Epson EMP-TW1000 1080p LCD HDMI1.3 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

No takers on my offer for a shoot-out leftover? Come on y'all, help a brother out!

I thought I was bad, but you got the disease in a really big way. lol
If I wasn't so happy with my 810 I might have taken you up on it, even if it meant taking sloppy seconds.

So suppose you do decide to do this selfless act of a shootout purely for scientific purposes for the better of the AVS community of course...you'll need a 1080p source to feed these things. What would you use ?
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post #182 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 03:36 PM
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Yeah, I got it bad. Curiosity just eats me up. And now that I'm far enough along in life that I can afford to buy what I want, I figure, what the heck.

Shouldn't be any sloppy seconds. Even if I think the 700 is close or the same, I know someone would rather have 1080p.

I have the Panasonic Blu Ray player and I just got an email from Robert that my Toshiba HD-A2 has just shipped and should be here early next week.

So when I come back next Friday, I might have 2 brand new Epson pjs and 2 high def dvd formats to compare on a 106" screen.

AND I have a Gefen HDMI splitter so I can run them at the same time! Would be a hell of a shootout!
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post #183 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

Yeah, I got it bad. Curiosity just eats me up. And now that I'm far enough along in life that I can afford to buy what I want, I figure, what the heck.

Shouldn't be any sloppy seconds. Even if I think the 700 is close or the same, I know someone would rather have 1080p.

I have the Panasonic Blu Ray player and I just got an email from Robert that my Toshiba HD-A2 has just shipped and should be here early next week.

So when I come back next Friday, I might have 2 brand new Epson pjs and 2 high def dvd formats to compare on a 106" screen.

AND I have a Gefen HDMI splitter so I can run them at the same time! Would be a hell of a shootout!

Sweet! We want pics ... oh wait, guess I should wait until you actually have some of the gear
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post #184 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 04:40 PM
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Yeah, let's see if I actually get that TW1000 or if it's already gone. If it's on its way, I should be back in town next Friday and try to hook everything up over the weekend (but will have to do it around family gatherings). Good thing I saved that tripod.
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post #185 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

Yeah, I got it bad. Curiosity just eats me up. And now that I'm far enough along in life that I can afford to buy what I want, I figure, what the heck.

Shouldn't be any sloppy seconds. Even if I think the 700 is close or the same, I know someone would rather have 1080p.

I have the Panasonic Blu Ray player and I just got an email from Robert that my Toshiba HD-A2 has just shipped and should be here early next week.

So when I come back next Friday, I might have 2 brand new Epson pjs and 2 high def dvd formats to compare on a 106" screen.

AND I have a Gefen HDMI splitter so I can run them at the same time! Would be a hell of a shootout!

Dude! It sounds like you got it going on over there. Blue Ray and an HD-A2 on it's way and 2 top of the line Epson's ....hmmmm, you're living way large ! I like it.

Well I don't want to put any pressure on you, but if you can indeed set this up, I think it would be very interesting to say the least.
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post #186 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

Yeah, let's see if I actually get that TW1000 or if it's already gone. If it's on its way, I should be back in town next Friday and try to hook everything up over the weekend (but will have to do it around family gatherings). Good thing I saved that tripod.

Do it around family gatherings ???
Man where are your priorities ?? Don't you realize that there's thousands of us AVS'ers impatiently waiting on this information ?? I mean it's almost a national priority. I'm sure you're family will understand if you have to cancel Xmas this year . lol
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post #187 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Black View Post

Dude! It sounds like you got it going on over there. Blue Ray and an HD-A2 on it's way and 2 top of the line Epson's ....hmmmm, you're living way large ! I like it.

Well I don't want to put any pressure on you, but if you can indeed set this up, I think it would be very interesting to say the least.

Yeah, I'm doing OK. I don't have any other hobbies though, no golf, don't drink (save thousands a year on alcohol), don't need a sportscar, etc...So every few years I buy a few electronics.

I keep checking my email every 2 minutes waiting to here from P-J to see if it's on its way or if it was gone. If it's on the way, I'll definitely do a comparo and try to take pics, although I'm not the photographer some folks here are.
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post #188 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 06:40 PM
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As a true bottom feeder, I will happily gobble up the crumbs at the table! Just can't afford the 1000 and the family.....hummmmm.......man that is a tough decision!
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post #189 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 07:05 PM
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drum roll...
"Thanks for order. I confirmed your payment. We will ship it today."

Looks like it's on! Now, I will have Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, but I do not have a gigantic catalog of titles. Currently I have Training Day, Eight Below, The Great Raid, Gone in 60 Seconds, and Black Hawk Down on Blu-Ray. I think my HD-DVD player is coming with Batman Begins and Caddyshack (not exactly a reference title, but a must have nonetheless). I'll see if I can have Netflix send a few more HD-DVD titles while I'm gone.

I also have a TiVo S3 with Time Warner Cable, and I have a Panasonic S77 upconverting DVD player (again, no huge library of titles). No HTPC, ain't gonna be no 1:1 pixel mapping stuff going on, so don't even ask.

I do have one rule, though. There will be NO "Fifth Element". I can't stand the movie and I'm so sick of the screenshots of it that I'd rather jab the remote in my eye than watch it.

I don't have light meters, calibration software, etc...all I have is DVE, and I'm not even good with that. But the Epsons are supposed to be pretty darn close out of the box. I won't measure anything except viewing distance.

This will be a real world shootout, no "golden eye" crap. No magic cables, etc... Can the regular guy see a difference between these two on regular guy equipment? That's the question. I don't care about anybody's theories and fancy math as to what should look like what.

So we'll see what I can do next weekend. I apologize for my ill-timed vacation, but who knew I'd actually be able to score a TW1000 on its release day?
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post #190 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 07:24 PM
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You lucky.... I wanted that one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

I do have one rule, though. There will be NO "Fifth Element". I can't stand the movie and I'm so sick of the screenshots of it that I'd rather jab the remote in my eye than watch it.

Then how about "Resident Evil" (or Apocalypse) so you can at least round out your Milla Jovovich quota? Nobody actually watches "5th" for the film itself.

Actually what I really want to know about this unit is how the black level is. Native panel contrast wouldn't hurt either. It seems like all we know about is the Mitsubishi 1080, which doesn't seem to be best in class (though actually being available is a major plus).
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post #191 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 07:59 PM
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Don't know how you measure native panel contrast. I can compare the D5+ panel to the D6 panel and also my old Panasonic 500 D5 or was it D4(?) panel, I'll leave it hooked up via component to make it a 3-way (but then someone will say that's not fair to the Panasonic because HDMI "clearly" gives a better picture, hint--it doesn't ). And there's also a Pioneer 60" plasma on that wall, so I can compare black levels to that as well. Should give some nice relatives, but no absolute measurements.

It's a shame the Epson is late to the party, would have been nice to have it in a review like the PJC shootout.
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post #192 of 1603 Old 12-14-2006, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire99 View Post

Actually what I really want to know about this unit is how the black level is. Native panel contrast wouldn't hurt either. It seems like all we know about is the Mitsubishi 1080, which doesn't seem to be best in class (though actually being available is a major plus).

How does one measure this without any equipment??

Ye who now will bless the poor shall yourselves find blessing.
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post #193 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 02:06 AM
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Sounds interesting.
I actually prefer non-calibrated tests if the product is adequat out-of-the-box. To me that'S the way a pj should be used. It shouldn't need calibration. Or if it does, then it should be free of charge.

Anyhow, I will be folloing this thread for updates and hope you will take some pics, even if not perfect. They just need to be good enough to see what you mean.

BTW, I like The Fifth Element. But I like more or less all Bruce movies.
Maybe you can even do a DVD v. 720p v. 1080p test.
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post #194 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 04:38 AM
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Jacksonian

Ignore my pm...I see now you really are expecting a tw1000. When does it arrive? Can you also throw into your high priority list for testing some ESPNHD and/TNTHD, etc? Actually, see if you can compare and contrast any perceived differences in 720p HD broadcast stuff like ESPNHD and ABC HD, or 1080i HD broadcast stuff like that on CBS. One of the claims for the 1080p's is that we will realize better pq on the 1080i broadcast feeds, etc.

By the way, can't believe you are going to only test this on a scrimpy 106" screen.....with all that gear, you gotta hike up your skirt and go bigger!!!! Give us a stress test baby !! lol (teasing you of course....with sarcasm)
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post #195 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 07:16 AM
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I forgot to check the tracking again this morning before I left (and left the tracking # on the home pc), but I'm guessing early next week, I have no idea how quickly DHL gets from Japan to the East Coast of the US.

I can definitely include some ESPN/ABC 720p and 1080i broadcast stuff. I have a TiVo S3 and get ESPN, INHD, TNT, HDNet, HBO via Time Warner, and I get all my locals OTA via antenna. The ABC/CBS/NBC stuff OTA is usually top notch. So I'll have plenty of stuff recorded for easy testing.

Yeah, my poor little 106" screen. I do wish it was bigger sometimes, but my wife thinks it's already big enough. Actually, I'm not sure I have enough throw room to go much bigger. I could maybe get to 110", don't think I can get to 120". But to do that would mean moving my cabinets below the screen that house all the equipment/speakers.

But we sit 12' from the 106", so that's about 1.5 screen widths.
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post #196 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

How does one measure this without any equipment??

Well honestly I wasn't thinking of the equipment on hand. But I'd go for at least a subjective observation (which is probably more useful at this point than trying to figure out 4,938:1 versus 3,418:1) between an older gen LCD and the newer ones, with all iris tricks turned off.

The only thing that scares me away from LCD still is black level, which is uber-important to me as I'm a sci-fi/space movie buff. And DLP has those darn rainbows, which leaves LCOS however we're not seeing any bargain-priced units with that tech (though the Pearl is certainly getting down there in price).

But beyond that I saw a native panel contrast figure for D6 thrown out somewhere, either here or on some review site, and it was disappointing if accurate. I'm kind of curious just to see how well the LCD technology (not iris technology) is progressing, and I don't know if it's moving along the same as the other two competitors.
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post #197 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 10:55 AM
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If black levels are uber important to you, then LCD may never meet your standards. Actually, CRT in a bat cave would be your drug of choice. I'm not expecting miracles with the new D6 panels, but I'm at least hoping to be able to see a substantial difference between the Panny 500 and the TW1000 when it comes to blacks.

And why do you want all iris tricks turned off? If they do it well, why wouldn't you want the iris in place?

Why don't you try out a Z5 from Projector People? You would know in less than the 4 lamp hours whether it was acceptable for you on the blacks and could send it back. Someone also said AVS would let you try one out, but I don't know if they carry the Z5.
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post #198 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 11:21 AM
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I'll be in NC during the first week of January... any chance that is when the shootout will be
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post #199 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 11:38 AM
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Will have to see on the dates, where are you visiting?
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post #200 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 01:19 PM
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I'm available the 2nd through the 5th and again on the 7th. I'm coming from an older Panny L300u (540x960 x/smoothscreen) so I would be VERY interested in a comparison of the latest 720p LCD to 1080p LCD!
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post #201 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 03:41 PM
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Which part of NC will you be coming to?
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post #202 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 07:57 PM
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Hickory (well, actually Valdese)... I think it would be about an hour drive or so. But it would be worth it for me! No need to schedule a shootout around my schedule, but if you are planning one around that time, I would be honored to be invited. Thanks a bunch.
-Matt
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post #203 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 08:00 PM
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Between 1-1.5 hours west of me, but an easy drive on 40. Let me see how the schedule pans out when I get back next Thursday.
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post #204 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 08:46 PM
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I drive the W NC area for a living (Medical Device Sales) that is an easy 1.5+ hour drive, most on I-40 at 70mph speed limit. But Valdese to Kernersville is probably most of that 1.5hrs.
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post #205 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Naimee View Post

Do you know that for a fact and have a source for this? Maybe they have a deeper knowledge of the matter, but I doubt if they have information they intentionally do not share which is vital to quality.

Sorry, I can't say in a public forum.

I.
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post #206 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stubeeef View Post

I drive the W NC area for a living (Medical Device Sales) that is an easy 1.5+ hour drive, most on I-40 at 70mph speed limit. But Valdese to Kernersville is probably most of that 1.5hrs.

It's worth it
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post #207 of 1603 Old 12-15-2006, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

If black levels are uber important to you, then LCD may never meet your standards. Actually, CRT in a bat cave would be your drug of choice.

I used to be a CRT guy, but it just wasn't worth the effort to deal with a 5-ton lead weight with loud(ish) fans. Plus they're dim and it's a waste to run them with 2.35:1 screens, IMO. But that's an old debate we don't want to get into.

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And why do you want all iris tricks turned off? If they do it well, why wouldn't you want the iris in place?

Just to see the differences in native panel contrast. Iris tricks are nice, but as people are saying about the RS-1/Pearl battle, iris only buys you improvements when the range of your source image's frame fits the range of the projector's contrast. Again, I'm kind of being nitpicky about what is (admittedly) a very rare effect, which is full luminance against a dark background (like a planet in space, or Gandalf's torch in a cave). That's something that I've found to be so involving in a film, that I've lived with the shortcomings of DLP just for it thus far. I want to get away from that now.

My money right now is (literally) on a Pearl, just because I think the increased native panel contrast will work, plus you get the iris so blackouts are at least near black. I wouldn't mind going to an LCD unit next year though if the performance is there (better color, better sharpness, plus it's something new).

Quote:


Why don't you try out a Z5 from Projector People? You would know in less than the 4 lamp hours whether it was acceptable for you on the blacks and could send it back. Someone also said AVS would let you try one out, but I don't know if they carry the Z5.

If the Z5 was brighter I probably would have bought one a month ago. I was very tempted, as the price is phenomenal and it seemed to get good reviews for an LCD. Still, I couldn't bring myself to buy one now since I am 90% sure I wouldn't keep it, which to me seems abusive of a return policy. If I was perhaps 60% sure I would try it out.
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post #208 of 1603 Old 12-16-2006, 09:47 PM
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anyone find a projection calculator or manual for this thing yet or it's throw ratio yet?

I'm trying to figure out what distance I'd need for a 50" high image on 1.00x zoom.

Two things are certain in life, death and expensive high-end projectors.
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post #209 of 1603 Old 12-16-2006, 11:46 PM
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Is Sanyo Z5 much brighter than Z4?

Can anybody confirm this? In fact and real comparison, not on data sheet.

As I am looking for a much brighter Projector for my 134" Carada screen. My Z4 is dim. Any suitable projector out there?
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post #210 of 1603 Old 12-17-2006, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post

Is Sanyo Z5 much brighter than Z4?

Can anybody confirm this? In fact and real comparison, not on data sheet.

As I am looking for a much brighter Projector for my 134" Carada screen. My Z4 is dim. Any suitable projector out there?

Well, this isn't a Sanyo thread, so if you want info about the Z5, you should probably ask it in a Z5 thread in the <$3000 forum.

But if you want something "much brighter" then you're looking at the Panasonic AX100 or Epson 810/700 (or maybe one of the DLP's), those 2 are the brightest we know of right now.
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