The Official Sony VPL-VW50 (Pearl) Calibration/Tweak Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I haven't seen this? What input using what as a source? Running test patterns into the PEARL from a 1080i source (HD-DVD home burned test patterns input from a Toshiba HD-DVD via HDMI) and setting sharpness to zero, I see no outlining at all.

I'm running all inputs via component, and I see the effect on all inputs. This is one of the things that they tested for in the Cine4Home review -- I can't remember the test results.

Is setting sharpness to zero really the recommendation? Does that destroy any "real"detail on an LCOS device?
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post #92 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:06 PM
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Nice fine. I owe you 2 dollars and a biscuit!

I sent a PM to Erik asking for his color saturation, hue, and other settings.
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post #93 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:09 PM
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gremmy,
can you post them when you get them?
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post #94 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by toddbee View Post

gremmy,
can you post them when you get them?

Sure, no problem. Or maybe luck will lead Erik in here to deliver the info to all of us personally.
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post #95 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:19 PM
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Can someone explain to me the definition of "gain" and "bias"?
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post #96 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:28 PM
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One really KISS operational answer is bias controls affect low IREs and gain affects higher ones. There are, of course, more complete or advanced definitions.

http://www.poynton.com/notes/brightness_and_contrast/

Dan
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post #97 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Can someone explain to me the definition of "gain" and "bias"?

In general, if you understand algebra and the standard formula of a line (y=mx+b), the gain is the slope of the line (m) and the bias is the offset (b) when x is zero.

So if you have an error where all numbers are 5 too low, you would increase the bias to shift the line five spots higher.

If you have an error where the answer is correct at the zero crossing, but deviates steadily as you get farther away from it, then you want to adjust the gain.

If you have both errors, you adjust the zero corssing and then the gain.

In practice, it is not always that easy, because you cannot always get data at the zero crossing.

Also, somtimes the controls are not truly independent, and when you adjust the bias it slightly changes the gain, and/or vice versa.

Sometimes you go back and forth between two points, adjusting bias and gain until you approach a good enough solution.

I have very little experience with adjusting a pj, but that is what gain and bias are, in general. I just hoped that a very general overview of gain and bias might be helpful.

If it is not, don't worry about it. I am sure others can give very good descriptions of what to do with gain and bias in particular, when adjusting a display device.

Best Regards,
Doug
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post #98 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shodoug View Post

In general, if you understand algebra and the standard formula of a line (y=mx+b), the gain is the slope of the line (m) and the bias is the offset (b) when x is zero.

So if you have an error where all numbers are 5 too low, you would increase the bias to shift the line five spots higher.

If you have an error where the answer is correct at the zero crossing, but deviates steadily as you get farther away from it, then you want to adjust the gain.

If you have both errors, you adjust the zero corssing and then the gain.

In practice, it is not always that easy, because you cannot always get data at the zero crossing.

Also, somtimes the controls are not truly independent, and when you adjust the bias it slightly changes the gain, and/or vice versa.

Sometimes you go back and forth between two points, adjusting bias and gain until you approach a good enough solution.

I have very little experience with adjusting a pj, but that is what gain and bias are, in general. I just hoped that a very general overview of gain and bias might be helpful.

If it is not, don't worry about it. I am sure others can give very good descriptions of what to do with gain and bias in particular, when adjusting a display device.

Best Regards,
Doug

From a mathematics point of view, this makes sense to me. Without fancy meters and other gadgets, I probably am at the mercy of tinkering with other people's settings to see how they look. Thankfully, I can always reset to the defaults.
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post #99 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

I'm running all inputs via component, and I see the effect on all inputs. This is one of the things that they tested for in the Cine4Home review -- I can't remember the test results.

Is setting sharpness to zero really the recommendation? Does that destroy any "real"detail on an LCOS device?

On the HDMI input, I don't see any loss of detail when setting sharpness to zero. I haven't tried the component input, yet.

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post #100 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:11 PM
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i have found the component input to be very good on the pearl. can someone give me there experience component vs. hdmi?
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post #101 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

From a mathematics point of view, this makes sense to me. Without fancy meters and other gadgets, I probably am at the mercy of tinkering with other people's settings to see how they look. Thankfully, I can always reset to the defaults.

I believe that you can use different patterns to determine what to adjust, but that is just what I have always supposed.

Best Regards,
Doug
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post #102 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

I'm running all inputs via component, and I see the effect on all inputs. This is one of the things that they tested for in the Cine4Home review -- I can't remember the test results.

Is setting sharpness to zero really the recommendation? Does that destroy any "real"detail on an LCOS device?

From the Cine4Home.com Pearl review:

3.9.1 Signal processing

The signal processing must convert the incoming analog and digital picture signals, and if necessary convert the analog signal to digital before the signal processing. Annoying double outlines are to be avoided.

With analog feeds, the signal processing of the VW50 visibly tends to show double outlines (screen shot above), but they can be clearly improved using the Sharpness adjustment, without sacrificing sharpness. The results are intrinsically better when a digital signal is fed:

Here the double outlines are very subtle from the factory, however they can not be adjusted with a HDMI input signal. During movie operation, no annoying outlines are visible.

Dan

My Edit: Service menu adjustments might address remaining subtle double outlines with a HDMI input.
LL
LL
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post #103 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbee View Post

gremmy,
can you post them when you get them?


Drumroll Please...

And the answer is:

Erik left his color saturation, contrast, and hue at the default settings. 80, 50, 50.
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post #104 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drapp1952 View Post

From the Cine4Home.com Pearl review:

3.9.1 Signal processing

The signal processing must convert the incoming analog and digital picture signals, and if necessary convert the analog signal to digital before the signal processing. Annoying double outlines are to be avoided.

With analog feeds, the signal processing of the VW50 visibly tends to show double outlines (screen shot above), but they can be clearly improved using the Sharpness adjustment, without sacrificing sharpness. The results are intrinsically better when a digital signal is fed:

Here the double outlines are very subtle from the factory, however they can not be adjusted with a HDMI input signal. During movie operation, no annoying outlines are visible.

Dan

My Edit: Service menu adjustments might address remaining subtle double outlines with a HDMI input.

Hmmm. I don't recall seeing those outlines when feeding the Pearl 1080i from HD-DVD, or 1080p from an HTPC. I'll have to check again.

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post #105 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Can someone explain to me the definition of "gain" and "bias"?

I think you're probably asking in relation to R, G, B settings for each. On the Sony professional CRT on my desk, Bias is the low IRE part of the curve and Gain is the high IRE part of the curve. Now, that said, there is quite a bit of interaction between them. (Think curve, not shelf). I would presume that the Pearl uses the same language as the my reference display at work.

Very short answer: these are the controls that you use to set the grayscale.
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post #106 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 04:01 PM
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Will this mount work with the Pearl? Mount
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post #107 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

Will this mount work with the Pearl? Mount

From the link...

"Weight capacity: 25 lbs"

Isn't the Pearl 30 lbs?

Best Regards,
Doug
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post #108 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 04:22 PM
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My baby weighed in at 24 pounds, 4 ounces.

Marc
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post #109 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Drumroll Please...

And the answer is:

Erik left his color saturation, contrast, and hue at the default settings. 80, 50, 50.

That confirms recommendations to keep these controls where they are.

But how about color temp? What are his RGB bias and gain settings? (OK, all you calibration-savvy AVSers, what's wrong with these questions and which is most dangerous?)

Dan
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post #110 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mblank View Post

My baby weighed in at 24 pounds, 4 ounces.

Marc

And was it delivered by a guy in brown shorts?
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post #111 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mblank View Post

My baby weighed in at 24 pounds, 4 ounces.

Marc

that is a little too close to maximium for me.

I am more careful than most.

The chief mount that Jason sent ahs a max spec of 50 lbs.

Best Regards,
Doug
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post #112 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drapp1952 View Post

What are his RGB bias and gain settings? (OK, all you calibration-savvy AVSers, what's wrong with these questions and which is most dangerous?)

That one is the most dangerous. Particularly on a projector with a dynamic iris. It is not like adjusting a projector with a fixed iris. Unless you have the equipment and experience at adjusting grayscale, and are ready to learn new methods to do it with a dynamic iris, I suggest you leave it alone. In any event, knowing what worked for someone else, assuming it really worked for someone else, won't help you unless many other things (service level adjustments) are also adjusted the same on both projectors, the lamps are the same, age the same, etc.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #113 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 05:55 PM
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gremmy,
what component are you feeding with these new settings? eg. dvd player? hdmi?
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post #114 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 06:58 PM
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yeah those setting look amazing on the component input. for some reason the hdmi input seems slightly less saturated and a hair to the green yellow side. not sure why. possibly the different process going on.
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post #115 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbee View Post

yeah those setting look amazing on the component input. for some reason the hdmi input seems slightly less saturated and a hair to the green yellow side. not sure why. possibly the different process going on.

You mean after using the suggested settings, your HDMI performance was worse than before you started? Or it just didn't improve as much as the component input performance, but was still better than before the settings change?

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post #116 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 07:55 PM
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color seem slightly different via hdmi. i dont know why. a slight green push overall
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post #117 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 08:12 PM
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sorry to be obtuse, but do you mean the color is slightly different between component cf hdmi, or color via hdmi is different now (after the tweak) from where it was before and it has gotten worse (after the tweak)?

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post #118 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 09:35 PM
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I don't know if the settings should be different for HDMI or not, but I can say one thing with absolute certainty. As far as I'm concerned, these settings are the definitive settings (even if it turns out to be restricted to component input). I just watched Dexter and Weeds on Showtime HD, and it was the very first "looking through a window" experience I've ever had on any display device in my home. Totally amazing.

Maybe we should add them to the original post?
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post #119 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 10:02 PM
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Hmmm. Okay, I'll give them a try, once the machine starts being nice, again. For some reason, the left side of the screen now has a few bands of vertical lines. Should cycle the power and see if that helps!
LL

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post #120 of 622 Old 10-04-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Hmmm. Okay, I'll give them a try, once the machine starts being nice, again. For some reason, the left side of the screen now has a few bands of vertical lines. Should cycle the power and see if that helps!

Good lord. What the heck *is* that?

I hope it goes away!
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