CES Stars of the show! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok you probably want to know what the stars of the show were. Well CES isn't a big home theater show like CEDIA. In fact many of the big hitters barely set up booths! Probably in the future most will just move to showing at CEDIA and bypass CES. There is simply too much other electronics here that cant possibly all be seen in a week.

Home Theater.
Not much to further report on screens. I did see the DNP Supernova and thought it was pretty good. A miracle cure for ambient light? Nope.

Projectors. I saw the Optima, Meridian(JVC HD10k), and many other 720p or less DLPs. The real stars of the show were the JVC RS-1 and the Sim2 HT5000. Both looked Marvelous.

JVC RS1. Wow this has definitely raised the bar for everyone else. JVC had their infamous Pearl vs. RS1 side by side demo and it definitely didn't disappoint. 15:000:1 native is a clear winner over the dynamic iris.






If you like black this is the projector for you! I often could not tell the difference between the masking on the screen and the black level. Masking? Do you need it when your black level is this good? Nope. The black bars on 2.35 content are a non issue. Never was I distracted in any way by them. Your total attention is on the image. No masking necessary. The best at the show.





sorry for the fuzziness. I didn't have a tripod

Brightness. This sucker is plenty bright. Yes I would like to have a 2000 lumen version but I'll definitely settle for the stunning picture at 700 lumens. Use a high gain screen if you need to. Demo was shown on a 120? Studiotek 130 and we were getting almost 18- 20 foot lamberts.

I could go on an on about how awesome this projector is but I'll save that for my official review soon.

JVC had some other interesting items like a 2.35 rear projection unit., and a 3D rear projection unit that you can play cheap videogames on and it looks incredible. Madden 07 on this thing was unbelievable. You feel like you are actually on the field. Finally maybe a 2.35 projector in 2008? Who knows?

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post #2 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Sim2 HT5000

Very nice. And at 3800 lumens(that's what they said) it has the punch that I would love to have in my projector..









The HT5000 is a very big unit, but its quiet and would look very good in any theater.

Their demo was set up with about a 10' wide curved Stewart cinemascope screen with masking. Very nice. It was perfectly matched with the Greyhawk RS fabric. The clips they were showing were from a hard drive and 1080p. Very beautiful, and the higher ANSI contrast of DLP was noticeable. Sharp, bright and very 3 dimensional.




They like JVC had a Panamorph on a Panamorph sled (relabeled under their own names). SIM had an ISCO 3 there but they had everything automated with the lens,sled and maskingvery slick!





The other projectors they had showing was 2 of there new 1080p single chippers (HT3000 and D80). They had the C3X lite set up in a shootout with their reference 1080p 1 chipper (HT3000) and it would be a tough call which one to pick. They both are priced about the same. Definately if you want more brightness and sit back further, C3X. Closer in a dedicated theater? the 1080p. It is a bit dimmer but that's a given next to a three chipper.

Of course I thought the 1 chipper was awesome and it was nearly impossible to see rainbows. I tried very hard...and It took me a long time. I could live with this projector!



I would love to have any of these projectos in my own theater!






No word on whether Sony had something to challenge them

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post #3 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:25 PM
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Tryg,

Excellent work once again!

First the booth babes and now this.

You stated that you are reserving further comment until your "official review". Will this be an elaboration of the CES demo or is JVC sending you the RS-1 to do the AVS review?

gup
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post #4 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:28 PM
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Wow, I can't believe how black the background is on the Corpse Bride shot. Amazing.
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post #5 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:34 PM
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Nice, thanks, and great work, Tryg.

My setup, still in progress:


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post #6 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guptown View Post

Will this be an elaboration of the CES demo or is JVC sending you the RS-1 to do the AVS review?

The JVC guys are awesome. Lon, Carl, Ken, Rod, Jim and Dan really catered to the AVS crowd with their private showings and Q&A.

Full review soon

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post #7 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:42 PM
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Tryg...

Thanks for the great write-up and photos! I noticed that you saw the Meridian MF-1. How did it compare with the competition?

Thanks!
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post #8 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Its very hard to compare projectors at this level unless something really stands out.
The RS-1 really stands out among the pack.

They are all amazing!

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post #9 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 08:06 PM
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Is that chicken wire?

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." -Sir Walter Scott

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post #10 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 08:13 PM
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Tryg,

I was reading your old writeups on the Silverstar versus Firehawk. My media room has complete light control, with flat almost dark blue walls and navy blue carpet but a white cofferred ceiling. The coffering of the ceiling makes the ceiling almost unnoticeable with the angular reflective firehawk as the screen. I am leaning very heavily towards painting the ceiling anyways, despite my wife's very vocal objections, after reading Ric's thread.

In your old review it appeared to me that the Silverstar performed awesome compared to the matte white and firehawk EXCEPT for the blacks (which to me would make the screen unacceptable for a PJ that couldnt keep the blacks darker than that.) Do you think those deep blacks from the RS1 translate into deep blacks (although maybe/probably not as deep) on the SS as well, as there isnt anywhere near as much grey to those blacks from the RS1? Or do you think they will be noticeably grayed out like they are on those pictures from your 2003 comparison/review?

I like the extra punch the SS brings but not if it will elevate those blacks to look more like the blacks on the other screen on the corpse bride title comparison on this thread. Im debating SS versus one of the stewart screens (one of the firehawks, the Studiotek 130 or the U 150.) i think im leaning towards one of the firehawks, as i do love the deep blacks and their ambient light abilities.

What screen material would you recommend for a 120" diagonal 16:9 setup of the RS1?

Mike

My setup, still in progress:


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post #11 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 08:13 PM
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So let me ask,

You preferred the RS1 over the HT5000?

Man!
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post #12 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 08:45 PM
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Tryg - thanks and I look forward to your detailed review. What you say it was 120" is that width or diag? Also what would you estimate the throw distance at? This is the best ftL number we've heard yet for that size screen. Although reports have been all over the place. First we heard 14ftL for the upstairs 110", then 18ftL for that, now we're hearing 18ftL for the 120" downstairs. Well there appears to be too much guess work so although there's some question marks regarding lumens it sure sounds like it'll work out quite nice! Just a matter of getting some definitive measurements.
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post #13 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 08:49 PM
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Tryg: Nice review, my question is isn't the JVC newer technology? Pearl has been out for awhile and the price difference is about $4999 for the Pearl and about $6200 for the RS-1 if memory serves me right. Also where either of these Pj's tweeked, in another thread some where on here they stated that they looked very similar.....Also thanks for the screen reviews..
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post #14 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 08:54 PM
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Garman - I think we can expect that the JVC will trump the Pearl in almost every way. Just as 6-9 months something introduced at CEDIA will likely do the same for the RS1. That's the nature of the game right now with the rate of change. Regarding the street price differences - the RS1 is more but not a whole lot more. Also keep in mind that many here are in on the RS1 pre-buy which was very aggressive and they are basing their "value" statements off of that.
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post #15 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 11:18 PM
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Great report Tryg, thanks. I can't believe what I am reading, Tryg expounding on the virtues of single-chip DLP? I never thought I 'd see the day! The HT3000 and the Vp11S1 changed my opinion of single-chip as well. The question that I bet a lot of people want to know the answer to, is whether you would take a RS1 over a D80, C3X or HT3000?

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post #16 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 11:25 PM
 
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"Great report Tryg, thanks. I can't believe what I am reading, Tryg expounding on the virtues of single-chip DLP?"

It's in his job description, fair and balanced.
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post #17 of 103 Old 01-10-2007, 11:31 PM
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I think that you will need masking if your room reflects light around. In other words, those poor people with floor/ceiling/walls that are not ultra dark
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post #18 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Garman - I think we can expect that the JVC will trump the Pearl in almost every way. Just as 6-9 months something introduced at CEDIA will likely do the same for the RS1. That's the nature of the game right now with the rate of change. .

Probably a dumb question but since native contrast performance without an iris was so advanced by the HD1 / RS1 implementation of LCOS technology from JVC, like the brightness performance from Canon with their implementation of the optical path, aren't these achievements in some way protected by patents for a period of time?

As far as Sony coming with a response at the next CEDIA or perhaps earlier, you would have to think JVC could very possibly come with their next model, sporting higher lumens and remote focussing / zooming / image shifting as well. We're probably heading into the realm of diminishing returns with the contrast performance aspect for most customers without bat cave capability.
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post #19 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

"Great report Tryg, thanks. I can't believe what I am reading, Tryg expounding on the virtues of single-chip DLP?"

It's in his job description, fair and balanced.

Just trying to inject a little humour, I guess this means I won't get an answer to my original question.

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post #20 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

JVC RS1. Wow this has definitely raised the bar for everyone else. JVC had their infamous Pearl vs. RS1 side by side demo and it definitely didn't disappoint. 15:000:1 native is a clear winner over the dynamic iris.

But is 15000:1 plus DI a winner over 15000:1. That is the question.
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post #21 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 03:54 AM
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Tryg
Was the HT5000 using a dual lamp design to boost brightness?

Mattias Ohlson
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post #22 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 04:41 AM
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Tryg,
Thanks for the pictures and your impressions on the JVC and Sim2 projectors. I'm looking forward to the review.
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post #23 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Great report Tryg, thanks. I can't believe what I am reading, Tryg expounding on the virtues of single-chip DLP....

...and picking the JVC DLA over his beloved Sony SXRD.

Great review.
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post #24 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 05:59 AM
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He has to be a bit more diplomatic now that he is a salesman.
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post #25 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbddvm View Post




Is that chicken wire?

It looks like some kind of screen door effect.


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post #26 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Probably a dumb question but since native contrast performance without an iris was so advanced by the HD1 / RS1 implementation of LCOS technology from JVC, like the brightness performance from Canon with their implementation of the optical path, aren't these achievements in some way protected by patents for a period of time?

Perhaps their technology is protected by patent(s). However that doesn't stop another manufacturer from achieving the same or similar results using a different technique/approach.

Quote:


As far as Sony coming with a response at the next CEDIA or perhaps earlier, you would have to think JVC could very possibly come with their next model, sporting higher lumens and remote focussing / zooming / image shifting as well. We're probably heading into the realm of diminishing returns with the contrast performance aspect for most customers without bat cave capability.

Its hard to know of course because manufacturers can leap frog one another. I do expect Sony to have an answer for the RS1, likely later this year (total speculation). Whether that surpasses what JVC is doing at the time who knows.

But I agree with you that at this point we are indeed starting to enter the world of diminishing returns. We're not quite at the "splitting hairs" level yet but getting there. Once we get to that point pj features, lens/optics quality, throw/mounting flexibility and service/warranty will start playing a bigger role in our pj selection.

Of course once we start setting laser and LED based light sources for front pjs (perhaps as soon as Cedia 07 or next year) then we get to start this process over, as some manufacturers will likely have better implementations than others until that technology stabilizes.
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post #27 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

...and picking the JVC DLA over his beloved Sony SXRD.

heh, Jim Armstrong of SIM2 when he sees me says "SXRD the new King" I've been labeled.


I'll try to answer some of these posts in one:

No plans yet for higher light output from JVC. You could always get the Sony 4k unit (they were showing it on about a 30 foot screen) and normally I would be raving about this but although its pretty awesome its not 15000:1. I'd much rather have the RS-1 and use a higher gain screen to get the same punch. dont get me wrong I will gladly embrace a 2500 lumen unit. That would leave the competition in the dust.

Bottom line everything else looks subrate when you can see gray bars.


There was definately a step up for contrast at the show for the RS1 and a few flat panels. Pioneers plasma going to over 20,000:1 was awesome. Sony's OLEDs doing 1,000,000 was simply breathtaking. Hopefully this one upsmanship will continue but you simply cant overlook products that are clearly out in front.


The Colors and Sharpness on the JVC and HT5000 were both top shelf

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post #28 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 07:42 AM
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Tryg, I just wanted to convey how much I appreciate your efforts here (and in all the other threads as well).
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post #29 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 07:47 AM
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Tryg, you have earned an xtra Booth Babe for this one. Good show.
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post #30 of 103 Old 01-11-2007, 08:10 AM
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Tryg
1 or 2 bulbs responsible for close to 4000 ANSI lumen?
I read somewhere that you can get ht5000 as a single or dual lamp projector.

Didn´t you go to see Novalux?

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