Panasonic PTAE-1000U...Update...:0) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 03:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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From Projector Central....

NOTICE [Thurs, 12/14]: We have received a second AE1000 that incorporates improvements that were not present in the unit we used for the original review. We are currently evaluating it, and plan to update this review shortly. In particular, the softness we noticed in the HD image has been eliminated on the new unit. So we expect to be increasing the 5-star rating accordingly. Thank you for your patience. [EP]

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae1000.htm
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post #2 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 04:58 AM
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I wonder how this thing has been selling after Projector Central and Projector Reviews lukewarm reviews. Its been shipping for a couple of weeks now and there have been no user reports here that I've seen.
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post #3 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 05:54 AM
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I wonder how widely has it been shipping really until now? Any reports on stocks?

I have one detail from Europe:

In Finland the first reports of arrivals to shops came yesterday. It wasn't available until now, although Panasonic did promise first of Dec originally. The above-mentioned review sites refer to pre-production models and replacements arriving mid-December for re-test... Maybe people are just now getting it?
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post #4 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 06:45 AM
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I just dont see this projector getting much attention at all considering all the other options. Smoothscreen on a 1080p is a complete mistake IMO. I guess some people will still consider this unit, but I cant see any reason why honestly.

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post #5 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 07:27 AM
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Yes, I am having a hard time considering this projector with Smooth Screen Tech. The whole point of 1080P LCD was to finally get rid of SDE without any magic. I don't get it.

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post #6 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 07:35 AM
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This story is plausible, yet suspicious. I believe PJC has gone back and revised comments in the past on a Sony pj before that had a really dim bulb or something, haven't they?

But based on the shootout's summary comments, if they did indeed correct the softness, then wouldn't that make the Panasonic their favorite pj out of the bunch?
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post #7 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 08:36 AM
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PJC could very well rank the panny at the top come Monday when he is supposed to post his findings with the new update unit. I'm interested to see what he says about it. I currently have a panasonic L300U that I bought back when it first came out. I've managed to hold off the upgrade bug until now. I'm ready to make the 1080 jump and I was pretty much sold on the mitsubishi after the poor reviews of the AE1000. Hopefully panasonic realized they f'ed up and decided to correct the issue. If so, next year I will definitely be getting one once it drops in price a little.
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post #8 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Smoothscreen on a 1080p is a complete mistake IMO. I guess some people will still consider this unit, but I cant see any reason why honestly.

I've been saying this for awhile. Smoothscreen was even a mistake on the their 720P projectors also. SDE disappears at a propper sitting distance. With my old HS10 SDE disappeared at less that one screen length - but softness and dithering artifacts are bothersome no matter where you sit.

I couldn't believe it when I heard they were actually going to include smoothscreen on their 1080P machine. Hopefully Panny's ditched smoothscreen completely and left it alone or moved to MLA which they used prior (and the Mits 5000 uses now).
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post #9 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 09:09 AM
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Perhaps the update allows you to turn off smoothscreen, and that is why it is now so much sharper? Is smoothscreen a software feature or hardware?
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post #10 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 09:26 AM
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No, it's hardware. I would say it's highly unlikely that smoothscreen has been removed.
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post #11 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 09:30 AM
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" Perhaps the update allows you to turn off smoothscreen, and that is why it is now so much sharper? Is smoothscreen a software feature or hardware? "

Hardware, you can't just turn it off. Very unlikely they redesigned the optic block at this late stage.

Per the PJC review the Pannys were sharpest of all on SD but softer on HD. If SS was screwing up the picture wouldn't it be screwing up the picture for all sources since it is physically in the optic block all the time?

The lack of sharpness on HD could have been something else entirelly... like double scaling or something along those lines.

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post #12 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 09:40 AM
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I thought smoothscreen, like MLA, is another panel/lens installed prior to the optical lens that refocused the image (in varying ways). So it would seem a simple "fix" for Panasonic to just pull that thing out. Heck, some of you tweakers might even be able to do that, if you had the gumption, that is.

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post #13 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 10:22 AM
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Lets not burry the unborn foetus yet.

What totally gets me is why only one year warranty, and so many enduser QC complaints on their earlier models?
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post #14 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 10:35 AM
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Well, does anybody actually have one of these yet to give us any feedback?
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post #15 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 10:54 AM
 
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I disagree. I thought that the smoothscreen was great with the 720p projectors. While I agree that sitting far back would take care of Screendoor, not everyone has that option.
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post #16 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 11:11 AM
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So far, I've only had Panasonic pjs with smoothscreen, so I don't have a good comparison. But next week I'm getting an Epson 1080p and 720p and I'll compare the 720p directly with the Panasonic 720p and see what kind of effect smoothscreen is having.
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post #17 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

I disagree. I thought that the smoothscreen was great with the 720p projectors. While I agree that sitting far back would take care of Screendoor, not everyone has that option.

Me too, but I question the need for one in 1080p devices.
For 720p I looked at Panasonic *because* of Smoothscreen with 1080 I will look away unless it surprises me.

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post #18 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 12:54 PM
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http://www.projectorreviews.com/
are saying the same thing, better and sharper.
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post #19 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 03:29 PM
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Ok so they fixed the percieved sharpness issue. But what about the shading (incorrectly referred to as color balance) problem?

That to me is a far larger issue than the sharpness.

And no it's not "shipping damage". We evaluated one at work and found the same problem even before I read the review posted here. Panasonic balked that we were being too picky over a $5000 projector but still I think it's far too much shading error considering the competition at the $5K price point.

However unlike most sub $30K projectors it can do P3 color space which makes it very desirable for low cost digital cinema compliant projection such as on set. That's why we are interested at this price point.

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post #20 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 04:11 PM
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quote from projector central:

UPDATE [Fri, 12/15]: The original review of the Panasonic AE1000 was published on November 17 based on a late generation pre-production sample. We received a final production unit on Wednesday, December 13 which incorporates several important enhancements that were not present in the sample previously reviewed. All production units that have been shipped contain the updates, so buyers need not be concerned about whether a unit they get from a dealer is up to final standards.

The primary concern we had with the original unit we tested was a softness in the HD image. Due to this flaw we had rated the AE1000 4 stars in performance. However, Panasonic changed the lens and lens housing in the final production unit, and the softness problem has been completely eliminated. Its HD image is now as sharp as any 1080p projector we have seen to date. Accordingly, the performance rating has been raise to 5.0 stars, and the value rating, previously at 4.5, has been raised to 5.0.

With the last minute improvements to the final production models, Panasonic has delivered a phenomenal projector that stands out as a truly remarkable achievement, especially in light of its aggressive price point of $3,999. We are pleased to give it our strongest possible recommendation. [EP
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post #21 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Ok so they fixed the percieved sharpness issue. But what about the shading (incorrectly referred to as color balance) problem?

That to me is a far larger issue than the sharpness.

Particularily if B&W is part of your repertoire.

This seems to be a common problem with LC based tech requiring sophisticated processing to ameliorate. Uniformity quality is a big reason to wait for the JVC. It is surprising that Panasonic would be dismissive given that at $5K it is not too much of a stretch for the JVC considering that many of us will keep these things for more than a year or two.

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post #22 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abc999 View Post

quote from projector central:

UPDATE [Fri, 12/15]: The original review of the Panasonic AE1000 was published on November 17 based on a late generation pre-production sample. We received a final production unit on Wednesday, December 13 which incorporates several important enhancements that were not present in the sample previously reviewed. All production units that have been shipped contain the updates, so buyers need not be concerned about whether a unit they get from a dealer is up to final standards.

The primary concern we had with the original unit we tested was a softness in the HD image. Due to this flaw we had rated the AE1000 4 stars in performance. However, Panasonic changed the lens and lens housing in the final production unit, and the softness problem has been completely eliminated. Its HD image is now as sharp as any 1080p projector we have seen to date. Accordingly, the performance rating has been raise to 5.0 stars, and the value rating, previously at 4.5, has been raised to 5.0.

With the last minute improvements to the final production models, Panasonic has delivered a phenomenal projector that stands out as a truly remarkable achievement, especially in light of its aggressive price point of $3,999. We are pleased to give it our strongest possible recommendation. [EP

Doesn't say a word about the shading issue. It's not just about sharpness.

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post #23 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 04:25 PM
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You guys are killing me I can't wait to see the Holy Grail, I mean the JVC get ripped apart like an antelope on the Serengeti plains.
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post #24 of 509 Old 12-15-2006, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The PTAE-1000P is bad to the bone!...As far as I'm concerned for 3999.99 it can't be touched... Keep your JVC and your Mits and your Pearl...My moneys on the Panny!....
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post #25 of 509 Old 12-16-2006, 04:39 AM
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I was strongly considering the AE1000, but the native contrast of the D6 panels worries me. People are measuring the on/off contrast of the HC5000 at only 700-800:1 without auto iris. That's slightly worse than the AE900 I have now. I thought C2Fine was supposed to yield much better contrast so what happened?

Plus the AE1000 is currently more expensive than the Pearl, which I probably would have gotten if it had a more flexible lens shift.
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post #26 of 509 Old 12-16-2006, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfb View Post

I was strongly considering the AE1000, but the native contrast of the D6 panels worries me. People are measuring the on/off contrast of the HC5000 at only 700-800:1 without auto iris. That's slightly worse than the AE900 I have now. I thought C2Fine was supposed to yield much better contrast so what happened?

Plus the AE1000 is currently more expensive than the Pearl, which I probably would have gotten if it had a more flexible lens shift.

I have both the PTAE-900U and the PTAE-1000U and I will tell you there is no comparison in black levels...The black on the Panny 1000 is inky, inky, black...Outer space shots look incredible!...and the colors leap off the screen. I do not understand why the Panny is not getting more attention...It is cheaper than the Mits and a better projector IMO...The Pearl is older now so thats why the price is down...in less than a year you will be able to get the Panny for 2499.99 Mark my words...
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post #27 of 509 Old 12-16-2006, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckken View Post

I have both the PTAE-900U and the PTAE-1000U and I will tell you there is no comparison in black levels...The black on the Panny 1000 is inky, inky, black...Outer space shots look incredible!...and the colors leap off the screen. I do not understand why the Panny is not getting more attention...It is cheaper than the Mits and a better projector IMO...The Pearl is older now so thats why the price is down...in less than a year you will be able to get the Panny for 2499.99 Mark my words...


I think it's mainly that Panasonic's AE1000U doesn't offer anything attractive in comparison to other 1080p competition. It's quite dim in calibrated mode / cinema mode so unless they changed the lamp and lumen output (which they haven't) and removed smoothscreen (which they haven't) it's just not something most buyers are going to flock to. Once you get into the 4k range, there's lots of better choices.

Quote from projectorcentral.com on the 1000U

"These are labeled "Cinema 1" and "Cinema 2." Both of these calibrations produced about 250 ANSI lumens, again with the zoom lens at its brightest setting and lamp on high.

Since the zoom lens setting can reduce light output by as much as 45%, the precalibrated "Hollywood" optimized modes could come in under 150 ANSI lumens if the projector was installed at its maximum throw distance from the screen. This is not enough light for anything but a small screen of 80" diagonal or less.

Quote from projectorreviews.com on the 1000U

"The Cinema 1 mode comes across as the best preset mode for movie watching. In full power mode, we measured an expectedly not very bright 295 lumens. Drop into low power, and lumens drop to 236, an almost perfect 20% drop."


Compare this to say for example the Mits 5000

Quote from projectorreviews.com

"First, in " best" mode, with the HC5000BL projector in full (Standard) power, Cinema (gamma), and Color Temp set based on my calibration (see calibration section), the HC5000BL measured a very reasonable 480 lumens. Dropping to low power, brightness decreased by approximately 23% to 371 lumens.

Joe
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post #28 of 509 Old 12-16-2006, 12:55 PM
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Glimme, what did you find troubling in the shading issues this was having? I'm considering one of these for 1080p color work & am having trouble locating a unit in LA to test.

What conclusions did you arrive upon from your evaluations?

Also, do people here recommend a non-gain screen for better color fidelity?
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post #29 of 509 Old 12-16-2006, 02:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfb View Post

I was strongly considering the AE1000, but the native contrast of the D6 panels worries me. People are measuring the on/off contrast of the HC5000 at only 700-800:1 without auto iris. That's slightly worse than the AE900 I have now. I thought C2Fine was supposed to yield much better contrast so what happened?

Plus the AE1000 is currently more expensive than the Pearl, which I probably would have gotten if it had a more flexible lens shift.


The native contrast of the new Panny and Mits sucks to be blunt The smoothscreen is a deal breaker on the Panny. This is not needed in 1080p and will degrade the PQ to some level. Of course if you never compare side by side to the 5000 which does not have the smoothscreen you will probably be oblivious and therefore happy. Throw in the superior processing of the 5000 and I honestly dont see how anyone would consider the Panny at all.
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post #30 of 509 Old 12-16-2006, 04:32 PM
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Which is brighter, the AE900U or the AE1000U or are they the same?

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