Mitsubishi HC5000 via eBay ... Buyer Beware - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all, just heads up. After reading several threads in this forum that discussed purchasing the Mitsubishi HC5000 from Japan for far less than available here via eBay seller home-theater-projection, whom I think several forum members have used successfully (lucky you), I took the plunge, bid on and won one on January 8, 2007. I'd purchased camera equipment this way (gray market; I am/was a professional photograher), with no problems, so I was a little nervous (any product that $$$ on eBay is scary), but not terrified.

Fast forward to now, and I'm out $3,067, don't have a projector and the seller is being, well, to put it bluntly, a total jerk. I don't know exactly what happened, but I didn't get my projector. DHL has investigated, and confirmed this (possible employee theft). Because it's been more than seven days, DHL says they can't change their online records, but this eBay seller has been personally contacted by DHL, and received the original airbill that shows non-delivery. (I also have a copy, that I'd be more than happy to show to anyone who wants to see it.) Still, the seller refuses to even pick up the phone and file an insurance claim with the shipper, which they've already told him they'll honor. (I paid for insurance on the package.)

Here's a sample exchange from this morning (skip to the next ellipse if you don't care) ...

------ Forwarded Message
From: Stephen Barger
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:11:44 -0500
To: 'SMW Auction'
Subject: RE: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #200066167874

You dont [sic] want to lose $3067, but have absolutely no problem stealing it from me, right? What we have is proof. I did ship you the projector, there is proof of that. There is also proof of delivery to your door and a signiture [sic] of S XXX on that delivered shipment. If this was stolen, then the process is for us to file insurance and you get refunded when and if DHL agrees that this is what actually happened. So it is OK for me to be the honest seller and ship you the item, but because of this insane claim that the delivery person stole this projector, you want me to pay for that? Yes, you paid for insurance which means, when and if insurance pays, then you get refunded. You say you will not lose $3067, but are willing to risk that by not following proceedure [sic]. Again, if we win the paypal dispute, are you OK with us not wanting to work with you at all on your insurance claim? I'll ask that again and I would like an answer to this - if we win the paypal dispute, are you OK with us not wanting to work with you at all on your insurance claim? Yes or No?

------ Forwarded Message
From: SMW Auction
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:02:03 -0600
To: Stephen Barger
Cc: "XXX XXX (DHL US)"
Subject: Re: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #200066167874

Mr. Barger,

I have spent a great deal of time and effort dealing with this matter already and, frankly, couldn't be more sick of it. Your belligerent conduct, in my opinion, has begun to border on harassment. I have offered every single bit of contact information I have, and Mr. XXX [DHL service manager] has been generous enough to do the same, and I also have offered to do ANYTHING (dealing with the police, take a polygraph, provide proof that the delivery couldn't have been made etc.). To date, you have yet to provide even a business phone number or address, and absolutely refuse to do the simplest things, including call DHL, or go online to look at a signature.

In my experience, insurance protects the shipper, not the receiver. You would get any insurance reimbursement, not me. The original shipper in Japan, according to Mr. XXX, have been made aware of this item's non-delivery, and have been in contact with [his] office, so feel free to call your distributor to discuss. As for why the web tracking still reflects the incorrect information ... I was told the online information could not be changed after seven days, but that ANYONE in the DHL network can see the changes based solely on the tracking number, so, again, please feel free to contact any DHL employee you wish to confirm this.

Mr. XXX also has said, several times, that they very much want to pursue this matter with the police, as based on times/destinations listed in the driver's log book there was no way he could have been at my house when he says he was. I don't want to accuse anybody of anything, but it does appear that the driver is the one who signed for this package. As for what happened then, your guess is as good as mine. As for how he could have got my name to enter into the record, well, it doesn't take a genius to know that it was WRITTEN ON THE PACKAGE. It's not as if he had to take a wild guess.

You are, supposedly, a business. And no business I know of can operate this way and expect to retain customers. And, yes, if I have to, I will be more than happy to tell my story regarding your conduct in this matter on eBay and other audio-visual forums I am a part of, as well as to the Better Business Bureau and any other consumer protection outlet I can find. Look, I've been an eBay member since 1999, and a Pay Pal member almost as long. Does it logically make any kind of sense that I've been laying in wait for eight years so that I could someday make a claim that I didn't receive a package from you?

I feel I have gone above and beyond to prove to you the truth in this matter, yet you refuse to believe it. Frankly, I'm shocked. I thought once you heard from DHL, this matter would be taken care of promptly. (Heck, I thought you might even go so far as to apologize for your past accusations.)

I deserve either the product I ordered, or a refund. I will go so far as to give you until February 8, 2007one month since I paid youto take care of this. If the matter is not fully resolved, via refund or delivery of the item I paid for (in the condition expected), I will do whatever I have to, up to and including small claims court if need be, to get my money refunded. That is the ONLY acceptable solution. There is really nothing else to say about this matter.

... end of message exchange (personal, identifying info redacted with an "XXX" for internet posting).

As you can probably tell, this has all been ongoing for a while now, but before DHL investigated and found a few things outlike the driver physically couldn't have been where he claimed he was for deliveries at the times entered due to distances between addresses, along with other suspicious activity; needless to say this person has since been let goI mostly understood Mr. Barger's reluctance to take my word that I hadn't received the item. (Though his rudeness and wild accusations were totally uncalled for.) But, now that DHL has contacted him, including trying to get him to participate in a local police investigation, I'm baffled why he still won't help. (All he would have to do is file the darned insurance claim). I have yet to escalate my Pay Pal dispute to a claim (whatever that means, I've never had to do this before), but DHL has said that only the shipper may file an insurance claim, so I have no recourse there. (Yesterday, Mr. Barger was claiming I was getting insurance money from DHL AND disputing the credit card charge with Pay Pal, hence double-dipping, despite the fact DHL had told him the shipper must make the claim and that the SHIPPER will be the one compensated directly. This is the last in a long line of theories that Mr. Barger has floated, and continues to lash out with, about how I'm stealing from him and committing fraud. He's also talked about persecuting meI'm gonna' assume he meant prosecutingfor telling Pay Pal I didn't get the package, which I didn't.)

Checking his feedbackmost tellingly the feedback he leaves for othersMr. Barger has a LOT of delivery problems, and is never wrong about ANYTHING. (A major red flag when it comes to making a purchase, at least in my book.) He also refuses to give out anything more than his name (Stephen Barger), and won't provide a phone number or business address to anyone, including DHL. (So far, anyway.) I'm kicking myself that I failed to double check all this before buying; a really idiotic lapse on my part, obviously.

I feel pretty stupid I'm in this position and just wanted to warn others who might be considering making a purchase from this guy. (Sorry, to anyone still reading, I know I've gone on and on and on.) It's not Mr. Barger's fault if a DHL (ex)employee did take/lose this package, but it's not mine either. And to expect me to pay for something I never received, when HE can make an insurance claim (not me), is beyond ridiculous. (I'm guessing he might not have purchased the insurance after all, though I was charged for it, which is why he's huffing and puffing so hard. But, again, that's only a guess.)

I should have waited and bought from a better source (lesson learned, trust me). And, if I ever get my $3,067 back, I'll still be in the market for a projector (likely the Mits HC5000--I haven't lost faith in that) which, no question, will NOT be from eBay.
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post #2 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 01:21 PM
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Don't you have any recourse with your credit card company? Or did you pay with check/cash?
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post #3 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I will contest with my credit card company if I have to, but I've heard scary things about Pay Pal and credit cards. I mostly just wanted to let others know (if they care) that this guy is bad news. I really will go to the wall, if need be, to make this right. I just hate that it had to happen in the first place.

Like I said, don't take my word for, just check his "feedback left for others" on eBay. He has TONS of negatives (often for shipping problems, nonshipment, etc.) and yet they don't show on his feedback total because he has them "mutually withdrawn." I feel so the fool!
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post #4 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susanandmark View Post

Yeah, I will contest with my credit card company if I have to, but I've heard scary things about Pay Pal and credit cards. I mostly just wanted to let others know (if they care) that this guy is bad news. I really will go to the wall, if need be, to make this right. I just hate that it had to happen in the first place.

Like I said, don't take my word for, just check his "feedback left for others" on eBay. He has TONS of negatives (often for shipping problems, nonshipment, etc.) and yet they don't show on his feedback total because he has them "mutually withdrawn." I feel so the fool!

I'm sure that if you're persistent, you will eventually get your money back from your credit card company but it may take a while! I'm surprised that with all the bad publicity this guy is still in business!!
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post #5 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 01:54 PM
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Hi!

Sorry to read this... assuming that what you said is true, you really got taken for.

I dealt with a similar issue on Ebay recently. I received goods with DHL that were significantly different than promised. I escalated to claim status with Paypal. They froze the funds and to make a long story short I was issued a full refund $1K.

Don't be nice with this guy. It does not work, I tried. They will deny everything. Filing a claim means you are going legit with Paypal. Make sure you enter all info immediately. They have limit on info supplied so enter it in a few postings. Once escalated to claim status the message system does not work anymore. Only communicate through Paypal, Ebay message system is not recognized as legit.

If there is Q. about the process you have, you can contact me.

Hope this helps and good luck!
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post #6 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 02:14 PM
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Isn't there a way to check with DHL if he bought insurance or not for the shipment? If he didn't, that would explain a lot...
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post #7 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 02:24 PM
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Clearly this is not a rational human. He is probably just funding his underground conspiracy theory movement.


Good luck.
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post #8 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jsmith757 View Post

Clearly this is not a rational human. He is probably just funding his underground conspiracy theory movement.

Thanks for the laugh, John, I needed that. I've now wasted almost three full days dealing with this (not including the back-and-forth before that happened) and it just feels so hopeless. (Plus, I keep kicking myself for stupidity.)

We had, had horrible weather here (or at least the powers-that-be thought it was horrible enough to cancel school for a full week), so I didn't start panicking about non-delivery for over a week. When I did check into it, I was shocked when this seller said I'd signed for this package I knew I'd never received. He wouldn't look at the DHL online signature, or even call DHL. He threw around a myriad of wild accusations and sent me many hostile, poorly-typed emails. I even offered to have my home security companyI had been racking my brain for a way to prove I didn't get the packageprovide a daily summary of alarm activation/deactiviation times for the day in question to show that our doors weren't opened at all between about 9 a.m. and 3-4 p.m. (delivery was supposedly at 11:39 a.m.), mostly because no one was home then.

Anywho, I called DHL myself and, eventually, received a call back from someone local who immediately started an investigation based on the fact that during the supposed delivery time, no deliveries were made in my town that he knew of, because of the weather. Anyway, after the driver failed to show up and talk to me as requested by DHL, I think something more intense happened internally and the next call I received was from the manager who said the driver had been terminated and they were confident I hadn't signed for the package. (I later heard, at various times, that the there were dozens of identical signatures in this guy's log and that he was claiming to deliver, and get signatures for, items that were physically located a good distance apart, all in a span of minutes; stuff like that.)

Now, this seller is emailing DHL and telling them they're wrong, the package was delivered and signed for and I'm stealing from him and we're all committing fraud, and a host of other asinine things. I've never met, nor spoken with, this DHL manager before last Friday, but yesterday he called me up and said Who is this yahoo?, after receiving one of the bizarre, accusatory emails.

If anyone wants a laugh, I'll be happy to send them all of Mr. Barger's emails to me. (It's not so funny to me, but I think it would be amusing if you weren't the one having to deal.)

This is definitely the kind of thing that gives eBay a bad name.

PS: DHL is supposedly investigating for me whether the package had insurance. Normally, that is something the shipper would have, but Mr. Barger has yet to respond to any direct queries to produce this proof of insurance, or give information to the local police department.
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post #9 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 03:13 PM
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Don't delay... take mbonikow's advice and start getting PayPal involved (and your credit card company). Barger sounds like a slippery bastard.
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post #10 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 03:41 PM
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I'll second that. Start the process with PayPal ASAP. If this yahoo really wanted to help he would have done it a long time ago. He does not deserve extra time to resolve this.
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post #11 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree he's likely not going to help (especially based on the two most recent emails I've received from him just tonight), but I did say I'd give him until February 8, so I feel like I need to. I have STARTED the process with Pay Pal, by opening a complaint, but won't "escalate" it to a "claim" until 2/8/07. (Pay Pal's language in quotes.)

Sorry, I'll stop going on (I'm not going to go back and forth with him anymore either) just wanted to make anyone thinking of shopping aware, and I guess I've done that. No need to rant to all you nice folks anymore. :-)
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post #12 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susanandmark View Post

I agree he's likely not going to help (especially based on the two most recent emails I've received from him just tonight), but I did say I'd give him until February 8, so I feel like I need to. I have STARTED the process with Pay Pal, by opening a complaint, but won't "escalate" it to a "claim" until 2/8/07. (Pay Pal's language in quotes.)

Sorry, I'll stop going on (I'm not going to go back and forth with him anymore either) just wanted to make anyone thinking of shopping aware, and I guess I've done that. No need to rant to all you nice folks anymore. :-)

Screw him... he's not playing fair so why should you? Besides, he might skip town and every day you delay means a day later to get your Mits HC5000 from a legitimate dealer like AVS.
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post #13 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 05:24 PM
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Holy crap! I just bought a projector from this guy over the weekend. Before I did I emailed three of his most recent buyers who had bought projectors. I wanted to make sure they all had a good experiences...they all did and highly recommended him. So, I took the plunge and purchased an HC3100. Are there any other members in this forum who have purchased projectors through this seller? If so, I'd like to hear of your experiences. I sure hope I get mine .
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post #14 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 06:13 PM
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To file a claim you need to be able to write Ingles
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post #15 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 06:26 PM
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I bought my HC5000 from this seller and he was very helpful. And I got the projector over the Christmas Holidays in 6 days.

But then again I paid immediately and the item arrived with no problems. Sometimes Ebay sellers can be jerks when there is trouble.

Sorry and I hope it works out all right.
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post #16 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 06:32 PM
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To be fair to him, it does appear that he shipped the PJ via DHL and it appears that the DHL driver did the ripping off.

He does have a recourse via insurance that was purchased and it doesnt seem unreasonable at all that he should file that insurance claim with them, if he did not get the package returned to him.

Either way, I would get the POLICE involved as there is THEFT (of a $3000 item - maybe a felony) involved. If someone signed for the package and you didnt then SOMEONE STOLE IT.

I would also have my credit card company, I hope you used American Express 8), reverse the charges and investigate it. I believe you get some theft protection for purchases you make with your AMEX, maybe with some other cards as well. 8)

You might want to look at your homeowners policy as well. You might get State Farm or Allstate involved in the matter on your behalf. .. not to mention possibly get your money back from them.
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post #17 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 07:04 PM
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You need to escalate this to a claim. Paypal should then see you paid with a CC and insist you go thru a chargeback if possible. Do not communicate with this seller anymore. Do not delay. No more Mr nice guy! If he wants his money it will be from DHL.

If you paid with a credit card that does chargebacks (not a debit card) then go thru that procedure. Be persistent, some CC companies will try to talk you out of it or blow you off, don't give up. This may take time so don't expect an overnight miracle.

A note on DHL. Somehow this company remains in business, regardless of it's track record. I had 5 of 7 packages in a 3 month period that either never made it to me or were damaged. They drive by and throw the package out at the end of the driveway! If they were free I wouldn't use them!

I am an eBay Powerseller and Powerbuyer (not recognized yet!) and know both sides of tranactions gone wrong.

And don't worry about neg feedback. If you receive it just reply with facts only, no emotions, same advice if you leave it for him.
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post #18 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by funny guy View Post

A note on DHL. Somehow this company remains in business, regardless of it's track record. I had 5 of 7 packages in a 3 month period that either never made it to me or were damaged. They drive by and throw the package out at the end of the driveway! If they were free I wouldn't use them!

DHL was once a good company with career delivery people and their own vehicles until they decided to merge with Airborne Express, who used outside contractors to provide the drivers and trucks to lower costs. They laid off all of their drivers and the shoddy service followed immediately. Sad to say that this seems to be the direction most couriers are going, I applaude the companies that still retain their own real employees in face of competition from the businesses with "new" way to operate.
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post #19 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 08:29 PM
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Did I understand you to say that DHL cannot tell you if this shipment was insured? They can track a package across the world, tell you where it is at any given time of the day, but they don't know if it was insured??

I suppose the seller could be avoiding a claim because he pocketed your insurance money. These yahoos will do anything to make an extra buck.

Whether you used a credit card or debit card (debit cards are still backed by Visa or MasterCard ), file a claim now. PayPal is actually the seller of record, so they hate it when you file a claim with your CC company. If you've read their account policies carefully, you'll see they advise strongly against initiating a chargeback, and they threaten to suspend your PayPal account if you do so. Do it anyway. The chargeback impacts their pocketbook, and they in turn will go after this clown like there is no tomorrow. If the seller is providing good income for PayPal based on his volume of auctions, they probably won't close his account, but they will intercept his funds until they get their money back.

Make the call now, and you should have an account credit within 24 hours. Let PayPal chase him.

And shame on DHL for having evidence of theft by one of their subcontractors and not taking care of you immediately.

This seller has displayed his true colors for all here to see.
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post #20 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 08:40 PM
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I got my hc5000 via Anewdigital in Hong Kong. The transaction was via ebay and had no hitches whatsoever. The fault is not entirelly that of the seller because he actually shipped the product. I would say DHL should be held accountable more because they made the blunder in the first place.

But then again, he should have been more diplomatic in dealing with the situation.
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post #21 of 246 Old 01-30-2007, 10:20 PM
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And shame on DHL for having evidence of theft by one of their subcontractors and not taking care of you immediately.

I think they are simply abiding by their contractual agreement. What if they do take care of him only to have the shipper file a claim after he is reimbursed? Could be grounds for a lawsuit.
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post #22 of 246 Old 01-31-2007, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scrubsr1 View Post

Holy crap! I just bought a projector from this guy over the weekend. Before I did I emailed three of his most recent buyers who had bought projectors. I wanted to make sure they all had a good experiences...they all did and highly recommended him. So, I took the plunge and purchased an HC3100. Are there any other members in this forum who have purchased projectors through this seller? If so, I'd like to hear of your experiences. I sure hope I get mine .

I hope all goes well for you; honestly, I do and am sorry for scaring you. I do think, that if all goes well (you receive the projector with no damage), things should be OK. Like I said initially, I read about others here with good experiences before I made my purchase, so it's totally likely things won't go south. It's often only when there's an issue (of any kind), that you see the bad side of these sort of things. I guess I should know better since there was someone else a year or so ago (non-eBay) that I made three or four successful purchases with prior, and even raved about on AVS (quick shipment, clear instructions); it was only when an item arrived damaged that I saw his true colors come out. (Nothing was his fault, I must have done something wrong because I'm so stupid, I'm lying, etc.)

I, too, have been both buyer and seller and on eBay and can see both sides. That's why, like I said, I understood Mr. Barger's initial skepticism. I mean, if DHL says I got it, why would he believe I wouldn't? He could have been nicer, sure, but I do get it. It's only SINCE DHL has confirmed my non-receipt that I've really lost all patience with his hostile attitude and random accusations, not to mention the continued refusal to be even moderately helpful.

I agree with everyone here. I think this guy probably really did send the projector (I hope so anyway), and DHL IS to blame (like someone noted here, I was told this driver in question was a subcontractor). The difference being: DHL IS taking responsibility and have told me they're filing a police report, which is why they want the seller's participation, which Mr. Barger has so far refused. DHL admits they screwed up, and have tried to contact this guy themselves to INITIATE a claim, and he simply refuses to give them any contact info (beyond the email I passed on, which is all I had), or even pick up the phone to call himself. Mr. Barger just says, over and over, that I, and DHL now too apparently, are trying to "steal" from him and that he is an "honest seller" who "did everything right.

As far as DHL is concerned, Mr. Barger is the client and he's the only one they can deal with (insurance-wise). I don't personally know DHL's procedures, because I don't ship with them, and I've never had to deal with anything this pricey before, but I have had to file a UPS insurance claim and they would ONLY deal with me, the shipper, and I was the one who got the check after they confirmed the item was damaged/broken in transit.

I haven't especially active on eBay in the last year or so, so the big lesson I learned was to check not only the feedback received, but the feedback left as well as the comments that have been voided with that mutually withdrawn policy.
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post #23 of 246 Old 01-31-2007, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, last rant, I promise. After my last post I received an email that said, to make a long story short, he's not going to help, so I've given up and filed claims with Pay Pal and credit card and left neg feedback. (I'm sure he'll do the same.)

I really don't think I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with someone this, to put it politely, odd before, eBay or not.

This is from the DHL service manager to Mr. Barger who has said he rejects the DHL air bill showing non-delivery that DHL, and I, have sent him ...

"From: XXX (DHL US) [mailto:XXX.XXX@dhl.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:02 PM
To: Stephen Barger [mailto:XXX@XX]

"Mr Barger has made no attempt to contact me nor has he provided a contact number to reach him. It is doubtful that he has made any attempt to contact DHL as he would not be connected directly to the claims department. The history on the airbill has been updated-there would be no question of the status of the shipment when it is reviewed by anyone in the DHL network. I have been in contact with my counterpart in Japan in an attempt to confirm the shipper purchased insurance on the shipment when it was sent to you-still waiting on confirmation. Once we receive the serial number of the missing item we will file a police report with the XXX [city name redacted] PD along with the name, address and other pertinent information for the person formerly employed by my independent delivery contractor.

"Again, I am available at any time to discuss this matter with you and/or Mr Barger. I can be contacted at XXX-XXX-XXX from 7am to 5pm or later anytime. I will be happy to contact Mr. Barger to discuss this matter IF he provides a means of contact.

"XXX XXX
DHL Express
District Field Service Manager
XXX
Oklahoma City, OK XXX"

This is Mr. Barger's response (he cc'ed me, as did DHL) ...

"From: Stephen Barger [mailto:XXX@XX]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:13 PM
To: 'XXX XXX (DHL US)'

"Seem [sic] like you and susan are taking the same medication???

"XXX the means of contact and our conversations have been via email. What is this No Attempt to contact you non-sence [sic]? Please explain this as I'm completely perplexed by this comment of No Attemp [sic] to contact you, when you and I have been in FULL COMMUNICATION via email. Is this not true????? I did not ship this, my distributor did. They have been made fully aware of this situation, but they as do we, find all of this completely ludicris [sic] and difficult to believe this situation when tracking shows a completely different story. Id [sic] still like either you or susan to explain to me exactly what I have done wrong here???"

[end]

I'll spare you all the long, ranting and totally bizarre email he sent me this morning (if anyone wants to see it, I'll pass it on) that finally pushed me over the edge to just give up and file a claim/make a charge back, but I will note that this guy has 19 negative feedbacks, including mine, as of today; five of those in the past month. There are 11 negative or neutral comments about shipping problems alone since YESTERDAY, Jan. 30, as well as at least one positive that mentions shipping issues; again, all in 24 hours. There are also 64 mutually withdrawn feedback comments, including three from Jan. 30, ALL regarding non-delivery.

In what I hope is his last email, Mr. Barger clearly told me he has no intention of resolving the matter by February 8, a month after he received payment, as requested, and accused me of EXTORTION for asking that he do so. He also said (in response to me saying I will let other consumers know how he treats customers, via a Better Business Bureau and Bay/other forum postings): What exactly would you tell the better business bureau I did wrong (be careful with this one, if you LIE or exagerate [sic] the truth, as you have proven to do above over and over again, we can file Defamation of Character and Defamation of Business Stature against you and will be glad to prosecute if you lie to them. Again, we have done nothing wrong here.. [sic]
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post #24 of 246 Old 01-31-2007, 11:21 AM
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I would file the police report with your city police, as the theft apparently occured in your city, with DHL's delivery person forging your signature and have them pursue the investigation with DHL and their delivery person.

I would say that EVEN if the shipper out of Japan did not purchase insurance for the package, if DHL has a delivery person that they are admitting to you made questionable "non-deliveries" and your supposed signature matches those of several other signatures from that day I would argue that DHL is responsible to you for the contents of that package anyways.

Imagine having to buy insurance from UPS for theft from UPS employees?

Your homeowners policy might also protect you from theft of your personal property, probably even if it was supposed to have been left on your doorstep. If they do pay you for your loss, dont worry because I am certain they would pursue it for subrogation from DHL and its employee.

Thats what you pay for insurance for.

Quote:


I did not ship this, my distributor did. They have been made fully aware of this situation, but they as do we, find all of this completely ludicris [sic] and difficult to believe this situation when tracking shows a completely different story. Id [sic] still like either you or susan to explain to me exactly what I have done wrong here???"

You bought this with INSURANCE for a reason. If for some reason there is no insurance, I dont think its your responsibility .. its the SELLERS. I dont think there should be a problem with the charge being returned/cancelled specially with all your documentation from DHL.
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post #25 of 246 Old 01-31-2007, 02:16 PM
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I'd threaten to lawyer up that gets things moving, good thing is you got insurance
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post #26 of 246 Old 01-31-2007, 02:39 PM
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Thanks for the heads up as I almost ordered some buttkickers from this guy.
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post #27 of 246 Old 02-01-2007, 02:12 AM
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You can get the seller's contact information (click advanced search on an eBay page and click the contact info link on the left side of the advanced search page). You can try calling him at the contact number he provided. If the contact phone number is incorrect and you cannot reach him through that number, you can report his incorrect contact info to eBay, which should allow you to then request that the negative he left you be removed.

Also, the listing indicates that the product was in the US. As the product was shipped to you from Japan, the seller has misrepresented the items location and you can report him (search eBay help for 'Item Location Misrepresentation').

If you go through PayPal, you are covered for only the first $2K of your purchase (see the bottom of the listing). Also, PayPal hates touching paper and it would seem that proving your point to PayPal will require a letter from DHL. It is quite possible that you would lose your case with PayPal if the seller can show an online record of delivery.

As you paid via a credit card, I suggest immediately disputing the charge. If you can get something in writing from DHL stating that the online record is incorrect and that the package was not delivered, you should be OK. Note that once you initiate a chargeback, my understanding is that PayPal will assume that you are no longer pursuing it through them.

I would pursue with the credit card company first. Maybe there is a viable insurance claim option, but as you never received the PJ, I rather doubt it (to honor such a claim woud be to essentially provide you with shipping insurance).

Personally, I would only file a police report if DHL does not cooperate by providing you with documentation of non-delivery and you need to apply some pressure or if your credit card issuer asks you to.

This advice is worth what you have paid for it, but it does come from a Silver PowerSeller.

P.S. I ship with DHL and am very happy with their very prompt and reliable delivery. On the receiving end, I have had the most problems with UPS. All of them contract out some of their locations, and in those locations, you are at the mercy of the diligence of the local contractor. Stuff happens. I once had a package stolen from a DHL cage at the Oakland, CA airport. DHL processed my claim very quickly. In this case, it looks like the driver was a thief.

While DHL may well be liable here, I would contact your credit card issuer and let them worry about it if they want to (you are just a customer who did not received a product you paid for using a credit card). If the buyer did indeed buy insurance, he may not have gotten it through DHL - there are third party insurers.

Get your money back through your CC issuer. If the seller did insure the package, let him deal with it - maybe he will get the picture then. If his distributor insured the package, let him deal with the distributor to get his money back.

Jacob
'Take me to the movies cause I love to sit in the dark', 'Baby Doll', Laurie Anderson, 'Strange Angels', 1989
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post #28 of 246 Old 02-01-2007, 04:29 AM
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You want to get your money back as easily as possible.

Paypal and/or your credit card company should be in a position to fix this in the easiest way possible. Pursue those remedies vigorously.

I don't know where the seller is located but I suspect that you will have a problem getting jurisdiction over him in small claims court. That means that you effectively won't be in a position to sue him. This is what feedback is for.

You can sue DHL. This is not about insurance. Insurance is meant to protect the shipper. The shipper here is completely uncooperative. DHL should make right by you in the absence of any insurance because their employee stole from you and they know it. Legally, they may have a defense because employers are nomally not liable for the crimes of their employees unless they knew in advance of the employee's propensity to committ those crimes. Still, most small claims courts are pro-plaintiff and are charged with doing "substantial justice". I would be that DHL would fix this before it came to any hearing.

Again, your best bet is through pay pal or your credit card company.

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post #29 of 246 Old 02-01-2007, 05:43 AM
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Im not an attorney, so ill defer to Lawguy on the recommendations, however Lawguy, being that DHL is in the business of taking custody of other peoples property and properly and successfully delivering the property arent they held to a higher standard regarding employee theft of customer property than a company who isnt in the business of taking custody of property?

There are Bailee Customers Insurance, or some type of bonds, that SURELY one would expect DHL or UPS to carry. With GPS tracking, cameras, and delivery signatures being monitored wirelessly/electronically I think it could be argued that they should have known something was up with this guy.

I dont know what, if any of that, is implied or is explicit in their service descriptions and assurances but it seems to me that they should be responsible for it .. but then again Im not an attorney, I just slept at the Holiday Inn last night. 8)
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post #30 of 246 Old 02-01-2007, 06:09 AM
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I've slept in plenty of Holiday Inns too.

I assumed from the structure of the deal that title to the goods did not pass until delivery was made. Thus, it would make sense that the insurance protects the owner of the goods: the shipper.

The OP never had title as she never signed for the goods. There is insurance available for every purpose. The only kind mentioned was the kind that protects the seller. I assume no other exists for this transaction.

DHL would be liable to the owner/shipper as a bailee. This bailment may be subject to some contractual limitation in the shipping agreement. That is likely why insurance is offered. Still, I suspect that DHL would make things right as it is aware of the theft.

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