The official Ruby Calibration Q/A Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 08:31 AM
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Well, using your analogy, it's more like buying last year's model car for more money than this year's similar model that has some new features that you wish you had, but the dealer tells you that you're SOL and to buy the following year's model. If car makers did that, they'd never sell their left over inventory for sure. Heck, they may not sell this year's either if customers know that they can get a better car for less in under a year.

When I ordered the Pearl wasn't out yet and I had no way to really compare the two. I thought at the time that the Ruby would be worth the extra price. I still haven't seen a Pearl, but am pretty sure that the difference might NOT be worth it based on reviews. Fortunately, the street price difference was closer to $3K, so it's not enough to give me buyers remorse. I have a 123" diagonal HiPower and am happy with the Ruby. I'm just NOT happy with Sony's response, not giving us 1080p24/48 over HDMI. That sucks because it just leaves the DVI to eliminate judder and it's not as good as HDMI.

Regarding the VP50, it sounds like you're sending a 1080p60 signal via HDMI and consider it a big improvement. Can you elaborate on what's better since you're still getting judder at 60Hz. Have you tried using 48Hz via DVI? If so, what are your impressions and why didn't you stick with that set up to get rid of judder?

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post #362 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 09:05 AM
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Loving DVD, I have enjoyed your posts and find them to be straight forward and highly educational. I hope you don't mind me asking the questions below but it appears that you are using equipment that I would like to purchase.

What brand and model of equipment do you use to measure IRE, color, light on your projector/screen? How do you like it? Would you get a different model and brand given what you know now; if so for what reason?
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post #363 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post


When I ordered the Pearl wasn't out yet and I had no way to really compare the two. I thought at the time that the Ruby would be worth the extra price. I still haven't seen a Pearl, but am pretty sure that the difference might NOT be worth it based on reviews. Fortunately, the street price difference was closer to $3K, so it's not enough to give me buyers remorse. I have a 123" diagonal HiPower and am happy with the Ruby. I'm just NOT happy with Sony's response, not giving us 1080p24/48 over HDMI. That sucks because it just leaves the DVI to eliminate judder and it's not as good as HDMI.

Regarding the VP50, it sounds like you're sending a 1080p60 signal via HDMI and consider it a big improvement. Can you elaborate on what's better since you're still getting judder at 60Hz. Have you tried using 48Hz via DVI? If so, what are your impressions and why didn't you stick with that set up to get rid of judder?

I'm in the SAME Boat with AVR's. I want to update my AVR to have HDMI switching -- ONLY so I can take the Lossless audio from High-Def DVD players and decode it with PCM over HDMI. I have been a LONG TIME Lexicon User. What I tried to do as a lower cost interim [aka planned Obsolescence] is buy a Denon 2307CI. Fantastic Box for the money. I considered it as DISPOSABLE. I figured I needed to wait until CES in January to see if Lexicon announces a new AVR Pre-Pro that has all the features I want. They cost even more than a RUBY - So I will not buy until I know it will last a number of years. But after using the Denon for a MONTH - I sold it yesterday. Even the PCM over HDMI audio was not as good as my DTS audio from High-Def DVD to current Lexicon. I can't buy the current Lexicon MC-12HD - because their HDMI ports do not support 1080p. So I just have to wait.

As for now with the Ruby - I take my 1080i sources and the VP50 scales them to 1080p. I watched 1080i into the Ruby for a month before the VP50 showed up. I didn't expect that much improvement going from 1080i to 1080p - but IT WAS AWESOME.

As for Judder. It must be there - because to get to 1080p/60 - they have to be doing a 3:2 pulldown. BUT I HAVE YET TO SEE IT with my EYES. I do have 1080p/24 sources coming. DVDO will support 1080p/24 to 1080p/48 in their next upgrade of FW. Until I get my 1080p24 source and until I get a DVDO FW upgrade - I can not tell you if it is better than what I already have. SO FAR I CAN'T SEE JUDDER - unless of course I use the DVDO test disk which forces a judder scene on the screen.
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post #364 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmback View Post

Loving DVD, I have enjoyed your posts and find them to be straight forward and highly educational. I hope you don't mind me asking the questions below but it appears that you are using equipment that I would like to purchase.

What brand and model of equipment do you use to measure IRE, color, light on your projector/screen? How do you like it? Would you get a different model and brand given what you know now; if so for what reason?

Thanks for the compliment. I use ColorFacts 6.0 with the EyeOne beamer and SpyderTV meters. I use the EyeOne to "train" the SpyderTV meter. Then use the SpyderTV meter for all measurements.

This works out great because then I get the color accuracy of the EyeOne but the low level light readings and repeatability that the SpyderTV provides. Plus it is sooo much faster doing calibration without having to stop and take dark readings.

This has enabled me to get accurate grayscale measurements down all the way at just 5 IRE, and typically I've been able to calibrate the Ruby at 5 IRE D65 with a dE of about 8 while having a dE of 0-3 from 10-100. Pretty sweet.

My only complaint - and it is a major one - is that I simply cannot get accurate measurements when measuing primaries and secondaries. My CIE chart always has green way short.

Despite numerous postings on the subject over the past three years, and others saying they use this same equipment to measure accurate primaries, I still cannot figure out what why I cannot get valid measurements in this area. And I know its not the pj as my Sharp 10K measured the same way. And I know its not the screen because measurements I take directly from the pj are the same way...

Would I do it again? Well I bought CF at a time when it was MUCH cheaper and it turned out to be a great investment. I tweak and tune frequently and it wouldn't be priactical (or nearly as much fun!) to have someone else coming out to calibrate the unit. That being said, I probably would have hesitation if I had to pay a few grand for these tools today. HTH.
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post #365 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 09:29 AM
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I am not regretting getting a ruby in May. I have it paired with a crystalio II and with this combo I have a DLP looking picture (sharp and vivid)... I still love my ruby and would not trade it in for a pearl or anything else at the moment...

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post #366 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 09:37 AM
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Joe

I am pairing the Crystallio 3800 with the ruby as well. What a picture.
I know the Pearl has devalued our Ruby but the best way to get your moneys worth is keep the Ruby. The picture it puts out is still first class and i do not regret the purchase.
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post #367 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am not regretting getting a ruby in May. I have it paired with a crystalio II and with this combo I have a DLP looking picture (sharp and vivid)... I still love my ruby and would not trade it in for a pearl or anything else at the moment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Joe

I am pairing the Crystallio 3800 with the ruby as well. What a picture.
I know the Pearl has devalued our Ruby but the best way to get your moneys worth is keep the Ruby. The picture it puts out is still first class and i do not regret the purchase.

Steve - I agree with Joe and Alan
- I don't think it matters what VP you use with your Ruby
- but using any GOOD VP will make your LOVE YOUR Ruby MORE!
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post #368 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks for the compliment. I use ColorFacts 6.0 with the EyeOne beamer and SpyderTV meters. I use the EyeOne to "train" the SpyderTV meter. Then use the SpyderTV meter for all measurements.

This works out great because then I get the color accuracy of the EyeOne but the low level light readings and repeatability that the SpyderTV provides. Plus it is sooo much faster doing calibration without having to stop and take dark readings.

This has enabled me to get accurate grayscale measurements down all the way at just 5 IRE, and typically I've been able to calibrate the Ruby at 5 IRE D65 with a dE of about 8 while having a dE of 0-3 from 10-100. Pretty sweet.

My only complaint - and it is a major one - is that I simply cannot get accurate measurements when measuing primaries and secondaries. My CIE chart always has green way short.

Despite numerous postings on the subject over the past three years, and others saying they use this same equipment to measure accurate primaries, I still cannot figure out what why I cannot get valid measurements in this area. And I know its not the pj as my Sharp 10K measured the same way. And I know its not the screen because measurements I take directly from the pj are the same way...

Would I do it again? Well I bought CF at a time when it was MUCH cheaper and it turned out to be a great investment. I tweak and tune frequently and it wouldn't be priactical (or nearly as much fun!) to have someone else coming out to calibrate the unit. That being said, I probably would have hesitation if I had to pay a few grand for these tools today. HTH.


How valuable is the ColorFacts? Worth the money? It is much more expensive that just the SpiderTV package.
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post #369 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 12:48 PM
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Yes Alan, I think the crystalio II has helped produce the absolute BEST picture I have seen on my ruby. If it's not broke don't fix it! I won't change a thing for a long time!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

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post #370 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Steve - I agree with Joe and Alan
- I don't think it matters what VP you use with your Ruby
- but using any GOOD VP will make your LOVE YOUR Ruby MORE!

Yeah, but I was only looking to spend the extra money on a VP if it removed the judder. I'm sure that the 1080i to 1080p60 provides some improvement, but not sure if it's worth the expense. If I could eliminate that judder on horizontal pans, then it would be worth it. I wish I could test drive one before buying.

As for the Ruby, I do love the picture and plan to keep it for a long time. I have peace of mind with the 6 years of warranty and 3 year bulb warranty too. With my setup and screen, it's plenty bright. I find that it's sharp and vivid enough for my taste and old eyes. I don't really have any complaints except for lack of 24/48 support over HDMI.

As for the audio side, I have a Lexicon MC-1 and love Logic7. I'm not really missing TrueHD or other lossless audio. At some point, I'll upgrade my audio processer for audio over HDMI. Until then, I'm happy with my old Lexicon. It was on the expensive side when new, but has certainly been a great purchase and worth every penny spent for years of enjoyment. I think that I'll be able to say the say thing for the Ruby in years to come.

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post #371 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 01:31 PM
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For what its worth I have spent a lot of time with the Lumagen set to 48 with the Ruby. I just cannot see it or at least enough to make it worth while. Even with BD and HD DVD it jumps track once in a while and you have to stop and restart the source to get it back in sync. For me its not worth the aggravation. I think once we get native 108024 from BD and HD DVD hopefully it will be far more stable. Running 60hz looks great to me.
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post #372 of 615 Old 11-09-2006, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Yeah, but I was only looking to spend the extra money on a VP if it removed the judder. I'm sure that the 1080i to 1080p60 provides some improvement, but not sure if it's worth the expense. If I could eliminate that judder on horizontal pans, then it would be worth it. I wish I could test drive one before buying.

As for the Ruby, I do love the picture and plan to keep it for a long time. I have peace of mind with the 6 years of warranty and 3 year bulb warranty too. With my setup and screen, it's plenty bright. I find that it's sharp and vivid enough for my taste and old eyes. I don't really have any complaints except for lack of 24/48 support over HDMI.

As for the audio side, I have a Lexicon MC-1 and love Logic7. I'm not really missing TrueHD or other lossless audio. At some point, I'll upgrade my audio processer for audio over HDMI. Until then, I'm happy with my old Lexicon. It was on the expensive side when new, but has certainly been a great purchase and worth every penny spent for years of enjoyment. I think that I'll be able to say the say thing for the Ruby in years to come.

I could be wrong - but I BELIEVE - DVDO has a 30 day SATISFACTION Guarantee. You can buy it and return it for full credit within the 30 days. That is the best drive-one option I think there is. You could talk to DVDO and ask them about upcoming FW updates that can help us Ruby Owners. They MIGHT TELL you what is coming down the road.

I have the same Lexicon and I thought the DENON would open a door for me without waiting for Lexicon's NEXT MC-12HD Version 2.x???

But the DENON could not keep up with the old buy Lexicon. I sold it - only cost me $100 to try it [GRIN]!
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post #373 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Hi Steve:

I just BOUGHT my Ruby in September. I could have bought the Pearl at the same time. I choose the Ruby over the Pearl because of a brighter picture.

{SNIP}

You felt the Ruby would be BRIGHTER than the Pearl, despite having a higher lumen rating?

Have I missed a review somewhere that indicates that is the case post-calibration or something?

-Steve
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post #374 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Well, using your analogy, it's more like buying last year's model car for more money than this year's similar model that has some new features that you wish you had, but the dealer tells you that you're SOL and to buy the following year's model. If car makers did that, they'd never sell their left over inventory for sure. Heck, they may not sell this year's either if customers know that they can get a better car for less in under a year.

When I ordered the Pearl wasn't out yet and I had no way to really compare the two. I thought at the time that the Ruby would be worth the extra price. I still haven't seen a Pearl, but am pretty sure that the difference might NOT be worth it based on reviews. Fortunately, the street price difference was closer to $3K, so it's not enough to give me buyers remorse. I have a 123" diagonal HiPower and am happy with the Ruby. I'm just NOT happy with Sony's response, not giving us 1080p24/48 over HDMI. That sucks because it just leaves the DVI to eliminate judder and it's not as good as HDMI.

Regarding the VP50, it sounds like you're sending a 1080p60 signal via HDMI and consider it a big improvement. Can you elaborate on what's better since you're still getting judder at 60Hz. Have you tried using 48Hz via DVI? If so, what are your impressions and why didn't you stick with that set up to get rid of judder?

The car analogy is nice, but consumer electronics are a beast unto themselves.

One had to only watch Sony release the Ruby after teh $30K Qualia to realize that ordering something that you feel would be "worth the extra price" without seeing the latest/greatest/cheaper new model is a risk.

That having been said, I'm glad you are enjoying your Ruby. I think it's a fantastic unit.

-Steve
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post #375 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

You felt the Ruby would be BRIGHTER than the Pearl, despite having a higher lumen rating?

Have I missed a review somewhere that indicates that is the case post-calibration or something?

I don't remember what I was looking at for data at the time.

But it is hard to understand how a 200 watt bulb can be brighter than a 400 watt bulb.

But now it doesn't matter - because I'm not changing out my Ruby.
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post #376 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 07:23 AM
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How can DVI look worse? They're both digital inputs. Does the Ruby do extra processing on the HDMI signal to make it look better (and doesn't do it for DVI)?

I also saw a difference in detail when moving from HDMI to DVI, but figured it was because I hadn't set my Lumagen up properly. The DVI input looks fuzzy on the 1 pixel wide test patterns, almost as if it's going through a AD / DA conversion. Could it be a timing problem?

 

 

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post #377 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 07:27 AM
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I have been using DVI with no trouble. Last night I switched to HDMI and visually could not see a difference. Ill have to throw up some test patterns once we the get the Joe Kane test discs this coming week on Hi Def. Interesting.
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post #378 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I have been using DVI with no trouble. Last night I switched to HDMI and visually could not see a difference. Ill have to throw up some test patterns once we the get the Joe Kane test discs this coming week on Hi Def. Interesting.

Alan - are you getting the Joe Kane disc ahead of everyone else [GRIN]?

Way to go!
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post #379 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 08:48 AM
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Guys, still no news on how to correct the convergence of the panels on the Ruby ?

Don't piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining !
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post #380 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 08:52 AM
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Guys, still no news on how to correct the convergence of the panels on the Ruby ?

I asked the question awhile back and got the answer ---

No Way Jose!
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post #381 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Joe

I am pairing the Crystallio 3800 with the ruby as well. What a picture.
I know the Pearl has devalued our Ruby but the best way to get your moneys worth is keep the Ruby. The picture it puts out is still first class and i do not regret the purchase.

Alan,
It looks like UPS lost my Ruby. I really loved the smooth "non-digital" look that I got from the Ruby so I'm assuming that a 3 chip DLP would not be for me. What would your recommendation be for a replacement, another Ruby or a Pearl?

Dave
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post #382 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

I asked the question awhile back and got the answer ---

No Way Jose!

It can be done... it is in the service menu, the question is where...

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post #383 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 12:06 PM
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It can be done... it is in the service menu, the question is where...

I hope you are 100% RIGHT and I am 100% WRONG.

I think that is ONLY TRUE for the Pearl!

How do you even get to the SERVICE Menu on a Ruby?
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post #384 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

Alan,
It looks like UPS lost my Ruby. I really loved the smooth "non-digital" look that I got from the Ruby so I'm assuming that a 3 chip DLP would not be for me. What would your recommendation be for a replacement, another Ruby or a Pearl?

Dave


I hope you are covered by insurance.

If I had to make a choice right now it would most likely go to the Pearl. I would have a hard time justifying the price difference. The JVC should be hitting soon as well and would be another solid contender to consider.
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post #385 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

I hope you are 100% RIGHT and I am 100% WRONG.

I think that is ONLY TRUE for the Pearl!

How do you even get to the SERVICE Menu on a Ruby?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6608790

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post #386 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BangoO View Post

left left up enter

Well Thank You for that Tidbit [GRIN]!

If it is like my SONY DHG-HDD500 DVR - Then you have to enter a 6 or 7 digit code.

We need to buy some beers for a service Tech at a Sony Repair Facility.
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post #387 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 01:18 PM
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I agree with Alan, I have not been able to see a difference betweeen the DVI and HDMI input. I will have to do some testing as well. And stevenjw, I could not watch my ruby without my crystalio II now. It does make that big enough difference. All the adjustments I can do to the picture make it well worth it. And as far as 48hz versus 60hz, I agree with Alan again and found it hard to tell that much difference in the picture both with the VP50 and Lumagen HDQ...

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post #388 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

I don't remember what I was looking at for data at the time.

But it is hard to understand how a 200 watt bulb can be brighter than a 400 watt bulb.

But now it doesn't matter - because I'm not changing out my Ruby.

Different bulb chemistries:

Ruby = 400W Xenon = 800 lumens

Pearl = 200W UHP = 900 lumens

Did you even compare specs?

-Steve
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post #389 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 03:19 PM
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Most would agree the Xenon lamp helps produce the best color though... I still would not trade my ruby out over 100 lumens... But that's just me...

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
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post #390 of 615 Old 11-10-2006, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BangoO View Post

It can be done... it is in the service menu, the question is where...

No it can't be done in the service menu.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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