Samsung H710AE??? 4000MRSP - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1071 Old 02-24-2006, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I've just read a review of this Projector on Projectors Central. I had never heard of this one before...While reading the review I almost thought it was a joke, the reviewer seems so impressed, it is almost unbelievable...!

Has anyone seen this PJ in action? What do you think of it? How does it compare to other PJs using the same technology (HD2+)? I think I will be watching closely for info about this one. Even the lens shift seems impressive...unusual for a DLP within this price range!

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post #2 of 1071 Old 02-25-2006, 08:37 AM
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I have seen it and it's awesome. Right out of the box, it looks better than most <$10k projectors after they've been calibrated. The manufacturer's Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) seems to be $3,499, as that is what reputable internet dealers have it listed at. The price is way too low for the performance, but projectors sell largely on specs and this one "only" has an HD2+ chip, not a DC3. HOWEVER, it has been noted that sources at TI and Coretronics (makers of more DLP light engines than anyone in the world) say that the conversion algorithms for the DC3 are not perfect. Therefore, while it does have better contrast and saturation, the DC3 cannot do as accurate colors as the "regular" HD2+. A lot of people can't tell if colors are slightly off, though, so many people will prefer the image of the DC3.

Referring to other HD2+ projectors, it definitely separates itself from the pack. If you have a higher-end HD2+ projector that offers all the adjustments needed for a full ISF C3 calibration, such a projector will make a similar image after calibration. Samsung seems to have upgraded the lens and the firmware from the last generation, and few other HD2+ projectors will be able to match the black levels this unit can generate. It also looks expensive and classy. I have not seen another projector look as good without spending another $2k - $4k.
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post #3 of 1071 Old 02-25-2006, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your very detailed informations...of course the price of this PJ makes me want to compare it to the Optoma H78DC3. From a color calibration point of view, the Samsung seems to be a winner. But absolute black levels and shadow details should be better with the Optoma, since it has a DC3 Chip.

Did I interpret your post correctly?

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post #4 of 1071 Old 02-26-2006, 10:13 AM
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Does anyone know where the vent fan is. If it's in the front, it just may work for me. In the back, it won't.

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post #5 of 1071 Old 02-26-2006, 12:06 PM
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It is on the front.

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post #6 of 1071 Old 02-26-2006, 04:10 PM
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Could anyone tell me if the Samsung is mounted between the top and bottom of the screen like Sharp,or above the screen like Infocus.Thanks. Sam Zeoli
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post #7 of 1071 Old 02-26-2006, 04:14 PM
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Projector Central rates the Samsung at 465 ANSI lumens when set up in "theater mode," where the colors are most accurate and the contrast is the highest. Projector Central also rates the Epson PowerLite Cinema 550 at just 240 ANSI lumens in its "theater mode." So the Samsung is actually almost twice as bright as the Epson, which is noted as a "bright" projector, in the set-up that most videophiles will want to use.

PS Projector Central rates the Optoma H79 at 450 ANSI lumens with "video-optimized settings."

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post #8 of 1071 Old 02-26-2006, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM ZEOLI View Post

Could anyone tell me if the Samsung is mounted between the top and bottom of the screen like Sharp,or above the screen like Infocus.Thanks. Sam Zeoli

This PJ has a vertical lens shift, so you should be able to place it conveniently where you wish without using keystoning.
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post #9 of 1071 Old 02-27-2006, 06:32 AM
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for those who have actually seen the projector in action? Could you please tell us if this projector is work the $$ over the recently released Optoma H72 (which also have rave reviews at projector central - disregarding intalling difficulties). ?
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post #10 of 1071 Old 02-27-2006, 08:45 AM
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I have the 700 so I can comment on it compared to an H79, but I can't comment on the H72 as I have not seen it.

The H79 and even Sharp 12000 have visible contouring when looking at a smooth gradient. You can see this pretty well on a gray ramp from AVIA. The 700 has a smooth gradient when looking at the same clip.

The Sharp 12000 has a lower black level and higher contrast ratio with its adjustable IRIS in high contrast mode.

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post #11 of 1071 Old 02-27-2006, 08:54 AM
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If this projector has so many positives, why all the buzz about Optoma H79 and Benq 8720? Why not this one.

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post #12 of 1071 Old 02-27-2006, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirk View Post

If this projector has so many positives, why all the buzz about Optoma H79 and Benq 8720? Why not this one.

For one, Samsung doesn't have the visibility in front projection like either BenQ or Optoma.

Second, the product was just recently reviewed for the first time

I'll also speculate that there was little build-up hype, like there is for many pre-release projectors, because on paper (HD2+ at $4K), it doesn't appear to be a particularly good value. High value DC3 models, and those sporting the new dual-mode chip are all the rage.
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post #13 of 1071 Old 02-27-2006, 09:24 AM
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This is the projector that was designed in part by Joe Kane for Samsung. It's calibrated performance is superb, especially in color rendition. It also has some really cool calibration tricks.

For anyone that has gone to Joe's demo at CEDIA the last two years this is the PJ he's been showing.

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post #14 of 1071 Old 02-27-2006, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

For anyone that has gone to Joe's demo at CEDIA the last two years this is the PJ he's been showing.


Do you mean this PJ has been around for two years? Things change so fast...


Can any Samsung H710AE owner comment about how this PJ compare to the H78DC3-H79 from optoma ? The samsung seems VERY bright but I am mostly interested in contrast and shadow details. It is probably not on par with those DC3 projectors, but who knows...

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post #15 of 1071 Old 02-28-2006, 08:18 AM
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What Stef said. I am very interested in this. I was considering the Benq 8720 and the Optoma H79 but this seems awfully good. So, if anyone has an opinion, please chime in.

Does AVS carry this?

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post #16 of 1071 Old 02-28-2006, 09:10 AM
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Iam getting ready to get a new projector my CRT is on it way out. Iam interested in getting a bigger screen, the one Iam using now is studiotek 130 80". Iam going with the 710AE I have total light control in my room. http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgall...0/ppuser/39383

Size 102" to 104" diagonal is the max I want to go. I would like to get a screen for the 710AE and be able to use it in the furture with a 1080p projector hopefully 3 chipper. So the High Contrast Grey would be nice for a future projector but will make the 710AE to dim?

Thanks for the Help
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post #17 of 1071 Old 02-28-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

Do you mean this PJ has been around for two years? Things change so fast...


Can any Samsung H710AE owner comment about how this PJ compare to the H78DC3-H79 from optoma ? The samsung seems VERY bright but I am mostly interested in contrast and shadow details. It is probably not on par with those DC3 projectors, but who knows...

I've seen all these pjs and what I can say is that the 710AE is rated at 2800:1 contrast (maximum for HD2+). Black levels are good, but black levels on a DC3 pj e.g. H79 are better BUT (and this is a big BUT), shadow DETAIL on 710AE is superior to any DC3 pj I have seen, even Samsung 800AE.
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post #18 of 1071 Old 02-28-2006, 10:46 AM
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Okay then Mr. Mountaineer, which would you buy for yourself?

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post #19 of 1071 Old 02-28-2006, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

I have the 700 so I can comment on it compared to an H79, but I can't comment on the H72 as I have not seen it.

The H79 and even Sharp 12000 have visible contouring when looking at a smooth gradient. You can see this pretty well on a gray ramp from AVIA. The 700 has a smooth gradient when looking at the same clip.

The Sharp 12000 has a lower black level and higher contrast ratio with its adjustable IRIS in high contrast mode.

Do you think some of that could be do to the increased contrast and thus presumably increased gamma of the 12000?

Asked in a different way, each step in input signal from (16,16,16) to (235,235,235) into 12000 should create more actual change in output lumens. More contrast would make subtle gradients harder to create?

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post #20 of 1071 Old 02-28-2006, 10:14 PM
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More contrast would make subtle gradients harder to create?

With that said, would you expect the gradient to change based on the IRIS setting of the 12000? I will talk with Kris and see if this is something we can do.

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post #21 of 1071 Old 03-01-2006, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirk View Post

Okay then Mr. Mountaineer, which would you buy for yourself?

jkirk, I am pretty finicky about front projection, but at $3499 with its filmlike PQ it's the Samsung, hands down. If I actually had an appropriate room in my house, I would buy it.
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post #22 of 1071 Old 03-01-2006, 01:35 PM
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Thanks Mountaineer, good straightforward answer. Now if only AVS sold it.

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post #23 of 1071 Old 03-01-2006, 09:52 PM
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I saw it at Electrograph's show in So Cal. Oh my! It's like a revelation every time I see it. The image had a 3D quality I normally associate with a high end 3-chip DLP that has been calibrated. Some of the comments people made while I was standing at the tent:

"It's a 3-chip (DLP), right?"
"Is this Samsung's new 1080p projector?"
"I don't like these projectors that cost over 10k. Real people can't afford them." (sorry, dude, but it's not even close)

stef2 - yes, you did interpret my post correctly. Any good DC3 projector will have an edge in black levels, and potential contrast, but not necessarily in shadow detail, as noted by Mountaineer. After seeing the 710 again, I have to say the black levels are better than any HD2+ pj I've seen, possibly better than some DC3 models. Even better is how TRUE the blacks and grays are. Not a hint of color, unless it's in the source material that way.

jkirk - I asked Joe Kane your question for you! Apparently, this was the first product Samsung has released that wasn't initiated by the marketing department. It was actually developed and released before the marketing department even knew it existed. Now they don't know how to market it. He also said everything that bubbawilly pointed out in his post. AND - I'm sure AVS could source it, or do a power buy with TVAuthority. (hint, hint, hint)

Kris Deering - If you like this projector calibrated, you should see it out of the box. The first one I saw was pulled straight from a sealed box and looked better than most calibrated projectors I have seen. Uncalibrated, it is never more than 10% off of 6500k at any point along the grayscale ramp. Calibration brings it under 5% variance at any point. Those are the numbers Joe Kane was throwing out, at least.

I've never seen the H79 and the SP-H710AE side-by-side, with the same source. That would be the only way to draw a proper comparison. However, I did get to see the H79 at a trade show. The 710 seems to have more "depth" to the image and more accurate colors, while the H79 (as I remember) would have a slight edge in black levels. They are both excellent representatives of their TI chips. If price were no object, it would be a tough choice, but I'd still go with the Samsung. Factoring in price, it's Samsung all the way.

I still love my Brillian 720p RPTV, but I'm trying to decide if I can a) fit a 100" - 110" screen above it, and b) how I can get the wife to understand the need for an even larger display...
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post #24 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirk View Post

Does anyone know where the vent fan is. If it's in the front, it just may work for me. In the back, it won't.

Front exhaust makes hushboxes harder to configure if you are ducting the heat out

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post #25 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 06:58 AM
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Front exhaust makes hushboxes harder to configure if you are ducting the heat out

You really shouldn't need a hushbox with this PJ, though.


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post #26 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 07:39 AM
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I order my 710AE last night cant wait to get it. I posted in this thread about screen white or grey with out any response. For those of you that have seen this projector what type of screen did you see it on?

Thanks for the help

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post #27 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 08:13 AM
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I'm also ordering one from AVS and would like similar screen advice for a mostly darkened room. Need an electric tensioned. Love Steward but a little pricey.

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post #28 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 09:55 AM
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Brad

If you are using a 6' wide 16x9, then the Grayhawk RS is a good choice. If you are using > 6' wide, then a Studiotek130 is a good choice. At least those are Joe's recommendations based on trade show demos. He usually sets up a 72" wide GH RS and 87" wide ST130 side-by-side for his demos.

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post #29 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 10:12 AM
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jkirk, I understand AVS is going to carry the 710AE (maybe they already are).

Stewart makes a great screen, but I've also seen it on Da-Lite and Vutech screens and it looks great on those, too.
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post #30 of 1071 Old 03-02-2006, 10:31 AM
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stef2,

thanks for posting about this projector. i have been considering the H79 and the 8720 but I have to admit being very intrigued by the H710AE.

would love to hear more comments from people who have seen all three projectors or those who have the Samsung installed and calibrated (although it appears to be pretty close out of the box).


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