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post #1 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I had a test sample (pre-production unit) of the ruby for a few days and I
also own 2 qualia (2 used for 3d).

Here are the results of my testing of the ruby under very good conditions
(see pictures of my very dark room "in a later post").

The first highlight was when I switched the ruby on.
It's incredible how quiet the unit was. My jvc d theater hd vcr makes more
noise than the projector!!!

Then, I measured the light out after I calibrated the unit on brightness,
contrast, and color.
i found.
652 lumen in iris off
355 lumen in iris on
524 lumen in iris auto (seams for some reason the iris not can open full at auto.
it have something to do with the
adjustments because 2 other tester found no difference at all for iris off and auto
in a 100% white picture)
all that after 70 hours lamp time.

So compared to the qualia, it is about half of the light out if you uses
iris off and compared it to the qualia iris off high lamp mode.
But, it's different if you use the qualia at iris 2 mode.
Then, the qualia has at about 2000:1 contrast ratio the same light out as the
ruby with no iris at 3000:1 contrast ratio or at auto with 17000:1!!!
It depends on how dark the projection room is and how is the taste I think the ruby is suitable
for screens up to 3.5m if you have a 1,0 gain screen.

Also very important is that you can lose more than 40% light depending on
how you drive the zoom lens. The unit has the most light in full wide
position of the zoom
(the biggest picture you can adjust)652 lux. Compared to the
maximum tele position (the smallest picture you can adjust) one loses more
than 40% of the light 368lux. So, if you like the maximum light output, you should
place the projector in a location where you drive the ruby mostly in the
full wide position. This is the same for all zoom lenses in other
projectors.

After color calibration I found
iris off 3080:1 contrast ratio
iris on 5560:1 contrast ratio
auto iris 17000:1 or bigger contrast ratio

There is much discussion about how the iris works and that it may create
some problems. I didn't see any problems while viewing a movie.

I have had about 7 different CRT projectors in the past.
The last was a double stack sony g 90, and I can tell you that
I never ever saw a digital projector that was so good in contrast
ratio.(auto iris) It is more or less like a good (8" or 9") liquid coupled
crt!!!

Concerning a screen door effect, I can see no pixels when I am 0.8 times the
screen width in distance from the screen. It's not an issue.

Color is state of the art thanks to a 3 chip design color wide and normal
setting and xenon lamp.

Convergence: The unit is almost perfect in the middle and the right side.
The left side has about 1 pixel off with 2 colors. On a test pattern you
can see that if you are focusing about it, but in a normal film you can not
see it under normal conditions (1.2 to 2.0 times the distance of the width
of the screen).

Inputs:
The unit takes every input signal; also 1080 p 50 and 60 hz.
It doesn't take the 1920x1080 24psf signal via digital input and that's a
big minus point. The germany manual says it can take the signal but the unit
doesn't!
I can not prove it but i hear that a germany magazine feed 1080 24p and 48p with no problems.

Shading:
The ruby has no visible shading when
you watch a movie. You can see a little bit in a test pattern, but in a
movie it's not an issue.

There is also a funny halo in the left upper and the right bottom corners.
Some very low light is visible in these corners when you display a 100%
black picture. Depends on how you measure the cr. (ansi or...)you get different no.


All in all, the ruby is the best projector I have ever seen in my cinema;
and I've seen a lot. Including a g 90 stack and a 2k 3 chip dlp for 180.000 euro
qualia and and and...

If my screen were in the 3 meter range, I would buy the ruby for me because in contrast ratio it is a big step up from the qualia. It's only 1/3 of the price and
it's so quiet.
But i will buy it anyway because i will use it at my holiday house.

If I had one free wish from sony, I would say they should bring out a
unit as soon as possible that had 2000 ansi light out or more for big screens, or
people like it very bright with an auto iris that gives me about the
same contrast ratio as the ruby has.

"I" need to wait until sony comes out with such a unit for my big 7m wide
screen, but for 99% of all people with a screen in the 3.5m range or below
the wait is over: You can purchase it in few weeks.

It is hard to believe and think about where sony could further improve such
a Projector, aside from the light out.

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post #2 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer
i found.
652 lumen in iris off
355 lumen in iris on
524 lumen in iris auto (seams for some reason the iris not can open full at auto.
it have something to do with the
adjustments because 2 other tester found no difference at all for iris off and auto
in a 100% white picture)
all that after 70 hours lamp time.
Pretty impressive if you think the Ruby is as good or better than a G90 stack.
What zoom position was the Ruby in when you made those lumen measurements?

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post #3 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:15 PM
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I wonder if production units may even be better. What a positive post:)
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post #4 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:20 PM
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Just for the record I want to point out that at 250 hours the Ruby would have less than half the lumen output of a G90 stack and ,at least as I have mine set up , still lower CR as well. Not taking anything away from it since from this and Greg's post a tremendous device. It sounds like on a 9' or 10' wide screen it would be the device to beat.

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post #5 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer
It is hard to believe and think about where sony could further improve such
a Projector, aside from the light out.
Great review. Many thanks for taking the time to post it. I also agree with your sentiments, digitals have finally improved on black level and on/off CR now to go along with their strengths in uniformity and resolution. I really can't imagine a need to get any better unless of course someone wants full-blown D-Cinema in their home on a huge screen. This hobby of ours has gone from being territory for only the serious hobbyist/tweakaphile to nearly plug and play. Other than watching a lot of movies, what are we going to do with all of our free time :D
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post #6 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:31 PM
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Art,

That G90 stack sells for what? How many have a single G90, let alone a G90 stack?

Added on edit
You say less than half, that's less than half of two CRT projectors, so in reality they are pretty comparable in light output.

You're talking about a $10K projector and having to spend way more, and I do mean way more to beat it.

So let's get realistic here, digital is catching up very quickly and the days of CRT are coming to an end very rapidly.

Best,

Contributing Editor & Surround Music Reviewer Widescreen Review
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post #7 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:32 PM
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throw distance is a problem if you have to position it at the wide lens position. That means it will be at about 11 or 12 back from the screen. If you have a low ceiling it is going to be low in the middle of the room. I also hope for a longer throw lens that would allow it to be placed near the back of the room without loosing so many precious lumens.

Dan
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post #8 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:36 PM
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Art,

" I want to point out that at 250 hours the Ruby would have less than half the lumen output of a G90 stack and "

Stack a pair of Rubys! ;)

Shawn
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post #9 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 12:40 PM
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Thanks for the review!

Quote:
but for 99% of all people with a screen in the 3.5m range or below
the wait is over
3.5 meters - that's about 137.7952756 inches (approximately :D ). That's a larger screen than Sony recommends. What size and gain screen did you test it on, what were the ftL coming off of that screen, and do you think it would still be bright enough after it has lost 50% of its light output?
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post #10 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 01:14 PM
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Using your lumens numbers on a 138" diagonal screen (3.5 meters), at 1.0 gain, we get:

652 lumen in iris off = 11.51 ftL
355 lumen in iris on = 6.26 ftL
524 lumen in iris auto = 9.25 ftL

Though the iris off setting provides marginally acceptable ftL on a NEW lamp, as soon as it begins to lose brightness, or if any other mode is used, then the projector falls to below theater brightness standards.

Even on a significantly smaller 110" diagonal screen (36 sq. ft.) at 1.0 gain, we get:

652 lumen in iris off = 18.11 ftL
355 lumen in iris on = 9.86 ftL
524 lumen in iris auto = 14.56 ftL

Thank you for confirming the brightness figures posted by others. As wonderful a picture as this thing puts out, it simply will not be bright enough long enough for my needs. :(
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post #11 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 01:27 PM
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On the other hand, for some sad sack like me that uses a lowly 80" width, .95 gain screen (25 sq ft)

652 lumen, iris off = 24.78 ftL
355 lumen, iris on = 13.49 ftL
524 lumen, iris on = 19.91 ftL

Clearly I would be just fine, and could start off with a neutral density filter in Auto Iris mode, then take it away as the bulb dims.

Of course all the numbers you gave are for a 1.0 gain screen, and a 138" diagonal and a 1.0 gain screen you're honestly needed some output to light that up.

Cheers,

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post #12 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 01:39 PM
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Somebody posted saying new Cermax bulbs might exhibit better aging behaviour. This was in a recent thread.

W.Mayer
Tryg has been hinting about something brighter from Sony. Time will tell if that happens. It would make sense. 10k$ is not the top top end at least not in dollars.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #13 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 01:52 PM
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Pictures have been added to the first post.
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post #14 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kotches
Art,

So let's get realistic here, digital is catching up very quickly and the days of CRT are coming to an end very rapidly.
While I will not argue that digital is coming ahead leaps and bounds, there is no way that in any fashion, the days of CRT are coming to an end. CRT will be around for a long time to come not to mention, when everybody jumps camp I'll have an EXCELLENT pick of 9" PJ's to choose from. :D

Cliff
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post #15 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson
Tryg has been hinting about something brighter from Sony.
Will it kill the SX50? ;)
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post #16 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:02 PM
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Sounds like a fantastic device.
If it's in the ~$5,000 range by late 2006/ early 2007, I'll definitely buy one.
My screen is a 133" High power so it should be bright enough...

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price

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post #17 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:22 PM
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Excellent post.

What is that lens in front of one of the Qualias? Is that your little girl in the pics (very cute), which PJ did she prefer, kids have no bias :D

Thanks for your efforts W. Mare.

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post #18 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson
Somebody posted saying new Cermax bulbs might exhibit better aging behaviour. This was in a recent thread.

W.Mayer
Tryg has been hinting about something brighter from Sony. Time will tell if that happens. It would make sense. 10k$ is not the top top end at least not in dollars.
Why would it necessarily have to be more expensive? A UHP bulb would cost less to begin with. don't know about the Cermax

Dan
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post #19 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:32 PM
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W. Mayer,

Besides brightness, many have commented elsewhere that the Ruby is not a sharp as the Qualia.

What's your opinion on this aspect of performance?

Noah
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post #20 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
While I will not argue that digital is coming ahead leaps and bounds, there is no way that in any fashion, the days of CRT are coming to an end. CRT will be around for a long time to come not to mention, when everybody jumps camp I'll have an EXCELLENT pick of 9" PJ's to choose from. :D

Cliff
Oh, oh not the CRT vs digital argument again. I'm going to run and hide before mhafner posts. :eek:

W.Mayer, what did you think of the shadow detail of the Ruby vs the Qualia? My worry is that the DI will crush blacks and reduce the great shadow detail that we've come to expect from LCOS.
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post #21 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
Oh, oh not the CRT vs digital argument again. I'm going to run and hide before mhafner posts. :eek:
Nah Mark, no CRT vs. Digital argument from me..... It's just a preference. :)

Cliff
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post #22 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 02:59 PM
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Sweet seats!
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post #23 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Somebody posted saying new Cermax bulbs might exhibit better aging behaviour. This was in a recent thread.

W.Mayer
Tryg has been hinting about something brighter from Sony.
These are examples of how rumors get started. There is no evidence of either of these pieces of speculation being true - just total guesswork on the part of two different people.
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post #24 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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What zoom position was the Ruby in when you made those lumen measurements?

both infos are in my post!
(the biggest picture you can adjust)652 lux. Compared to the
maximum tele position (the smallest picture you can adjust) one loses more
than 40% of the light 368lux.

art
after 300 hours it will lose 30% and after 2000 hours about 45%.

3.5 meters - that's about 137.7952756 inches (approximately)
may people here take care to much about numbers.
for my taste the unit have enough light for a 3,5m screen even if the light is down 45%
after 2000 hours.
most people will not complan.
i have "only 6.5flt on my 7m screen with the qualia and the isco lens but no one no one believe that the no. are so low when they saw my set up!
but again its your taste also.
i don't use the theater brightness standards.
i had measured 15yeas ago cinemas in germany and i found between 3.5 to 7.5 ftl.only!!!

its a isco 3 lens in front of one qualia and my daughter.

noah
no the ruby is better than the qualia because the qualia don't have the auto iris and all
the other things.
for me the big difference is that when the qualia have in a low light picture some "dust" in the picture that disappear completely with the ruby.
but there is financial always a issue.
the trues is some times hard.i have also 2 qualias!!!

mark thats one big plus from the ruby.compare to the qualia it have much better shadow
detail. the guy from www.cine4home.de saw that also.
i have no problem with ti and dlp (i still have a 3 chip dlp with xenon)but i hate the 2 dlp bugs.
more and more people start to see it also.
the ruby is so good that 3 tester from magazines after they test the ruby pre order the ruby.
thats 3 from 3.
i am not a dealer i have no financial interest and i am not payed by sony but
this pr. is a milestone.

oh yes not the CRT vs digital argument again!!!
when the first dvds are released people say laser disk is better.
some say that more than a year long.......
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post #25 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 03:39 PM
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Great post W Mayer. I am in that sit and wait fraternity. I must admit it sounds promising, and I ain't that keen on a overly bright image. If anything, many people say the picture on my set up is too dark, but that is just the way I like it...:)

Mark

PS: The arguements about CRT v Digital is getting long in the tooth. Besides, my dad was always bigger at school :)

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post #26 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 03:42 PM
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great review as ever mr mayer im glad i have pre ordered one now at last i will join the 1080 gang :)
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post #27 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 03:50 PM
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Decisions, Decisions.

Sell my Marantz S3 now and get the Sony Ruby on November 26th here in Australia or hold of until CES in January to see what 1080P DLP products are released, their pricing points, and comparisons to the Ruby. However I remember Art saying that the only thing that was better than the prototype Ruby that he saw was the 3-Chip 1080P DLP prototype which will probably be to cost prohibitive for me anyway.

Decisions, Decisions.

Though W.Mayer chosing the Ruby over the Qualia makes it a little easier or harder :)
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post #28 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
While I will not argue that digital is coming ahead leaps and bounds, there is no way that in any fashion, the days of CRT are coming to an end. CRT will be around for a long time to come not to mention, when everybody jumps camp I'll have an EXCELLENT pick of 9" PJ's to choose from. :D

Cliff
They ain't making new CRT front projection. That's my point. The only "new" is what the vaccuum tube guys call "New Old Stock", meaning it ain't sold yet, it's old inventory. There's no development going on, which is the sign of a technology that is dieing. Kind of like analog VHS, not much going on with that either.

I'm glad you like CRT, and the 100+ lbs over your head, or blocking the middle of the room and the best seats. Meanwhile, digital continues to progress and will surpass CRT. It really is just a matter of time. I give it 5 years at the most with the several fronts that are being worked on.

There will still be adherents to CRT in 10-15 years, just like there are adherents to vinyl.

Cheers,

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post #29 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 04:20 PM
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John,

I concur completely with your statement.

I was one of those that thought Laser was so much better than DVD, vinyl better than CD, Cortina better than the Falcon, Boeing better than the Airbus, and so on and so on...When will this end?! Its getting boring and its very unoriginal...Its just not cricket anymore...(tongue firmly in cheek)...

Mark

PS: I thought it was dying, not dieing - just checked my dictionary lol :)

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post #30 of 487 Old 11-18-2005, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer
mark thats one big plus from the ruby.compare to the qualia it have much better shadow
detail. the guy from www.cine4home.de saw that also.
Hi W. Mayer,

Again my complements on an informative post. The Ruby sounds fantastic. Any idea why the shadow detail is better on the Ruby than the Qualia? I expected the opposite, but with the possible exception of improved detail (on the Ruby) at the the very bottom (5-7IRE). Is it simply the case that the elevated black level and lower CR on the Qualia washout shadow detail?
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