does an excellent job scaling 480p to 720p.

When I first got the BenQ, I did use its internal scaler via s-video, and found it to be very good.

Yesterday, I was playing around with the BenQ's HD component inputs (the 3 BNC connectors) using the Accupel signal generator and was surprised to find, at least on my projector, that when displaying the multi-burst pattern (used to test resolution), the BenQ did a better job with a 480p signal than a 720p. This is counter intuitive because the BenQ's native resolution is 720p and it should look the best. I should note that with DVI at 720p, there is exact 1x1 pixel mapping.

The point is that if you are using the HD component input, put up a multi-burst or other resolution pattern and see if it looks better using a 480p or 720p signal.

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post #325 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 09:19 AM
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Can one of the HTPC users running DVI at 720p post the EDID that your PC received from the PE8700? You can find it in the registry at something like:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\ControlSet001\\Enum\\DISPLAY\\
BNQ2701\\5&35b74bbc&0&00000210&01&00\\Device Parameters]

If you export it and select the output as a text file, then you'll be able to copy and paste it.

The EDID is the packet of information passed from the projector back to the source device (DVD player, HTPC, etc) which describes all of the supported display modes of the projector.

I am looking at some strangeness with my DVD player, and I think it has to do with the EDID that the projector passes back to the source. Currently, when I get the information from my computer that does not support 1280x720, the EDID has some bad information defining the supported display timings.
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post #326 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 09:34 AM
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joatmon, here is my EDID entry in the registry:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\ControlSet001\\Enum\\DISPLAY\\BN Q2701\\5&85c692&0&11335587&02&00\\Device Parameters]
"EDID"=hex:00,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,00,09,d1,01,27,26,00,00,00,19,0e,0 1,03,80,00,\\
00,78,ea,05,a0,a8,57,4e,93,24,70,50,54,ff,f6,00,81,c0,61,59, 45,59,31,59,d1,\\
c0,01,01,01,01,01,01,64,19,00,40,41,00,26,30,18,88,36,00,00, 00,00,00,00,1e,\\
8c,0a,d0,90,20,40,31,20,0c,40,55,00,00,00,00,00,00,18,00,00, 00,fe,00,42,65,\\
6e,51,0a,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,fc,00,50,45,38,37, 30,30,0a,20,20,\\
20,20,20,20,00,25,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,\\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,\\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,\\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,\\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,\\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
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post #327 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 10:18 AM
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I do not get an EDID at all...and I am connected to the PE7800+ via the DVI port (with VGA adapter) of an ATI 9600.

Question 1: is this because I am connected via VGA adapter/cable and then via the 5-BNC cable?
Question 2: Can anyone confirm the video quality via DVI (DVI cable direct) is significantly BETTER than DVI/VGA (DVI/VGA adapter)?

gmale
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post #328 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 11:57 AM
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DVI direct is digital. DVI through VGA adapter is just analog RGB. DVI digital is not alway better (it depends on the display device), but in the case of the BenQ, with a good 720p signal, you can achieve 1x1 pixel mapping. With analog, it is difficult to get a 100% mapping of each pixel, which results in moire and digital noise.

I believe you can achieve 1x1 pixel mapping with an analog signal, but you need to be both very lucky and skilled.

There has been a lot of discussion about whether digital DVI looks better than analog component. There are many reasons for this, but a good rule of thumb is use a digital connection on a digital display device (DLP, LCD, Plasma, etc), and use an analog connection for analog displays (CRT).

Whether the difference is significant to you can be determined by looking at a multiburst pattern and looking for artifacts in the high frequency lines (see attached file for example of multi-burst pattern).

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post #329 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 12:13 PM
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gmale, if I use BNC my Benq 8700+ doesn't get recognized by windows either. I have the same issue using BNC to my 19 inch CRT monitor. Unfortunately, I cannot figure out how to hook up the VGA output on my videocard to the DVI input on my Benq. It would be nice to use the DVI-A portion of the projector with a VGA card, and retain the monitor plug-and-play abilities.
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post #330 of 953 Old 02-20-2005, 12:25 PM
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maxleung,

my unit came with a VGA/DVI-I cable...so I would use that cable to make the connection.
If you do not have this cable you can alternatively buy a VGA/DVI adapter (~$25) and that will pass through the analog RBG signal - but then you'll loose plug-and-play.
In my case I also had to use powerstrip to tune vertical synch to 61.5Hz (going from memory - this is precise to 1 decimal) to eliminate "shake" effect.

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