Optoma HD81 1080p DLP official discussion - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:03 PM
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Hey D.D., I am not even suggesting that by us posting here we could sway a company. DO NOT put words in my post. I am simply stating that for a 10K PJ there should be lens shift (especialy in 2006). And my home was built in 2005 with 8 foot ceilings. As were most of the people in the Chicagoland area. I am not deluding myself as you put it. If Optoma chooses to leave off an important feature that the loyal Optoma Hx people have gotten used to, then we either wait for their nextr PJ or try another company. But they should remember who has supported them..BTW, I love my H79!

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post #182 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:04 PM
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"Who is trying to vilfying optoma ?"

I guess that was too strong a word.

As QQQ alluded to, many people's tone was rather angry, which is not nice for the recipient, and will in the best case be ignored and at worst drive away the bearer of the infornmation we all thirst after.

Noah
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post #183 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post


...anyone else knowledgeable about the HP, would this arrangement make sense in a room with a 7' ceiling?

The lower the ceiling the lower the angle from the projector to your eye - thus more gain.

Ken
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post #184 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:20 PM
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Hey guys,

Quote:


Ericglo, thanks for your educated guess! After a long flight, I just got back to Taiwan.

Allow me to read through the mails and this long post, before I can answer the questions.

Stay tuned.

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post #185 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:24 PM
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Thanks for the reply, Ken, but I am still a bit unclear what the ramifications on the HP would be under these circumstances. Right now, in my 7' high theater, I have my H-79 mounted at 6' and I am getting plenty of gain in my seating position (MUCH brighter than my Firehawk! - I've tested them on a split screen arrangement). Assuming that I mounted the HD81 in the same spot, tilted the projector and screen as per MrWiggles idea (thanks, MrWiggles!), would the gain from the High Power increase, decrease, or remain the same from my plain vanilla H-79 setup? The only thing I would be changing is the tilt on the HD-81 and the corresponding tilt of the screen.

Edit: I know this may seem off topic, but it also might be valuable to a lot of people trying to figure a way to use the HD-81 in a low ceiling environment.

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post #186 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Who is trying to vilfying optoma ?"

I guess that was too strong a word.

As QQQ alluded to, many people's tone was rather angry, which is not nice for the recipient, and will in the best case be ignored and at worst drive away the bearer of the infornmation we all thirst after.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my tone wasn't angry, just... disappointed. Hopefully the clever solution MrWiggles posted will be field-tested by someone with 8' ceilings and 20' throw like yours truly, because (except for the AWOL lens shift) the H81 may be just the projector I've been waiting for.


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post #187 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 05:34 PM
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Agreed...disappointment, not anger. And I still have hope using MrWiggles' tilt idea!

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post #188 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

...for a 10K PJ there should be lens shift (especialy in 2006)...

Agreed, or put another way, at this price point, I would prefer not to have to make such a big compromise in installation flexibility & even resale value (what happens when Optoma releases the "HD82" that includes lens shift ?)

I think that, because the HD81 does not allow something like a HighPower to be used optimally, one can argue that it will also indirectly compromise available ANSI contrast, ie: what could be achieved with a HighPower relative to less directional screens when used in a less than ideal rooms. (I have pretty much ruled out use of angular reflective screens such as Grayhawk, Firehawk, etc. due to cost, hot-spotting, & sparklies).

Brent
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post #189 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 08:03 PM
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Bob,

If you put the HD81 lens in the same position as your H79 and your eye in the same position as well then the gain would be identical. The HP only cares about this eye to lens angle.

Ken
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post #190 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 08:19 PM
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Did some more measuring today, and I think this pj will work in my HT as is....barely.


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post #191 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 08:30 PM
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Quote:


If you put the HD81 lens in the same position as your H79 and your eye in the same position as well then the gain would be identical. The HP only cares about this eye to lens angle.

Ok, gotcha...I was overthinking the angles, but now I understand..

Thanks, Ken!

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post #192 of 4812 Old 01-10-2006, 11:56 PM
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I have a 8' ceiling and it looks like I should be able to go with a 106" dia. I wonder how it will look on a Da-lite HCMW or a HCCV screen. One good thing that it will have a IRIS so I could dial in more contrast and open it up as the lamp ages. One thing I would like to know is the firmware a big improvement over the H76,7,8,9 series projectors, hopefully it will be. Tom, Darin and anybody else that seen it how does it sync between other sources and aspects ratios? Hopefully a lot faster!!! It does have a processor in line so it should. And hopefully H81 and there next HT designed case, won't have the lamp issues the H76,7,8,9 series does. As far as deep colors go I agree with Tom it is one of best line of projectors there.

The HT1100 I had a hell of a offset as well. At least it was not hanging as low as my H77 is now. I prefer a fixed offset for my 12X35X8 room. Yes it would be nice if it did not have as much of a fixed offset. I do agree with Optoma in wanting get something out on the market to compete with Sony.

I think they will be working on a HT case with either a lens-shift or a more install friendly fixed lens offset unit in the near future if they are not already.

Dale
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post #193 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 12:34 AM
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How much would the lens shift cost to implement? 2k 3k???

Ben

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post #194 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post



I've been giving MrWiggles' idea some thought, but I wonder what implications this arrangement would have on a Da-Lite High Power. Since I recently discovered how wonderful a screen the HP is, I would like to work its usage into such a setup. Darin or anyone else knowledgeable about the HP, would this arrangement make sense in a room with a 7' ceiling?

The gentleman whose theater Mr Wigggles showed does use the high power screen with that setup. I have been there and it looks great

Dan
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post #195 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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For those that could not make it, here are some photos of the HD81 demo (from a Japanese website ) with the clips Optoma used:

First demo clip is Chronicle of Narnia:



The one following it is Over the Hedge:



And the third one is Fastest Indian :

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post #196 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digital_dilemma View Post

I can assure you that thin skinned has nothing to do with it. The 60 or so posters (so far) to this site represent what.. 1/10th of 1% of target market in the U.S. ? Maybe?

He has bigger fish to fry than to spend his time here when there are marketing plans to develop, meetings with department heads, bankers, government officials, lobbyists, patent attorneys, distributors, sub-contractors, etc. Be thankful he provided what he has.



Thanks for missing my point, wide by about a mile

QQQ - truer words were never spoken - TI just got spanked by Sony, dating back to CEDIA where the pre-show rumors made them do a mad scramble to get *any* 1080p 1 chippers shown there (only TI had a prototype up and running at all). I applaud all the DLP mfrs for doing whatever they can to get 1x1080 DLP to market soon, at great prices.

And Noah - I have to take exception to your comment *if* you're referring to me. I did nothing approximating bashing and simply pointed out that the fixed offset wouldn't work for me (sadly!) Others may have been harsher, though I still don't think they were bashing.

TM

PS - Tzung - PHENOMENAL images, thanks!

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post #197 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 07:08 AM
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I have one big question -

WHEN?

I am hoping a for something a little more specific than a "Q" number...

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post #198 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Certainly this projector will most likely work ( offset wise anyway ) anywhere an HT1000 / 1100 does.

Tom - when you get one of these I'd love to drop on by and check it out!!!


Yeah it will work just like any HT1000 or Infocus or any of the past PJ's we were using. 27% is actually a nice easy offset. That's only 14" above the screen for me.

The demo I saw was excellent best thing at the show, wait till they add the Iris.

Speaking of Iris I know Optoma has a fixed Iris in the H79. I never thought to ask if they worked out a more closed down fixed Iris for the H81 CES machine?

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post #199 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 09:03 AM
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Hi all,

I was able to see the HD81 at CES last weekend and was very impressed. It was one of my personal best-of-show products. I was particularly impressed at the light output on such a large screen which allowed the PJ to overcome noticeable light bleed in the lower right corner even on moderately bright scenes. This thing should be excellent for larger screen installations where the lens shift and throw are not showstoppers. Of course, it's not certain how well this brightness will hold up after calibration.

For the record I have the 60" Sony RP SXRD and felt that the overall smoothness of the image from the HD81 was competitive with what I see at home, which is something that I could never say about the 1080p DLP RPs (the wobulated ones). The resolution actually appeared to be higher than my Sony despite the equivalent panel resolutions, likely due to better optics, slight misconvergence of the 3 panels on the Sony, or simply better source material. While shadow detail appeared to be similar to my SXRD, I was unable to evaluate the last little iota due to the aforementioned light bleed.

I wish I could have compared the HD81 with the Ruby but Sony seemed to prefer pushing products that no consumer can currently or would ever buy (PS3, Blu-ray, and 4k digital cinema projectors). I understand the desire to build excitement for new things, but to basically ignore significant chunks of your available product line....? IMO Panasonic killed Sony in this regard. But that's a rant for another thread...

FWIW, I also really liked the BigVizion 1080p 100" display out front. I think that's a great solution for (deep-pocketed) people who want that size screen but don't want to watch TV in a cave. It pretty much needs to be recessed into custom cabinetry, but at the price point they're talking about, most people will be building custom cabinets anyway. From what I saw it was the best way to get a 100" high quality image in a non-light-controlled room (better than black screen, 100+" plasmas, or an RP setup using a recessed short-throw FP). Panny's 103" plasma prototype was amazing for it's size, but when can you buy one and how much are you going to pay (and likely get lower contrast)? I don't know how large the market for BigVizion is, but it's something of a singular product (as far as I know). I do think that the cost will need to fall quite a bit ultimately to get any level of significant volume (probably to ~$10k for the 100") but for now Optoma can reap the rewards of being the only game in town. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else follow Optoma's lead here. Infocus already tried something similar in RPTVs so they have the technical competence.

Sorry to go a little OT there at the end but I guess it is somewhat related.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Alan
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post #200 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 09:34 AM
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Alan,

Thanks for your comments. To clarify, when you say "light bleed" you are talking about light entering the viewing room at the show not light bleed in the image itself, correct?

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post #201 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWigggles View Post

Alan,

Thanks for your comments. To clarify, when you say "light bleed" you are talking about light entering the viewing room at the show not light bleed in the image itself, correct?

-Mr. Wigggles

Mr. Wiggles,

That's correct. The room was pretty well blacked out, but the doorway was allowing some ambient light from the show to fall directly on the lower right half of the screen. Even though it wasn't a great deal of light, I was still very impressed by how the PJ managed to overcome it. Basically, when the clips started, it went from being very obvious to being virtually unnoticeable. It was still there if you wanted to look for it, but wasn't very intrusive at all for casual viewing. This really caught my attention because of the screen size which I think was somewhere around 120 - 140" (I'm not really good at estimating sizes, but it was definitely a larger screen than what I see in most HT store FP setups - 100 or 110" usually).


The price for this level of brightness may be elevated blacks but, as noted, I was unable to really check this due to the slight ambient light. In any event, it's easy to reduce the light output if necessary. By contrast (no pun intended) the Sharp 20000 demo seemed just slightly "faded" even though it was in a completely light controlled room (there were a fair amount of LEDs on equipment and whatnot however, so there was a tiny bit of ambient there as well). It's not my intent to bag on the Sharp since I was comparing the machines under show conditions which were far from ideal. I just felt that of the two *demos* the Optoma had just a bit more attractive image. This might very well not be the case in a fully light controlled, fully calibrated shootout with production units.

Alan
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post #202 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 11:58 AM
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Alan, the Bigvizion is unique. I saw Troy on that at the factory in a room that had fluorescent lights, contrast and blacks were still there.

The H81 was tuned for 65k by TzungILin which is why brightness was down to 900lumens. First thing I talked about was who ever did the tuning did a bang up job. Didn't you like the colors/ flesh tones especially? Even with it being so bright it didn't disappoint me when I was looking for scenes with dark blacks.

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post #203 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanM View Post

Hi all,
I wish I could have compared the HD81 with the Ruby but Sony seemed to prefer pushing products that no consumer can currently or would ever buy (PS3, Blu-ray, and 4k digital cinema projectors). I understand the desire to build excitement for new things, but to basically ignore significant chunks of your available product line....?
Alan

Agree. What were they thinking.

I actually did try to compare the HD81 which I saw on Saturday and then headed down to the Forum shops at Caesars to check out the Ruby the next day. It felt like a spotlight was shinning into the room where they hung the Ruby. Unwatchable. Too bad those people didn't take the time to hook it up in the qualia004 room since they said they got it 2 days before. It would have been a successful trip to CES and an eye candy experience to compare the ruby where they had the blu-ray demo in the qualia room to the 1080p loop the HD81 was showing.

On the HD81, one thing I notice was the Red feathers of the arrows in the narnia clip were orange-red bias instead of deep red like in the signature theaters where I saw the movie or on good g90 or 9501lc. I'm sure a good CC10 filter will help the reds a little. The Qualia they demoed had nicer reds and more to my liking. Fwiw, I would be very happy with either one, especially if the Ruby is better than what I saw on the qualia.
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post #204 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 12:44 PM
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They were also showing the slim depth 55" SXRD RPTV and 1080p LCD flat panels. Those were significant intros as well.

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post #205 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 12:50 PM
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"Speaking of Iris I know Optoma has a fixed Iris in the H79. I never thought to ask if they worked out a more closed down fixed Iris for the H81 CES machine? "

I got my question answered by Wing. The H81 at CES was wide open, they didn't have time to add a fixed Iris. So things can only get allot better with the upcoming adjustable Iris. The demo still had deep blacks for no Iris. If you want the story on how soon. They could have machines ready to go one month after they get the chips. Time line is Ti may send the chips in March but they're not always on time like they say.

As you know they chose the 910 light engine for speed and to keep the price low. It's easier and cheaper to use a machine which they already have the tooling for. This model fit the bill because of the larger lens and it's set for the brighter bulb. The Iris will tame it down for better HT usage, expect some nice high contrast on the final machine. Fan sound will be lowered as much as they can. At stock the 910 is at 27db.

I asked why not use the H79's case, no go the lens is too small for the larger chip. Probably the next 1080p model will have all the goodies. The new combo replacing the H79 will be out much sooner, H7300. I'm in for one of the first available. I mainly want to test the Gennum deinterlacer scaler box with the HQV disc and torture scenes.

That's a DC3 w/Gennum box for $5999msrp, a deal.

Tom/guitarman
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post #206 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 02:17 PM
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Tom I have the same size screen. I too would like to know how far back the PJ will be.

Al
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post #207 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 03:02 PM
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It works for us.

Per Hifiguy -

"So the distance for a 92" wide screen would be 165.6" to 202.4". That translates to between 13.8' and 16.87', and seems pretty flexible to me"

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post #208 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 04:01 PM
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I'm curious about something. Why so much concern over making the proj. work with a High Power (though it's nice to know it will)? Unless you are already using one and are committed or just want to know in general, I would think the High Power would not be a prime choice for the HD81, given its already nice light output. Wouldn't a less odd-install-dependant screen with other good imaging characteristics be a better choice than an HP which is usually (AFAIK) for light-challenged Ruby types? Like I said, just curious, as I would not default to HP for this machine, but to something with less gain and more contrast or other traits.

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post #209 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 04:12 PM
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Tzung,

A search on CNET came up with this link:

http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/p...0059457,00.htm

where the author says the chip is still a wobulated version. You might want to shoot him an email to let him get his story straight.

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post #210 of 4812 Old 01-11-2006, 04:18 PM
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flint350,
Yeah, good question. I have been wondering why all the hubbub about HighPower when this thing seemingly doesn't need it. As a matter of fact, it may be the last thing you would want to pair it with. Even though the show version didn' t have the iris yet, it seems like 900 lumens with a pretty well setup machine ought to have you looking for a low or unity gain screen, or at least reaching for a lower iris setting when it comes out. Maybe a 1.3 or 1.5 gain angular reflective screen, just to cut down a little on light scatter from the side walls and floor/ceiling by narrowing the viewing cone a little.

You have to hand it to Venus de Milo..., otherwise she would starve.

Computers have abundant memory, but no imagination.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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