I think I need a new screen for the Beast! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I'm intrigued by the latest Stewart offerings: the FireHawk SST, designed with the Ruby in mind, and the new FireHawk G3.

Currently, I've got the Da-lite Matte Gray screen, and since my 004 was updated & calibrated, I've noticed that there is a subtle blue cast in dark areas, and a general muddyingf of near black. BTW, the new gamma curves installed with the 004 1080p update improve black crush, so I see more detail in low light areas, but this is showing the limits of the old Da-lite screen.

Both these new FireHawks sound great butI'm wondering:
Am I gonna notice an improvement that justifies what will be a considerable cost?

You experience is requested - thanks! :D

J.Mike
Those who die with the most toys ... are still dead!
J.Mike Ferrara is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 08:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 461
I doubt the SST would be right for you. As I understand it, it was designed with a bunch of compromises to offset the less than best viewing environment that Sony assumed many many Pearl owners would have. The G3 would be a bteer choice for you. If I remember, you have very good viewing conditions. Also i think it would better match your projector's bulb.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 10:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
jjw350z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 512
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you have a very good viewing setup, why not get a ST130 or some other form of "invisible" screen... and let your projector do the work.

Jim
jjw350z is offline  
post #4 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 01:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 461
Not wanting to start a flame war. But perhaps the gray might be needed to improve the blacks. Mike will be getting a variety of screen materials from Stewart to test shortly. Depending on the blacks with a white screen, Studeotech130 might be a better choice.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
Not wanting to start a flame war. But perhaps the gray might be needed to improve the blacks. Mike will be getting a variety of screen materials from Stewart to test shortly. Depending on the blacks with a white screen, Studeotech130 might be a better choice.
From what I understand, the G3 is superior in eliminating reflections. This would be a factor to consider in my HT. I have control of light, but it's definately not a cave - on purpose; below is the current Da-Mat:
http://jmikef.com/images/da-mat_screen.jpg
A shot of the 004 being hung:
http://jmikef.com/Qualia_hang2.jpg

J.Mike
Those who die with the most toys ... are still dead!
J.Mike Ferrara is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 04:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 461
Yep. With white walls and ceiling you want a Firehawk. G3 should do the trick.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 04:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JlgLaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Agree with Mark. I'm using the FH G2 in a room similar to yours and the screen is excellent paired with the Ruby. It should be better with your 004. (and the G3 is supposed to be an improvement over the G2, but I'm not sure why.)

Jim
JlgLaw is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 04:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dream1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rio Rancho, NM.
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OT: The 004 is stil the sexiest PJ out there!

I hope you find the right screen.

That is all I have to add.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Xbox Live Gamer Tag:
DreamKill
Dream1 is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 07:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 461
The bigest change with the G3 over the G2 is the lack of speckles on the screen surface. Though the speckles didn't affect the image, on close inspection of the fabric consumers could see them and would think their screen was defective.The G3 is a reformulation of the sprayed on reflective coating and presents on close inspection no speckles. Fixes something that wsn't really broken but eliminates a lot of complaints. :)

Stewart screens are made with one of two fabrics. A white and a gray. Once the fabric is chosen, the various models within those fabrics depends on the sprayed on reflective coating. Amazing what you learn on a plant tour.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 12-13-2006, 07:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tryg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Washington
Posts: 9,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Mike. Painting your room a darker color will make a bigger improvement than a new screen

Screen Reviews

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tryg is offline  
post #11 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 04:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
Mike. Painting your room a darker color will make a bigger improvement than a new screen
You are the 2nd person to say that. Again, I don't want the cave look. What would darker walls do to improve the picture (esp color balance)? I though a gray matte screen would reject reflections, and the FireHawk would be even better at cross rejections. I must be missing something.

J.Mike
Those who die with the most toys ... are still dead!
J.Mike Ferrara is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 05:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DanHouck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lake Chapala, old Mexico
Posts: 4,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mike, FWIW, I had somewhat of a reflection problem in my HT due to smooth finished structolite plaster walls. I found the first generation Firehawk to do a much better job of rejecting reflections. However, not sure you would want any gain in a room that size with the lumens the Qualia puts out.

Maybe you need a bigger screen! Like wall to wall! :D

Time for me to pay a return visit to your house. I gotta see this beast in action.

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
DanHouck is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck
Mike, FWIW, I had somewhat of a reflection problem in my HT due to smooth finished structolite plaster walls. I found the first generation Firehawk to do a much better job of rejecting reflections. However, not sure you would want any gain in a room that size with the lumens the Qualia puts out.

Maybe you need a bigger screen! Like wall to wall! :D

Time for me to pay a return visit to your house. I gotta see this beast in action.
Me Casa Su Casa.
It would be good to see you again - we can whine how the 'Skins suck. Are you in town this season?

J.Mike
Those who die with the most toys ... are still dead!
J.Mike Ferrara is offline  
post #14 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tryg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Washington
Posts: 9,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mike Ferrara
You are the 2nd person to say that. Again, I don't want the cave look. What would darker walls do to improve the picture (esp color balance)? I though a gray matte screen would reject reflections, and the FireHawk would be even better at cross rejections. I must be missing something.
You can stop room reflections where they happen...at the walls/ceiling. Darker paint doesn't mean paint them black.... just darker. Pick a nice neutral color and go with it. It will also make your room look bigger. This is a far easier, more effective, and less expensive than believing a new screen will solve this problem.

Screens are not miracle workers

Screen Reviews

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tryg is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 07:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Vern Dias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Allen TX USA
Posts: 4,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'll second Tryg's comment. You have just about the worst case scenario there. The white ceiling and light colored walls are going to destroy your effective contrast ratio regardless of the screen you choose.

Fix the environment first, if you are still not satisfied with the image, then spend the $ for the screen.

Just my $.02

Vern
Vern Dias is offline  
post #16 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 07:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andrikos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 3,911
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
It will also make your room look bigger.
Painting a room DARKER will make it look BIGGER?
Surely you jest.


J.Mike, if you go the route of buying a new screen, definitely go bigger!

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Andrikos is offline  
post #17 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 07:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CaspianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Land of Cardinals
Posts: 5,841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Agree. I had a PJ for a long time in a similar room. Recently moved everything to a new room with mid color walls and dark ceiling. The difference was substantial. you will be surprised. On a different note if painting the room is not an option have some one build a black shadow box around the screen which can also hide the speakers if wished.

You will see a much better ansi CR among other things.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

Custom dedicated 8 seat theater

CaspianM is offline  
post #18 of 50 Old 12-14-2006, 10:24 PM
Senior Member
 
rick e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: berkeley, ca.
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Another possibility is to try a lime wash paint.
We used this and I think it can be useful.
Lime wash is flatter than flat latex paint. I didn't want a dark color since this is in our living room.
We also had the wood ceiling sandblasted which gave it a somewhat rough texture and made it utterly reflectionless.
When the latex paint is made, instead of adding acrylic they add powdered limestone. Our painter considers himself an artist and used a large brush and an arcing/sweeping motion.
The resulting paint can have a suede look depending on the mode of application.

Rick
rick e is offline  
post #19 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 01:26 AM
Member
 
Fredrik Rasmussen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I want to add something J. Mike,

I recently changed from FireHawk G1 to ST130 G3.

Going by your room shot of the screen and sofa. It should have a different height placement if you decide to go with the FireHawk. Your center speaker is very low height so it can easily be accomodated. Strive for having 1/3 of the screen height below your eyes. The FH has a 30 degrees half gain angle vs ST130 a 75 degrees wide half gain angle.

On the other hand, I would wouch for Studiotek 130 G3 with your fine projector. The Firehawk doesn't have the same color fidelity as the ST130 and that is what I would like to bring forward with a Xenon powered projector.

Painting your room slightly darker and matte will help all screens.
Fredrik Rasmussen is online now  
post #20 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 03:57 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Definitely invest in darker paint first. Then if you are not happy look at another screen... Tyrg is right! ;)

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
joerod is offline  
post #21 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
Definitely invest in darker paint first. Then if you are not happy look at another screen... Tyrg is right! ;)
Everyone - thanks for the excellent advice. Ain't AVS great or what. :D

I've decided to try re-painting the theater. I just got a discount coupon from a firm I've used before (they are the best in Northern VA) in the mail this week, so the 'gods' are telling me to paint first. I'm looking at the suede line of paints available at Home Depot.

J.Mike
Those who die with the most toys ... are still dead!
J.Mike Ferrara is offline  
post #22 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 06:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
J. Mike, I have Behr's "Black Suede" flat finish from Home Depot on my ceilings and it's great at knocking the ambient light reflections down.

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #23 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 06:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DanHouck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lake Chapala, old Mexico
Posts: 4,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mike, I've given up in complete despair when it comes to the 'skins. :)

You could use a bigger screen if you could figure out how to get the speakers out of the way.

I continue to be amazed at how well my Firehawk works with every projector I've tried on it.

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
DanHouck is offline  
post #24 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jacksonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Summerfield, NC
Posts: 4,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare
J. Mike, I have Behr's "Black Suede" flat finish from Home Depot on my ceilings and it's great at knocking the ambient light reflections down.
So your ceiling is actually black? Wow, that's what I call dedication.
jacksonian is offline  
post #25 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 10:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JHouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Richmond, Texas (Southwesternish burb of Houston)
Posts: 4,320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I put a dark carpet in (with a pattern like a hotel lobby) and it made a pretty good sized difference.

I tried that Ralph Lauren suede paint and it takes a LOT of skill to put it on where it looks decent, and it doesn't cover worth a darn (took three coats). Careful with those "looks" and "textures". You NEED an artist.

Actually just a tan or taupe walls can work wonders. Taupe is probably better as it is a cross between brown and gray and isn't as depressing as pure gray.

I really like the flat/limestone idea too.

And the bigger screen idea.

And the lower screen idea.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

JHouse is offline  
post #26 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 10:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jacksonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Summerfield, NC
Posts: 4,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have milk chocolate colored walls, but a white ceiling and light carpet. I just can't do the cave look.
jacksonian is offline  
post #27 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 11:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 461
Few realize how important it is to have a cave. The viewing environment often determines what screen is appropriate. That said dark non reflective tones are indicated. It doesn't have to black. My ceiling is totally black but there are a variety of blacks, Different squares. Some dark tile, some absorbtive and covered in black grill cloths and some no grill cloth. KInd of decorative. Walls are dark gray fabric with subtle black design, fabric covers a variet of absorbtive, reflective (but base absorbtive), and diffusion.


My mistake was a dark navy carpet. Reflective and glows. I covered the carpeted stage with black felt. HUGH improvement (the screen is close to the stage elevation) Someday I will switch to black carpet but almost all carpet, even black, is somewhat reflective due to the synthetics it is made from.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #28 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 11:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jacksonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Summerfield, NC
Posts: 4,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No can do cave, will accept tradeoffs in image quality.
jacksonian is offline  
post #29 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 05:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
So your ceiling is actually black? Wow, that's what I call dedication.
It's actually black ceilings with red soffits.

The black upper ceiling is flat Black Suede, the soffits are eggshell Chianti Red, except for right above the screen, which is also Chianti Red, but in flat.

Other shots in my website you see there show what it looks like under different lighting conditions.

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #30 of 50 Old 12-15-2006, 05:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
No can do cave, will accept tradeoffs in image quality.
Yeah, ours isn't a "cave" either... but given that it was "bounus" space we opted to do a darker theme.... but it's not a dedicated theater... it's plenty usable for cards, games, sports, etc...

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
Closed Thread Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off