JVC RS-1 or HD-1 at CES - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post

My concern and question:
Is this JVC (or any other 1080p projector) BRIGHT enough for a 134" screen.
My Z4 is way too dim !

Maybe you should be looking at this monster! It will light up anything but you better warm up your wallet first.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782139

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Old 01-09-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Kolson thanks for the reply. Could you please comment on how the sharpness and pop that the S3 has compares to the JVC?

The JVC is clearly better, by a fair margin. I picked the S3 because it was so much better than the then-current LCOS in this area. JVC has now passed it by and I would rate the JVC comparable on this dimension to the best of the current single chip DLP. I then pick the JVC as winner because of the smoother, more film-like, and more stable picture.

KO
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wet1 View Post

Maybe I missed it, but was it stated how many hours were on the bulb?

They didn't say and I didn't ask. It is one of the pre-production units (not just a prototype), so I assume the lamp was pretty young.

Incidentally, I'll comment that the "fit and finish" of the projector is beautiful. The main case is a nice-looking glossy piano black, with the front matte to reduce reflections. One of the nicest looking projectors I've seen.

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Old 01-09-2007, 10:46 AM
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Thanks KO, I look forward to seeing it with my own eyes (in my house!)
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolson View Post

They didn't say and I didn't ask. It is one of the pre-production units (not just a prototype), so I assume the lamp was pretty young.

Incidentally, I'll comment that the "fit and finish" of the projector is beautiful. The main case is a nice-looking glossy piano black, with the front matte to reduce reflections. One of the nicest looking projectors I've seen.

KO

Thanks for the report kolson. Can you please comment on the sharpness and the crispness? How does it compare to your Marantz? How does it compare to the Pearl/Ruby if you've ever seen those? Was their a lot of depth to the image?
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks for the report kolson. Can you please comment on the sharpness and the crispness? How does it compare to your Marantz? How does it compare to the Pearl/Ruby if you've ever seen those? Was their a lot of depth to the image?

He just did, didn't he?

Thanks for your reports kolson.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:25 PM
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A bit OT, but if you saw the new slim LCOS RPTVs at JVC's booth, what were your impressions?
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

He just did, didn't he?

Thanks for your reports kolson.

No. Above he comments on overall impressions compared to the Martanz but does not specifically compare the sharpness and crispness of the image.
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:52 PM
 
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it looked like he commented specifically on the sharpness.

"Originally Posted by Spizz
Kolson thanks for the reply. Could you please comment on how the sharpness and pop that the S3 has compares to the JVC?


The JVC is clearly better, by a fair margin. I picked the S3 because it was so much better than the then-current LCOS in this area. JVC has now passed it by and I would rate the JVC comparable on this dimension to the best of the current single chip DLP. I then pick the JVC as winner because of the smoother, more film-like, and more stable picture.

KO"
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:06 PM
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Many in this forum consider a "smoother, more film-like" picture as less than sharp. The desciption in quotes implies a soft picture.

Krister
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it looked like he commented specifically on the sharpness.

"Originally Posted by Spizz
Kolson thanks for the reply. Could you please comment on how the sharpness and pop that the S3 has compares to the JVC?


The JVC is clearly better, by a fair margin. I picked the S3 because it was so much better than the then-current LCOS in this area. JVC has now passed it by and I would rate the JVC comparable on this dimension to the best of the current single chip DLP. I then pick the JVC as winner because of the smoother, more film-like, and more stable picture.

KO"


Oh thanks I totally missed that!! This is very encouraging indeed to hear he thinks the RS1 is just as sharp as DLP and as an owner of an S3 he has a great reference point for sharpness to begin with! Nice.
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Oh thanks I totally missed that!! This is very encouraging indeed to hear he thinks the RS1 is just as sharp as DLP and as an owner of an S3 he has a great reference point for sharpness to begin with! Nice.

An 3-chip Lcos design will NEVER be remotely as sharp as a 1-chip DLP with good optics - simple physics. Sadly confirmed by my dealer who attended one of those famous HD1/RS-1 vs. Pearl shootouts. His words: "It is smooth. It is film-like. It is a typical Lcos. I like it." - well, I don't. I MUCH prefer some "nasty digital but crisp and defined look".

Could we please finally stop this "just as sharp as DLP" madness now
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:08 PM
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Give it up Lion. I think JVC is going to make TheLion cry.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:09 PM
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Sharpness is subjective. You are entitled to your opinion as is kolson.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

An 3-chip Lcos design will NEVER be remotely as sharp as a 1-chip DLP

TheLion, you seem compelled to state this in every thread related to the RS-1. Why is that? You've raised this point countless times and everyone keeps replying with the same answer. 3-chip LCOS resolves 1920x1080 exceedingly well. Not quite as well as 1-chip DLP but still very well. We're probably talking about a difference in MTF at 1080p of at most 15%. Yet in every thread you use words like those above, "NEVER be remotely as sharp". This is an exaggeration of the facts. Not only is it an exaggeration but it's also technically incorrect because it's quite possible that 4k LCOS is sharper @ 1080p than 1-chip DLP and it certainly resolves 4k resolutions whereas 1-chip DLP does not. You may think that this is an apples to orange comparison but LCOS has always had a cost/resolution advantage over DLP because the architecture is simpler and easier to drive. Now that 1080p DLP is here, it wouldn't surprise me to see LCOS push the resolution limits beyond 1080p. I have no problem if you prefer the slight sharpness advantage of 1-chip 1080p DLP over current 1080p LCOS but many who dislike rainbows and dithering noise don't feel that this is an acceptable tradeoff for the slight increase in sharpness. If you feel compelled to talk about 1-chip DLP in every RS1 thread at least try and present a balanced outlook.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:27 PM
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How about a general comparison between 3-chip DLP vs 3-chip LCOS ?
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Give it up Lion. I think JVC is going to make TheLion cry.

he has a broken disc

i remember someone saying his Pany 100 looked miles better than a 8" crt
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

TheLion, you seem compelled to state this in every thread related to the RS-1. Why is that? You've raised this point countless times and everyone keeps replying with the same answer. 3-chip LCOS resolves 1920x1080 exceedingly well. Not quite as well as 1-chip DLP but still very well. We're probably talking about a difference in MTF at 1080p of at most 15%. Yet in every thread you use words like those above, "NEVER be remotely as sharp". This is an exaggeration of the facts. Not only is it an exaggeration but it's also technically incorrect because it's quite possible that 4k LCOS is sharper @ 1080p than 1-chip DLP and it certainly resolves 4k resolutions whereas 1-chip DLP does not. You may think that this is an apples to orange comparison but LCOS has always had a cost/resolution advantage over DLP because the architecture is simpler and easier to drive. Now that 1080p DLP is here, it wouldn't surprise me to see LCOS push the resolution limits beyond 1080p. I have no problem if you prefer the slight sharpness advantage of 1-chip 1080p DLP over current 1080p LCOS but many who dislike rainbows and dithering noise don't feel that this is an acceptable tradeoff for the slight increase in sharpness. If you feel compelled to talk about 1-chip DLP in every RS1 thread at least try and present a balanced outlook.

Mark,

"present a balanced outlook" - I strongly prefer Lcos as a technology with all its picture parameters compared to DLP (especially 1-chip DLP). The JVC HD-1/RS-1 is the least compromised, natural and almost perfect choice for most people looking for a new FP right now. Perhaps the only advantage DLP still holds is it's IMHO (!!!) clearly and utterly superior definition, "perceived sharpness" and inter-pixel/intra-scene/ANSI contrast. That's probably the last thing DLP has going for it. If you take this away by claiming "the RS-1 is just as sharp as a good DLP" it is not only IMHO far, far from the actual truth but also makes the JVC not only the "best choice" but the "perfect choice". Nobody in his right mind would choose anything else but the RS-1 (including myself obviously) from now forth if it really combines all it's obvious advantages with the best DLP can do in the "sharpness/crispness/punch" department. People don't like compromises. People love to believe that there is a perfect choice out there. This is the very concept of "hype". And anybody who wants to bring some sense back into the discussion and claims that this new messiah will look just like any Lcos before it with a bit more On/Off contrast doesn't make himself very popular So the JVC will be the perfect projector. It will be a LCOS with the On/Off of a CRT, the colorimetry of the XENON charged Ruby and the definition and punch of the best DLPs - and all that for <$5000. Isn't belief just a wonderful thing.
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Old 01-09-2007, 05:41 PM
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I love these charged threads. Not
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:17 PM
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"a bit more on/off", try 6 X more!
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:23 PM
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Keep it up Lion, your making my RS1 delivery wait go faster. Just don't mess to much with Bulldogger.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post

Keep it up Lion, your making my RS1 delivery wait go faster. Just don't mess to much with Bulldogger.

OK, here is a tiny pre CES RS1 tidbit since there is nothing new here..
I spoke with William (Phelps) just before he left for Vegas, his sample JVC in tow.
Friday I had a chance to his lab and see it but I didn't make it.
William told me I'm going to love it and one of his comments was (the tid-bit) "I think you're gonna like it! Man, when there is a fade to black, you just about fall into the screen.... "

Hey, I know not much new there but a step above the bickering .
I'll probably go see it when he gets back in town, but only if he buys lunch.

Now that coming from wm is some VERY encouraging news!

Cheers
Chris

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Old 01-09-2007, 07:03 PM
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I am disappointed that we don't have any other AVSer's reporting on the RS1 at CES in this thread!
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Mark,

"present a balanced outlook" - I strongly prefer Lcos as a technology with all its picture parameters compared to DLP (especially 1-chip DLP). The JVC HD-1/RS-1 is the least compromised, natural and almost perfect choice for most people looking for a new FP right now. Perhaps the only advantage DLP still holds is it's IMHO (!!!) clearly and utterly superior definition, "perceived sharpness" and inter-pixel/intra-scene/ANSI contrast. That's probably the last thing DLP has going for it. If you take this away by claiming "the RS-1 is just as sharp as a good DLP" it is not only IMHO far, far from the actual truth but also makes the JVC not only the "best choice" but the "perfect choice". Nobody in his right mind would choose anything else but the RS-1 (including myself obviously) from now forth if it really combines all it's obvious advantages with the best DLP can do in the "sharpness/crispness/punch" department. People don't like compromises. People love to believe that there is a perfect choice out there. This is the very concept of "hype". And anybody who wants to bring some sense back into the discussion and claims that this new messiah will look just like any Lcos before it with a bit more On/Off contrast doesn't make himself very popular So the JVC will be the perfect projector. It will be a LCOS with the On/Off of a CRT, the colorimetry of the XENON charged Ruby and the definition and punch of the best DLPs - and all that for <$5000. Isn't belief just a wonderful thing.

Lion,
When did you see the RS1? You quote your dealer as saying it is not very sharp, typical LCOS. Meanwhile there are at least 10 people who have seen it in person and posted on this forum that it is not typical LCOS sharp, that it is in fact very sharp. Are you saying that they are lying, or just deluded? This is a new breed of LCOS. Just look at the advance in contrast over previous LCOS offerings. Your continued use of "hype" is rude to those who have reported on this piece firsthand. you are entitled to your opinion, but to keep harping on the same issue, contrary to overwhelming observations to the contrary is puzzling to say the least.
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:37 PM
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I don't see why people are getting so crazy about someone saying a 3 chip LCOS wont look as sharp as a 1 chip DLP. Best response would be to say that the difference in sharpness wont enhance the picture quality in any meaningful way for you, which is most likely true for a majority (but not all) of the people here. You could also respond by saying no single chip DLP (or multi-chip DLP for that matter) has > 12,000 native contrast without DI.

Some people will like that sharper look which DLP will probably continue to have over LCOS, but it didnt stop the Ruby and Pearl from being such big hits and it won't stop the JVC from being a big success either. My guess is the JVCs will be a hair sharper than these two Sonys from having a better lens.

There is no war between DLP and LCOS that consumers should be fighting over - pick the pj thats best for you needs. Let the manufacturers argue over which is better and you can just vote with your dollar (or euro or yen or whatever)
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

I don't see why people are getting so crazy about someone saying a 3 chip LCOS wont look as sharp as a 1 chip DLP. Best response would be to say that the difference in sharpness wont enhance the picture quality in any meaningful way for you, which is most likely true for a majority (but not all) of the people here. You could also respond by saying no single chip DLP (or multi-chip DLP for that matter) has > 12,000 native contrast without DI.

Some people will like that sharper look which DLP will probably continue to have over LCOS, but it didnt stop the Ruby and Pearl from being such big hits and it won't stop the JVC from being a big success either. My guess is the JVCs will be a hair sharper than these two Sonys from having a better lens.

There is no war between DLP and LCOS that consumers should be fighting over - pick the pj thats best for you needs. Let the manufacturers argue over which is better and you can just vote with your dollar (or euro or yen or whatever)

Well stated and reasoned post Seth. All valid points!
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sethk View Post

There is no war between DLP and LCOS that consumers should be fighting over - pick the pj thats best for you needs. Let the manufacturers argue over which is better and you can just vote with your dollar (or euro or yen or whatever)

There is no war? Don't tell the manufacturers this or price/performance won't continue at the blistering pace.
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kevivoe View Post

There is no war? Don't tell the manufacturers this or price/performance won't continue at the blistering pace.

Apparently some of the DLP manufacturers haven't gotten word of this price war yet...
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Apparently some of the DLP manufacturers haven't gotten word of this price war yet...


Awww.......you beat me to it!
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:58 PM
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"An 3-chip Lcos design will NEVER be remotely as sharp as a 1-chip DLP with good optics - simple physics."

A foolhardy statement - physics is not simple, and the engineering that implements it less so.

Before the RS1, would you ever have guessed LCOS could be capable of 15k:1 CR?

Have you seen the RS1? If not, please stop telling us how sharp it isn't.

Noah
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