JVC DLA-RS1 questions answered! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:09 PM
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If anyone is interested in looking at the Nov. 14, Japanese Press Release spec sheet, it has the fan noise listed at 25db, not 27db as previously stated. It's not much of a difference but every little bit helps.


http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/...06/dla-hd1.pdf
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post #452 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

If anyone is interested in looking at the Nov. 14, Japanese Press Release spec sheet, it has the fan noise listed at 25db, not 27db as previously stated. It's not much of a difference but every little bit helps.


http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/...06/dla-hd1.pdf

Nice find, this is an English translation of the Japanese press release. It lists the 25db spec as "normal mode", which is where the discrepancy might come from. Perhaps normal mode is the low bulb setting.
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post #453 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:43 PM
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This is the most up-to-date spec list; inaddition to the 25 dB noise level, it lists 15,000:1 CR and 700 lumens.
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post #454 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:47 PM
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Technically, the press release does refere to it by a different model #, the DLA-HD1 and it comes in white. For all intents and purposes though, it is the sme pj.
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post #455 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:47 PM
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Normal mode on some projectors is the high mode, which would make the econo mode even more quiet. Who knows....either way, I dont see this as an issue in any way personally. Still plenty quiet.

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post #456 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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On the other hand it also shows an "aperture rate" of only 88%. I assume "aperture rate" really means "aperture ratio" which is much lower than expected from the Doi presentation. I would have expected 95% or thereabouts. It might be an error.
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post #457 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 02:55 PM
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There could be some terminology confusion going on here. There are two totally different issues that affect color accuracy and unfortunately both are sometimes wrongly (IMO) referred to as color space. The CMS discussion refers to creating/using the correct primary (and subsequently the correct complementary) colors based on the ITU Rec. 709 standard for HD, and the SMPTE-C (applies to Rec. 601 video) standard for SD. IMO, this could be referred to as the projector's native (or effective) color space or color gamut. So far we have only been talking about that issue (with respective to CMS). My comments in the Yamaha review excerpt regarding professional HD monitors still using SMPTE-C primaries also refers to that issue.

A second issue is correctly decoding YCbCr (digital) or YPbPr (analog) input signals to RGB signals. Those RGB signals are what internally (within the projector) produce the native (or pseudo) R, G, B image colors. This should be called the projector's Color Decoding Matrix, and not the projector's "color space" in my opinion. The conversion of YCbCr(YPbPr) to RGB is very different for HD (Rec. 709) and SD (Rec. 601). These standards establish the correct color encoding and decoding matrices. A projector must have both decoding matrices to be compatible with SD and HD signals.

Greg:

This is as good a description of the difference between the color gamut and color decoding as I've read. Could you expand on this a little bit, focusing on purely practical issues regarding how to identify gamut errors vs. color decoding errors and how to resolve each? For example, the RGB color bars found in Avia presumably provide, with the use of filters, a visual indication of RGB saturation and tint. If you see errors here, is this a color decoding error or a gamut error? I always thought it was a decoding error, but now I'm not sure.

One experience with this I had was when I worked with the Optoma HD3000 external video processor, which claimed a full CMS system. When I adjusted the RGBCMY values to achieve an accurate gamut as revealed on the CIE chart, the colors looked wrong, flat and very undersaturated. When I made the adjustments against the Avia color bars and filters the color looked extremely good. I determined from this experience that the Optoma CMS was not a true CMS, but rather a color matrix adjustment. Does this seem correct?

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post #458 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 03:24 PM
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What is the aperture rate exactly Mark? What does this do?

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post #459 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Aperture ratio is JVC speak for fill ratio. It's the ratio of the active pixel area to the total pixel area (including the inactive region between pixels). Mathematically it's defined as A^2/B^2 where A is the width of the active portion of the pixel and B is the width of the total pixel. The higher the fill ratio the less noticeable the pixel grid.
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post #460 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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On a completely different topic. There is some discussion on liquid crystal image smearing in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755076

While reading up on the PWM digital backplane scheme it occured to me that the new drive scheme completely removes 8-bar uniformity problems because 8-bar column addressing is no longer needed. If anyone remembers the difficulties in getting 8-bar set properly using the Dilard wizard in the old G series projectors, they know what I'm talking about.
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post #461 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 03:54 PM
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I was originally interested in the Optoma HD81, primarily because of the two piece construction that allowed me input all my video sources in the equipment cabinet and have a single HDMI video source output to the projector (RS232 not withstanding). The RS1 now looks like a better fit for my HT, and I have a couple of general questions since this is my first foray into DP territory.

1) Do all of you have VPs or digital A/Vs to handle the multiple inputs or are you running individual HDMI (2), component (1), etc cables from the sources to the RS1?

2) What VP or digital A/V receivers would you recommend if needed.

3) If you use a VP or A/V receiver, do you just use the HDMI output to send native 480i, 1080i, etc so that the RS1 scales, upconverts, and de-interlaces, or do you process in the VP first for display only on the RS1?

I hope these questions are not too mundane for the forum. I am building a HT and need to understand what equipment I need to purchase.

Thanks,

SLP
Columbia, Md.
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post #462 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

If anyone is interested in looking at the Nov. 14, Japanese Press Release spec sheet, it has the fan noise listed at 25db, not 27db as previously stated. It's not much of a difference but every little bit helps.

Keep in mind a 3db decrease is half the amount of sound. So, a 2db decrease is significant. I suspect that, when all is said and done, the JVC, in low lamp mode, will not be the loudest projector in its class. I base this on JVC's reputation for publishing conservative specifications for their projectors.

Human perception is not a direct consequence of reality, but rather an act of imagination. - Michael Faraday
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post #463 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackmack View Post

1) Do all of you have VPs or digital A/Vs to handle the multiple inputs or are you running individual HDMI (2), component (1), etc cables from the sources to the RS1?

2) What VP or digital A/V receivers would you recommend if needed.

3) If you use a VP or A/V receiver, do you just use the HDMI output to send native 480i, 1080i, etc so that the RS1 scales, upconverts, and de-interlaces, or do you process in the VP first for display only on the RS1?

Since the RS1 already includes high-quality Gennum scaling and deinterlacing, you really don't need an external device for this purpose. You might want to consider a good AV prepro to act as a switching device. The Anthem AVM40 (MSRP $3700) would be a good choice.

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post #464 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 04:29 PM
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Thanks Tom,

I will research the Anthem AVM40.
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post #465 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 04:31 PM
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If you consider the Optoma 81 and Sharp 20K, it already is not the loudest PJ in its class. Right now, atleast according to the numbers, it is midpack.

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post #466 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post

Keep in mind a 3db decrease is half the amount of sound. So, a 2db decrease is significant.

That's only in terms of the power required to produce the sound. In terms of human perception (which is logarithmic), 1db is generally the smallest difference in sound level that a human can perceive. So 2db is barely perceptible, and you'd probably never notice any difference except in a direct A/B comparison.

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post #467 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 04:34 PM
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What percentage fill ratio is the competition at? Optoma 81, Pearl, 5000, Panny 1000?

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post #468 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 09:41 PM
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I too am on the RS1 preorder and echo the importance of JVC ensuring both requests by Steppen above are included. These are:

REQUEST 1: Please give as many discrete IR codes as possible, especially those involved with different video formats or aspect ratios that could be changed depending on the video source being viewed[/quote]

REQUEST 2: Please modify the RS232 command protocol to echo the Command code bytes in the Response string.[/quote]
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post #469 of 3254 Old 11-25-2006, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackmack View Post

I was originally interested in the Optoma HD81, primarily because of the two piece construction that allowed me input all my video sources in the equipment cabinet and have a single HDMI video source output to the projector (RS232 not withstanding). The RS1 now looks like a better fit for my HT, and I have a couple of general questions since this is my first foray into DP territory.

1) Do all of you have VPs or digital A/Vs to handle the multiple inputs or are you running individual HDMI (2), component (1), etc cables from the sources to the RS1?

2) What VP or digital A/V receivers would you recommend if needed.

3) If you use a VP or A/V receiver, do you just use the HDMI output to send native 480i, 1080i, etc so that the RS1 scales, upconverts, and de-interlaces, or do you process in the VP first for display only on the RS1?

I hope these questions are not too mundane for the forum. I am building a HT and need to understand what equipment I need to purchase.

Thanks,

SLP
Columbia, Md.


While I completely agree with what Tom said I will answer your questions more directly:

1. I would guess that most of us have video processors and/or pre-pros/receivers that handle video switching duties. I personally use a video processor for a number of reasons including (i) greater flexibility than having both in the same box (ii) theoretically better sound due to less interference and (iii) much better flexibility in that my video processor has more inputs/ouputs as well as allows for greater tweakability...recommendation, if you can afford a video processor get one as you will not be disappointed.

2. As far as video processors are concerned budget always creaps in. The better known/thought of brand names include Crystallo, DVDO, and Lumagen with my preference being Lumagen. And yes to everyone else I have spent time with all three.

3. Video processos to send a 1080p signal to the RS-1. That is, if the video processor cannot do a batter job than the RS-q then do not get one...

Hope the above is helpful.

Joel
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post #470 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 12:37 AM
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"On the other hand it also shows an "aperture rate" of only 88%. I assume "aperture rate" really means "aperture ratio" which is much lower than expected from the Doi presentation. I would have expected 95% or thereabouts. It might be an error."

Or it might be part of the new chip technology. perhaps some of the increased CR was achieved by isolating the pixels a bit.

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post #471 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Technically, the press release does refere to it by a different model #, the DLA-HD1 and it comes in white. For all intents and purposes though, it is the sme pj.

JVC-Victor routinely give completely different model numbers to products sold inside Japan and those sold outside, so it's nothing to worry about.


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Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

On the other hand it also shows an "aperture rate" of only 88%. I assume "aperture rate" really means "aperture ratio" which is much lower than expected from the Doi presentation. I would have expected 95% or thereabouts. It might be an error.

I agree, it raised my eyebrow too. But I don't think it's an error. Perhaps it's the consequence of their new approach to inter-pixel gaps?

Quote:


While reading up on the PWM digital backplane scheme it occured to me that the new drive scheme completely removes 8-bar uniformity problems because 8-bar column addressing is no longer needed. If anyone remembers the difficulties in getting 8-bar set properly using the Dilard wizard in the old G series projectors, they know what I'm talking about.

And good riddance! Vertical banding is an exceptionally irritating artifact once you start seeing it, so I'm glad to see the last of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post

Keep in mind a 3db decrease is half the amount of sound. So, a 2db decrease is significant. I suspect that, when all is said and done, the JVC, in low lamp mode, will not be the loudest projector in its class. I base this on JVC's reputation for publishing conservative specifications for their projectors.

2dB is a difference in volume by about a third, but it's a barely perceivable one when you factor in the logarithmic nature of human hearing. Still, no complaints.
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post #472 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 02:29 AM
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A change of 11dB roughly corresponds to a perceived doubling/halving of volume. If anyone disagrees with this, please take it up with Bob Stuart at Meridian, not me!

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post #473 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post

Keep in mind a 3db decrease is half the amount of sound.

No, 3 dB is half the output power. The perceived volume decrease is much smaller, on the order of about 10%. To get 'half' the volume requires a roughly 10 dB reduction in output power.
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post #474 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post

Keep in mind a 3db decrease is half the amount of sound. So, a 2db decrease is significant. I suspect that, when all is said and done, the JVC, in low lamp mode, will not be the loudest projector in its class. I base this on JVC's reputation for publishing conservative specifications for their projectors.

You are confusing input power with sound output level. The ratio of input power to sound output level is logarithmic. Half the input power results in a 3db decrease in sound output level. Most people cannot tell the difference in a 1 db change in sound output level. Most people could probably just be able to tell the difference in a 2db change with 3db being detected as a very small change in sound output level. Reducing the input power be a factor of 10 results in a 10 db reduction. It is generally agreed that a 10 db change is perceived as "half" the sound output. The net result of this is that 3db is not much of a perceived difference.
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post #475 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 10:11 AM
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On the fence between picking Pearl or JVC DLA-RS1 -- just came across a post with Pearl owner having problems with dust blobs .

I know that LCD PJs are prone to problems with dust blobs / dead pixels. What about RS1 ? Is it possible for it to develop DB/DP problem ?

Thanks for your help, Davie.
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post #476 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 10:26 AM
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What's up eclipse98? I am in Denver as well

The JVC warranty for the RS1 does cover dead pixels, but to what extent I dont know.

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post #477 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 11:08 AM
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Do we know whether the optics are sealed or not? This would eliminate dust blob problem-
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post #478 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigga View Post

Do we know whether the optics are sealed or not? This would eliminate dust blob problem-

This was covered on the first post of this thread:

"Sealed optics? - The panels are sealed but the optics are filtered similar to the HD10K, HD2K, etc.".
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post #479 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"On the other hand it also shows an "aperture rate" of only 88%. I assume "aperture rate" really means "aperture ratio" which is much lower than expected from the Doi presentation. I would have expected 95% or thereabouts. It might be an error."

Or it might be part of the new chip technology. perhaps some of the increased CR was achieved by isolating the pixels a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled View Post

I agree, it raised my eyebrow too. But I don't think it's an error. Perhaps it's the consequence of their new approach to inter-pixel gaps?

I'm still hopeful that it's a misprint. The new technology should help to increase the fill ratio rather than to reduce it. When I looked at the pixel grid of the RS1 at the Expo, it seemed less pronounced than what I remember from my HD2K even though it was being displayed on a larger effective screen size (compared to my HD2K at home). As I mentioned in my comments though, focus has a lot to do with it and I wasn't able to directly compare it with the HD10K because the 10K used an anamorphic lens. Another thing about JVC's fill ratio numbers - with the last generation of panels, JVC quoted various numbers for fill ratios (usually 88%-93%) with the exact same panels.
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post #480 of 3254 Old 11-26-2006, 11:41 AM
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What is SXRD at as far as fill ratio? Surely it cant be a significant, noticable difference.

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