Brand New Sony VPL-VW50 (Pearl) In Hand! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigDvette View Post

Everyone keeps saying it is 700 lumen output, but every site claims 900 lumen output and the sony sight has nothing on this. The Ruby says 800 lumen output.

900 is the maximum according to spec. 700 lumens is after calibration according to the review at cine4home. That's actually not too bad because a lot of pjs rated at 1000+ lumens actually have much lower calibrated output (as low as under 50%).
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post #362 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 09:33 AM
 
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ARGH!

Must.....resist.......urge.....to.......buy...........

I got the upgrade bug

Still love my Sanyo Z4 and I still have me free extra bulb unused but man 1080p at half the price of the Ruby and HD-DVD xbox 360 attachment right around the corner is soooo tempting.
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post #363 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 10:18 AM
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700 after calibration is a ton. Usually, projectors spec'ed with 1000 get around 400 or so in HT mode after calibration.

Bob
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post #364 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chako View Post

ARGH!

Must.....resist.......urge.....to.......buy...........

I got the upgrade bug

Still love my Sanyo Z4 and I still have me free extra bulb unused but man 1080p at half the price of the Ruby and HD-DVD xbox 360 attachment right around the corner is soooo tempting.

Resistance is futile . You will be assimmulated and become part of the collective.

Daniel
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post #365 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linesalomon View Post

If that's not a possibility, will this projector be watchable? I'm obviously new to projectors, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.

It's not a stupid question at all. It's a very important one for front projection setups. Yes, you'd be fine painting the walls a dark color - except maybe with your wife or S.O.

Calculating 700 lumens divided by 27 square feet multiplied by 1.3, you get about 31 foot-Lamberts. That'd be your initial brightness that'd drop to 15 ftL assuming the bulb loses 50% brightness at its endpoint. If all that's true, your overall brightness would be all right. The less light leaking onto the screen especially or into the room (at all, ideally) when watching front projection, the better.

You're simultaneous contrast would suffer some, due to light reflections from the light walls back to the screen lightening dark parts of an image that has both dark and light elements.

Dan
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post #366 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 10:49 AM
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Last night I brought my Pearl over to a friend's place. He has a Ruby, and we compared them on the same screen, a 116"-wide High Power with 2.8 gain.

The first thing we compared was the convergence. A photo comparison is attached below.

This Pearl has very good convergence. Only red is off, to the right by half a pixel, which is consistent over the entire image.

This Ruby has much worse convergence. The left side of the image has red off by 2 pixels to the right of green, and blue off by 1 pixel to the right of green and also below. The right side of the image is better than the left side, since red is off by half a pixel to the right of green, but blue is still off by 1 pixel. The convergence seems to be worse than average for a Ruby.

I will post more findings later.
LL
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post #367 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linesalomon View Post

If that's not a possibility, will this projector be watchable? I'm obviously new to projectors, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.

Not a stupid question at all. You will tend to have better ANSI contrast in a room with dark colored walls, so I highly suggest it.

Dark walls will also do a better job of absorbing any stray light leaking out of the projector or other light sources, like rope lighting in the walkways, which could impact on/off contrast.

In short, you're better off with dark walls. But yes, the picture will be watchable in a room with light colored walls.
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post #368 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 10:55 AM
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Linesalomon -

It will be plenty bright. just for reference, I project an h30 on a 110 diagnal screen. The lumens are close to 400 and the gain of the screen is prolly a little under 1 (guessing because i built it myself).

I project it in my living room so as you can imagine my light controll gets as good as closing the blinds and its plenty bright. I watch Tv on it durring the day with little issue unless its a dark show.

Obvously im not a videophile =)

You could always get away with having two settings an uncalibrated setting and get 900 lumens out of the projector during the day and a calibrated one for night time viewing if you have light controll problems like myself.
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post #369 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

Last night I brought my Pearl over to a friend's place. He has a Ruby, and we compared them on the same screen, a 116"-wide High Power with 2.8 gain.

The first thing we compared was the convergence. A photo comparison is attached below.

This Pearl has very good convergence. Only red is off, to the right by half a pixel, which is consistent over the entire image.

This Ruby has much worse convergence. The left side of the image has red off by 2 pixels to the right of green, and blue off by 1 pixel to the right of green and also below. The right side of the image is better than the left side, since red is off by half a pixel to the right of green, but blue is still off by 1 pixel. The convergence seems to be worse than average for a Ruby.

I will post more findings later.

If you've taken a bunch more pictures comparing these two machines, this is good enough to warrant its own thread.
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post #370 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:12 AM
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gremmy, velvetpoet, drapp1952, SOWK, and others:
Thank you all for you helpful posts. I really appreciate the info you've given me...it makes spending $5K a little easier.
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post #371 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

Last night I brought my Pearl over to a friend's place. He has a Ruby, and we compared them on the same screen, a 116"-wide High Power with 2.8 gain.

The first thing we compared was the convergence. A photo comparison is attached below.

This Pearl has very good convergence. Only red is off, to the right by half a pixel, which is consistent over the entire image.

This Ruby has much worse convergence. The left side of the image has red off by 2 pixels to the right of green, and blue off by 1 pixel to the right of green and also below. The right side of the image is better than the left side, since red is off by half a pixel to the right of green, but blue is still off by 1 pixel. The convergence seems to be worse than average for a Ruby.

I will post more findings later.

Wow, those pictures make me feel VERY GOOD about my Pearl order. Here's hoping my unit is at least that well converged. Thanks for posting.

Any other impressions or comparisions between the two?


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post #372 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:19 AM
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http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...ts-part-1.html

For example, Sony debuted its VPL-VW50 projector, a sleek SXRD-based model with 1080p resolution. The company actually drew cheers from the audience when it announced the price: $5,000. It joins Sony's two existing 1080p SXRD front projectors, the Qualia 004R1 and the VPL-VW100. The VPL-VW50 boasts a new single-chip video processing engine, enabling the use of an all-digital chassis, which the company says eliminates signal noise caused by analog-to-digital or digital-to-analog conversion. It also sports dual HDMI inputs with 1080p support at both 60 and 24 frames per second.

It's all just a game. I just play to win.
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post #373 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

Last night I brought my Pearl over to a friend's place. He has a Ruby, and we compared them on the same screen, a 116"-wide High Power with 2.8 gain.

The first thing we compared was the convergence. A photo comparison is attached below.

This Pearl has very good convergence. Only red is off, to the right by half a pixel, which is consistent over the entire image.

This Ruby has much worse convergence. The left side of the image has red off by 2 pixels to the right of green, and blue off by 1 pixel to the right of green and also below. The right side of the image is better than the left side, since red is off by half a pixel to the right of green, but blue is still off by 1 pixel. The convergence seems to be worse than average for a Ruby.

I will post more findings later.

Wow! Huge difference in convergence! Round 1 goes to the Pearl!
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post #374 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:26 AM
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Useless question:

What size is the box it comes in?

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #375 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:33 AM
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GOD I hope my convergance is that good! if not better!



I HOPE I HOPE!

I'm Praying!
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post #376 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

If you've taken a bunch more pictures comparing these two machines, this is good enough to warrant its own thread.

I only have one more photo. It shows a fullscreen white image on the Pearl. I went ahead and attached it below.

There is some slight color shifting. It is slightly greenish along the top of the image, and it gradually becomes pinkish towards the bottom.
LL
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post #377 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:38 AM
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post #378 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

I only have one more photo. It shows a fullscreen white image on the Pearl. I went ahead and attached it below.

There is some slight color shifting. It is slightly greenish along the top of the image, and it gradually becomes pinkish towards the bottom.

Ugh. That pink at the bottom is quite noticeable. Let us know if you can see this while viewing a bright image.
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post #379 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:42 AM
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Reminds me of my old Sony VPL-400Q LCD projector pink in one corner and green ish in another. I mostly noticed it in black and white sequences or movies, well, maybe a little in dark scenes as well.
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post #380 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

Last night I brought my Pearl over to a friend's place. He has a Ruby, and we compared them on the same screen, a 116"-wide High Power with 2.8 gain.

Will be very interested to hear how the brightness of the Pearl handles this very large (133"diag) highpower. If you are indeed getting 700 lumens out of the pj, and you have it set in the optimum position, this amounts to 37 ftL--which ought to be BRIGHT!
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post #381 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 11:46 AM
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I am not surprised if wm ports his shading tool to work on Pearl.

A single Ruby and a single Pearl is not a very big sample.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #382 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Is it noticeable during a movie?

It sure would be during a B&W film. Less so on a color film. My Panny 700 has shading issues like this.

SOWK - you must be a nervous wreck (w/ anticipation)
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post #383 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

I only have one more photo. It shows a fullscreen white image on the Pearl. I went ahead and attached it below.

There is some slight color shifting. It is slightly greenish along the top of the image, and it gradually becomes pinkish towards the bottom.

Well, we've seen two different Pearls with white-fields posted. And both have had color uniformity problems. Of course, the picture of the unit at CEDIA was much worse than this.

I am very sensitive to this sort of color discontinuity. We need everyone who buys one of these to post a whitefield picture so we can get a bigger sample. Sony seems to have trouble getting this ironed out in their lower cost units. For me it's a big deal. For others it may not be.

The thing about these color shift issues in SXRD is that there is a history in the RPTVs of the issue getting worse over time on some sets.
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post #384 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:39 PM
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I don't think Andrew P or djzelos reported any color discontinuity (shading) issues w/ their new Pearls. Unless I missed it.
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post #385 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Any other impressions or comparisions between the two?

The Pearl's "Low" color temperature setting is already very close to D65 out of the box. It was measured by ColorFacts at 6490K, only about 1 or 2 % too green.

To calibrate to D65, we used the "Custom3" setting (which starts out similar to "Low") and ended up with the following.
Gain: R = 1, G = -2, B = 3
Bias: R = -4, G = 8, B = 0
After calibration, it was within 50K of 6500K from 30 IRE to 100 IRE.

The calibrated brightness was measured with a light meter. "High" lamp power gives 576 lumens, and "Low" gives 382 lumens. (By the way, the fan noise changes to a lower pitch when you switch from "High" to "Low", but it did not seem to be any quieter.) By comparison, the Ruby has 283 lumens, although there are 870 hours on its Xenon lamp, and less than 5 hours on the Pearl's UHP lamp.

To test inverse telecine (IVTC) on 1080i, we used the vertrezivtc test pattern (see other thread) over DVI/HDMI from a HiPix HDTV card. When the Pearl's DDE setting is "Film", the top strip is fully resolved as the white bar moves across it, which suggests that inverse telecine works properly for 1080i. When DDE is "Progressive", the top strip is fully resolved except that the white bar has jagged edges and a black trail, which suggests that a motion adaptive deinterlacer is being used, but without inverse telecine. When DDE is "Off", the top strip becomes a flickering gray area, which suggests that a simple "bob" deinterlacer is being used.

We also tested 1080/48p and 1080/24p signals over DVI/HDMI from an iScan VP30. The Pearl can display both at their native frame rate (i.e, without converting them to another frame rate, such as 60p). However, 24p showed tearing along the bottom 5% of the image, although it is unclear whether the iScan or the Pearl is causing it. In any case, the tearing can be covered up by using the Pearl's Blanking feature, and it is not noticeable on letterboxed 2.35:1 images. By comparison, the Ruby can display 48p natively, but it cannot display 24p at all.

Another difference is the colors. The Ruby's colors appear to be somewhat more vibrant overall. In particular, skin tones are rosier on the Ruby, but more yellowish/greenish on the Pearl. I'm not sure which are more accurate, but I prefer them on the Ruby. It might be worthwhile to experiment with the Pearl's RCP feature to tweak the skin tones.
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post #386 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:52 PM
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You answered many questions people were having in this one post, thank you!
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post #387 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Is it noticeable during a movie?

I did not notice the color shifting during the movies, although none of them were black & white. I only noticed it on the test patterns.
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post #388 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

The Pearl's "Low" color temperature setting is already very close to D65 out of the box. It was measured by ColorFacts at 6490K, only about 1 or 2 % too green.

To calibrate to D65, we used the "Custom3" setting (which starts out similar to "Low") and ended up with the following.
Gain: R = 1, G = -2, B = 3
Bias: R = -4, G = 8, B = 0
After calibration, it was within 50K of 6500K from 30 IRE to 100 IRE.

The calibrated brightness was measured with a light meter. "High" lamp power gives 576 lumens, and "Low" gives 382 lumens. (By the way, the fan noise changes to a lower pitch when you switch from "High" to "Low", but it did not seem to be any quieter.) By comparison, the Ruby has 283 lumens, although there are 870 hours on its Xenon lamp, and less than 5 hours on the Pearl's UHP lamp.

To test inverse telecine (IVTC) on 1080i, we used the vertrezivtc test pattern (see other thread) over DVI/HDMI from a HiPix HDTV card. When the Pearl's DDE setting is "Film", the top strip is fully resolved as the white bar moves across it, which suggests that inverse telecine works properly for 1080i. When DDE is "Progressive", the top strip is fully resolved except that the white bar has jagged edges and a black trail, which suggests that a motion adaptive deinterlacer is being used, but without inverse telecine. When DDE is "Off", the top strip becomes a flickering gray area, which suggests that a simple "bob" deinterlacer is being used.

We also tested 1080/48p and 1080/24p signals over DVI/HDMI from an iScan VP30. The Pearl can display both at their native frame rate (i.e, without converting them to another frame rate, such as 60p). However, 24p showed tearing along the bottom 5% of the image, although it is unclear whether the iScan or the Pearl is causing it. In any case, the tearing can be covered up by using the Pearl's Blanking feature, and it is not noticeable on letterboxed 2.35:1 images. By comparison, the Ruby can display 48p natively, but it cannot display 24p at all.

Another difference is the colors. The Ruby's colors appear to be somewhat more vibrant overall. In particular, skin tones are rosier on the Ruby, but more yellowish/greenish on the Pearl. I'm not sure which are more accurate, but I prefer them on the Ruby. It might be worthwhile to experiment with the Pearl's RCP feature to tweak the skin tones.

Great info. I think I may have even understood some of it.

Any chance of taking a screen-shot of the Ruby and Pearl paused on the same scene (with the camera on a tripod and in manual mode to eliminate any differences there) so we can compare?

-tony
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post #389 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I don't think Andrew P or djzelos reported any color discontinuity (shading) issues w/ their new Pearls. Unless I missed it.

No, I don't believe they did.

Andrew and djzelos, if you guys plan on posting any more pictures, could you include one of a white-field? Thanks guys!
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post #390 of 830 Old 09-20-2006, 01:05 PM
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Great info Eric, thanks.

Can you take a spectral scan of both the Ruby and Pearl while they are at D65 and post the images for us to see? I was going to do something along similar lines with the pj with and without fl-day filter, but then found my colorimiter can;t do that (I need a spectroradiaometer like the GMB).

Thanks

Gary

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