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post #181 of 1071 Old 03-24-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honu View Post

Bill my thoughts

I am sure the Optoma will be better
wasnt the HD81 suposed to be around $10,000 or so MSRP ??

and yes I agree that more resolution is always nicer for sure
I think I want to let them come down a little bit before I splurge and my wife would demand it ;

Yes, the MSRP is $10K (according to the thread devoted to it), but folks think the street price will be ~3/4 of that pretty soon. As described to date, it doesn't have all the nice features (e.g., lens shift) that many people want, but the rumors are that it may whenit actually appears. We'll see. And I presume it will be at least a year before Samsung has a 1080p version of the 710.
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post #182 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 12:36 AM
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Tonight I hooked up the HTPC to the 710 via DVI. WOW!!! what a difference!!!

with the right content, DVI is amazing. On DVDs you see every nasty flaw. My old CRT had a way of smoothing out all that crap.

I guess my next big purchase will be the digital Mosquito.

I can't imagine how good HDDVD/Blueray is going to look on this. Especially when Hollywood stops shooing on 35mm.

I looked really hard for the banding reported in the other thread. I think is is just compression artifacts. Compared to all the mosquito noise and ringing, I think the banding is very minor.

If you want to see something really ugly, just look at the low bandwith digital cable channels.

My only real concern are rainbows. I hope I can learn to ignor them.

~Jay
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post #183 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 02:30 AM
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so looking inside the lens the iris inside seems to be part way closed all the time ??
on my other projector I could see it open and close more
changing settings I see in the menu area dont seem to effect this at all
not sure if I am seen it wide open but it appears to be partially closed ?
so part of me wonders if there is a way to get into the service menu and try to do something like the ruby light canon thread and change it ??

so I wonder if anyone can find out and post how to get into the service menu and some info on it once in such as iris control

now I could be seen it wrong but curious what others see ??
or maybe it is open and thats the way it is might have to try to grab a shot of it
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post #184 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 07:10 AM
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If you have 10 bit (10 bits per color per pixel, meaning 30 bits total) processing when 8 bits (8 bits/color/pixel, meaning 24 bits total) are sent, they would perform some type of algorithm in order to scale the 24 bits to 30 bits and to choose a suitable value for the 30 bits. (Or, the processing could be performed from 8 to 10 bits, and the same thing would happen.) I don't think that the bit depth matters much, as 8 bits per color would still give you 16,777,216 (2^24) different color levels. This blocking seems to a function of the machine's processing (including the color wheel) and not any limitation in the bit depth. In other words, upping the bits to 30 won't have a measureable gain.

Bob
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post #185 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 07:30 AM
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The Samsung press release stated:

Quote:
Designed to suit the needs of the home theatre market, Samsung's H710 features a 250W lamp with theatre' and bright' modes to properly illuminate screens from five to ten feet wide and its six-segment colour wheel further minimises visible sequential colour, increases contrast ratio and ensures simulated 10-bit processing.

I wonder if this is related to the issue that some people are seeing.

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has passed.
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post #186 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 08:58 AM
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Hi guys!

I have been very interested in trying to follow your thread. I am building my first HT room and I'm shopping for my first pj.

I am interested in the Samsung 710 and maybe the IN76. Maybe a Panasonic 900 but I think I really would prefer a dlp pj.

You guys are scaring me a little bit with your converstations. Please realize that I am 41 yr old dental hygienist soccer mom with no "electronic" experience at all. I am wondering if all of you Samsung 710 users regret your choice in buying this product due to your DVI issues,etc. I will only be able to use this pj via component at this time. Do you think I can still get a great picture?

I will be using my HT for dvd's and NY Yankee games. My room is total light control. My ceiling height is limited to 7' so the lens shift feature on the 710 really attracts me.

Any advice for this newbie soccer mom would be great. You guys are the best!

Kari
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post #187 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 09:48 AM
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Does the samsung's DVI input expect to receive PC Levels (0-255) or Studio Levels (16-240) or can it select either appropriately? I know the IN76 can choose between the two.

Reason being is that my current projector only accepts PC Levels and I've had issues with HDMI output sources.
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post #188 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 10:02 AM
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Kari,

I think we are just nit-picking, that's what videophiles do. For example if you look at all the complaints about the Ruby you would think that it was an absolute disaster from Sony, yet if you read any review from popular A/V magazines they all praise it is the best projector money can buy, and they call it a bargin at $10,000.

THe Samsung with the right screen, and proper ISF calibration is an absolute steal. IF you were to weigh the plusses vs. the minuses the plethora of posatives would drastically tip the scales.

I was also very worried about DVI performance so I bought a cheap DVI cable to test it before I bought a long cable and switch that I would need to make everything work.

I think DVI was significantly better. As Alan pointed out, digital will highlight any flaws if the source, but with a great source DVI is stunning. HD-DVD and Blueray is just around the corner, great sources are very near.

Last night I spent about an hour looking for the banding that people are complaining about. All I could see was some mosquito noise on Discovery HD and InHD.

If AVS is still offering the Samsung at the introductory price then I don't think you will have any regrets.

~Jay
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post #189 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 10:23 AM
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Kari Ditto Jay

I have only seen the prob twice in 14 hours of watching and each time it was about 1 second ? so far so its not really a prob more a curious annoyance to a otherwise amazing picture
that is how much I have seen it at least ! others maybe more ?
switching the same shows to component to watch only the caribbean show also showed it but I really had to look for it so I think that was just a bad signal and as mentioned the cable box is not the best source all the time

my wife loves the pic and was truly loving it over the other projectors we have tried (we have had 5 in our home this month testing) did a bunch of back and forth with her and she cant believe how much more saturated and rich and 3d the shots are
being from Hawaii watching lost episode when they are walking in that tall grass it is the first time watching that scene that it looks real to me I could not believe how good it reproduced the colors and this is out of the box with just the contrast and brightness adjusted over a PJ I have had for a while and tweaked the heck out of
also its the most quiet one we have tested to date ! and its amazing how much just a touch quieter can make things sound in a room

go for it you will be so happy you did
I am picky super picky but like many I have a budget and am not rich beyond all dreams so I cant just buy a 10 or 20 k PJ or I would and if I did I am sure the pic would be amazing
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post #190 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamull View Post

Hi guys!

I have been very interested in trying to follow your thread. I am building my first HT room and I'm shopping for my first pj.

I am interested in the Samsung 710 and maybe the IN76. Maybe a Panasonic 900 but I think I really would prefer a dlp pj.

You guys are scaring me a little bit with your converstations. Please realize that I am 41 yr old dental hygienist soccer mom with no "electronic" experience at all. I am wondering if all of you Samsung 710 users regret your choice in buying this product due to your DVI issues,etc. I will only be able to use this pj via component at this time. Do you think I can still get a great picture?

I will be using my HT for dvd's and NY Yankee games. My room is total light control. My ceiling height is limited to 7' so the lens shift feature on the 710 really attracts me.

Any advice for this newbie soccer mom would be great. You guys are the best!

Kari

Kari, I've seen the 710AE put through its paces by professional installers and calibrators. They go "hmmm." They go "ahhh." Then they say, "That's really good."

You will love it. I'm thinking of buying one, and I don't even have a room where I can use it!
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post #191 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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Kari, welcome to the forum, my wife and I live in wisconsin now, im originally from Longisland New York so if youre from back east you score points with me lol. I think we are feeling an obligation to try to set your mind at ease because youre wondering if you should make this purchase or not, mine will be arriving this week, do not let what youre hearing here deter you from this great projector, I do some theater installations for friends and family and recently flew to New Jersey to complete a dedicated theater for my brother and his wife, I installed a full basement theater in 3days including audio and mounted a panasonic AE900 projector and it was one of the best lcd projectors ive seen, now with that said I have heard people compare these two projectors (among others) and it was said that the panasonic wasnt even in the same league. Understand this... Joe Kane who is an industry video guru helped develop this projector, his knowledge has resulted in many industry standards one of his famous achievments was when he helped stewart filmscreen develop the material for their now famous studiotek 130 screen fabric so if its good enough for Joe Kane to put his name on then its good enough for me, also realize that the first version of this projector (H700) had a msrp of $10,000 and this new improved version is available at a much lower price so think of this as one of those rare gifts. I also want to add that I myself currently have a hd2+ projector with dvi, it shows a great picuture and I do see the banding at times which I was told way back that it was a limitation of DVI, it doesnt bother me much at all! and I have to emphaze that and its because the scenes where I may see it (not all the time) last mere seconds if that much and I have NEVER had anyone comment or even notice. I think it would be a mistake if you didnt give this thing a chance, dont listen to us complain, we have nothing better to do .
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post #192 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 10:58 AM
 
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I have a favor to ask of you guys/gals, can anyone provide a picture of the mount thats included with the Samsung projector? im making a custom wood platform and I need to know what mount comes with the unit to determine if it will work with what im making, if a picture cant be provided the manufacturer and model # should be fine also...thanks in advance
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post #193 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 11:28 AM
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Here is the mount that was sent with mine.
http://www.mountsandmore.com/Premier...UM-PM1211.html

Brad
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post #194 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 11:34 AM
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Beware, the premiere mount that comes with the pj does not work with the pj out of the box, at least mine didn't. You need two longer screws to bolt the spider legs onto the rear of the unit because the unit has a spacer that insets the threads too deep for the included screws to go down into.

Be prepared to take one of the included screws to the hardware store and get two longer ones with the same thread.

Not a big deal but a little surprise. By the way they are metric screws.
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post #195 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 11:36 AM
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Yes Romy is right I forgot about the longer screws for the front of the projector.

Brad
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post #196 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 11:42 AM
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Jay M are you advocating I pull my HTPC out of the closet? Hmm ... do I want to spend more time playing again????? I guess theatertek is again in my future. What video card do you recommend for DVI. I have a Radeon 9600 in my old htpc.
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post #197 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 11:45 AM
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Kari,

This is a bit redundant to the point that Jay M made but there is not a display device made that doesn't have issues and or trade-offs. If one looks for problems they can always be found, just look critically at a film in the movie theater and you will see many issues. Yet most people can go to the movies and just enjoy the experience. It appears that you have done due diligence by reading what the people here have to say and now is the time to forget looking for fault and to enjoy!
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post #198 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocoloco View Post

Does the samsung's DVI input expect to receive PC Levels (0-255) or Studio Levels (16-240) or can it select either appropriately?

My testing confirms that the Samsung DVI input expects to see studio levels. When fed PC levels, brightness and contrast levels need to altered to compensate (can be stored in a User preset).

Testing notes:
Correct DVI video levels were output from a Sencore VP403 HD generator. PC levels were obtained from a Samsung SIR-T165 HD receiver fed (via FireWire) by a JVC HM-DH30000 D-VHS VCR running the D-Theater version of Digital Video Essentials.


Ken Whitcomb

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post #199 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 12:18 PM
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Is that why the component input is darker at default levels? Or is it unrelated? When I hook up my htpc over DVI does that mean I will have to alter the settings due to pc levels being different?
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post #200 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romy101 View Post

Is that why the component input is darker at default levels? Or is it unrelated?

My component input default also is slightly low. I'll check the service menu when I calibrate Brad's projector tomorrow for component input brightness/contrast offsets.

Quote:
When I hook up my htpc over DVI does that mean I will have to alter the settings due to pc levels being different?

Yes, otherwise the blacks will be crushed.


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post #201 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 12:44 PM
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Ok I got my Stewart Grayhawk RS 83.75" wide in 3 days . Thanks to Jason here at AVS for the great price and service (I had only changed my mind on size about 4 times ) The screen is a real light gray. The screen really helped with the blacks. I was happy with the blacks before with my Studiotek 130 screen, just felt like I was missing something compared to the CRT I had before. I know no screen is going to give me the blacks I got from my CRT but the grayhawk RS really helped. Now I have something in the middle better than the DLP on Studiotek 130 and not quit as good as CRT.

The Grayhawk RS doesn't give up any of the great colors, snap or depth and the whites are still white. Although screen size needs to stay on the smaller size with a negative gain screen.

I will report more after Sunday. Which is the day Ken Whitcomb will come down and calibrate the projector. I cant wait to see the thing after Ken gets done . I know the 710AE is great out of the box, but calibration is the one thing that I can have done to get the most out of the projector. Calibration is just like light control, picking the right screen and calibrating the levels on our audio systems it really something that needs to be done to get the most out of any display devise.


Brad
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post #202 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 12:56 PM
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Ken anyway you can share how to enter the service menu ?

also up above I was curious about the Iris ? if that is what I am seeing when I look into the lens seems like its part way closed ?
curious if there is anyway to open it up more or not ?
and in the service menu what would control that if you know
(curious if it could be like the ruby light canon thread and we can get a touch more brightness out of it)

thanks in advance and if you cant share openly for some reason understand or you could PM me and if you cant share at all no worries
again look forward to reading your thoughts I am really enjoying the pic quality
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post #203 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 01:00 PM
 
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Well thanks to all who responded to my question concerning the mount for the samsung, I wasnt expecting until this week sometime but as it would have it the doorbell just rang and it was fedex with the projector and the mount so I guess I will get to see first hand what this thing looks like, It wont be mounted right away since like I said I have a great projector hanging in the theater (digital projection Ivision HD) and im still working on my custom wood platform to mount the unit so I will just continue to listen to what you guys think of your units, again thanks for the help.
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post #204 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 01:05 PM
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Is there a calibration system like Steve Smallcombe's SMART Calibration System (no longer available) that can be used with the Samsung to achieve levels of calibration beyond the basic setup?

The reason I ask is because I do not live in the U.S., and, over here there are no ISF-certified folks to do the calibration for me.

Thanks.

Manendra

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who hate the Klan
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we don't understand"

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post #205 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honu View Post

Ken, any way you can share how to enter the service menu?

Even though I'm sure this information will get out there eventually, I'm not comfortable with providing the means for someone to potentially screw up their projector.

Quote:
also up above I was curious about the Iris? if that is what I am seeing when I look into the lens seems like its part way closed?
curious if there is anyway to open it up more or not?

This is often refered to as a "cats eye" iris and is fixed.


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post #206 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 01:11 PM
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Ken

ahhh thanks so much
totally respect ya for that and no worries learning a lot about the PJ world coming from plasmas I am having so much fun with this
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post #207 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romy101 View Post

Jay M are you advocating I pull my HTPC out of the closet? Hmm ... do I want to spend more time playing again????? I guess theatertek is again in my future. What video card do you recommend for DVI. I have a Radeon 9600 in my old htpc.

After all that testing you have already done, what's a few more hours??

I believe my HTPC has a Radeon 9600 SE. In my case DVI vs. VGA there is no contest. THe desktop, photos, and Ntest test patterns all look amazing! I actually giggled when I went through the various patterns in Ntest.

I am sort of commited to my MCE HTPC. I just started building a media server and already have over 100 DVDs ripped. The convenience that offers I think will outweigh any benefit that a reference DVD player such as the Oppo may offer.

I had plans on doing some serious comparisons between the Samsung and my 6PG CRT, but the Samsung is so good, I can't wait to take the CRT down and properly mount the Samsung.

I still haven't actually sat down and watched a movie yet... maybe tomorrow.

~Jay
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post #208 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post

Even though I'm sure this information will get out there eventually, I'm not comfortable with providing the means for someone to potentially screw up their projector.


Ken Whitcomb

Ken,
Hasn't that projector already been tweaked to videophile perfection at the factory so that even Joe Kane himself wouldn't need to go into the service menu?

Also... maybe this belongs in it's own thread, but can you explain what the RGB offset settings do?

And using Avia or VE via DVI how do I adjust the Hue?

thanks,
~Jay
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post #209 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post

My testing confirms that the Samsung DVI input expects to see studio levels. When fed PC levels, brightness and contrast levels need to altered to compensate (can be stored in a User preset).

SWEET!!!! Exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks Ken.
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post #210 of 1071 Old 03-25-2006, 02:59 PM
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Just wanted to say thanks for all your reassuring words! This HT experience is all new for me and as you all know-this can be an expensive hobby. I am very excited about our new HT and can't seem to get the contractor's to move fast enough!!

I think I am pretty convinced that the Samsung is the pj I want. Do any of you know how long the intro price is available through AVS? I am hoping to hold off on my purchase a little longer since I'm still under construction.

Anyway, I have found your conversations really fun and I think I am learning alot. Gee, two months ago I didn't know anything at all about HT setup, throw ratio.offset,etc,etc....

Funlvr,
Yes, we are from back east. My husband is a LIslander too(Suffolk Co.) and if 1965 has anything to do with your birthdate you are the same age.

Thanks everyone-I'll keep "listening!"
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