H79--Very Dim at Only 350 Hrs. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 10:59 AM
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What I really doubt is that Optoma will offer replacement bulbs to anyone but the most severe, clear-cut, darker than Hades bulbs in the first few hundred hours. Have you people ever called Optoma support? Not the friendliest bunch!

My H79 is at 300 hours and while probably dimmer than new, it still throws a superb picture on econo-mode on a unity-gain 106" screen from 16 feet back.

Hopefully this will remain the case. My other PJ is an old Proxima business LCD which is now used for video games and TV duties. 2200 hours on the bulb and going strong! I don't dream to achieve this kind of numbers on the H79 but I plan to run it on bright mode after the first 500 hours and if I get 1000 good hours out of a bulb I'll be more than happy.
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post #92 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Teller View Post

I've no doubt the people here have real problems with dimming. But realistically, we are only getting information from fewer than 20 people! I am sure there have been many more than 20 H78DC3's and H79's sold and if every single one of them were dimming by as much as half after only 300 hours, I think we would have seen a thread like this one much sooner and with many more people complaining.

I think that not so many projector owners are really hanging around these forums, and many of them who do are just browsing these forums without actually posting on these threads.

But still i think we can draw some conclusions here. What are chances that these peoples here posting about dimming problems, would all have got bad batch projector, and those only couple of peoples not having problems have got normal quality projectors?
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post #93 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 12:14 PM
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Hi Jon,

I do hope you are right and it is not a general problem.
But given that out of thousands of owners only about a hundred or so (I guess) are posting here then 20 machines with bad bulbs would be to much for my taste. Maybe we should take a poll? Maybe it's only 5 out of 500?

Guenther

EDIt: Oops, I overlooked the previous posting which states almost the same...
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post #94 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 03:39 PM
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Glenn D did the calibration on my h79. it was very dim when he checked it. it is a 7ftl at 500 hours. He did a nice calibraition on it for what he was working with. Who do I contact at optoma for a new bulb? Also Glenn, can you email the calibration report(s)? jim@numberonefunding.com

Thanks
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post #95 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 05:20 PM
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It would be good to hear from others who aren't experiencing any problems, hence the poll would be a great idea.

It's interesting, in England, on avforums, the consensus by most seems to be that the H79 is better than the SP7210. Whereas, over here it seems many feel it is the reverse.
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post #96 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 08:34 PM
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I'm curious. Does anyone know if Optoma has a semi-official position on this? If a customer reports a lamp with 600 hrs. on it that is unwatchably dim, will they replace the bulb?

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post #97 of 296 Old 02-21-2006, 10:27 PM
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My h-78 also seemed to dim far too much after 2-300 hours and I started to get the red/blue flashing light on start up and had to restart the pj 2-3 times....every week or so to the point were at just over 600 hours its barely watchable on a hi power 106" screen...and the red/ blue flashing light thing happens at least every second time you turn it on now.

Had I been using a 0 gain screen, I doubt it would have been bright enough in hi power mode much past 300 hours.

This is not the first thread on this subject either, but I can't remember which thread the other numerous posts are buried in.

This is my third pj, and I never had bulb dimming problems like this after 1100 hours on the other two which were Infocus pj's.

Other than this, this pj is a bargain.
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post #98 of 296 Old 02-22-2006, 02:19 AM
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Earz That's what I am unhappy about. Maybe we should get 3 screens when we buy a known projector that the lamp dims quickly. Then switch out to a higher gain screen when it starts getting dim. Start with a HCCV then a High-Power and finish the lamp off with a Silver Star. A person would have over $5000 in screens alone.

One good thing at least Optoma seems to be heading in the right direction with the next models being brighter. At least by the specs, I guess we will find out just how bright they will be when they are released and we start calibrating them. That is one thing I like about Infocus SP series they have plenty of brightness to play with. You can always tame it down with a filter or with the Iris with upcoming models.

My current H77 is still doing fine at 300hrs I am crossing my fingers and hope they just got a bad batch of lamps.

The only problem I see with a poll would be we would need to vote by total Optoma's owned per voter to make it fair. In which I had 2 that had to be swapped out for because of constant red blinking LED and very low light output. Optoma has always treated me ok though. I do not think people should shy away from the H series because I personally think they are a dam good projector.

I would just like to know what they have found to be the main problem, bad lamp,bad ballast or poor cooling. That is if they have had enough complaints to even look into it. Curious owners would like to know.

Dale
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post #99 of 296 Old 02-22-2006, 05:50 AM
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Hey Dale, any idea how long I should expect to be waiting without a pj if I send this in for the red blinking led?

I already have two screens, not looking to buy a third
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post #100 of 296 Old 02-22-2006, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I'm curious. Does anyone know if Optoma has a semi-official position on this? If a customer reports a lamp with 600 hrs. on it that is unwatchably dim, will they replace the bulb?

I think this is a important comment, Some of us who have the tools should track new projectors over time to see whats normal and if it does what a brand claims so we can help others make the correct choices picking projectors and screens. I am not in any way negative on the H7x line i am more than happy if the second bulb ages like the first one but i now know i was probably looking at 6 ftl at best. I do think we need more info what is normal so if someone clearly has a problem (like 90% down at 300h) he has some ammo to use against a brand to get it replaced. Sofar to me (in europe) optoma has been great as i already stated at the begin of the thread. For new people if you own a good 5.1 setup you need a dB meter i think we can now say if you own a projector get a lux meter they are about $50 for models that are good enough for this and it removes the guessing.

Daniel.

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post #101 of 296 Old 02-22-2006, 10:58 PM
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Earz They usually get them out within 2 days after received. If it is less then 90days old they most likely swap it out. In that case it will go out the following day.

Dale
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post #102 of 296 Old 02-23-2006, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I'm waiting for new replacement unit from Optoma...any day now. Got my fingers (and toes) crossed. Whatever the outcome, I'm saving my "pennies" for a Ruby or a Ruby 2 down the road........for all the money I've spent on this crazy hobby the past 3 years, I could've bought a nice used car, or a boat, or some worthwhile stock in Google
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post #103 of 296 Old 02-23-2006, 03:58 PM
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Are people experiencing dimming problems with their replacement bulbs, too? Or is this a matter of bad bulbs out of the box.

I'm only at 160 hours right now, but I'm concerned about what I'm in for later.

Luck happens when preparation meets opportunity.
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post #104 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Personally I think the talk about my bulb is dim is getting a little goofy. I have an HT1000 (1200hrs) that is at 5ftc and it still looks excellent on the Graywolf and ceiling mounted. The 1200 houred H77's are at 10ftc.
jmo


I have the HT1100 and the lamp has about 1270 hours on it. To my eyes the picture has dimmed significantly. I know the rating is for 2000 hours but I'm starting to feel like it's almost time to swap out that original lamp with a new replacement. Before going down that road (and I have a replacement sitting in a box ready to go) I have a few questions that perhaps those of you with more experience than I can address.


1. Rated lamp life: How realistic is this number coming from the manufacturer? 2000 hours sounds good but if the picture is dim at 1200 plus hours, getting to 2000 before replacing the lamp would be seriously painful.

2. What are the signs that a lamp is ready to be changed - short of a total failure? I'm running the PJ on "normal" so I'm squeezing every lumin I can out of it. I don't see any flicker issues, it's just a very dull picture.

3. I realize that all PJs have some issue re: lamps. With the HT1100 rated at 2000 hours and lamp replacements at $420 each - how does this compare with other PJs.

4. It's starting to look as though, based on my viewing habits, that I'm going to be going through 2 lamps a year. Although in the first month and during install, more stress (on and off) was the rule vs. now since it's final installation.

I don't have a way to measure the actual brightness of the image but the dim picture I have now is starting to drive me nuts. I'm willing to make a change but the hassle factor, and uncertainty about changing it at 1270 hours vs 2000 has stopped me from making the swap.

So, I am very interested in how others here base their decision on what point to pull a lamp and replace with a new one.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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post #105 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azjetski View Post

Earz They usually get them out within 2 days after received. If it is less then 90days old they most likely swap it out. In that case it will go out the following day.

Dale

Thanks for the info Dale, I will give them a call next week.
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post #106 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

kind of stupid of me not todo it will my old bulb but ill do it each 50h with my current bulb and post it here .. as a bonus results from 50h and 80h


50 normal=429L, bright=569L
80 normal=414L, bright=540L

Daniel.


If I'm reading this information correctly, the H79 is rated at 1,100 lumens, but at 50 hours I'll be down to about 570. Should we expect to lose 1/2 the brightness in 50 hours?

It also means that my future theater (127" diagonal 16:9 screen) will have 11 ftL after 50 hours, well below the 16 I was hoping for.

Last question - will the new H81 have the same bulb?

--SimpleTheater

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post #107 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

If I'm reading this information correctly, the H79 is rated at 1,100 lumens, but at 50 hours I'll be down to about 570. Should we expect to lose 1/2 the brightness in 50 hours?

No, it means that 1,100 is marketing speak. From 0 to 50 hrs you are probably just losing 10-30 lumens (in the low end if there is no problem, in the high end if there is).

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence, than it does knowledge. Charles Darwin
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post #108 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

If I'm reading this information correctly, the H79 is rated at 1,100 lumens, but at 50 hours I'll be down to about 570. Should we expect to lose 1/2 the brightness in 50 hours?

No, it means that 1,100 is marketing speak. From 0 to 50 hrs you are probably just losing 10-45 lumens (in the low end if there is no problem, in the high end if there is).

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence, than it does knowledge. Charles Darwin
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post #109 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

But still i think we can draw some conclusions here. What are chances that these peoples here posting about dimming problems, would all have got bad batch projector, and those only couple of peoples not having problems have got normal quality projectors?

I think we can all agree on a few conclusions, including those who love their Optoma's (Sims, Knolls, InFocus, Runco, etc) :

1) Bulb life is GREATLY exagerrated. 3000 hours expected life is not going to happen.

2) Lumen output is exagerrated. Right out of the box, no one is saying the H79 is getting 1000 lumen output in bright mode - I think 850 is the closest I've seen anyone report (that's 15% below advertised).

I wouldn't be surprised to see a class action lawsuit brought some time in the future against all projector companies (assuming the information in this thread is accurate).

--SimpleTheater

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #110 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 10:33 AM
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Lumens are different when you want the PJ tuned for home theater. You could probably get stated specs if you blow the whites out with contrast and white peaking if available. Like the HD72 I'm testing has brilliant color which can blast the white level high to reach it's factory specs.

The HD72 measures 20.45ftc when brand new. I tested it this morning at 100hrs and it measured 17.25ftc. Lumens for these numbers are about 850 vs 750 so it dropped 100lumens in 100hrs. I understand at more mid point hour level the brightness drops at a slower rate. But I'd expect the HD72 to be under 500lumens at 600hrs. These are bright mode measurments, knock off 200lumens when using econo.

The HT1100 user. I tested my HT1000 at 1200hrs and it's at 5ftc which is 2.10lumens. Definitely high power screen for the HT1000 is recommend.

This thread started with a projector that went totally black early on. I figure we all do know that bulbs start dimming from day one, now you're seeing some numbers on how low they can go. I'd say with the H79 you can go to 1200 hours (8ftc) in econo and switch to bright mode for (11ftc). Since brightness falls at a slower point you could squeeze out another 400 or 500hrs before wanting a new bulb. That's not saying you couldn't go longer but I think most would opt to go back to day one levels.

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post #111 of 296 Old 02-24-2006, 11:51 AM
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I have not experienced any brightness drop off outside of the normal bulb dimming with my H79 so far. I have around 200 hours on mine.

Quote:


Bulb life is GREATLY exagerrated. 3000 hours expected life is not going to happen.

I agree.

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post #112 of 296 Old 02-25-2006, 12:15 AM
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I finally figured it out. Optoma only sends the good ones to the bay area. That way they don't get a pissed off customer throwing a H series projector through their window or glass door. Like the old lady in the Discount tire commercial.

That would be funny to see someone heave one through Optoma's door. Yelling out I will not buy another dam lamp.

Dale
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post #113 of 296 Old 02-25-2006, 03:34 AM
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Take a deep breath and repeat after me, 'there's no bulb problems with the H7x series'.
Just keep repeating that until you believe it.
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post #114 of 296 Old 02-25-2006, 05:36 AM
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Maybe I am asking a stupid thing, but could it be possible that the H79 lamp fade is the tradeoff for the silent operation? If the lamp works at higher temperatures, its life gets shorter. Moreover, because of the heat, reflective coatings in the lamp assembly start to deteriorate, too. I noticed this with my Leica slide projector. Raising the fan voltage a bit helped a lot, although resulted in slightly more noise.

Of course, tampering with the fan voltage of a new projector would void warranty. Maybe Optoma could give some control for the user to which way they'd like to go: less noise, or better cooling and longer lamp life.

Does anyone know how the technology is advancing with LED lamps? What are the problems which prevent from using LED lamps in projectors? (uniformity, convergence?).
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post #115 of 296 Old 02-25-2006, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I got my replacement H79 back yesterday. I give some props to Optoma for a quick turn-around time (2 days transit). So far so good......the picture is plasma bright---I guess I got so used to the very dim picture on my previous unit. The one major difference I notice is that now there is a subtle fan noise during operation that I did not notice before....maybe a good sign?
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post #116 of 296 Old 02-25-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSB View Post

Well, I got my replacement H79 back yesterday. I give some props to Optoma for a quick turn-around time (2 days transit). So far so good......the picture is plasma bright---I guess I got so used to the very dim picture on my previous unit. The one major difference I notice is that now there is a subtle fan noise during operation that I did not notice before....maybe a good sign?


PSB did you look and see what firmware was in it yet. Maybe they have change it to C18 and made a fan speed change. It would be great if they did.

Also it is nice seeing a snappy pic of a new Optoma. That's what sold me on it.

Dale
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post #117 of 296 Old 02-26-2006, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

Take a deep breath and repeat after me, 'there's no bulb problems with the H7x series'.
Just keep repeating that until you believe it.

Personally i would repeat there is atleast a problem with the H79 but maybe with all bulb related projectors that are run like this (we know that sim2 for example runs them alot lower). If you read more threads on these topics its clear its a wider problem but almost no trusted data is available.

Nobody including on this thread doubts the numbers we are getting that seem to say 700 at 0 hours and 400 at 500 hours for example.

Daniel.

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post #118 of 296 Old 02-26-2006, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSB View Post

Well, I got my replacement H79 back yesterday. I give some props to Optoma for a quick turn-around time (2 days transit). So far so good......the picture is plasma bright---I guess I got so used to the very dim picture on my previous unit. The one major difference I notice is that now there is a subtle fan noise during operation that I did not notice before....maybe a good sign?

Could you get a lux meter (about $50) and like others track the output over time. Once we get a avg curve we can alteast see when its really different from other machines.

Personally i don't see how fans have effect on bulbs say it runs 30degrees higher inside how would that effect a bulb at much higher temps anyway. I can see other electronics getting in trouble but not the bulb can someone provide some info on this because i think its a redherring.

Daniel.

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post #119 of 296 Old 02-26-2006, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I think we can all agree on a few conclusions, including those who love their Optoma's (Sims, Knolls, InFocus, Runco, etc) :

1) Bulb life is GREATLY exagerrated. 3000 hours expected life is not going to happen.

2) Lumen output is exagerrated. Right out of the box, no one is saying the H79 is getting 1000 lumen output in bright mode - I think 850 is the closest I've seen anyone report (that's 15% below advertised).

--SimpleTheater

I think we can guess on most projectors the starting number at D65 is atleast 25% lower than the output given. Then i think the 50% down point is much closer to 50% of the given time. The way they do this is the ansi number can be 'reached' by putting the projector in ultra bright mode (whitepeaking etc etc) and not anywhere near a mode ready for use. The bulb hour time is probably with a bulb that never shuts down and ran in 1 go not with sessions of 2 to 4 hours (each fireup takes about
30min of a bulb thats about 500h on a 2000h bulb. Last point is that we think linear and they use that fact but its far from linear so best of the bulb is in the first 200h something that we don't expect on a 2000h bulb.

Don't want to go into your law part but you can see how they atleast for us cover their asses.

Daniel.

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post #120 of 296 Old 02-26-2006, 03:55 AM
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Bulb life is shortened if your house loses power suddenly.
Bulb life is shortened if there are A/C fluctuations, high voltages (mine is as high as 126.0 volts) and even A/C RFI issues.

My solution was to install a Tripp-Lite SU1000XL true double conversion power generator for the video power ONLY. (Do not use for audio). I still use a regular power condition after this conversion to isolate the display, Satellite and Dvd player from each other. The audio is feed from fiber-optic cables link so there is complete isolation between the audio and video.

But if the bulb is bad, the bulb is bad. At least I think so. Good luck!
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