Any BenQ W9000 Owners Out There? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1162 Old 01-31-2007, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Interested in this model... Very interested.

Wondered if anyone has laid their hands on it yet and if so, what their impressions are. It really seems like the W9000 shares almost 100% of the exact same functionality as its big brother which has numerous reviews, except come in will a smaller DLP chip.

99% of the image quality? Yeah, I'll take that to save a fair chunk of money. But, really, I want to hear from an owner out there!


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post #2 of 1162 Old 01-31-2007, 07:16 PM
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Yeah I was pretty surprised by the street price on this unit. It's available, it's inexpensive, it's got that DLP picture (for those that are looking for DLP picture traits) at a price that's within touching distance of the Pearls and 1080p 3LCDs of the world.

Without reviews I wouldnt jump on it either.
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post #3 of 1162 Old 01-31-2007, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

It's available, ....


Is it?


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post #4 of 1162 Old 01-31-2007, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

Yeah I was pretty surprised by the street price on this unit. It's available, it's inexpensive, it's got that DLP picture (for those that are looking for DLP picture traits) at a price that's within touching distance of the Pearls and 1080p 3LCDs of the world.

Without reviews I wouldnt jump on it either.


You have no balls. If you are going to buy without seeing it in person, make sure you buy from a dealer that has a exchange policy that if not happy you can change it out for something else or get a refund. AVS is one that will.

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post #5 of 1162 Old 01-31-2007, 11:55 PM
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As far as I have been able to ascertain from BenQ and vendor web sites (neither of which are necessarily 100% reliable) the only differences between W10000 & W9000 are:

1) price

2) different contrast ratio spec (10000 vs. 8500)

3) warranty (3yrs vs 1 yr)

The contrast ratio differences could, I suppose, be real if BenQ decided to limit via firmware the amount the iris in the W9000 could be stopped down relative to the W10000. I have not seen any mention of different DMDs. AV_Integrated what is your source for the "smaller DLP chip" ?

Brent
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post #6 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwishred View Post

As far as I have been able to ascertain from BenQ and vendor web sites (neither of which are necessarily 100% reliable) the only differences between W10000 & W9000 are:

1) price

2) different contrast ratio spec (10000 vs. 8500)

3) warranty (3yrs vs 1 yr)

The contrast ratio differences could, I suppose, be real if BenQ decided to limit via firmware the amount the iris in the W9000 could be stopped down relative to the W10000. I have not seen any mention of different DMDs. AV_Integrated what is your source for the "smaller DLP chip" ?

Brent

BenQ own website claims the W10000 uses an older 0.95" DMD and the W9000 uses a newer 0.80" DMD.

UPDATE: The website has been corrected. There is no 0.80" 1080p DMD at this point in time.
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post #7 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 06:04 AM
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A .8 DMD for 1080p would be great as it would allow makers to use lower costing lenses with shorter throws, and get the costs down to 720P levels, and make installing the projectors much easier than now for those of us with smaller rooms.

I'm not sure to trust information on Benq's site as it seems error prone and you'd think we hear from TI if a smaller 1080P DMD is in production?


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post #8 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 07:24 AM
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My rep told me the same thing about the new chip and it makes sense to me. TI has made a number of different 720p chips to hit different price points, why would they not do the same with the 1080p chips.
Anyway, I have a W9000 in route to me, should be here by Monday at the latest. I'm hoping it shows up on Friday but it probably won't.
I'll throw it up against my Samsung 710 and see how it does.
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post #9 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 08:08 AM
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I doubt TI already is capable to make 0.80 1080p dmds. Already the 0.95 1080p dmd was the result of decreased mirror size through a process shrink.

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post #10 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 09:26 AM
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Could they be using a wobulated 1080p chip?
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post #11 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

I doubt TI already is capable to make 0.80 1080p dmds. Already the 0.95 1080p dmd was the result of decreased mirror size through a process shrink.


Well, they are allready doing a 0.65 1080p DMD for backprojection... Although they tilt the mirrors in a different angle, more suited for backprojection optics...

I haven't heard anything of a 0.80 1080p DMD for frontprojection though... If this is the case... Please tell us more!!!

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post #12 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 09:45 AM
 
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I was considering this pj as well, when you get it could you mention the fan noise. I'm coming from a infocus 7205 so fan noise is a big issue for me.

Thanks
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post #13 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Corr View Post

My rep told me the same thing about the new chip and it makes sense to me. TI has made a number of different 720p chips to hit different price points, why would they not do the same with the 1080p chips.
Anyway, I have a W9000 in route to me, should be here by Monday at the latest. I'm hoping it shows up on Friday but it probably won't.
I'll throw it up against my Samsung 710 and see how it does.


I will be interested in hearing your opinion of the upgrade. I upgraded from a 710 to a W10000 and love the image on the 10000 much more.

Dale
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post #14 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevivoe View Post

BenQ own website claims the W10000 uses an older 0.95" DMD and the W9000 uses a newer 0.80" DMD.

Well spotted. The US BenQ website does indeed say this whereas the global BenQ website does not. However, as of right now, the US Benq website states that the W10000 also has 0.8" DMD and 8500:1 CR. Go figure.

If the chip size really is different then perhaps we will see the zoom range increase. Currently the US website is specifying 1.35:1 zoom ratios for both W1000 & W9000 whereas the global website is specifying 1.15:1 for both.

Brent
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post #15 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 11:03 AM
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I'll let you guys know as soon as I get it. UPS shows delivery for monday but I'm hoping it shows up on Friday.
Just to clarify, It's not my projector, it's for an install in a couple weeks. But if it looks good, I may return my 710 and get my own W9000. Projector is mounted with 4' of my head so fan noise is definitly a concern for me as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azjetski View Post

I will be interested in hearing your opinion of the upgrade. I upgraded from a 710 to a W10000 and love the image on the 10000 much more.

Dale

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post #16 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 11:08 AM
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The 0.65 for rear projection is 960x1080 only.

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post #17 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 11:41 AM
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No, they have a new 0.65" 1920x1080 1080p chip... Not the old wobulated one...
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post #18 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

I doubt TI already is capable to make 0.80 1080p dmds. Already the 0.95 1080p dmd was the result of decreased mirror size through a process shrink.


It is indeed a newer 0.8" DMD. This summer you will see 0.68" 1080p DMD in front projectors.
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post #19 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 12:14 PM
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Does a smaller chip result in dimmer image reflecting less light?


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post #20 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Corr View Post

I'll let you guys know as soon as I get it. UPS shows delivery for monday but I'm hoping it shows up on Friday.
Just to clarify, It's not my projector, it's for an install in a couple weeks. But if it looks good, I may return my 710 and get my own W9000. Projector is mounted with 4' of my head so fan noise is definitly a concern for me as well.

Brian - I would be super interested in hearing a quick review/opinion from you. Please, with the following details:

1. How does it look overall?
2. Is the zoom range 1.15:1 or 1.35:1?
3. Is the lens shift one full screen height either direction? Or just 50% up/down?

Thanks! I have two jobs with W10000 projectors specified on and I am more about giving clients the best value instead of the most expensive product. If I can get a vote of confidence in the W9000 over the W10000 then I'll go that route and pass some savings onto them.


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post #21 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 12:18 PM
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Does the smaller chip mean it has a longer throw?
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post #22 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 12:24 PM
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@Kevivoe


Can you please give us some more info or a link to this new 0.80" 1080p chip??
Even the new 0.68" 1080p chip....

At the BenQ US site both w10000, w9000 and the old 8720 uses a 0.80" Chip!!
It looks like they have copy pasted the spec....

Shovven
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post #23 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevivoe View Post

It is indeed a newer 0.8" DMD. This summer you will see 0.68" 1080p DMD in front projectors.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it would be really helpful if you could provide a few more details on the source of this information.

Brent
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post #24 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwishred View Post

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it would be really helpful if you could provide a few more details on the source of this information.

Brent

Gee, you want me to get in trouble?

Maybe I have already said more than I should have. The size is now public knowledge with BenQ listing it on their website. I guess it could have been more clear but some HTML coders taking direction from some BenQ marketing and I can see where confusion can creep in.

If you look at the size shrink of the 720p DMD's over the years and the things that were done to boost volume, it should not be such a stretch for you to compute the future 1080p DMD products. Do you think DLP is going to suddenly fade in the face of D-ILA, LCD and SRXD competition?

Summer of 2007 and we'll know more I'm sure ... but anybody can predict this ... even with the aforementioned technologies.

K
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post #25 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 02:32 PM
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kevivoe - You have now said just enough to convince me

So, now it looks like there is a more substantive difference between the W9000 & W10000 than just marketing specs. However, I don't understand the various trades in chip performance and optical path performance to know just how much difference the chip swap will make the final visual experience...

Thanks, Brent
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post #26 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 02:42 PM
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If they're really using a smaller DMD, I wonder if the zoom range increases, because the W10000 had to reduce the zoom range to keep from vignetting the larger chip.
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post #27 of 1162 Old 02-01-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

If they're really using a smaller DMD, I wonder if the zoom range increases, because the W10000 had to reduce the zoom range to keep from vignetting the larger chip.

There is another thing that matters. Let's say the overall DMD surface area shrinks. The inter pixel gap may have shrunk too but if it doesn't shrink as much as the pixel surface area then I would expect contrast to degrade because the inter pixel gap is somewhat reflective. I'm no expert here but this might explain the contrast ratio difference also. I am assuming the maximum tilt of the pixels in the DMD remains the same as DC3 or >12 degrees.

K
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post #28 of 1162 Old 02-05-2007, 08:41 PM
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I received a W9000 today and fired it up under my Samsung 710. My room is a cave and the screen is a 110" Carada BW.
First, the throw calculator on PC seems pretty close. The lense is about 159" (give or take an inch) to the screen and the height of the image ranges from 44 1/4" to 50 3/4", again, give or take a little.
The IRIS has 38 steps.
The pixels are SQUARE.
It is quiet, almost silent. The Samsung 710 is louder.
It seemed a little brighter than my Samsung (which has about 100 hrs on it).
I did a quick basic calibration with the get grey dvd and then flipped back and forth between the 2. I had a buddy over as well for a 2nd opinion.
There is very little difference in visible resolution from 12' back.
The Samsung appeared to have a sharper picture. This was visible on HD as well as putting up the on screen menu from my receiver. The W9 didn't look bad, but switching between the 2, it was obviously not as sharp. The letters for instance weren't as defined. Focus had no effect on this, we double checked. It was focused as sharp as possible.
I've noticed similiar traits between the different 720p chips, where the smaller chips don't appear as sharp and detailed to me. I'm assuming this may also apply to the different 1080p chips.
Nothing really stood out as an improvement over the Samsung in both our opinions. I wouldn't call it an upgrade, more of a sideways move in this case. The W9 could use some more calibration and I haven't played with the different iris settings so please take that into consideration.
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post #29 of 1162 Old 02-05-2007, 10:54 PM
 
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Ouch, I'm glad I read this I was about to pull the trigger on it and now I'm going to do some more research
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post #30 of 1162 Old 02-05-2007, 11:39 PM
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Brian -

Great idea to measure height ratio . 50.75/44.25 comes out to a zoom ratio of 1.147:1. Close enough to the 1.15 spec for the 0.95" DMD chip in the W10000. A larger zoom ratio would have been consistent with use of the smaller chip. So, just based on this piece of evidence we can conclude that either (a) the W90000 is also using the 0.95" chip or (b) it could be using the 0.8" chip and the BenQ engineers didn't get around to retooling the stops to crank up the zoom range.

BTW, your throw ratio measurments work out to 1.76 ~ 2.02 whereas the projector central calculator is 1.81 ~ 2.07. Pretty close.

It would be interesting if someone with a W10000 could tell us how many steps its iris control has. The reduced contrast spec of the W9000 could be simply achieved in firmware by limiting how far the iris closes down. For a given step size this would lead to less steps on the W9000 vs the W10000.

Very interesting comments on the W9000 vs the Samsung H710. While on the one hand most reviews of the H710 are very positive, the review of the H710 at projectorreviews.com gave the nod to the BenQ 8720 over the H710 in the sharpness department, and I would have expected the W9000 to be a step up from that again. I am wondering if your HD feed was 720p or 1080i ?

Brent
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