IMO: The JVC RS-1 is the Best 1080P at CES - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2007, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
tlllava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Elkridge, MD
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Unlike many here, I am not an expert (real or imagined ) at front projection and am looking for my first projector for my first theater. I came to CES to find out what the best projector for me is without all the hype and flame wars. The RS-1 floored me.

Taking a step back, I spent quite a long time on day one of CES looking at the Panasonic 1000U and the BenQ W1000 (shown at the DLP booth). I was somewhat torn between these projectors as the BenQ popped a little more but was $2000 more (MAP). Also, the screens and rooms that I saw them in were different enough that they could have been the difference I was perceiving.

I then saw a Pearl in the SV Sound suite while listening to subs. (I ignored the picture at first as I was there for the sound.) The Pearl had a really nice picture and the demo benefited from much better light control over what I saw on the floor.

Then I went over to Ceasars to see the RS-1. It was on a (110" ?) ST130 screen in a dark room but with white walls. The picture blew me away. A scene from Too Fast Too Furious was outside at a mansion and was mostly bright with vivid colors. However, you could still see details in the dark areas of the foliage. Amazing. We then moved on to U571 to the screen when they take over the U2. The black level was stunning.

As if I hadn't already been sold, I then sneaked into the invitation only area down stairs where they were showing an HD1 (consumer version) vs. the Pearl. This was in a totally dark room with black velvet "walls" on two 120" ST 130 screens. The black level advantage of the JVC was obvious, especially when showing the clip title which was white letters on a black background. The Sony background was grey compared to the almost black background of the JVC. Also, the white text was not as white on the Pearl. One scene had the WB company logo on a CGI door knocker as part of a very dark brown door. The JVC showed very good detail on the knocker with brighter whites and more dark detail. The total effect made the knocker much more 3D compared to the flatter, less detailed look of the Pearl. The longer I stayed, the more I could see how the JVC trashed the Pearl. (And I think the Pearl looks dammed good.)

A few more details... The RS-1 upstairs was running in low lamp mode and was set to "normal". We changed this to (cinema?) and saw very little difference in the brightness or contrast but a small shift in color temp. The projector was quite! JVC claims 25db but I can tell you that the thing was three feet behind me at ear level and I had to pay attention to hear the fan. The volum on the clips was down low so as not to take away from the picture. A rep there measured the picture at 18 ftlb which he thought was too bright but I enjoyed. He said that the bulb had around 25 hours on it. Jim Faiman, JVC VP for Buisness Development, also demonstrated the response time of the LCD using the WinXP "Star Field" screen saver. He pointed out that just as the stars are about to leave the screen, they speed up. XP does this by skipping pixels. On the JVC, this was clear. Mr. Faiman explained that on projectors with slow refresh rates (slower LCD pannels), the stars will look like a blur rather than as a sequence of pixels. You kind of had to see it.

So, I'm no expert and I'm not going to get into a debate over this technology vs. that one. I'm just a guy who found the perfect projector. Well, except for the fact that I'll have to wait until March or so to get it since I didn't pre-order it.

-Tom

-----------------------------------------
The Lava Lounge Construction Photos
tlllava is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-09-2007, 06:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chris Dallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada & Malibu California.
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
AWESOME! Finally another report! Thanks for the post Tom..now time to read it.

Cheers
Chris

Sony VPL-VW500ES, 150" width 2.35:1 screen, Proud owner of 1 of 399 Enzo Ferrari's in the world, a gorgeous yellow Ferrari 599GTB, + a 1970 Road Runner see it here

Chris Dallas is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 06:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
kits's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for another great report! This wait is killing me!
kits is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 06:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wet1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Nice review! Thanks!!!
Wet1 is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 06:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 2,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Excellent! Thanks for the post. I can't wait to get mine!
Tom Bley is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chris Dallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada & Malibu California.
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I expect this to be the "Almost Perfect PJ" that I am looking for which is why I'm on the pre-buy list!

The ONLY thing missing from this baby is the vertical stretch so in the meantime I will be using my 119" DA-LITE HP just as I was using it with my Optoma H79 and when the firmware update is announced to allow for the vertical stretch I am ordering my High Power 150" wide cinemascope screen from Jason!

Cheers
Chris

Sony VPL-VW500ES, 150" width 2.35:1 screen, Proud owner of 1 of 399 Enzo Ferrari's in the world, a gorgeous yellow Ferrari 599GTB, + a 1970 Road Runner see it here

Chris Dallas is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
kits's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

I expect this to be the "Almost Perfect PJ" that I am looking for which is why I'm on the pre-buy list!

The ONLY thing missing from this baby is the vertical stretch so in the meantime I will be using my 119" DA-LITE HP just as I was using it with my Optoma H79 and when the firmware update is announced to allow for the vertical stretch I am ordering my High Power 150" wide cinemascope screen from Jason!

My DA-LITE High Power 139" wide cinemascope screen is going to be delivered tomorrow. I have to wait till my FIRST projector RS1 arrives to enjoy BIG SCREEN. Until the firmware update, I will try zooming the picture to enjoy CIH setup. IF, that looks bad, I might just grab an used scaler which I plan to sell if we ever see an firmware update.

I will be lucky if RS1 throws a bright picture on HP screen with lens in line with top edge of the screen. I think it should look fine as my first row will be 16' from screen, second will be 20', and 3rd around 26' from screen. If it doesn't, I have to lower my projector close to center of screen and lose one seat from the 3rd row.
kits is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:30 PM
Member
 
kolson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I returned to the Augustus ballroom this afternoon (I missed the curtained area last night and only saw the static demo there) and can confirm everything that Tom reports. I liked the Pearl picture, but the black and white levels are both noticeably and significantly better on the RS1. If the RS1 wasn't there you would think the Sony was outstanding on contrast and black level. With the RS1 side by side with it, the Sony looks very grey.

The colors on the JVC were also more vibrant with significantly more "pop."

I was able to walk up to the screens to look for screen door. The pixels and fill rates are about the same on both projectors, as you would expect. They are not distinctly visible until you get within a few feet of the screen. You have to get your nose up to the screen to see them clearly.

With respect to noise, I stuck my ear right next to the exhaust of each projector (they were both above waist height 15 feet away from the screen and the audience stood in front and between them). They are substantially the same in noise, so if you find the Pearl acceptable you'll find the JVC pretty much the same. Both put out a lot of heat.

KO
kolson is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Gainesville. Fla.
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kits View Post

My DA-LITE High Power 139" wide cinemascope screen is going to be delivered tomorrow. I have to wait till my FIRST projector RS1 arrives to enjoy BIG SCREEN. Until the firmware update, I will try zooming the picture to enjoy CIH setup. IF, that looks bad, I might just grab an used scaler which I plan to sell if we ever see an firmware update.

I will be lucky if RS1 throws a bright picture on HP screen with lens in line with top edge of the screen. I think it should look fine as my first row will be 16' from screen, second will be 20', and 3rd around 26' from screen. If it doesn't, I have to lower my projector close to center of screen and lose one seat from the 3rd row.

I'm guessing your ceilings must be 8ft. or lower. If they are at least 9ft, you should be able to mount the pj directly under the center chair in the 3rd row. By putting it directly under the chair you avoid anyone hitting their head on it, since they can't stand directly under where the pj is.

Mike
thaxx is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,089
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Thanks Tom for this great review. Many of us around here have been looking forward to hearing impressions like this so I can tell you it is greatly appreciated.

Its great to hear the 18ftL number. Earlier it was said that JVC gave a 14ftL number for that room which sounded quite low. At 18ftL that puts it at about 500 lumens in low lamp mode, and likely about 600 lumens in high. Although still less than what some people will desire, I feel a lot more comfortable around the 600 lumen mark than were we'd be if it was 14ftL.

A few follow up questions please:

1) How did you feel about the sharpness of the JVC compared to the Pearl? Would you describe it as razor sharp?

2) If you had to guess, what would you say the throw distance was in the room where the 18ftL number was quoted?

Thanks!
lovingdvd is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:37 PM
Senior Member
 
ZoomAir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow thanks Tom, damn this PJ seems great, I cant wait to see it
ZoomAir is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
acegamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the impressions!! Can't wait to take this baby for a spin in my theater.
acegamer is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
tlllava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Elkridge, MD
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks Tom for this great review. Many of us around here have been looking forward to hearing impressions like this so I can tell you it is greatly appreciated.

Its great to hear the 18ftL number. Earlier it was said that JVC gave a 14ftL number for that room which sounded quite low. At 18ftL that puts it at about 500 lumens in low lamp mode, and likely about 600 lumens in high. Although still less than what some people will desire, I feel a lot more comfortable around the 600 lumen mark than were we'd be if it was 14ftL.

A few follow up questions please:

1) How did you feel about the sharpness of the JVC compared to the Pearl? Would you describe it as razor sharp?

2) If you had to guess, what would you say the throw distance was in the room where the 18ftL number was quoted?

Thanks!

I've seen the flame wars over LCOS sharpness as compared to DLP. I must admit, however, to not scrutinizing this in the comparison to the Pearl. I can tell you that both were very sharp and I didn't perceive softness in either projector. Perhaps a more experienced person who saw the demo can chime in.

The RS-1 was in the bedroom of a hotel suite. I'm guessing that it was around 15 feet or a little less from the screen. That number is suspect as I'm going from memory.

Also, it is important to note that the RS-1 was upstairs by it's self in the hotel suite. The HD-1 was the one that was side-by-side with the Pearl. The people upstairs told me to go with the RS-1 (pro version) over the HD-1 (consumer version).

-Tom

-----------------------------------------
The Lava Lounge Construction Photos
tlllava is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:48 PM
Member
 
kolson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks Tom for this great review. Many of us around here have been looking forward to hearing impressions like this so I can tell you it is greatly appreciated.

Its great to hear the 18ftL number. Earlier it was said that JVC gave a 14ftL number for that room which sounded quite low. At 18ftL that puts it at about 500 lumens in low lamp mode, and likely about 600 lumens in high. Although still less than what some people will desire, I feel a lot more comfortable around the 600 lumen mark than were we'd be if it was 14ftL.

A few follow up questions please:

1) How did you feel about the sharpness of the JVC compared to the Pearl? Would you describe it as razor sharp?

2) If you had to guess, what would you say the throw distance was in the room where the 18ftL number was quoted?

Thanks!

As the source of the 14FL number, I have to comment that I now think the JVC rep upstairs had the wrong number. The 18 FL number downstairs sounds more accurate. Certainly, the projector downstairs was more than bright enough even though it was showing on the larger (120 in) screen.

I would rate the JVC as somewhat sharper than the Pearl, but it was not a huge difference. The greater contrast and more vibrant colors were much more noticeable.

The JVC rep downstairs said the projectors were 15 ft away from the screen (and that is about what I would have guessed, too).

KO
kolson is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
tlllava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Elkridge, MD
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Its great to hear the 18ftL number. Earlier it was said that JVC gave a 14ftL number for that room which sounded quite low. At 18ftL that puts it at about 500 lumens in low lamp mode, and likely about 600 lumens in high. Although still less than what some people will desire, I feel a lot more comfortable around the 600 lumen mark than were we'd be if it was 14ftL.

The JVC rep. said that someone had come in and measured the projector at 14 ftL. They then remeasured the projector with the more accurate sensor the JVC rep had and it measured 18 ftL. This measurement was taken in the lower right hand portion of the screen while displaying a grey scale test image generated by the projector.

Leaving for the AVS party now. My hotel Internet subscription will expire by the time I get back so you won't hear from me again till Thursday when I get back home. (It's $12 a day for crying out loud!)

-----------------------------------------
The Lava Lounge Construction Photos
tlllava is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:57 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rob Tomlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Don't sell yourself short Tom! That was a very good review! Thanks.
Rob Tomlin is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:12 PM
 
Randall Morton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Mid South
Posts: 1,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I agree, very good review. You hit most of the important points and relayed your viewing experience quite well. Don't sound like a beginner to me.
Randall Morton is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
johnathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Fort Worth / DFW Texas
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks Tom and all
Just the fix I was looking for ! I think I can make it 6 more weeks ha ha. Johnathan

I'm the "Thread Cooler" ! When I post that usually kills interest in the thread.

See my Den to HT conversion thread !
johnathan is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mark Petersen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Great Review! In one short month, those of us on the RS1 prebuy are going to be in for a real treat.... candy.... eye candy
Mark Petersen is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Really great review Tom! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.

Would love to hear from people who have seen the Sharp 20k at the show (I assume it's there), and comment on the differences between it and the RS1.
Thunder is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:38 PM
Senior Member
 
rdalcanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh my God! I don't think I can make it another month! Can someone put me into carbon freeze and thaw me when the UPS man arrives!!!!!
rdalcanto is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Makomachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
GREAT REVIEW! Thanks for taking the time to share your observations - this is exactly the type of review I like reading and your time is much appreciated.
Makomachine is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pedro2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tom, hopefully you'll check this thread again when you get back home on Thursday...

Did you by any chance also take a look at the Epson 1080p projector? I'm pretty much sold on the JVC, but would still like some comparative comments on this.

Thanks for the review. Nice writeup.
Pedro2 is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
chexi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Can anyone who was in on the pre-buy pm me the price of the RS-1 from the pre-buy? I want to get an idea on what street price level I will be looking at in a few months. I know we can't post it, so please pm to me. Thank you in advance.
chexi1 is online now  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,089
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdalcanto View Post

Oh my God! I don't think I can make it another month! Can someone put me into carbon freeze and thaw me when the UPS man arrives!!!!!

LOL.
lovingdvd is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,089
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Tom / kolson - thanks for the updates. One point of clarification please - as I'm a bit confused. Was the 18ftL number quotes for the 120" screen downstairs, or the 110" upstairs. If it was for the 120" that would make quite a significant difference (nice improvement) in the lumens.
lovingdvd is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rob Tomlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Tom / kolson - thanks for the updates. One point of clarification please - as I'm a bit confused. Was the 18ftL number quotes for the 120" screen downstairs, or the 110" upstairs. If it was for the 120" that would make quite a significant difference (nice improvement) in the lumens.

Good point.
Rob Tomlin is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mit07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So are there any advantages to the Pearl or is the JVC better in all regards? Has anyone seen both and prefer the Pearl?

I want a Masquerade.
Mit07 is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:48 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
bgosselin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Montreal,quebec,Canada
Posts: 1,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlllava View Post

I've seen the flame wars over LCOS sharpness as compared to DLP. I must admit, however, to not scrutinizing this in the comparison to the Pearl. I can tell you that both were very sharp and I didn't perceive softness in either projector. Perhaps a more experienced person who saw the demo can chime in.

The RS-1 was in the bedroom of a hotel suite. I'm guessing that it was around 15 feet or a little less from the screen. That number is suspect as I'm going from memory.

Also, it is important to note that the RS-1 was upstairs by it's self in the hotel suite. The HD-1 was the one that was side-by-side with the Pearl. The people upstairs told me to go with the RS-1 (pro version) over the HD-1 (consumer version).

-Tom

What exactly is the difference between the two versions? I was in the impression that both projector were identical except casing. Are they different prices?
bgosselin is offline  
Old 01-09-2007, 10:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,089
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit07 View Post

So are there any advantages to the Pearl or is the JVC better in all regards? Has anyone seen both and prefer the Pearl?

The street pricing of the Pearl will be a quite a bit lower than what the RS1 will be available at.
lovingdvd is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off