Official DLA-HD10K owners thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 88 Old 08-22-2006, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjotre View Post

The calibration Mr William Phelps does is not depending on the room environment where the projector is going to play?

There is some interaction with the room, depending on color. The light that can bounce back to the screen can change the white balance slightly. I believe the calibration is for the StudioTek 130 screen, a different screen can affect calibration.

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post #62 of 88 Old 08-22-2006, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Is there a particular screen that mates best to this projector? Given a totally light controlled room and a 9 or 10 ft. wide screen. I've been looking at this as my next projector.

Chris

I'm using a 133" HP Da-lite and it works very well. No hotspotting and a bright sharp picture edge to edge. One caveat you must mount the projector near head height for it to work. Trug has a excellent review of screens here just don't ask him any projector questions because he only knows one word when it comes to them.
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post #63 of 88 Old 08-22-2006, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

I'm using a 133" HP Da-lite and it works very well. No hotspotting and a bright sharp picture edge to edge. One caveat you must mount the projector near head height for it to work. Trug has a excellent review of screens here just don't ask him any projector questions because he only knows one word when it comes to them.

Thanks for the info. I should've mentioned also that I'll be using/needing a perforated screen.

Chris

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post #64 of 88 Old 08-22-2006, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

There is some interaction with the room, depending on color. The light that can bounce back to the screen can change the white balance slightly. I believe the calibration is for the StudioTek 130 screen, a different screen can affect calibration.

Sounds great! I have a totally light controlled room and a StudioTek 130 so it will probably work just fine then...
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post #65 of 88 Old 08-22-2006, 06:22 PM
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Get a StudioTek 130. I recommend it and I know because I have it with the MF1.

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post #66 of 88 Old 08-23-2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CChoi83 View Post

Get a StudioTek 130. I recommend it and I know because I have it with the MF1.

Is yours perforated?

I own a 9 ft wide Firehawk non-perf. and a G11 currently. It puts up a totally satisfying image, but.........now that I'm doing a new HT and will be needing a perf. screen, the 130 may make better sense because of the 10% light loss.

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post #67 of 88 Old 08-23-2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Is yours perforated?

I own a 9 ft wide Firehawk non-perf. and a G11 currently. It puts up a totally satisfying image, but.........now that I'm doing a new HT and will be needing a perf. screen, the 130 may make better sense because of the 10% light loss.

Chris

No, mine it not perforated. My HT is also my listening room so all my speakers are freestanding. No in-walls here. You might want to consider something like a Videomatte instead because perf. screens tend to have a lower gain than their non-perforated counterparts. You can always have it recalibrated for a different gain.

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post #68 of 88 Old 08-23-2006, 11:05 AM
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A 1.5 gain screen in a light controlled room? Probably not for me. One of the reasons I went to the Firehawk is because I like what it did for blacks and the fact that it was a little less 'in your face'. My seating distance will only be about 11 to 12 ft. to screen.

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post #69 of 88 Old 08-23-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

A 1.5 gain screen in a light controlled room? Probably not for me. One of the reasons I went to the Firehawk is because I like what it did for blacks and the fact that it was a little less 'in your face'. My seating distance will only be about 11 to 12 ft. to screen.

Well, the reason why I bought up the Videomatte is because even though non-perf and perf versions of the same screen STATE that they have the same gain, many times the perf. versions seem to be lower on Stewart screens. I think Stewart states somewhere on their site that's their perf. screens have a 10.2% light loss. Not sure if that's just an average figure for all their screens or for just the StudioTek 130. Ask around in the Stewart thread over in the Screens area of the forum.

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post #70 of 88 Old 08-23-2006, 12:41 PM
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I also recommend a ST130. I've tried Da Lite HP and a Greyhawk, but one thing that bugs me about most of these other screens are "sparklies". The ST130 has no screen artifacting whatsoever. There is nothing in the screen to distract the viewer and there is also no color shifts so if the projector is D65 calibrated you'll get good colors.
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post #71 of 88 Old 08-24-2006, 05:50 PM
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G'day from Down-Under (cheezey i know)

Two things.

1. Is there a solution available to ceiling mount the 10k without keystoning the image? We've tried cranking the lens offset on our showroom projector, and the keystoning becomes quite noticable. (unless it was caused by mislevelling of our little test projector stand) I'd love to sell the JVC to more clients but am finding the centre mount option quit restrictive with the relatively low screen positions we have to deal with.

2. We ran a cross hatch test pattern from a VP30 into a demo unit we recieved and noticed a misconvergance between the R,G,B lines by at least a couple pixels at it's worst. Horizontal lines seemed to misconverge pretty evenly from right to left (with the right side being almost spot on). We returned the demo unit, as since purchased our 10k. JVC said they checked the projector and it was within spec. Does anyone else notice this kind of thing? Is it normal? Our cusotm projector stand should be arriving in a couple weeks, so i'll be able to set up with the new unit at that time.

Thanks for the help!
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post #72 of 88 Old 08-24-2006, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datasculpter View Post

G'day from Down-Under (cheezey i know)

Two things.

1. Is there a solution available to ceiling mount the 10k without keystoning the image? We've tried cranking the lens offset on our showroom projector, and the keystoning becomes quite noticable. (unless it was caused by mislevelling of our little test projector stand) I'd love to sell the JVC to more clients but am finding the centre mount option quit restrictive with the relatively low screen positions we have to deal with.

2. We ran a cross hatch test pattern from a VP30 into a demo unit we recieved and noticed a misconvergance between the R,G,B lines by at least a couple pixels at it's worst. Horizontal lines seemed to misconverge pretty evenly from right to left (with the right side being almost spot on). We returned the demo unit, as since purchased our 10k. JVC said they checked the projector and it was within spec. Does anyone else notice this kind of thing? Is it normal? Our cusotm projector stand should be arriving in a couple weeks, so i'll be able to set up with the new unit at that time.

Thanks for the help!

As I recall, the image shift is limited to vertical, and not too much. If you are experiencing keystoning, I would look to projector level, then screen, there is no keystone adjustment on the projector (useless anyway on a digital pj).

All three-chip displays have some convergence misalignment, some more than others. Pretty much depends on how much they spent to get it right. I am not sure what the "within specification" number is, it could be 2 pixels or more. Just depends on their quality control and acceptable/achievable manufacturing tolerances and how many expected returns they forecast.

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post #73 of 88 Old 08-24-2006, 08:08 PM
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Thanks for that. It's kindof what i figured... Altho i was hoping somebody made "corrective optics" or something in that regard to optically correct for keystoning.

Cheers
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post #74 of 88 Old 08-24-2006, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datasculpter View Post

...2. We ran a cross hatch test pattern from a VP30 into a demo unit we recieved and noticed a misconvergance between the R,G,B lines by at least a couple pixels at it's worst. Horizontal lines seemed to misconverge pretty evenly from right to left (with the right side being almost spot on). We returned the demo unit, as since purchased our 10k. JVC said they checked the projector and it was within spec. Does anyone else notice this kind of thing? Is it normal? Our cusotm projector stand should be arriving in a couple weeks, so i'll be able to set up with the new unit at that time.

Thanks for the help!

My red is a about 1/2 pixel off on the right side. Two pixels off sounds pretty bad. You do know that you can adjust the individual panel convergences in 1 pixel increments. This may be off or you should be able to align within 1 pixel.
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post #75 of 88 Old 08-24-2006, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

My red is a about 1/2 pixel off on the right side. Two pixels off sounds pretty bad. You do know that you can adjust the individual panel convergences in 1 pixel increments. This may be off or you should be able to align within 1 pixel.

Generally, there is a service level, software based, configuration program for image shift to correct convergence. I would agree that anything over 1-pixel is an issue.

It is my understanding that Brillian has a target of +/- 1/2 pixel on their 1080p HDTV.

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post #76 of 88 Old 08-28-2006, 05:06 PM
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I did play with the user level pixel shift quite a bit, but every adjustment ended up compromising another part of the image. I'd be interested to learn about a service level adjustment as the JVC Pro Australian Tech dood was unaware of any kind of adjustment of the convergance via service means. It was his understanding that the LCOS assemble came as a pre-fab block, and what you see is what you got.

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post #77 of 88 Old 08-28-2006, 05:12 PM
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Convergence can only be adjusted on a global basis, not in a zone manner as with CRT's. When you adjust R, G or B shift, you are essentially choosing the 'lesser of two evils'. The tech you spoke with was correct.

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post #78 of 88 Old 08-28-2006, 06:20 PM
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Being a fixed pixel display any convergence adjustments are the entire image, in 1 pixel increments, up/down/left/right. If the adjustment is available, this should yield a maximum mis-convergence of ½ pixel (if you're off ¾ pixel to the right, moving one pixel to the left should yield ¼ pixel to the left). If it is off more than ½ pixel, get a replacement (if under warranty) if it cannot be corrected.

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post #79 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

There is some interaction with the room, depending on color. The light that can bounce back to the screen can change the white balance slightly. I believe the calibration is for the StudioTek 130 screen, a different screen can affect calibration.

This is not correct! William Phelps Optimization of this projector goes far beyond simple color calibration, as has been discussed elsewhere. The very small adjustments needed to compensate for screens which are not white or for room interactions, if any, are easily done with the user controls in the projector. The calibration is not specific to the StudioTek 130.

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post #80 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

As I recall, the image shift is limited to vertical, and not too much. If you are experiencing keystoning, I would look to projector level, then screen, there is no keystone adjustment on the projector (useless anyway on a digital pj).

The HD10K-S (short throw version) of the HD10K exhibits significant keystone at the limit of lens shift, due to the lens itself. I find that the projector must be tilted, NOT level, to compensate. I have recently reported this to JVC; they were not aware of this.

This may also be true of the HD10K with the long throw lens, I have not tested this.

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post #81 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datasculpter View Post

1. Is there a solution available to ceiling mount the 10k without keystoning the image? We've tried cranking the lens offset on our showroom projector, and the keystoning becomes quite noticable. (unless it was caused by mislevelling of our little test projector stand) I'd love to sell the JVC to more clients but am finding the centre mount option quit restrictive with the relatively low screen positions we have to deal with.

G'day! Way too long since I've visited your wonderful country...

I find with the HD10K projector that with large amounts of image shift it must be tilted to remove keystone. This appears to be due to the lens design.

Try running the image shift to the limit, placing the projector at the top of the screen, and tilting it to get the image square. It looks a bit strange with the projector tilted like this but it doesn't appear to affect the image quality.

William

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post #82 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wm View Post

This is not correct! .........adjustments needed to compensate for screens which are not white or for room interactions, if any, are easily done with the user controls in the projector......

If my statement was not correct, why do you mention color correction adjustments???? sounds like a contradiction to me. Field calibration is about white balance/grayscale, among other settings, and yes, they use the Studiotek 130 as a reference for white balance. Whitefield uniformity, gamma and a host of other things are, and can only be done with the factory software.

If in fact you are experiencing image distortion with image shift, I would seriously consider moving the projector to avoid any induced optical distortion of the image. At the cost of that projector, it is worth an optimal setup, not a compromise. It would seem to me, if you are experiencing image distortion through the lens, you probably are experiencing some focus issues too.

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post #83 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

If my statement was not correct, why do you mention color correction adjustments???? sounds like a contradiction to me. Field calibration is about white balance/grayscale, among other settings, and yes, they use the Studiotek 130 as a reference for white balance. Whitefield uniformity, gamma and a host of other things are, and can only be done with the factory software.

If in fact you are experiencing image distortion with image shift, I would seriously consider moving the projector to avoid any induced optical distortion of the image. At the cost of that projector, it is worth an optimal setup, not a compromise. It would seem to me, if you are experiencing image distortion through the lens, you probably are experiencing some focus issues too.

Glen,

I have developed my own software and processes for Optimization of the JVC series of projectors. There are many reports about this including magazine reviews. In this thread the discussion of my "calibration" is far more than what you are used to, and I do not use "factory software".

I think you will find, if you take the time to actually experiment with the projectors rather than just speculate, that the suggestions I make for placement and tilt are not a compromise. It would be a compromise to place the projector in the middle of the room, positioned at screen center, taking up the best seat in the theater!

We see on average 10 projectors a week. I speak from practical experience and actual measurements. My customers can attest to the quality of the work I do.

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post #84 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by wm View Post

Glen,

My customers can attest to the quality of the work I do.

William

The Optimized experience is something you have to see to believe. Thanks again Mr. Phelps.

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post #85 of 88 Old 08-30-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjotre View Post

So if i understand you right there is no differences between the JVC and the Meridian exept for the outstanding calibration that Mr William Phelps does...

If you talk to Meridian/Faroudja, they claim they have changed some of the programming in the projector, in addition to the WP setup. I would like to think that WP has consulted with Meridian/Faroudja to incorporate enhanced picture control.

Quote:
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I have developed my own software and processes for Optimization of the JVC series of projectors. There are many reports about this including magazine reviews. In this thread the discussion of my "calibration" is far more than what you are used to, and I do not use "factory software".

I think you will find, if you take the time to actually experiment with the projectors rather than just speculate, that the suggestions I make for placement and tilt are not a compromise. It would be a compromise to place the projector in the middle of the room, positioned at screen center, taking up the best seat in the theater!

We see on average 10 projectors a week. I speak from practical experience and actual measurements. My customers can attest to the quality of the work I do.

William, I truly wish I had the opportunity to work with/experiment on the projectors. Unfortunately, I don't get the opportunity.

My recent, only exposure, was just a few hours to setup all the input devices on a DILA-1080pHD, (DirecTV TiVo, 2-DVD players and a laser disc player) in the DVP-1080. The only real issue was the off-white walls in the room, affected black level in higher APL scenes. And yes, my comments were based upon speculation under the premise that induced optical distortion from lens shift was not optimal. If I were to guess, I would imagine you are only talking about ½ or so of keystoning at the screen, which would hardly be noticeable distortion.

I don't think, in theory, I was off, however your experience, practical application and technique, has provided me (others too) with some education in the issue. Knowing that it works, it is now something that can be used as a reference.

I readily agree, your level of optimization is far from a basic calibration (ISF or not), just as a full setup on a CRT projector is nothing like a basic calibration.

I assume the Faroudja projector is "William Phelps Optimized" from the "factory" (my reference to "factory software"), and the JVC is or can be optimized by William Phelps, by appointment.

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post #86 of 88 Old 12-03-2006, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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For post number 4000 I thought I would just post a few screen shots.







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post #87 of 88 Old 03-04-2007, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Can not get my projector to work with the Harmony 880 remote. Using the data base it has lots of commands that the projector doesn't have. However the main problem is it will not power on/off. Have tried to learn these but it doesn't do anything. It also won't learn the arrow keys but will learn all others (and from other remotes) so it is not my technique or the remote. Have tried 2", 1",.05", 3",5", 8".... and get nothing. By far the most important are the on and off because the 880 is useless without them. How can I force the 880 to learn or where can I get the correct profile for my projector. I realize it is a somewhat rare item but there must be a way for it to work.

Is there somthing about JVC's on/off/arrow commands that are not learnable or incompatable? Are others having problems with remotes and the HD10K?e
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post #88 of 88 Old 03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
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Regarding on/off typically with JVC you need to repeat the command a few times.
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