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post #1 of 46 Old 02-23-2007, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I am planning on setting up a high end golf simulator for home and perhaps small business. The projectors that are recommended for these high def systems seem fairly modest by home theater standards. For example a Pana PT-LB60U is considered a significant upgrade. The screens these are projected on are not home theater screens, and likely made of kevlar as a golf ball is driven into them, so is it a waste to put a much better quality projector, such as A PT-AX100 (Costco 1599/w 400 rebate) or the 1000U with 3300 or so with the Costco rebate (Seems this is no longer avail). Mention Pana as that is what they include, but when do you lose noticeable improvement based on the limitations of the environment/screen. The unit is not inexpensive (60K) range, but I have worked out a "demo" price to save about 20K for two units. They said I can provide much of the hardware if I choose, as I have been involved (though lately infrequently) on the forum, I realize I have access to far better equipment at far better prices. But I don't want to upgrade to something that will not be noticeably better. The simulator is made by Full Swing Golf. For the players out there, it is pretty cool stuff. ( http://www.fullswinggolf.com/)
Thanks for the input.

Jeff
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post #2 of 46 Old 02-23-2007, 05:50 AM
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Curious how far or where the position of the projector get's placed. Do you have any idea (Short throw?)? That might narrow your decision down.

Joe.T
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post #3 of 46 Old 02-23-2007, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Fairly long throw from about 15-17 feet back. I think one of the issues might be illumination. Was talking to the rep and he said the ultra high contrast is not as necessary as gray vs black is not an issue and it is more graphics. But high output does seem important. For that reason the higher end projectors with 1100-1200 lumens like the Pana 1000 might be a poor choice. He said they use LCD because of the cost, but DLP would be better if it were durable with expected high use. Thanks for the feedback.

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post #4 of 46 Old 02-23-2007, 04:45 PM
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I would guess you need more like 3000 lumens for environments that bright. Look at Canon SX6
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post #5 of 46 Old 02-23-2007, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. The "upgraded" projector they offer, the Pana 60U is 2500 lumens. I will look into the Canon. They also said the projector must be able to throw a 12'W X 9' H image from about 15-18'. Thanks

Jeff
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post #6 of 46 Old 02-23-2007, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Any thought DLP vs LCD as far as which would be better suited?
Jeff
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post #7 of 46 Old 02-24-2007, 04:18 AM
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too bad you couldn't do this in a custom home theater!

AI Limited
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post #8 of 46 Old 02-24-2007, 06:37 AM
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You can! Just hit the golf balls at your da-lite screen and before long there holes in it, but that OK just hit it in a different spot next time!

Current Projects:
IN PROGRESS (80%) - Building 3D Theater room.
IN PROGRESS (30%) - Building Lounge/Hallway Area.
IN PROGRESS (15%) - Building Home LAN (4 PCs).
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ON HOLD - Building Simulation Room (Eyefinity).
ON HOLD - Building Theater room (Sim2 HT380, 2.35 14ft wide).
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post #9 of 46 Old 02-24-2007, 07:29 AM
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I have a simulator that I built in the garage and I use a Hitachi cp-x340. It is rated at 1500 lumens, and I have always found it adequate for the job. It definately helps when the lights are dimmed, but I've even had buddys over to watch boxing matches with the lights fully on, and no one has ever complained. Just keep in mind that you will want a 4x3 projector and not a 16x9 for this job.
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post #10 of 46 Old 02-24-2007, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jscopus View Post

Any thought DLP vs LCD as far as which would be better suited?
Jeff

LCD bigger bang for buck and no color separation(rainbows) when swinging the club
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post #11 of 46 Old 02-24-2007, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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You certainly can do this in your home. That was my initial thought. Than I got inspired and thought it might be a fun cottage industry. Have a small commercial building I can put two in. Will pay a healthy rent to ourselves, cover the cost of the machines and probably make a few bucks. But my son and I will use it extensively. I am a pretty decent player and he (15) is developing into a very strong player. Will be a great equalizer for the months of bad weather. I think illumination is more important hear than contrast as the "upgrade" unit has only 400:1. I think 2500lumens+ and 800:1 contrast, XGA will be more than enough. Need to throw a 4:3 12x9 from 18-20'. Tryg- calculating all those variables, which projector is the most bang for the buck?? Thanks all. BTW, I think the screen probably has some kevlar in it and can be used for home theater, just not with this crowd that would be too discriminating.
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post #12 of 46 Old 02-24-2007, 09:46 PM
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Use the projectorcentral.com search engine. You'll find dozens with that criteria
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post #13 of 46 Old 02-25-2007, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tryg-
Had been there and as always appreciate the input. Have been away from this for some time now and feel like I need to learn to walk again. There are many that fit the parameters, interestingly, the ones they recommend are such lame projectors. As the simulator units are ultra high end (used at the Masters, Pebble Beach etc) I am guessing the specs are not critical. But these are golfers, not audio/videophiles. I still believe to a point, there is a benefit to somewhat more contrast and resolution. It is a "high def" signal, so it will make me secretly pleased to know it is tweaked right to the point of diminished return. I will try to be more diligent and frequent the forum more so I don't ask such lame questions, but the insight and expertise firepower available here is always superb. As opposed to asking some self important, full of babel sales person at a high end shop who may or may not know what the heck he/she is talking about. Thanks all for the info.

Jeff Hartford
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post #14 of 46 Old 02-25-2007, 08:56 AM
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So where abouts are you setting up this system? Have you been to other facilities that use fullswing system? What do you plan to charge people to play a course? I would assume it takes just as long to play a simulated game as it does to play an actual round of golf (4-5 hrs), so with 2 systems you are only talking about getting maybe a max 6 foursomes per day. I'm just asking as I'm wondering what it takes to make the business model profitable.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jscopus View Post

I am planning on setting up a high end golf simulator for home and perhaps small business. The projectors that are recommended for these high def systems seem fairly modest by home theater standards. For example a Pana PT-LB60U is considered a significant upgrade. The screens these are projected on are not home theater screens, and likely made of kevlar as a golf ball is driven into them, so is it a waste to put a much better quality projector, such as A PT-AX100 (Costco 1599/w 400 rebate) or the 1000U with 3300 or so with the Costco rebate (Seems this is no longer avail). Mention Pana as that is what they include, but when do you lose noticeable improvement based on the limitations of the environment/screen. The unit is not inexpensive (60K) range, but I have worked out a "demo" price to save about 20K for two units. They said I can provide much of the hardware if I choose, as I have been involved (though lately infrequently) on the forum, I realize I have access to far better equipment at far better prices. But I don't want to upgrade to something that will not be noticeably better. The simulator is made by Full Swing Golf. For the players out there, it is pretty cool stuff. ( http://www.fullswinggolf.com/)
Thanks for the input.

Jeff

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post #15 of 46 Old 02-25-2007, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, it plays much faster than a regular round as you don't have to walk/ride to your ball. Sort of watching TV with no commercials? I will be down at San Diego to look at the units but they come with glowing recommendations. They are about the only system that was built from the ground up, not retroadapting missle technology or other concepts. It was designed to track a golf ball and the people in the industry I have spoken to say it does a remarkably good job. There are many other units out there, most more reasonably priced. I am not looking at it so much as a business, as I would suspect you would need more units if it was your livelihood. But I have a day job, and a family that loves golf. Am a pretty decent player and have a 15 yo that I think can become a strong, collegiate player. We also have a small commercial building that we could put it in. My goal, pay a healthy rent, pay my son to work their, practice/play a lot myself, and cover the costs of the units. They do have recommended guidelines that will be sent to me. Locally a place in our area charges about 55/hour. I am not sure how that compares with what they recommend. I have a laundry list of marketing ideas and my wife is truly a marketing genius of national preportions. Unfortunately, she has not gotten behind the project yet. So I can't answer many of your questions, but you can read the info on the web site.
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post #16 of 46 Old 02-25-2007, 04:31 PM
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Do you know of a specific place in Northern CA (San Francisco Bay area) that has this system? Or was the $55/hr just a recommended fee for CA? I haven't heard of a place that has this system, but if you know of one I'd love to try it out.

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post #17 of 46 Old 02-25-2007, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
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If you go to their website, I am sure you can track them down. I live outside of Princeton NJ so I am not aware who has them in Northern Ca. If you have a Dick's Sports center, many of their golf facilities have full swing machines. Many colleges as well. I pulled that number out of you know where. I think an area place around us charges that for a different system. It might be higher in CA relative to local greens fees?

Jeff
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post #18 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 05:58 AM
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whats the cost for using there technology ?
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post #19 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 06:52 AM
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Slightly OT but a golf simulator employing this technology would be awsome!

// Lyckman
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post #20 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

LCD bigger bang for buck and no color separation(rainbows) when swinging the club

If you're seeing rainbows while swinging the club you're not keeping your head down and on the ball. This is a big no-no.

$300 HDMI cables? P.T. Barnum would have been proud.
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post #21 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jscopus View Post

Actually, it plays much faster than a regular round as you don't have to walk/ride to your ball. Sort of watching TV with no commercials? I will be down at San Diego to look at the units but they come with glowing recommendations. They are about the only system that was built from the ground up, not retroadapting missle technology or other concepts. It was designed to track a golf ball and the people in the industry I have spoken to say it does a remarkably good job. There are many other units out there, most more reasonably priced. I am not looking at it so much as a business, as I would suspect you would need more units if it was your livelihood. But I have a day job, and a family that loves golf. Am a pretty decent player and have a 15 yo that I think can become a strong, collegiate player. We also have a small commercial building that we could put it in. My goal, pay a healthy rent, pay my son to work their, practice/play a lot myself, and cover the costs of the units. They do have recommended guidelines that will be sent to me. Locally a place in our area charges about 55/hour. I am not sure how that compares with what they recommend. I have a laundry list of marketing ideas and my wife is truly a marketing genius of national preportions. Unfortunately, she has not gotten behind the project yet. So I can't answer many of your questions, but you can read the info on the web site.
Jeff Hartford MD

I find it intriguing that any serious golfer would opt for playing a round of golf in front of a projection screen rather than just watching CBS HD golf on it. It's like playing mini-golf with family and friends, just some fun time together not real golf though.

With the lie(roughes), the angle of the ground and its firmness and wind etc being such big parts of playing golf how does the simulator mimick those conditions? And how about putting greens and its subtle breaks and reading those breaks? I think without these variables and therefore challanges you are going to miss 90% of the game.
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post #22 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

I find it intriguing that any serious golfer would opt for playing a round of golf in front of a projection screen rather than just watching CBS HD golf on it. It's like playing mini-golf with family and friends, just some fun time together not real golf though.

With the lie(roughes), the angle of the ground and its firmness and wind etc being such big parts of playing golf how does the simulator mimick those conditions? And how about putting greens and its subtle breaks and reading those breaks? I think without these variables and therefore challanges you are going to miss 90% of the game.

I find that the main advantage is being able to groove your swing, and to work on new things without all those variable affecting your pure swing.
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post #23 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 06:01 PM
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well for that purpose a $500 LED based simulator package for measuring your golf swing parameters should do just fine.
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post #24 of 46 Old 02-26-2007, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

well for that purpose a $500 LED based simulator package for measuring your golf swing parameters should do just fine.

Actually, I built my simulator for a total of about $2000. That included converting half the garage from an 8.5' ceiling to a 12' ceiling to house the cage (material costs $150, I did all the work myself so labor costs were not a factor). My hardware consists of a p3proswing bought used for $500 (which I converted to a turf surface to eliminate having to hit off the nasty rubber (extra cost of $100 in trial and error)), a 10'x10'x10' cage ($250), a screen (which I made by adhering white marine vinyl I purchased at Joanne's on clearance for $10 to a 1000 denier cordura camoflauge tarp I purchased from northern toolsfor $30), a platform I built for about $70, 10'x12' green outdoor Carpet purchase from Menard's for $125, a hitachi cpx340 purchased new for $600, and a laptop I purchased used for $240.

Not quite the cost of the Full Swing, which I happen to drool over anytime I hear about it, but it definately suits me needs. And, since living in Indiana only allows me to golf about 7.5 months a year, it fulfills my needs for the other 4.5 months. Is it the same as going out and playing a round of golf? Not even close, but it you have kids (like the OP and myself) it provides a great opportunity to teach them the proper swing mechanics without having to be rushed out on the course. Plus, it doubles as an area to have the guys over to watch boxing matches and football games and you don't have to worry about spilling a little beer or ash on the ground (provided it does not spill on the p3proswing, which I usually move during these occasions) .
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post #25 of 46 Old 02-27-2007, 05:03 AM
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Bluesboyjr,

Can we get some pics of your setup? I might need to build something like this at our warehouse.
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post #26 of 46 Old 02-27-2007, 05:24 AM
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Hey I have played a whole bunch of golf simulators and the best one and most realistic is HDgolf.

www.istgolf.com
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post #27 of 46 Old 02-27-2007, 07:43 AM
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Have you compared this system to the fullswing system? If so what are the pros/cons of each?

jcg

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Hey I have played a whole bunch of golf simulators and the best one and most realistic is HDgolf.

www.istgolf.com

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post #28 of 46 Old 02-27-2007, 09:15 AM
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I have compared all the of the systems.

Cons to fullswing are screens don't last that long, they require you to build a subfloor to install the photo diode arrays. also they have 2 points of contact(from the photo diode strips) and simulate the balls backspin.(which doesn't look right)
Also they use old technology with mslinks golf which is not bad but doesn't look that that great.

High Definition golf uses special camera to watch the ball over the whole trajectory. (sorry going into golf lingo) also it has which no other system has is the club path module which detects how your club hits the ball. did you hit it on the toe or on the heal, was your club face opened of closed.
the screen is very durable. I have visited a nevada bobs and they haven't had to replace the screen yet with there system. Also they Use real pictures from the actual golf course. Also I believe the projector they are using is 3500 lumens. the image really pops at you.
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post #29 of 46 Old 02-27-2007, 12:52 PM
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If I were you I would make the system portable so that you can transport it to events (fairs, conventions, etc.). Think BRIGHT on the projector, especially if you do go portable because you will not always have control over light levels.

A few years ago at CES Daiwoo (sp?) had a simulator in their booth and were giving away prizes for the closest to the hole shots. I, somehow, ended up about 3' from the hole on one of the sessions (they had a morning contest and an afternoon contest each day) and won the main prize of three for each session. My 27" Daiwoo television arrived at my door a few days after I returned from the show. Of course, Daiwoo has since gotten out of the television business (at least in the US).
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post #30 of 46 Old 02-27-2007, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffleonard View Post

Bluesboyjr,

Can we get some pics of your setup? I might need to build something like this at our warehouse.

No problem, Jeff. I will get some pics for you this weekend.
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