Optoma HD81 1080p DLP official discussion - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Optoma HD81 1080p DLP official discussion
Al Sherwood's Avatar Al Sherwood 11:24 AM 03-09-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

based on this photo

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...110/dg6203.jpg

the only connection out to a receiver is HDMI

Based on this photo, will that "IR connector" be compatible with "Niles" IR products? What about the PJ itself?

thanks

MrWigggles's Avatar MrWigggles 03:52 PM 03-09-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Won't the increased resolution of 1080p be readily noticeable at the close viewing distances that are typical with front projection? I come from a background in RPTV, and there it is 'conventional wisdom' that the increased resolution of 1080p is readily observed if one sits as close as 1.5 x the screen diagonal. With FP, it seems that sitting at ~ 1.5 x the screen WIDTH (= 1.3 x screen diagonal) is very common, so wouldn't 1080p be a significant enhancement (whereas it really isn't if one sits 12 ft away from a 50" RPTV)?

Yes, with average vision, you will start to see noticeable differences between 720p and 1080p starting at 2 screen widths back. At 1.5 screen widths the difference should be very obvious - the 1080p image WILL BE SMOOTHER than 720p.

Now, the 1080p will also LIKELY be more DETAILED but that will depend on content. A lot of HD content has over 720p detail but very little HD content available today has full 1920 X 1080 detail (in terms of MTF).

In other words, a 1080p projector with good scaling should be less digital looking than a 720p competitor. However, the final image is only as good as the content.

This lack of detail issue in the content is the main reason I'm not transitioning to a 1080p projector until high definition DVD is available. That's a different discussion...

-Mr. Wigggles
Al Sherwood's Avatar Al Sherwood 05:21 PM 03-09-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWigggles View Post

Yes, with average vision, you will start to see noticeable differences between 720p and 1080p starting at 2 screen widths back. At 1.5 screen widths the difference should be very obvious - the 1080p image WILL BE SMOOTHER than 720p.

Now, the 1080p will also LIKELY be more DETAILED but that will depend on content. A lot of HD content has over 720p detail but very little HD content available today has full 1920 X 1080 detail (in terms of MTF).

In other words, a 1080p projector with good scaling should be less digital looking than a 720p competitor. However, the final image is only as good as the content.

This lack of detail issue in the content is the main reason I'm not transitioning to a 1080p projector until high definition DVD is available. That's a different discussion...

-Mr. Wigggles

Interesting points, and I agree, but would you also say that a 1080i digital satellite signal should look better on a 1080 projector versus a 720 projector?

As for that HD-DVD... I saw one on display in Fry's in Sunnyvale 2 weeks ago, a Toshiba, looked good, unfortunately only playing a demo disc that was comparing regular DVD to HD-DVD using a split screen format.

I'll say one thing those, they had enough anti-theft straps on that puppy, I guess that they were sure that their customers couldn't be trusted!
Bsims2719's Avatar Bsims2719 06:15 PM 03-09-2006
I don't know if this has already been posted but there are prices on the internet for the HD81 that are a lot lower than the Ruby. Can this be true? Honestly I dont think this projector should have a MSRP 4 to 5 times that of 720p dlp models. Look at rear projection dlp units, the 1080 chips are only 500 more than the 720 models. Arent these the same chips used in front projection. Why are we having to pay so much.
Randall Morton's Avatar Randall Morton 07:31 PM 03-09-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsims2719 View Post

I don't know if this has already been posted but there are prices on the internet for the HD81 that are a lot lower than the Ruby. Can this be true? Honestly I dont think this projector should have a MSRP 4 to 5 times that of 720p dlp models. Look at rear projection dlp units, the 1080 chips are only 500 more than the 720 models. Arent these the same chips used in front projection. Why are we having to pay so much.

It's new. If you want cutting edge then you have to help pay for the development. There are no 1080P DLP Front projectors for sale today anywhere near this price. I guarantee if you had one of the 1080 Optomas today for sale, you could sell it for $20K, probably more.

If I were Optoma, I would probably try to make sure they sold for about the same price as the Sony. Sell as many as you can at the higher price and lower the price when more competition comes out. Wait 6 months to a year and 1080p front projection will be cheaper. This is assuming that Optoma is first to market.

If you want something now, you should probably go for 1080 rear projection and save money.
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar HoustonHoyaFan 11:49 PM 03-09-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsims2719 View Post

Look at rear projection dlp units, the 1080 chips are only 500 more than the 720 models. Arent these the same chips used in front projection.

They are not the "wobulated" 960x1080 chips used in the RPTV, nor the 2048x1080chips used in the dCinema units. They are brand new 1920x1080 .95" DMDs.
jmorris644's Avatar jmorris644 05:36 AM 03-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

based on this photo

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...110/dg6203.jpg

the only connection out to a receiver is HDMI

Help me out here. Why would we want the sigal back at the receiver anyway? I am sure as soon as I hear I will be imitating Homer (DOH!)

Joe
Dave Harper's Avatar Dave Harper 07:31 AM 03-10-2006
For the digital audio that can be supplied thru HDMI.
jmorris644's Avatar jmorris644 08:43 AM 03-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

For the digital audio that can be supplied thru HDMI.

Hmmm. I am assuming that this is an answer to my question.

My intent is to use the receiver to manage the audio/video inputs. So would I have any use for the HDMI audio output?

Would most people plan to use the scaler to manage their video sources?

Thanks

Joe
Kevin R. Anderson's Avatar Kevin R. Anderson 08:54 AM 03-10-2006
Joe: I think you are right that if you have a receiver that has HDMI switching functionality, then you would not need or use the HDMI audio output of the HD81 scaler. However, for those who do not already have an HDMI switcher, this could be a useful option.
John Kotches's Avatar John Kotches 09:03 AM 03-10-2006
To me, it makes more sense to send all HDMI to the scaler, assuming you have sufficient inputs. This allows you to delay HDMI audio output from the "To Receiver" output long enough to handle the video processing latency.

If you exceed your number of available HDMI inputs then it's a different ball game.

Chers,
jmorris644's Avatar jmorris644 10:09 AM 03-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kotches View Post

To me, it makes more sense to send all HDMI to the scaler, assuming you have sufficient inputs. This allows you to delay HDMI audio output from the "To Receiver" output long enough to handle the video processing latency.

If you exceed your number of available HDMI inputs then it's a different ball game.

Chers,

That makes sense but it is also a little disturbing. What kind of processing delay do you think we will be seeing? If I use my receiver as my HDMI switch will I be watching something like the old Japanese movies? How out of sync will the video and audio be?

Joe
HiHoStevo's Avatar HiHoStevo 10:16 AM 03-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris644 View Post

That makes sense but it is also a little disturbing. What kind of processing delay do you think we will be seeing? If I use my receiver as my HDMI switch will I be watching something like the old Japanese movies? How out of sync will the video and audio be?

Joe

Joe, I have never used an external scaler (but hope to some day)... however, most receivers that switch video also have delay capability built into the receiver where you can specify a delay (in milliseconds) for the audio.
John Kotches's Avatar John Kotches 10:55 AM 03-10-2006
Joe,

Some video processors will tell you what the latency is in frames or milliseconds. I can't answer that, as the various video processors have different latencies.

It doesn't change my point though.

Cheers,
MrWigggles's Avatar MrWigggles 07:34 PM 03-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kotches View Post

To me, it makes more sense to send all HDMI to the scaler, assuming you have sufficient inputs. This allows you to delay HDMI audio output from the "To Receiver" output long enough to handle the video processing latency.

If you exceed your number of available HDMI inputs then it's a different ball game.

Chers,

You're assuming the scaler has audio delay capability, which would be nice but not 100% guaranteed. I would guess that most HD81 owners will (or should) have a receiver that can do audio delay.

Most modern scalers and projectors have somewhere on the order of 3-5 video fields of delay or what would be no more than 2 film frames of delay. That amounts 50-83 milliseconds. For direct inputs native resolution inputs the delay is usually less but will always be at least 16ms (when compared to a CRT that draws the signal as soon as it gets it).

My fearless guess is that the HD81 will have roughly 4 frames of delay in the scaler and 1 frame at the projector for 5 frames total. Now I don't know how much latency is in DD or THX decoding, but I bet you would be safe adding in 50ms of delay for a good ball park estimate of what you need to apply. (The idea is to get the overall lip-sync mismatch to less than 1 film frame , +/-41ms, at that point it is hard to tell poor lip sync.)

At some point I wouldn't be surprised if broadcasters started putting in a few ms of audio delay of their own as their customers transition from CRT to digital displays.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. You will be amazed at the different levels of video delay amoung various digital displays at your local Best Buy. Watch for scene changes. The Samsungs are usually obviously slower than the other displays.
John Kotches's Avatar John Kotches 07:46 PM 03-10-2006
Mr. Wiggles,

Yes I am assuming that the scaler has built in audio delay. I think that any competently designed video processor/scaler that includes audio switching capability should include audio delay to account for processor latency.

The latency for DD/DTS decodes isn't high at all, essentially zero. You have to work on the packets and feed your DAC at 48kHz so once you lock onto the signal your latency has to be less than 1/48K seconds to keep the DAC fed without dropping samples.

This latency actually has to go down if you're talking about higher sampling rates. There's really only one way to accomplish this. More DSP
Signia's Avatar Signia 03:42 PM 03-13-2006
Any ideas when this unit will be out? I have heard June or July. My HT project will be completed in mid-June so I would like to wait for this if it is a real date.
Rob Tomlin's Avatar Rob Tomlin 05:16 PM 03-13-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Signia View Post

Any ideas when this unit will be out? I have heard June or July. My HT project will be completed in mid-June so I would like to wait for this if it is a real date.

Your HT project will go at least 6 weeks beyond your projected completion date, so you should be able to wait for this PJ!


Signia's Avatar Signia 05:40 PM 03-13-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Your HT project will go at least 6 weeks beyond your projected completion date, so you should be able to wait for this PJ!


I would agree with your statment if I was doing it myself but I am having a contractor do it. They are big builder here in St. Louis and average completion time is ~90 days.
Rob Tomlin's Avatar Rob Tomlin 05:49 PM 03-13-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Signia View Post

I would agree with your statment if I was doing it myself but I am having a contractor do it. They are big builder here in St. Louis and average completion time is ~90 days.

Got ya. That does make a difference, but even then contractors can be, well.......contractors!



Good luck!
shenard's Avatar shenard 07:44 PM 03-13-2006
When is this projector going to be available and does anyone know what the street value will be?
Signia's Avatar Signia 09:57 PM 03-13-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Got ya. That does make a difference, but even then contractors can be, well.......contractors!



Good luck!

Ever see The Money Pit? 2 more weeks...
Al Sherwood's Avatar Al Sherwood 09:49 AM 03-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Signia View Post

Ever see The Money Pit? 2 more weeks...

I stopped saying weeks a long time ago and now say years...
SimpleTheater's Avatar SimpleTheater 10:45 AM 03-15-2006
I figured out a solution to my NAD T773 problem (the problem being their is no HDMI input on the NAD and the H81 scaler only has an HDMI output - no optical).

The Gennum 2x2HDMI switcher has an optical output. A bit expensive to solve one small problem, but it should work. This will also make it easy when I switch sources on the Optoma scaler since I won't need to switch audio input on the NAD.
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2757

--SimpleTheater
Earz's Avatar Earz 11:11 AM 03-15-2006
Looks like I will be forced to buy a new bulb for my h-78 well before I can buy an h-81.
Its also looking like I will have a 1080p source, much sooner than a 1080p pj to use it with.
SimpleTheater's Avatar SimpleTheater 11:41 AM 03-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz View Post

Looks like I will be forced to buy a new bulb for my h-78 well before I can buy an h-81.
Its also looking like I will have a 1080p source, much sooner than a 1080p pj to use it with.

This unit looks like its ready for delivery today (a one-chip 1080p DLP projector).
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1409

I'm not sure of the price, but probably a lot more than $10k.

--SimpleTheater
Earz's Avatar Earz 11:50 AM 03-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

This unit looks like its ready for delivery today (a one-chip 1080p DLP projector).
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1409

I'm not sure of the price, but probably a lot more than $10k.

--SimpleTheater

Thanks, looks nice.....but I am planning on spending less than 10k.
So that brings me back to the H-81.

I guess I will be finding out how 1080p looks, via the H-78 until then.
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 04:32 PM 03-15-2006
I heard today late May early june. It can't come soon enough though the projectors receipe has too much to offer. Not just mearly the 1080p chip. High brightness from the larger DMD and 300 watt UHP bulb, auto Iris w/step stops and auto action, Brilliant Color, Gennum scaler box. Internet deals

I bet we'll get some wicked ANSI and Full field contrast out of this puppy.
Ohlson's Avatar Ohlson 05:27 PM 03-15-2006
guitarman
Are you saying HD81 will have
- powered iris with multiple steps

If you are saying HD81 will have an auto iris like Ruby that would be news to me and bad news according to some people.
Ron Jones's Avatar Ron Jones 06:15 PM 03-15-2006
If the HD81 schedule slips much more it may not come out much ahead of the planned summer release of the 1080p Sharp FP. The Sharp will probably have a MSRP of a couple of thousand more, but it may also have some additional features, such as an adjustable lens offset (which would make it acceptable for many more home theater layouts).

Ron Jones
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