Optoma HD81-LV, 2,500 ANSI lumens & 12,000:1 contrast ratio + Cinemascope lense! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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From engaget

Joining ViewSonic, Microvision, and Sharp, it looks like Optoma has a trio of its own projectors to lust over at CES, and they're all sporting that trendy DLP sticker as well. Up first is the 1080-capable HD81-LV, which pretty much stomps its predecessor in the specs department by offering up 2,500 ANSI lumens, 12,000:1 contrast ratio, and HDMI. If you're really feeling like emptying that piggy bank, you can add on the $3,999 BX-AL133 Cinemascope lens, which converts Hollywood movies into their native 2.35:1 aspect ratio for ultra-widescreen viewing.

Big screens 180"+ with adequate lumens & 1080P may FINALLY be a REALITY folks.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/o...lp-projectors/

Cheers
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post #2 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 07:40 PM
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For those of you who are at CES, they're running this (with the anamorphic lens) in their booth at the LVCC. It is worth a stop. If you're looking for a very bright projector that still does blacks, it should be on your list.

KO
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post #3 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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For those visiting the booth please ask what the MSRP will be on this baby and also if it has a lens shift which is a MUST.

Cheers
Chris

Sony VPL-VW500ES, 150" width 2.35:1 screen, Proud owner of 1 of 399 Enzo Ferrari's in the world, a gorgeous yellow Ferrari 599GTB, + a 1970 Road Runner see it
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post #4 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 07:54 PM
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sweet It might be the road for a true 2.35.1 projector.
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post #5 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 08:19 PM
 
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Does it achieve the Contrast Ratio with a dynamic iris similar to the HD81?
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post #6 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 08:26 PM
 
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I believe that with the anamorph it lists for $9999.

Eric
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post #7 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:


For those visiting the booth please ask what the MSRP will be on this baby and also if it has a lens shift which is a MUST.

No lens shift...It is the same basic HD-81 design, but brighter.

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post #8 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 08:30 PM
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Does it achieve the Contrast Ratio with a dynamic iris similar to the HD81?

That would be my guess. Did they ever get the DI working properly in the original HD-81?

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post #9 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

No lens shift...It is the same basic HD-81 design, but brighter.


Ouch! So much for this baby at least for me & I'm sure MANY others. What the heck is Optoma thinking? Even their cheapest PJ's have lens shift why kill 75% of your potential sales?

What a waste!

Cheers
Chris

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post #10 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 09:20 PM
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So with a room that is 24.11L x 15W, how high of a ceiling would be required to have this specific projectors lens shift be compatible with a 126''+ anamorphic screen?

I dont really no much about projectors lens shift and mounting as this will be my first unit and I am just getting into the dedicated home theater scene...

My Theater

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post #11 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 09:45 PM
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Is this basically an HD81 with a white segment on the colorwheel, like the HD72 uses to get more lumens?

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post #12 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Is this basically an HD81 with a white segment on the colorwheel, like the HD72 uses to get more lumens?
--Darin

No info on the bulb power (hopefully a bit brighter) but the unit seems exactely the same as the HD81. I venture to say whatever more light output coming out it will be mainly due to an added white segment. To get the claimed 12:000 I doublt the unit will be outputting more than 1/10th of the claimed 2500 Lumens. Add no lens shift to it... not sure what Optoma is thinking these days but just like the H81 this product has nowhere to go IMO, unless it sells for 1/3 of their targeted MSRP. Next!...
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post #13 of 100 Old 01-08-2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Is this basically an HD81 with a white segment on the colorwheel, like the HD72 uses to get more lumens?

--Darin

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782139

According to that thread it has Brillant Color 2 with a new color wheel which adds Cyan Yellow and Magenta.
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post #14 of 100 Old 01-09-2007, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by egcarter View Post

I believe that with the anamorph it lists for $9999.

Eric

Since Eric said "I believe" I assume he is not positive. Can anyone confirm this price? That seems very low.
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post #15 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 02:37 AM
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Saw the HD81-LV today at the booth and was pretty blown away. I have to say the 170 inch image looked fantastic - I think it was playing a BR or HDdvd loop. After looking at a bunch of other projectors that day, I had to come back and see this demo again before leaving the show. The brightness, colors, ANSI CR, sharpness and processing was VERY VERY impressive. And the screen size left an impression that's still burned in. The Anamorphic lens was adding some extra light I'm sure but if I had to guess, this looked like 20 ftL to me. Maybe more. A truly amazing picture that was unattainable 3 years ago for $75K.

As a comparison, 20 minutes earlier I came from the Meridian Faroudja demo where they showed their MF-1 $20K projector/processor on a 135" Stewart Cinecurve in a black cave. They spoke about the advanced processing and killer scaling. How they test every machine at the factory for a day, how they burn the lamp in inverted if it's going to be mounted on a ceiling, etc. - it looked really good, everyone there was smiling. However, I have to say, the picture Optoma had made the MF-1 look a little flat to me. And I can tell you the MF-1 is not too shabby by any stretch. Hats off to Optoma.

I wish I had a chance to see the RS-1, HD-1 at Ceasars to compare. Can someone that saw all 3 of these chime in?

One rep there said it will 'cost' appx $3K more than the current HD81. Other than the black case, it looks identical in every way. No lens shift from what I can tell.
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post #16 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 03:46 AM
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Has anyone asked about availability????
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post #17 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 04:51 AM
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Quite an interesting projector. Time will tell how the reviews go. Customer service, durability, reliability and overall connectivity issues will determine how good this piece is in the long haul. It is not flexible due to no lens shift but still for now, it seems interesting.
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post #18 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 06:40 AM
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Although lens shift sure can simplify an installation and having a fixed "required" offset (.36 x vertical dimension of viewing height) can present difficulties, a good installer (wether a pro, a friend, or you) can install with a much shorter offset without picture compromise. A GOOD INSTALLER WILL UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES USE ELECTRONIC KEY STONE CORRECTION.

The solution is to tilt the projector upward a few degrees and to tilt the screen downward approximately the same number of degrees. Using a 1.78 pattern and adjusting tilts to eliminate any key toning with the image the right height and centered and you are there. A good bracket such a the RMA series by Chief with a lateral shift accessory (lsb100) makes this a snap. Tilting the screen forward a few degrees is really not noticeable to the viewer.
Also lens shift can have an optical cost in geometric abnormalities to the image depending on lens specifics. More of a problem though with three chippers.

I also believe the MSRP of $9999 is correct. I also believe the Cinemascope lens, the motorized lens sled, and the plate needed to attach the sled and lens to the projector will be an added cost option.. I just installed all three on an HD81 on a 120 inch wide 2.35 Stewart 130. Plenty bright. I plan on spending some viewing time with it soon but it is not mine. I installed for an internet magazine reviewer who will be publishing his observations. I will not trump him.

I will say we ha some shakedown issues with lens, sled, and plate, but there will soon be kitted with all the right mechanical screws, hooks, etc. Nothing we couldn't solve with a few trips to the hardware store. Also we had to manufacture a long RS232 cable with the correct pin hookups.

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post #19 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 09:18 AM
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It seems to me that people are either completely disinterested in reviewing this PJ (along with the HD81) or they shy away from it due to an issue they'd rather not bring up. So is it fear or disinterest - cause I have to tell you, it's almost eery that nobody at AVS wants to talk about it.
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post #20 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:


It seems to me that people are either completely disinterested in reviewing this PJ (along with the HD81) or they shy away from it due to an issue they'd rather not bring up. So is it fear or disinterest - cause I have to tell you, it's almost eery that nobody at AVS wants to talk about it.

My guess is that it is basically lack of interest, as the Optoma's specs aren't all that impressive. I haven't seen it myself, so please don't take this as being my opinion, but rather just a possible explanation as to why there is so little interest in it:

1. The projector has a fixed offset. Most people really want lens shift, so even if they could jump through a few hoops to make it work, they aren't all that interested in doing so.
2. The published CR of the original HD-81 was based on the use of a DI, and the last I heard, the DI was very noisy and often described as "unusable".
3. So that leaves you with a projector with an adjustable iris. With the iris wide open, you get the bulk of the advertised lumens (I think the published number was over 1000), but the CR is quite low, like under 2k:1.
4. If you close the iris fully, the CR is significantly higher (somewhere between 3k:1 and 4k:1 - nothing special), but the lumens output is MUCH lower, something like under 400.

So what makes this projector stand out considering other options currently available that perform as well or better for less money?

Again, I am not judging a projector I have not seen...I am just repeating things I have read and attempting to explain the lack of interest in the HD-81 series. Greg Rogers has one that he is evaluating right now, and his report could either make or break the HD-81 depending on what he discovers. If he decides not to publish a review of it, well, that should tell you what you need to know without saying anything...

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post #21 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 11:05 AM
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A shorter lens throw option would help this projector.

IB
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post #22 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 11:10 AM
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Bob - Thanks for the well thought out post. I'll see if/when Greg does his review - although I've already ordered the RS1.
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post #23 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 12:03 PM
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"The solution is to tilt the projector upward a few degrees and to tilt the screen downward approximately the same number of degrees."

How do you tilt a pulldown?

Noah
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post #24 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"The solution is to tilt the projector upward a few degrees and to tilt the screen downward approximately the same number of degrees."

How do you tilt a pulldown?

With a fan. It helps if you watch a lot of "windy" movies - gives that little extra effect...
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post #25 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 01:36 PM
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I know we tend to go really nuts about specs here on AVS and really analyze every bit of info and detail about each machine, but there's nothing like seeing the images in action - and deciding on the spot - is good? or is it great? After viewing the Meridian MF1 at the Meridian Faroudja booth just before viewing the Optoma, I don't think anyone could say the HD-81 does not throw a spectacular image - the image was great. The MF-1 was very good, and specs beat the HD81 in various areas and costs WAY more, but when you sit and look at some video playing on both, specs be damned - the Optoma looked better. It was brighter, punchier, colors were more alive and the ANSI CR of any scene just had more pop to it. It was more involving and impressive. Never mind that I don't believe any projector I've seen near this $ has the sheer lumens to drive a 170 inch screen with this kind of impact. It really seems like a bargain for people who want massive screens. Does it have the BEST blacks? probably not, but when the loop started over and faded to black, it looked pretty dark - dark enough that most people can live with the black level - I think I could. I dont know what the settings were but I bet the aperture was opened up pretty well to run a screen that huge.

So specs are nice, the lack of lens shift can be a problem for many, but if you can make it all work, man it just looks freaking great. Also I did not 'hear' the projector but After living with a near silent BenQ PE8720, I'd prefer a quieter fan than what specs show on the HD81...
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post #26 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertola View Post

After viewing the Meridian MF1 at the Meridian Faroudja booth just before viewing the Optoma, I don't think anyone could say the HD-81 does not throw a spectacular image - the image was great. It was brighter, punchier, colors were more alive and the ANSI CR of any scene just had more pop to it. It was more involving and impressive.

So specs are nice, the lack of lens shift can be a problem for many, but if you can make it all work, man it just looks freaking great. Also I did not 'hear' the projector but After living with a near silent BenQ PE8720, I'd prefer a quieter fan than what specs show on the HD81...

Bertola,

I certainly agree about many of us getting hung up on specs. I saw the HD81 on a 150" wide screen after seeing some other 1080p display technologies and it was no contest for me. The image never ceases to amaze, the separate scaler with great connectivity was important as well as the anamorphic modes designed into the projector, not just vertical expansion scaling, but auto sensing
of 2:35 material and triggering of the Panamorph lens transport.

I have a HT that is only14'X13'5", 8' ceiling and it all fit great. A 100" wide 2:35
screen looks very big in that room, the vertical offset was 27%, not the 36% I
was expecting.

The HD81 has been hurt by lack of lens shift, long throw, early firmware issues and a price that is higher than SXRD and LCD 1080p models--but it is very competitive amongst DLP competitors and is the only one with a separate scaler.
The JVC RS1 looks to be a world beater, but I would still need to buy an outboard
scaler to use my Panamorph lens, and I can't imagine it resolving more detail or
being brighter.

There have been several reviews of the HD81; Perfect Vision, Sound & Vision,
Ultimate AV, Audioholics.com, Projector Reviews.com, Projector Central.com, all very favorable for the most part.

If somebody is interested in a 1080p DLP projector, the HD81 or HD81LS, Sharp
20K and BenQ10K are great options, IMO. They each have strengths and weaknesses, like all projectors and display technologies.

Unfortunately, my HD81, at almost 200 hours, is exhibiting banding/posterization
in shadow detail that was not present before, so I may have a problem with the
processor. I'm glad Optoma offers a three year warranty.

Jeff Regan

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post #27 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 02:58 PM
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OK Noah. The tilt fix really is not applicable to a retractable screen. I can say that most people in the $3K and above group use fixed screens. Not all, but for professional installs the ratio is probably 10 to 1.

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post #28 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 03:34 PM
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I certainly agree about many of us getting hung up on specs.

Yes, but certain specs can tell you things that you need to know without actually seeing the unit. For example, if a PJ has a lumens output of 1000 and a contrast ratio of 2k:1, then it is simple mathematics to ascertain that the black light output will be 0.5 lumens. That number is written in stone, and I don't have to see THAT particular projector to know what 0.5 lumens of black looks like.

I have no doubt that in mid to high APL scenes, the high lumens output coupled with good ANSI CR, and hopefully a nice MTF curve would cause such a projector to look absolutely breathtaking - nothing short of jaw dropping, but for my particular tastes the black level just would not cut it. To me the difference between the boys and the men is in the ability to do convincing blacks and long, extended dark scenes showing plenty of depth and detail - with no gray "veil". A projector with 1000 lumens and 2k:1 on/off just won't do it...for me, though I am sure that there are plenty of people that would be perfectly happy with such performance (as is proven by the huge Panny AX100 following).
Quote:


I saw the HD81 on a 150" wide screen after seeing some other 1080p display technologies and it was no contest for me.

Ahhh...there lies the strength of the HD-81 - It is bright enough to light up a pretty good sized screen, and the immense size of the image makes for an impressive showing. In that vein the HD-81 provides people with a reasonably priced decent performer...one of the few (if not only) choices for owners of large screens. The Sharp can provide the same or better performance, albeit at a considerably higher price point, but other than that, what other PJ has the lumens output for large screens?

This new model, regardless of how it obtains its increased light output, is sure to be a winner with people with even larger screens - decent performance and tons of lumens!

I predict this will be a VERY popular projector/processor/lens combo!

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post #29 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 06:43 PM
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Is the cinemascope lens one of the available offerings from Panamorph/Prismasonic or something new?
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post #30 of 100 Old 01-10-2007, 08:39 PM
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Is the cinemascope lens one of the available offerings from Panamorph/Prismasonic or something new?

It is the Panamorph UH380 lens and M380 motorized transport as well as a mounting
plate for the projector and transport.

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