Optoma H79 review & screenshots - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah these are all with DVI player set to 720p.

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post #632 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 08:21 AM
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Tom, I need to know the colorspace you're using in ColorFacts--the triangle in your charts above.

NTSC, HD, SMPTE-C, etc. all have different primary/secondary coordinates on the CIE chart. In order for us to make a meaningful comparison, we should all be using the same colorspace in our measurements.

I'd be surprised if ColorFacts didn't let you choose a colorspace, but if it doesn't we need to know what colorspace the software is using.
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post #633 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 08:42 AM
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Quote:


I think it already influenced Frank to buy the nice but dimmer projector

Guitarman,

I have been told that the Sim2E is brighter than the Optoma H79 when both are calibrated to D65. Even when the H79 is in high-lamp mode.

(Using Scott's lumens numbers)

Frank
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post #634 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by thirdkind
Tom, I need to know the colorspace you're using in ColorFacts--the triangle in your charts above.

NTSC, HD, SMPTE-C, etc. all have different primary/secondary coordinates on the CIE chart. In order for us to make a meaningful comparison, we should all be using the same colorspace in our measurements.

I'd be surprised if ColorFacts didn't let you choose a colorspace, but if it doesn't we need to know what colorspace the software is using.

Sri for the delay I had to rerun the CIE test, colorspace options show up at the end of the test. All the charts I've posted are HDTV.

Here's the latest one with an early RGB calibration.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79ciehdtv.jpg

Frank,
I hope it's as bright. Just from past experience the Selecos were on the dim side. I know Alan is using a Silverstar with his. What is the bulb type and wattage for the 300e?

About our cheapo light meters, read wm's post above.

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post #635 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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"I put my H79 up for sale, but now that the colors are almost in order, I might be able to tolerate some slightly oversaturated reds in exchange for everything else the projector offers."

thirdkind
better yank that for sale sign, you'll be sorry.
Keep working with the Opti-1

Glad you liked the HDTV image. I just watched Deadwood this morning, very good black and color cinematography.

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post #636 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 09:24 AM
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Scott,

It could be that the probe went out of calibration in shipping, but that would mean it doesn't hold its calibration very well. As I said, they are looking into it.

I have not checked the readings on the OpticOne I have yet, so nothing to report there.

Let's wait and see what Extech comes up with. There are lots of things that can go wrong with calibrating a device like this - a small change in the setup of the test equipment can make a significant difference that the operator often does not understand.

I've asked them to provide me with the service documentation for the meter. One solution for me might be to simply recalibrate using my reference Lightspex.

William

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post #637 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 09:36 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by wm I have not checked the readings on the OpticOne I have yet, so nothing to report there.

Very interested to see what you find when you can.
Quote:


Let's wait and see what Extech comes up with. There are lots of things that can go wrong with calibrating a device like this - a small change in the setup of the test equipment can make a significant difference that the operator often does not understand.

I understand. I'm returning my original meter. I was gonna order a NIST certified one. I would like to wait for your resolution. Do you have a feel for the timeframe to resolve?
Quote:


I've asked them to provide me with the service documentation for the meter. One solution for me might be to simply recalibrate using my reference Lightspex.

Lightspex not an option for me. Which model meter are you using or planning to use from them? Thanks, Scott
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post #638 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 09:41 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by scotthorton
Which model meter are you using or planning to use from them? Thanks, Scott

From Extech? I bought a 403125. The Lightspex is a Gretag unit, spectroradiometer, worth about $10k. Calibrated twice a year, at about $800 a trip.

To be polite, should we start a separate thread for this?

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post #639 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by wm
To be polite, should we start a separate thread for this?
William

You are right of course. I just set it up here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...51#post5306451

Thanks,
Scott
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post #640 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 10:43 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thirdkind
I can't slam Optoma for this though because many displays do the same thing. It just means colors for DVDs upconverted to 720p or 1080i aren't quite right, unless the studio creates the DVD master from an HD master and doesn't adjust the colorspace properly (which some do).

I also think an SD or HD selection would be nice, but I believe some DVD players (like the Momitsu V880) do convert the colorspace to HD along with upconverting.

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post #641 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 10:58 AM
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I watched Alias last night and noticed that reds looked pretty hot on my H79 too, but they didn't look oversaturated on other HDTV shows, nor on 5th Element or Enemy at the Gates. Skin tones on those dvd's looked natural. The dead littering Stalingrad looked pasty just like they should. But the black sweaters and other blacks objects on Alias looked so super black on my HCCV screen, they just edge out the HT1000's black levels which were outstanding!!

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post #642 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 12:20 PM
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guitarman

Optoma sure likes to pop the gamma at 80IRE and blow out 100IRE - what is up with that? I like to see things tracking all the way otherwise highlites look wierd. Is there service menu gamma adjustments for this?
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post #643 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 12:24 PM
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scotthorton

If you see red faces - that is not an oversaturated red primary. It is red push in the video decoder to compensate for blue greyscale. Should go away with DVI.
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post #644 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 12:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by krasmuzik
scotthorton

If you see red faces - that is not an oversaturated red primary. It is red push in the video decoder to compensate for blue greyscale. Should go away with DVI.

What about red cars that almost glow? What woudl oversaturated reds look like?
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post #645 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 12:26 PM
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There are a ton of gamma tables in the service menu, but I haven't had the time to explore and measure each and every one.

The hump at 80 IRE is annoying. If there's a "flat" curve in the service menu list, I'd love to know what it is.
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post #646 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 12:28 PM
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kras,

I'm using DVI and the red primary is outside the triangle on NTSC, HD, and SMPTE-C colorspaces.
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post #647 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 12:30 PM
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scotthorton

red cars that glow could be oversaturated red primary - or red clipping (as often seen in toms RGB tracking at 100IRE)

Depends if you have red detail or not which one it is. I would describe the SP7205 red as a dark neon - after 10% lamp it became more of a brick red.
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post #648 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by thirdkind
kras,

I'm using DVI and the red primary is outside the triangle on NTSC, HD, and SMPTE-C colorspaces.


Did you talk to Cliff about that? How about the CIE chart I posted this morning? It was with the one-eye. Red was the color that was dead on.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79ciehdtv.jpg

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post #649 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 01:23 PM
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I did contact Cliff. Haven't heard back from him yet.
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post #650 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 10:29 PM
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guitarman,

Since we do not know how either of these individuals have actually calibrated their displays we can not assume anything as to the accuracy of the calibrations. We do not know any of the settings which were selected by the users in the calibration which may be influencing the final measurements of the calibration. We do not know if the values which are being displayed in the CIE graph are in fact incorrect according to your statement as we have no basis for comparison against a reference analyzer.

"The biggest mystery is why two members CIE readings are off using the Opti-one. You really should talk to Cliff about it. Colorfacts has been around for a while now and I don't think there's been concerns on how accurate it can do a CIE chart." Unless a user has access to a more accurate reference instrument such as a PhotoResearch PR-650, Gretag MacBeth LightSpex, Minolta CS-1000 or other quality spectroadiometer they would have no way of knowing how accurate or inaccurate the data they were looking at really was. Do you know for certain how accurate your instruments are guitarman ?

I can appreciate your enthusiasm for reporting all of the information which you collect to other forum members as some if it may be considered valuable to some readers. I do feel that misleading people due to your lack of knowledge or a complete set of facts related to your comments are in poor taste.

I can state that the probe which we provide is certainly as accurate as the Colorfacts device in every respect without getting into a discussion on who's analyzer is better. I do not wish to get into a long discussion as to the differences in each of our products. Anyone that is interested in learning the facts on either product is more then welcome to contact the respective manufacturers for additonal information.
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post #651 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 10:49 PM
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On another discussion:

I'm looking to match a new dvd player to my H79 and have a quick question. I'm interested in, foremost, the best video quality & would prefer a cd playback machine that is of high quality as well. I will go separate if I must but would prefer a multi-player. I do want a quality piece, not interested in a real cheesy $100 dvd player that only works half the time.

I am plenty aware of the emerging technologies of the HD-DVD but I know from past experience that it will be at least 2 years until there is an agreed apon technology, an abundance of new release software & hardware prices down to at least current mid-level DVD prices. So I want my good dvd now to enjoy with my new H79 the next few years.

My thought is to buy a Denon 3910 tomorrow unless those in the know think this is overkill or achievable in a better way for my needs. Please give me some feedback and clue me in to what you are using & happy with.

Cheers,
-Dave
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post #652 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 11:03 PM
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Can't help you Dave as I'm using a vintage RP56 with SDI. Man O man, watched Dark City for the first time tonite - what a bizarre movie. It looked pretty darned good on the H79. Thank goodness for high contrast with that movie!

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post #653 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 11:21 PM
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Just wanted to suggest that people try DegammaTable04 in the H79 service menu. No more hump at 80 IRE and the projector measures D65 plus or minus about 150K from 20 to 100 IRE. Not as ruler flat as the Sharp 12K, but not too shabby.

Kras, to address something you mentioned earlier, the only way I can clip above white is to push green and blue. With 100 IRE at D65, red is the limiting color and the above white bar in Avia PRO is still visible. Only by pushing green and blue and ruining D65 can I clip above white.

Cliff, I'm at a loss as to why red is oversaturated according to our measurements with Progressive Labs/OpticONE. I've achieved a fairly flat greyscale at D65, with green, blue, cyan, and yellow pretty much lined up with their proper coordinates. Red and magenta are outside the triangle, with magenta pushed a bit towards blue.
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post #654 of 2404 Old 03-10-2005, 11:23 PM
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Yeah Craig, I'm on vintage DVD players as well. Just as I got into front projectors (Nov) my trusty old used-to-be-high-end Sony bit the dust & I've been stuck with a 4 year old Panasonic DVD recorder via 480i component as my main source right now. I had a 2910 at the house for a short time & liked what I saw but that was with my starter projector (IF 4805) and that looked good with any 480i player I threw at it. Of course, now I'm dying to feed it a progressive DVI or component connection.
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post #655 of 2404 Old 03-11-2005, 12:32 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by sotagear
My thought is to buy a Denon 3910 tomorrow unless those in the know think this is overkill or achievable in a better way for my needs. Please give me some feedback and clue me in to what you are using & happy with.

How about an iScan HD+ with SDI modded player? Somebody reported that 48Hz mode worked.

Craig,

Have you tried 1280x720@48Hz? Basically, setting the framerate in the output setup for the iScan HD+ to lock at 48Hz after selecting 1280x720@60Hz for the output resolution above. At one point I thought 48Hz worked on my 11k, but I can't get it to work now.
Quote:


Originally posted by thirdkind
Kras, to address something you mentioned earlier, the only way I can clip above white is to push green and blue.

Are you trying to clip things above reference white (235)? If so, I hope you don't use a screen that is over 1.0 gain, since that is a whiter than white screen.

--Darin

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post #656 of 2404 Old 03-11-2005, 05:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by sotagear
On another discussion:

I'm looking to match a new dvd player to my H79 and have a quick question. I'm interested in, foremost, the best video quality & would prefer a cd playback machine that is of high quality as well. I will go separate if I must but would prefer a multi-player. I do want a quality piece, not interested in a real cheesy $100 dvd player that only works half the time.

I am plenty aware of the emerging technologies of the HD-DVD but I know from past experience that it will be at least 2 years until there is an agreed apon technology, an abundance of new release software & hardware prices down to at least current mid-level DVD prices. So I want my good dvd now to enjoy with my new H79 the next few years.

My thought is to buy a Denon 3910 tomorrow unless those in the know think this is overkill or achievable in a better way for my needs. Please give me some feedback and clue me in to what you are using & happy with.

Cheers,
-Dave

I have the 3910 to a H77 combo and love it . 3910 also has top notch
2 channel audio performance.
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post #657 of 2404 Old 03-11-2005, 05:43 AM
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sotagear:

I have the 3910 and overall I'm happy with it. I considered downgrading becasue it has way more than I need. I just wanted an upscaling DVD player that had DVI. I tried the Bravo D2 and while the picture was fine with it, it had some little ergononic bugs that I couldn't stand. One note of caution. I've been following the huge 3910 owners thread for some time. It appears that pretty much anyone who got a machine with a build date of sometime in Aug forward has a machine that won't pass blacker than black. Some Aug builds do, mine does. Some are reporting a green push on component, but I haven't seen it, but I haven't looked for it either. There's a Panasonic some seem to like I think it was a 59avi or something like that, dont' know squat about it (obviously).

HTH,
Scott
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post #658 of 2404 Old 03-11-2005, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Cliff,
One thing to say is CIE is a simple test and I ran the test with two different color meters and both read a similar way, display checked calibrated and not calibrated they didn't alter too much.

Scott and thirdkind didn't post up a view of the CIE so we could compare, but my main concern is thirkind was ready to sell his 12hr old projector do to the reading he was getting. I would feel a little responsible being the enthusiastic one that made him give it a shot. Before he does that I'd hope all possible errors could be checked or worked out.

thirdkind, could u post a CIE picture so I could see how different they are? Just thought of something didn't a member here Drapp have an ISF tune his 79 with optic-one and get a similar CIE as I got? Maybe we should ask him what he did different.

thirdkind, don't sell your projector just yet.

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post #659 of 2404 Old 03-11-2005, 08:16 AM
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Tom, that's right. Kevin Anderson used the OpticOne with Accupel as signal generator and the gamut was very similar to yours. He defaults to the HD triangle with the Accupel. Unfortunately, he didn't save that gamut but we're looking into redoing the calibration before too long. Not knowing all the settings Kevin was using versus others here I can't say what he may have done different.

Dan
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post #660 of 2404 Old 03-11-2005, 08:17 AM
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Tom, don't trouble yourself. I'm a big boy, and I made the purchase. You shouldn't feel any guilt if I decide the H79 isn't for me.

What I really need is an Accupel. One thing I'm always nervous about is the output of my HTPC. There are so many things to configure on an HTPC that it would be very easy to mess something up. It could be a driver issue, or the colorspace conversion performed by my video card could be less than stellar.

Scott's results with a 480p DVD player connected via component lead me to believe that my HTPC is working just fine though. I ran through my 480p component setup very quickly, but I remember reds being just as oversaturated.

Just so it's on the record, I'm using my HTPC connected via DVI and running the latest patched version of TheaterTek (2.1 I believe). RGB levels are correct (BTB and above reference white both pass). I use the color field patterns from Avia PRO for color calibration.

Tom, I'll run through it again late tonight and generate the CIE chart.

I didn't really want to spend $1300 on an Accupel, but having a device that puts out a solid reference signal would eliminate my sources as problems. It might be time to just suck it up and get one.

Anybody here use DisplayMate test patterns? Does it support proper video RGB levels over DVI?
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