Mitsubishi HC5000 (aka HC5000BL) 1080p LCD MSRP $4,495 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 04:22 PM
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Anyone know if the REON allows for aspect control?
ted want vertical stretch. Go CH 2.35 or go home.

ted
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post #182 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

The thing is no one knows the whole story till Cedia. Hence my often refrain -"Wait till Cedia". You have no idea of everything that will be there. What if the Pearl comes in at a street of $4k? What if the Cinetron comes in at $4k from Pearl pressure? The Cinetron is LCOS and has a Realta (Reon's big brother). What if someone shows up with a 1080p DLP that streets at under $5k? My point is that people should get excited before Cedia, but temper that excitement till after Cedia. You never know when some manufacturer comes out of left field to surprise you.

Ericglo

I hear you, but I'm not a "videophile" and like I said in an earlier post this unit hits all my buttons and if someone comes out with a better product I will still be very satisfied with the Mits - unless of course there's a better product that comes out for much cheaper which I doubt in the under $5k range - at least for a while.

It does almost seem too good to be true - C2Fine - HQV - quality optics - dynamic iris - and 19db!!! But my guy says it's the real deal so I'm willing to be a guinny pig. I'll find out if it's a bad choice when it gets here in November I guess.
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post #183 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I am curious, has anyone seen this Reon in action? It is a lower cost and performance chip compared to the Realta.

I wonder if the Mitsubishi will be that much better than the Panny 1100.

Ericglo

If the Panny is still using the D5 panels, then the Mits certainly should be significantly better. Else we've all been waiting for C2F for no reason.
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post #184 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

Anyone know if the REON allows for aspect control?
ted want vertical stretch. Go CH 2.35 or go home.

I've read that it surely is capable of doing this, but it's a different story if Mitsubishi guys decided to use this feature. And if they use vertical stretching, which resolutions does it work with? Like, can 1080p displayed only 1:1, or can it be also stretched.
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post #185 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

If the Panny is still using the D5 panels, then the Mits certainly should be significantly better. Else we've all been waiting for C2F for no reason.

Did I miss something? Are there two different 1080p LCD panels coming out? I was guessing that the 1080p LCDs from Panasonic, Sanyo, and Mitsubishi were going to be the same.

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post #186 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 09:51 PM
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I thought the same thing as well, but unless he's yanking our chain, "Ohlson" said that the Mits is going to be the only one to come out with the C2fine panels this cycle & that's not the first time I read it.
I've got no idea what 1080p from D5 panels will look like, but my main beef with my LCD is SDE and it's supposed to be virtually eliminated with the C2 fine. I've got a slight problem with seeing RBE and I'm not comfortable with the concept of a mechanical spinning wheel as part of the image creating path so DLP wasn't high on my list. As soon as I found out this PJ was indeed what they said it was, it became a no-brainer for me to pre-order it.
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post #187 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 09:55 PM
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Found this site with a guy claiming a MSRP of $4495 directly from Mitsubishi reps. With a MSRP like that, the street price will probably not be much lower than $4000. It also makes the price high enough that direct comparisons to the "Pearl" or even HD81 may be in order.

So a little higher than anticipated, but still, if $4495 is the real MSRP that's still a 1080p front projector that is clearly going to sell for under $5000 by the end of 2006! I really wasn't expecting any MSRP's on 1080p front projectors to be under $7000 until about this time in 2007! So I'm personally still happy, although it casts a little more doubt for me as my budget is comfortable at $3500, but starts to really get stretched when I go over that by too much

So personally I'll wait to hear just how good the picture is and how much it'll street for. Otherwise a high quality 720p unit like the BenQ 8720 may still be the better choice for me.

Jon
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post #188 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 10:06 PM
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"Cine4home's Ekkehart said on post #18 of this thread:

Vertical Banding was mainly due to the organic panels, the new ones are vertically aligned / anorganic.. like SXRD / D-ILA... so no big problems to expect anymore ;-)"

My mistake, for some reason I read VB as SD.

"my main beef with my LCD is SDE and it's supposed to be virtually eliminated with the C2 fine."

Thanks for making my mistaken assertion relevant

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post #189 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I thought the same thing as well, but unless he's yanking our chain, "Ohlson" said that the Mits is going to be the only one to come out with the C2fine panels this cycle & that's not the first time I read it.
I've got no idea what 1080p from D5 panels will look like, but my main beef with my LCD is SDE and it's supposed to be virtually eliminated with the C2 fine. I've got a slight problem with seeing RBE and I'm not comfortable with the concept of a mechanical spinning wheel as part of the image creating path so DLP wasn't high on my list. As soon as I found out this PJ was indeed what they said it was, it became a no-brainer for me to pre-order it.

The Cine4home site also has some write up about the upcoming Sanyo Z5 which still remains as a 720p projector. Hence, this may be further proof that Mits may have undertaken an exclusive allocation of the D6 panels from Epson at least until next year.

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...w%3D1%26sa%3DG
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post #190 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Teller View Post

Found this site with a guy claiming a MSRP of $4495 directly from Mitsubishi reps. With a MSRP like that, the street price will probably not be much lower than $4000. It also makes the price high enough that direct comparisons to the "Pearl" or even HD81 may be in order.

So a little higher than anticipated, but still, if $4495 is the real MSRP that's still a 1080p front projector that is clearly going to sell for under $5000 by the end of 2006! I really wasn't expecting any MSRP's on 1080p front projectors to be under $7000 until about this time in 2007! So I'm personally still happy, although it casts a little more doubt for me as my budget is comfortable at $3500, but starts to really get stretched when I go over that by too much

So personally I'll wait to hear just how good the picture is and how much it'll street for. Otherwise a high quality 720p unit like the BenQ 8720 may still be the better choice for me.

Jon

I think you're right on the money with the $4K + street price. But you're sure getting a lot for that dough including a 5000hr bulb which increases the value IMO.
They really did their homework on this unit so I can't see them missing the boat on the most important thing, namely picture quality.
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post #191 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post


My mistake, for some reason I read VB as SD.

"my main beef with my LCD is SDE and it's supposed to be virtually eliminated with the C2 fine."

Thanks for making my mistaken assertion relevant

You're welcome....I think....

Like I said I'm no videophile. But am I not correct in the assumption that the increased fill factor of the C2 Fine panels will result in taking the SDE out of the equation from inside 1.25 X screen width or less? (Which I think very few people would be inside of in most cases.)
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post #192 of 1940 Old 08-23-2006, 11:40 PM
 
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ok
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post #193 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 04:49 AM
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post #194 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 05:03 AM
 
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Is it not wierd that Mit is coming out with a LCD.I allways thought most companies either did lcd or dlp.Not both.I think Mit watch panny and sanyo sell so many more LCD'S than their DLP that they wanted onboard.I think mit lossed alot of sells with their hc3000 due to it not having len shift.I know the guys at BB said many people wanted the hc3000 but brought them back due to lack of lens shift.BUDDA
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post #195 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffong View Post

The Cine4home site also has some write up about the upcoming Sanyo Z5 which still remains as a 720p projector. Hence, this may be further proof that Mits may have undertaken an exclusive allocation of the D6 panels from Epson at least until next year.

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...w%3D1%26sa%3DG

Re: Sanyo Z5. Why would anyone even consider a 720P projector at this time w/ all the 1080 HD-DVD and Blu-Ray media out and arriving daily? I know cost is the main factor - but seems like they would never be happy knowing from the get go that they are compromising their image quality on every title they watch (like I am w/ my Panny 900). Everytime I watch a movie I wonder how much better it would be in 1080.
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post #196 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Re: Sanyo Z5. Why would anyone even consider a 720P projector at this time w/ all the 1080 HD-DVD and Blu-Ray media out and arriving daily? I know cost is the main factor - but seems like they would never be happy knowing from the get go that they are compromising their image quality on every title they watch (like I am w/ my Panny 900). Everytime I watch a movie I wonder how much better it would be in 1080.

Ditto. I have my name on the waiting list for the Mitsubishi 5000 at the same store in Akihabara that I bought my Sanyo Z2. The upgrade bug has been gnawing at me for a while now, but I've been holding out for a reasonably priced (under $4,000) 1080p projector. This Mitsubishi seems to have everything I've been looking for in the way of features at a price that's actually quite a bit lower than I was prepared to spend. Having lived with the Z2 for almost 3 years, I can't imagine not having lens shift, so the Mits works out fine. The timing is perfect too. At 3,000 hours+, my Z2 is starting to show signs of the dreaded "blue polarizer" problem. I can ignore it for the next two months until the 5000 is available. Although I may actually have to wait longer than that depending on where I am on the waiting list. Initially, I was reluctant to go the LCD route again because of my recent experience with the Z2, but if the C2Fine panels are as robust as they're advertising, I'm willing to give LCD another try. I was also concerned that the throw would be too long for my needs since I'm moving to a slightly smaller apartment soon. But the promotional material here just confirmed that it can handle a 100" screen in a 6-mat room, so it should be a perfect fit. I can't wait to see what HD-DVD or Blu-ray looks like on this thing. It's going to be an exciting holiday season indeed.
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post #197 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahead View Post

Is it not wierd that Mit is coming out with a LCD.I allways thought most companies either did lcd or dlp.Not both.I think Mit watch panny and sanyo sell so many more LCD'S than their DLP that they wanted onboard.I think mit lossed alot of sells with their hc3000 due to it not having len shift.I know the guys at BB said many people wanted the hc3000 but brought them back due to lack of lens shift.BUDDA

Personally I'm happy no matter what their reasoning is. I was aksing the guy I ordered my HC5000 from about the Benq 8720 and the Epson Cinema 800 a few months back and he tried to steer me towards the HC3000 saying it was one of the best PJ's he's seen and that it was very close to the 8720 in PQ but almost half the price. The the lack of lens-shift took it out of the equation for me though, so I'm one of those guys too. (Turns out that was a good thing- a couple more months and I'll have exactly what I want from a PJ.)
The other reason might simply be that with the C2 Fine panels they can get close to DLP black levels and CR and still provide some of the best features like motorized lens shift in this magical price-point, which they might not be able to do with a DLP based unit with a 1080p resolution.
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post #198 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 09:23 AM
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"But am I not correct in the assumption that the increased fill factor of the C2 Fine panels will result in taking the SDE out of the equation from inside 1.25 X screen width or less?"

Increased compared to what is the question. IIRC 720P C2Fine was going to have about 10% higher fill factor (55% vs 50%) than D5, but 1080P was going to be less than D5.

In any case, IMO the increased pixel count is a much more important factor.

"Why would anyone even consider a 720P projector at this time w/ all the 1080 HD-DVD and Blu-Ray media out and arriving daily?"

As you said, cost, and unless they're going to sit closer than 1.7 SW, they'll likely not even see the increased res.

Noah
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post #199 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I think you're right on the money with the $4K + street price. But you're sure getting a lot for that dough including a 5000hr bulb which increases the value IMO.
They really did their homework on this unit so I can't see them missing the boat on the most important thing, namely picture quality.

We all know those bulb ratings can not be trusted. Only experience will tell us how long the bulb will really last.
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post #200 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post


As you said, cost, and unless they're going to sit closer than 1.7 SW, they'll likely not even see the increased res.

I don't know. I sit at about 1.7 and I can occasionally see SDE with my 720p H78. When i use my H600 lens and expand to 2.35:1 (about 1.4x width then) I can certainly notice SDE then. So if I can sometimes make out SDE at that distance I think I would certainly notice the difference in resolution. My guess is that up to about 2.5x width you would be able to see the increased resolution even if you can't make out the screen door. IMHO of course.
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post #201 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 11:35 AM
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I'm at 1.7 as well and with my Cinema 500 SDE is definately in play. I most likely would see an improvement even going to the D5 panels, but in Epsons' own words the C2 Fine will also add;

"Key points of improved picture quality with inorganic alignment technology
1. Vastly improved contrast (several times existing levels);
2. Superb alignment;
3. Enhanced reproduction of dark colours (capable of reproducing jet black)"

"We all know those bulb ratings can not be trusted. Only experience will tell us how long the bulb will really last"

You mean they would actually fudge the numbers??? THOSE BAS---DS!!!

But really I doubt that Mits would risk putting out numbers that high and not at least be in the ballpark. That would make them look like fools IMO.
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post #202 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Teller View Post

Found this site with ...

That site mentions 3LCD technology and links to 3LCD.com, but that just sounds like regular old 3 panel LCD technology, no mention of C2Fine. I'm not saying it's not there, but weird that the article didn't mention the feature that's probably just as important as 1080p.

It will also be interesting to see how the HC5000 vs. Pearl fight works out.
$4495 MSRP vs. $5499 MSRP ($4999 MAP).

Personally, I'm speculating that the images will be very comparable and the Mits will be much more flexible for setup and potentially less costly to maintain if the bulb life is accurate. I've heard reports of $500 bulbs for the Pearl.

I was all set to buy the Pearl until I realized it would entail completly re-mounting a pj and moving it out into my room to get the best image. But I can set the HC5000 right on my shelf in place of my Panny 500.

I can't wait to find out what kind of image the HC5000 throws.
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post #203 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

That site mentions 3LCD technology and links to 3LCD.com, but that just sounds like regular old 3 panel LCD technology, no mention of C2Fine. I'm not saying it's not there, but weird that the article didn't mention the feature that's probably just as important as 1080p.

.

The Mit's website indicates C2 Fine.
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post #204 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 03:44 PM
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Does anyone know if a shelf mount requires this pj to be upside down, or can it stay in normal orientation on its feet.

In-Walls! Manufacturers Please Speak Out.
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post #205 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jkirk View Post

Does anyone know if a shelf mount requires this pj to be upside down, or can it stay in normal orientation on its feet.

cine4home indicates 25% up or down.

Actually this is backed up on the Mitsubshi site.
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post #206 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 09:10 PM
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Hmm, this projector uses a long throw lens unlike the previous crop of D5 projectors.

But I suppose it'll make a fine replacement for my Epson TW600.

Are we finally going to see real blacks on LCD projectors?
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post #207 of 1940 Old 08-24-2006, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by skogan View Post

The Mit's website indicates C2 Fine.

I know. Just weird that the guy omitted such a huge detail.

Anybody have a guess as to how D6 C2Fine will compare with SXRD?
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post #208 of 1940 Old 08-25-2006, 05:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Personally I'm happy no matter what their reasoning is. I was aksing the guy I ordered my HC5000 from about the Benq 8720 and the Epson Cinema 800 a few months back and he tried to steer me towards the HC3000 saying it was one of the best PJ's he's seen and that it was very close to the 8720 in PQ but almost half the price. The the lack of lens-shift took it out of the equation for me though, so I'm one of those guys too. (Turns out that was a good thing- a couple more months and I'll have exactly what I want from a PJ.)
The other reason might simply be that with the C2 Fine panels they can get close to DLP black levels and CR and still provide some of the best features like motorized lens shift in this magical price-point, which they might not be able to do with a DLP based unit with a 1080p resolution.

Good points.This mit hc5000 has moved to the front of my list for 1080p FP.I am glad it has some throw and len shift.Can't wait for some real reviews of it.Wish i could fly to Denver for the show'but will to busy at work.Have to make some cash to pay for these new toys.I wonder if BB will carry it since they carried the hc3000.Might be to highend for them.BUDDA
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post #209 of 1940 Old 08-25-2006, 09:57 AM
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Will the HQV Reon chip be able to scale DVD's to 1080p just like the Denon 5910 and the upcoming Denon 3930 and 2930? The latter has the same chip built-in for scaling?

That would be a huge gain, to avoid buying a new dvd player, regarding upscaling of old dvds!
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post #210 of 1940 Old 08-25-2006, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Swearengen View Post

Will the HQV Reon chip be able to scale DVD's to 1080p just like the Denon 5910 and the upcoming Denon 3930 and 2930? The latter has the same chip built-in for scaling?

That would be a huge gain, to avoid buying a new dvd player, regarding upscaling of old dvds!

Go here, post #25;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=714828
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