Optoma HD81 1080p DLP official discussion - Page 160 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4771 of 4812 Old 03-15-2012, 04:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen View Post

The replacement lamp from myprojectorlamps is philips, as was the one Optoma put in the first time I sent it back (which I refer to as "the original"), and the specs are correct, but the original was made in Belgium, the new one made in China. The reflector in the new one has a yellowish tint to it compared to the original. It looks intentional, since I see some gold colouring near seams. I also think the glass on the outside of the lamp is kind of cloudy looking whereas the original looks clear. Has anyone replaced a lamp lately that they purchased directly from Optoma? Have you noticed the same things I have? I told this to myprojectorlamps, and they told me to install and they'd replace if it didn't work properly (which I'll take to mean if it messes up the colours).

I got a Diamond replacement lamp last week for my HD81. I couldn't look at the bulb as directly as you because it came in the housing, but comparing the two the only difference I noticed is the ORIGINAL did not have a screen built into the housing but the replacement did.
It installed perfectly, but I haven't calibrated it yet, so I don't know if it screwed up the colors. "UP" looked good for the first 5 minutes, but that's all I've done so far.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4772 of 4812 Old 03-15-2012, 06:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hi Scott,

These projectors are good for only one thing. They do a better job of rendering a picture on my 1.3 gain 96" wide screen than anything else I've tried. Lots of people bring their stuff over to try on my system so I've had a chance to look at a number of the newer projectors. This LV unit, quirky as it may be, does put up a gorgeous picture. If you have one, consider yourself lucky. I could have switched long ago but have not because I love the picture.

BTW, turning the lamp life setting to zero should have no effect on anything.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4773 of 4812 Old 03-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
sstephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:


They do a better job of rendering a picture on my 1.3 gain 96" wide screen than anything else I've tried.

I honestly don't know if that's nice to hear or not While I'd like to think I got decent value for my original investment, I'd also like to think that when the time comes to replace it, I can make significant improvements.

Scott Stephens
sstephen is offline  
post #4774 of 4812 Old 04-11-2012, 09:36 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi All, I have had this projector (Optoma HD81) for more then 4 years now (and have had flawless operation after certain repairs initially, I will share with you) and i have had a lot of experience in terms of general functioning and upgrading the lamps.

Came back to this thread after a long time and a little late in the day as I am leaving office now but in the morning (UK time) I will post my experiences.

And I agree with the above comments, although some of you have found this unit quirky I myself am so afraid to change it because i know i won't find something with such amazing picture quality (especially considering if i wanted to upgrade because of 3D, I really do not want to loose this good 2D). I am using the 85" Stuart Firehawk screen with it,

In the meanwhile PLEASE PLEASE can someone advise what the access to service menu key's are and where from I enter them.

I tried:

down, down, left, left,down,left from remote, nothing happens

and

power off, left, left, up, nothing happens.

I have one nagging issue also will add to the thread in the morning...

MANY MANY THANKS
yousafm is offline  
post #4775 of 4812 Old 04-11-2012, 09:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
erkq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by yousafm View Post

I myself am so afraid to change it because i know i won't find something with such amazing picture quality

I wouldn't worry about "losing" picture quality. The PQ of the HD81 has been left in the dust... modern projectors are on a different planet. CR alone gives modern projector images depth and pop the HD81 could only dream of. I would say anything over $2500 will blow the HD81 away. It was an amazing projector for its time and price-point, especially for brightness. But it has been far, far surpassed. Even my 3 year old JVC RS20 would blow it away, except maybe for brightness. But your 85" screen will be pretty easy to light up.
erkq is online now  
post #4776 of 4812 Old 04-11-2012, 11:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have to chime in about PQ. I have looked for better projectors and found none. The 3 chip projectors are awful because of misconvergence.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4777 of 4812 Old 04-11-2012, 12:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
erkq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

I have to chime in about PQ. I have looked for better projectors and found none. The 3 chip projectors are awful because of misconvergence.

Sound pretty hyperbolic. "Awful"?? With the new zone-based convergence adjustment you can get the whole screen perfect. Even if you're 1/4 pixel out somewhere, you can SEE that at normal viewing distances? I can't with my 20/20 vision at THX viewing angles, that's for sure!

Most 3 chip projectors have a softer look than a single-chip DLP. That's been acknowledged, debated to death, and accepted as preference. But "Awful"?? No, they're not awful by any means. But it is a different look that many actually prefer.

What collection of modern 3 chip projectors have you seen that all have shown "awful" convergence? Must be a pretty carefully selected set.
erkq is online now  
post #4778 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 03:56 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's great feedback guys am feeling more confident.

Hello Art, thanks for your reply also, i remember your name on threads from way back on the HD81. Any chance you can help me with the service menu access on the HD81. Which screen should i be on and what buttons to press.

A Problem is really baffling me because i think my projector is confused about the state of the lamp, i have to push the power button many times before the controller starts and kicks on the projector. I made a mistake a while back where i pushed a lamp too far (after disabling the reminder) before eventually the controller would not kick on the projector. After changing the lamp it managed to start again but this issue started occurring.

That lamp is now finished and another new lamp is installed but the power issue is there and or worse. I have to now push the power on button many more times before it starts (remote or on the controller). I think the software is confused on the controller so wanted the service menu to check some values. I believe because i have used as many as 5 lamps now over the 4 years or so (each getting 2000+ hours on average) I think the controllers confused with lamp state. Any advise from anyone would be appreciated. Once the projector starts it works flawlessly, no blue screen or any issues whatsoever and that stunning picture.

Many Thanks,
Y.

BTW For those who had blue screen issues, i had them in the first year, sent off to Europe Optoma repair, waited a little longer then usual as they were waiting for a part, it was the I/O board they changed which solved the blue screen issue as well as 1080p and other resolution problems from a PC connection. I have used the hell out of this projector and the picture is sill as good as day one, apart from this damn turning on issue....
yousafm is offline  
post #4779 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 05:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I recently purchased a refurbished unit because I could not turn the projector on consistently with the power button on my my VXD controller. I had the same issue previously and had to send it in for repair. They did not tell me how they fixed it.

I do not think the service menu is the answer. I do not have the button sequence any more. Sorry.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4780 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 06:30 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
NP, thanks for the quick reply Art
yousafm is offline  
post #4781 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 06:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Sound pretty hyperbolic. "Awful"?? With the new zone-based convergence adjustment you can get the whole screen perfect. Even if you're 1/4 pixel out somewhere, you can SEE that at normal viewing distances? I can't with my 20/20 vision at THX viewing angles, that's for sure!

Most 3 chip projectors have a softer look than a single-chip DLP. That's been acknowledged, debated to death, and accepted as preference. But "Awful"?? No, they're not awful by any means. But it is a different look that many actually prefer.

What collection of modern 3 chip projectors have you seen that all have shown "awful" convergence? Must be a pretty carefully selected set.

I started playing with TV PQ and tuneup in the 60's. As far back as i can remember achieving a crisp, sharp picture has been an absolute necessity if a TV was going to be highly rated. Sharpness controls artificially tried to enhance the detail. When flat panel sets came into the market, manufacturers tried to achieve as crisp a picture as possible. When TI introduced DLP, the PQ was enhanced significantly especially in the area of sharpness. The DLP system, however, is expensive to manufacture and prone to failure. Only well engineered, robust designs provide acceptable operating lifetimes. 3 chip systems used in many budget projectors offer a cheaper alternative to the complex DLP solution. Unfortunately, the picture is visibly softer and the convergence issue introduces again a problem that required very expensive and complex workarounds in CRT TV's. Manufacturers are again trying to provide these workarounds in the better 3 chip units because absent these, the convergence issues are so significant that they make discriminating viewers look to other technologies such as DLP.

After all the problems I have endured with mt Optoma HD81-LV I was ready to buy a new projector with 3 panel technology. After months of looking, I realized the PQ I was getting from my HD81 was far superior to any of the 3 chip designs I brought home to try.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4782 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 08:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
erkq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

After all the problems I have endured with mt Optoma HD81-LV I was ready to buy a new projector with 3 panel technology. After months of looking, I realized the PQ I was getting from my HD81 was far superior to any of the 3 chip designs I brought home to try.

I wish there was some way they could get DLP CR up to current 3-chip levels. Then we'd have the best of all worlds! What 3 chippers did you try? Just curious.
erkq is online now  
post #4783 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 08:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I tried and AE7000, an EPson 5010 and a Sony 95 ES. They all looked out of focus and convergence issues drove me crazy.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4784 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 10:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
sstephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I had that power button issue, and I'm only at the end of my second lamp. The current one has about 1800 hrs. on it. I opened the VXD to see if there was a loose connection on the power button. There didn't seem to be. While it was open, I blew some air through it to remove any dust, even though it looked clean. When I plugged it back in, the power button problem was gone. I can think of nothing else that I did which might have corrected the problem. Unplug it for a few hours from the wall and from the projector itself, if you haven't already, and see if that corrects the problem. If that isn't sufficient, you might want to open it and see if there is any debris in there. I know it doesn't sound likely that it will fix your problem, but hey, what have you got to lose?

Scott Stephens
sstephen is offline  
post #4785 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 10:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for the suggestion. I will try.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4786 of 4812 Old 04-12-2012, 01:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
guitarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Bay Area San Francisco.
Posts: 12,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I don't think I ever had the service code for the projector or scaler box. I did have the firmware for the scaler box at one time. I remember trying it and something went wrong and I had to send the scaler box back. So I wouldn't recomend it even if I could find it.

Tom/guitarman
VideoDementia

Are you twisted also?
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/TomWithWires.jpg
guitarman is offline  
post #4787 of 4812 Old 04-13-2012, 03:08 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks guys for all the input this is very encouraging, greetings guitarman, thanks for the quick R.

I will open the scaler and give it some pressure air-can business. BTW, this power on issue happens with the remote also which is why i was thinking down the software being confused (because of the lamp) route. But the above suggestions give me some confidence.

Shame I cannot get into the service menu, I also wanted to tighten the color wheel speed but never mind.
yousafm is offline  
post #4788 of 4812 Old 04-13-2012, 03:22 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh, and on a side note, i have opened a HD80 recently (probably similar inside to the HD81), family member had issues where the color wheel would go haywire and start flickering etc. We aired out the color wheel area, removed the screws and re-tightened the wheel assembly, we also used the a cleaning cloth one uses for spectacles to clean the wheel as we manually rotated, the thing was shining like crystals when we finished, that machine is now working flawlessly with a good result to the picture also.
yousafm is offline  
post #4789 of 4812 Old 04-14-2012, 11:21 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi SStephen thanks for your advise, I tried opening the controller, i opened the 8 torque screws at the top but that top metal plate does not budge, is there a technique to open this. There were 4 screws underneath but they seem to be just to hold the 4 feet in place. Under the front lid there are a few screws, the ones i opened loosened the menu button so in fear of them dropping into the chasis i screwed them back up again. There are about 3 very low down on the front towards the bottom edge of the front cover but they are hard to get into with a screw driveras when you open the cover they are 3/4 viewable, am i missing anything to get this open, any advise apprecaited,

Thanks,
Y.
yousafm is offline  
post #4790 of 4812 Old 04-14-2012, 02:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
sstephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
If yours is the same as mine, then, no there was no trick to it. After removing the screws, open that front door. That should expose a fair amount of the front edge of that lid, and you should be able to pry up the lid by hand, but if it is sticky, you might try gently prying up in several spots along that front with a small screw driver. Beyond that, I can't think of anything else other than brute force, which I wouldn't recommend.

Scott Stephens
sstephen is offline  
post #4791 of 4812 Old 04-16-2012, 05:10 AM
Member
 
yousafm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Sstephen, will try while holding my breath.

FYI, found/borrowed someones HD81 controller and tried it on my projector, starts up straight away, so yes it is the scaler that is causing the issue.
yousafm is offline  
post #4792 of 4812 Old 03-24-2013, 09:32 PM
Member
 
Infinitenothing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I'm having an issue with my projector I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar issue or knew of an explanation. All 3 HDMI ports aren't working properly. If I connect it to a Windows computer outputting DVI, Windows labels the projector as a " Generic Non-PnP Monitor " and only offers me 1 resolution (1024x768). Is there some setting that I accidentally screwed up somehow? The other HDMI input is connected to a PS3 and that stopped working altogether. I'm thinking about getting an edid cheater since that's what I think is missing.
Infinitenothing is offline  
post #4793 of 4812 Old 03-24-2013, 10:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
sstephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
So even if you connect the ps3 to any of the hdmi inputs, none of them work? Because using a different edid won't help if nothing else can connect to any of the hdmi inputs

Scott Stephens
sstephen is offline  
post #4794 of 4812 Old 03-25-2013, 02:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Mine starts working after a good rap on the top. Very strange. I've had three controllers fail the same way. Only one responds to force.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4795 of 4812 Old 03-25-2013, 09:24 PM
Member
 
Infinitenothing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen View Post

So even if you connect the ps3 to any of the hdmi inputs, none of them work? Because using a different edid won't help if nothing else can connect to any of the hdmi inputs

Correct, none work. The reason I think the edid simulator would work is because windows doesn't see any display resolutions. Clearly there's some connection there since windows can use the monitor but I'm guessing there's nothing to tell Windows and the PS3 what resolutions to use. Windows just guesses but the PS3 guess wrong maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

Mine starts working after a good rap on the top. Very strange. I've had three controllers fail the same way. Only one responds to force.

For clarification, you whack the top of the controller box not the projector right? wink.gif. Any chance Optima would help me. I'm assuming I'm way way out of warranty.
Infinitenothing is offline  
post #4796 of 4812 Old 03-26-2013, 05:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have two projectors and two controller boxes. Both have exhibited the "failure to start" phenomenon. When i experienced the original failure of this type, i returned the whole system to Optoma. They changed boards in the projector and repaired the controller. They charged $800.00 for the repair. The returned projector worked well for 4 months then failed. I bought a refurb projector and controller from Optoma for $2,450.00. That controller worked fine with the old projector but eventually failed. I had two good projectors and 2 bad controllers. One night I gave one of the controllers are hard smack on its top. After that, it has worked for 6 months. The bulb in the projector I use, the one Optoma returned for the $800.00 repair, has 2400 hours on it. Picture is OK. The other controller box has not worked regardless of how I hit it. I suspect that a relay in the box becomes stuck but who knows. My son in law just bought a new Epson 5220 3D projector with 3 panels. I swear that my picture is sharper and does not suffer from the convergence issues that are clearly apparent on 3 panel units.
CriticalListener likes this.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
post #4797 of 4812 Old 03-26-2013, 12:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
sstephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
The only thing I'm going to suggest is to bypass the switchbox altogether. You can plug the output of the computer or ps3 to the input part of where that shunt hdmi cable would go. You know, that little short 4 or 5 inch one. See how that works. I don't mean to bypass the controller box altogether, though you could try that also. I know I did that once, but can't remember what devices I had in the loop. Hope you know what I mean. I can't think of a better explanation right now, and don't have any other suggestions. You could check the htpc forums for the software you need to do an edid override.

Scott Stephens
sstephen is offline  
post #4798 of 4812 Old 04-02-2013, 01:25 PM
Newbie
 
clubbedougan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am about to take delivery of an HD81LV with a non working processor. What happens if I connect the HDMI directly into the projector from the BD player, to check the projector ?
clubbedougan is offline  
post #4799 of 4812 Old 04-02-2013, 01:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jeff Regan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Foster City, California
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by clubbedougan View Post

I am about to take delivery of an HD81LV with a non working processor. What happens if I connect the HDMI directly into the projector from the BD player, to check the projector ?

Nothing. Projector won't power up. Have to have the processor to do anything, projector needs to see the processor via RS232 cable .
Jeff Regan is offline  
post #4800 of 4812 Old 04-02-2013, 01:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MrHifi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Davidsonville, MD
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have several non working processors. Without the processor, you have a doorstop.

Art Neill
a.k.a.
Mr. HiFi
MrHifi is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Optoma , Vivitek D950hd 3000 Lumen 1080p Office And Home Theater Projector , Casio Rs 232 Adapter Catalog Category Projectors Accessories
Gear in this thread - D950hd by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off