The Official Canon SX50 Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 766 Old 08-25-2005, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Since mine will be delivered shortly, and others already have theirs, I thought it timely to start a thread for setup reports, discussions, questions from those interested in the projector, etc.

I'll ask that there be NO fighting, biting or flaming here. I will ask Alan to delete offenders. Let's share our setup experiences and experiences with peripherals including scalers, satellite/cable, DVD, etc.

Thanks

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post #2 of 766 Old 08-25-2005, 11:37 PM
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I'll be intererested to know how well, if anyone try's it, the sx50 works with a lense to convert it to 16/9. I was specifically thinking about the sx50 and the Prismasonic H500, and how well they might work together with my 110" 16 x 9 firehawk.

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post #3 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 04:53 AM
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Rick, I have a prismasonic HT1000 lens with my SX50 using a PC as a source.

It certainly does convert it to 16/9, but I have noticed that there is no apparent increase in brightness (the internal losses seem to make up for compressing the full panel brightness into a smaller image) and the contrast ratio is affected (using the SX50 with a PC, a small white menu on one half of the screen will show a dim ghost image in the other half of the screen). There is also a noticeable decrease in sharpness when using a PC but not really detectable with film/video as these sources are so much softer than a PC display. You also get some chromatic abberation which is apparent with a PC display and slightly apparent with video/film.

I'm not saying the prismasonic is bad, in fact it is well engineered for its price, but that adding extra optics does degrade the signal. The optics on the SX50 are pretty good, apart from a slight bow in the top of the image, the covergence test is perfect. Another SX50 user Icon Master puts forward an argument (some might say quite a few!) that its better to just use the projector native and accept that some of the panel wont be used. I tend to agree, the anamorphic lens does not help that much.

I'd say try it without the lens first and see how you like it. The SX50 without an extra lens will work well on your firehawk if you are masking above and below the screen.

On the tuning topic, I have only tuned the SX50 with PC display calibration software and the SX50 comes up pretty well. However that is different to running mpeg calibration through the PC video player, VMR9 etc. Does anyone know of an mpeg download for calibration video that I can run to check video calibration?

Regards,
Dean
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post #4 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Rick, the projector should work fine with an anamorphic lens. Just remember that some of these lenses SHORTEN throw distance. I have elected to go with screen masking rather than a lens on my new setup (for now) for simplification and because I think the superior fill and greater number of pixels will compensate. I may change my mind after setup.

Dan

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post #5 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 07:00 AM
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I've had alot of experience with the Gxx D-ilas, and would like some comments on shading issues with the SX-50.

Shading was generally a problem on the the Gxxs, but was fixable with Dilard or by wm.

It appears that at this point, whatever it is out of the box, it is. So how is it ?

- Chris
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post #6 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 09:42 AM
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Thanks for the info about the sx50/anamorphic lens guys. I may just try it 1st without one as you suggested. Can always add one later. My wall behind the firehawk is completely blacked out with a very dark fabric so overscan wouldn't be an issue.

On a side note, anyone here familiar with using the sx50 and a DVI distribution amp which somehow is supposed to aid in decryption of a of HDCP/DVI signal? I am being told this from a vendor and I don't see how a dist. amp would change anything.

I haven't emailed AVS yet, but do they sell the canon?

Rick
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post #7 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 11:25 AM
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speak with kei @ digital connection about the amp.
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post #8 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 11:52 AM
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I checked with a distributor of mine and I can get it. However, I'm not sure what they are going for out there. I will check into it and post back.
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post #9 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickE View Post

On a side note, anyone here familiar with using the sx50 and a DVI distribution amp

Rick

This is what you want and it works perfectly. No AVS" open" forum q's please.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...deo/ddd12p.asp
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post #10 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 10:49 PM
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I have a question, my Mitsubishi XD300U just blew up, heard a pop and it shut down immediately, color wheel came apart. I figure it's about time for an upgrade anyway though I will probably get it repaired for a backup or sale. I think I've settled on the SX50, I've been lurking and reading the reports and the strengths far outweigh the shortcomings to me. I went to our local Fry's and saw one in action, fiddled with it for awhile but it had no source, I think it will work perfectly for what I want though.

I am probably like alot of people attracted to the projector, I use projectors in ambiant light for everything: hi-def cable TV, computer, movies and video games. With the lack of inputs and a good onboard scalar, I probably need to run it either through a scalar or through my HTPC, and I wonder what those who have or plan to purchase this are using in that regard and what is preferrable? Sounds like it's best to feed it it's native res, so what is the best way to approach that with a minimum of hassle? I want to tweak for a little while and then enjoy forever without much more thought.
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post #11 of 766 Old 08-26-2005, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j10 View Post

and I wonder what those who have or plan to purchase this are using in that regard and what is preferrable? Sounds like it's best to feed it it's native res, so what is the best way to approach that with a minimum of hassle? I want to tweak for a little while and then enjoy forever without much more thought.

There are quite a few scalers available today, and most of the modern ones are very good, and generally quite plug-and-play. It's easier to pick them on features than on performance.

The point of a scaler is to feed it native res, so don't get a scaler that won't.
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post #12 of 766 Old 08-28-2005, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to feed mine native res once I get my DVDO VP 30 scaler, which also has the capability to adjust the frequency to native.

Dan

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post #13 of 766 Old 08-28-2005, 07:04 PM
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Has your Canon arrived yet Dan ?
I've been farting around today watching CNN about the huge hurricane and on AVS mainly hoping/waiting to hear your glee .
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post #14 of 766 Old 08-28-2005, 07:05 PM
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Christmas has come early this year, eh?
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post #15 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Rick, I have a prismasonic HT1000 lens with my SX50 using a PC as a source.

It certainly does convert it to 16/9, but I have noticed that there is no apparent increase in brightness (the internal losses seem to make up for compressing the full panel brightness into a smaller image) and the contrast ratio is affected (using the SX50 with a PC, a small white menu on one half of the screen will show a dim ghost image in the other half of the screen). There is also a noticeable decrease in sharpness when using a PC but not really detectable with film/video as these sources are so much softer than a PC display. You also get some chromatic abberation which is apparent with a PC display and slightly apparent with video/film.

I'm not saying the prismasonic is bad, in fact it is well engineered for its price, but that adding extra optics does degrade the signal. The optics on the SX50 are pretty good, apart from a slight bow in the top of the image, the covergence test is perfect. Another SX50 user Icon Master puts forward an argument (some might say quite a few!) that its better to just use the projector native and accept that some of the panel wont be used. I tend to agree, the anamorphic lens does not help that much.

I'd say try it without the lens first and see how you like it. The SX50 without an extra lens will work well on your firehawk if you are masking above and below the screen.

On the tuning topic, I have only tuned the SX50 with PC display calibration software and the SX50 comes up pretty well. However that is different to running mpeg calibration through the PC video player, VMR9 etc. Does anyone know of an mpeg download for calibration video that I can run to check video calibration?

Regards,
Dean

Well, one's awareness of brightness is usually a non-linear condition. Doubling the brightness might not be interpreted by one's eyes+brain as being twice as bright. As such, I would imagine going from 1400x788 to 1400x1050 only increases the maximum brightness performance by 33% that a 10-20% loss due to additional optics would yeild the same results as you descibe.

I guess the trade-offs are buying an anamorphic lens vs. masking unused portions of the panel.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #16 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Jimmy and Carled, it's due to arrive today.

Dan

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post #17 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 10:27 AM
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Dan,

Do you have any 48Hz or 72Hz sources to try with the SX50?
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post #18 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Not that I know of, Eric.

IT'S HERE!

Really small, compared to my last one.

Give me some time to hook it up and try both inputs. Remember, until I get my VP30, I'll be inputting XGA from my NRS and letting the projector scale it up.

Dan

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post #19 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 11:40 AM
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Well its been about 5 min. How does it look?

This should be good, real good.

Ken
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post #20 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 11:46 AM
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I'm deperately waiting for mine to come in today.
It was supposed to arrive Friday.... but to no avail....
I hope to contribute to this thread later on...
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post #21 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck View Post

Remember, until I get my VP30, I'll be inputting XGA from my NRS and letting the projector scale it up.

The VP30 will be able to produce 48Hz or 72Hz.
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post #22 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, but I'm not planning on conducting experiments with my projector. I'm going to give it exactly what Canon specifies for native resolution. It should have no problem with the 60 hz output of the NRS, even though the spec is 60.02.

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post #23 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 01:31 PM
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Have any SX50 owners tried 48Hz or 72Hz?
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post #24 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 02:06 PM
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Dan,

Can you post the build date and serial number?
Also, is the firmware/rom version posted somewhere in the menu? I see how to get it with serial commands.

Oh yeah, and maybe a few comments on the picture

Thanks,
Ken
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post #25 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 05:12 PM
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... I'd love to know if there are shading / uniformity issues, as in the JVC D-ilas.

Thanks,

- Chris
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post #26 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck View Post

IT'S HERE!

Really small, compared to my last one.

Give me some time to hook it up and try both inputs. Remember, until I get my VP30, I'll be inputting XGA from my NRS and letting the projector scale it up.

Dan

You've got a copy of Avia/DVE, right Dan? You'll need to adjust the contrast and brightness levels a bit from their out-of-the-box levels. You can overdrive contrast a bit on it if you want the best black levels possible, but you'll crush shadow detail if you do so I wouldn't recommend it.

Use cinema mode, and pick the lamp setting that sounds best to you.

Look forward to hearing your results. Best of luck.
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post #27 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled View Post

You've got a copy of Avia/DVE, right Dan? You'll need to adjust the contrast and brightness levels a bit from their out-of-the-box levels. You can overdrive contrast a bit on it if you want the best black levels possible, but you'll crush shadow detail if you do so I wouldn't recommend it.

How can the Contrast control change Black level or crush shadow detail ?
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post #28 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Carled, since I'll be inputting the XGA signal from my NRS, which port would you use. The DVI with RGB adapter or the RGB with component adapter? I have both cables since my old setup used two inputs. The RGB is what comes from the NRS but I can hook the component cables up to the NRS instead.

Dan

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post #29 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post

How can the Contrast control change Black level

Brightness control, sorry.

Quote:


or crush shadow detail ?

If you lower the black level too much (yet still at a level that is correct according the the black level setup on the calibration discs) on the SX50 you'll notice that the bottom few bars of the grey ramp patterns on Avia/DVE disappear. When watching movies you just get a dark murkiness rather than shadow detail. Setting the black level a little higher can fix that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck View Post

Carled, since I'll be inputting the XGA signal from my NRS, which port would you use. The DVI with RGB adapter or the RGB with component adapter? I have both cables since my old setup used two inputs. The RGB is what comes from the NRS but I can hook the component cables up to the NRS instead

Use the DVI input. It probably won't matter much, but it's not like it would hurt.
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post #30 of 766 Old 08-29-2005, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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OK people, I know you've all been waiting for. . . .

DAN'S PRELIMINARY REPORT ON THE CANON SX50

First, please note this first report is using the component input only. I'm going to have to pick up an adapter to use the DVI/RGB port.

Setup into my system was an absolute snap. I raised the adjustable projector shelf on my projector stand, put back the 2" x 2" lift blocks I used on the other projector, and presto, the image was perfectly aligned on my screen with just a little fiddling with the right-hand rear adjustable foot. Manual focus and zoom are really easy to use but I can see that if I am not careful when putting the lens cap on, I'll change the focus as it is very easy to turn. Lens cap is sorta cheesy, pretty thin plastic.

For this first run, I was feeding the projector from my LG LST4200A OTA HDTV box. Serendipity smiled on me and it is Monday Night Football time.

First thing I did was turn the lamp down on low mode. Then I selected "Cinema" mode. It is definitely darker and more contrasty. I turned on Dynamic Gamma. Didn't see much difference with that.

Out of the box, the color was overdriving IMO and a tad too green. The main image adjustment menu is an absolute snap to use and it is easy to see how your changes affect the image as you make them. I lowered the color level 3 ticks and lowered the green tint two ticks. I lowered contrast most of the way and turned off sharpness. The color is really rich even after initial settings.

In a dark room the image was too bright. I selected the low lamp setting. Definitely improved the black. Still VERY bright.

I selected the widescreen setting and noticed the "black bars" got a little darker. But these were most drastically affected by the "cinema" setting. The screen masking I am adding will make this a total non issue IMO.

I set the image to slighly overlap the vellum-covered frame of my firehawk. However, this projector doesn't seem to have that "blue frame" that has been reported earlier. The boundary between the "black bars" and the image is sharp and straight with nothing added.

FYI, I am using a Firehawk screen. 106" diagonal 4:3.

Here are my impressions, compared to my previous Sanyo XP21N LCD.

NOISE: A lot quieter than the Sanyo! Where I have it sitting, above the seating and beyond, the noise is simply not an issue. It is low pitched and can hardly be heard from a few feet away. Exhaust is pretty hot, even on low lamp. Fortunately, my setup directs this away from the seating but if you had this projector on a table in front of you, you might find the exhaust heat bothersome.

IMAGE: No keystone or other distortion, as I was able to mount the projector completely level and centered. Focus and zoom are really easy to use, even if manual. The lens on this projector is clearly excellent! I noticed none of the "jaggies" that inputting the same signal (720P over component) into my Sanyo produced. HDTV image was MUCH smoother.

THROW: Perfect for my setup. The front of the lens is 16.5' from the screen and I have plenty of adjustment left.

LENS & BUILD: NO distortion. Clearly, Canon has brought their mastery of camera lens technology to this projector. The projector looks well built, nice trim appearance. Oh, and it filters out the ground loop problem I had before, no need for the cheater plug.

IMAGE QUALITY: Film like, if a little soft. It has been previously reported that inputting through the RGB/component port gave a softer image. I'll be trying the other port shortly. However, the projector synced up flawlessly to the 720P from the HDTV tuner. Image was the right size and perfectly centered with no distortion on top or bottom. Grays are much more detailed than I was used to with the Sanyo.

OVERALL IMPRESSION: WOW!! This is one heckuva projector for the under $4grand purchase price. It is much better IMO than the JVC SX21 that used the same panels. The image has far more punch and the "purple black" problem is virtually nonexistent once you tweak a little. The image is so smooth I see no reason to use an anamorphic lens with it, there are plenty of pixels to go around. My seating distance is nearly 2 screen widths and you have to get your face right on the screen to see any pixels.

Next up, hooking up the rest of the system. I'm going to run the output from the LG box as a pass through signal through the NRS and combine everything into one cable, the VGA cable, and see what happens. I'll have that report for you in the next day or two.

Dan

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