JVC DLA-RS1 Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 06:29 PM
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I know I posted my impressions last night but I just wanted to contribute a little more. Today I checked out various discs to focus more on low APL scenes and I was floored with how good they look. Checked out the beginning of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith and the battle sequence in space was just pure eye candy. It was awesome to see how bright the explosions were and the lights of the ships whenever they popped into the scene. IMO that is where the focus should be on this PJ rather than just "how black" the black level is on fade to blacks. Yeah I understand the correlation between the two but this thing could easily have a darker black level but less "pop" in those scenes with bright objects being darker. To me this is the key of the high CR and it is what impresses me the most rather than seeing the CR figure and worrying/wondeirng how deep the black level is based on it. Maybe I am just talking out of my ass but it's how I feel.

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post #272 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:24 PM
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I better chime in with my review as well. Just took down the BenQ 8720 and put up the RS1. In a word... WOW!

First off, I do have a bit of corner brightness, but as has been mentioned earlier, you only see it during a total fade to black and then it takes a few seconds for your eyes to adjust to actually see it. The only time I visibly saw it was during calibration test patterns. My convergence is very good with only red pushing out a half pixel or so towards either end of the screen. And that's is for the "bad" stuff about my RS1. Now on to the good stuff. Oh, before I get started...

Mounting: If your going to use a UNIVERSAL ceiling mount you'll need M5 screws as the RS1 feet are secured with M5 threads. The threads do not start near the surface of the projector, they are about a half inch or so into the case. I found M5 x 30mm cap head screws to be perfect for attaching the ceiling mount. 20mm were a bit too short as they were only catching by a few threads. The Chief mounts should come with the proper length screws, this info is for universal mounts. Now, on to the review.

The RS1 produces one of the best pictures I have ever seen in HT period. And I have seen a bunch. Other projectors have some things they do very well and some things they don't. With the RS1, I am seeing the complete package. Good brightness and colors at all APL's. I personally think the high APL interscene contrast bashing has gone a bit overboard, as my RS1 looks every bit as 3D during these scenes as my 8720 does. The RS1 handles low APL material better than anything I have seen. Low APL material looks absolutely "real", reach out and touch it real, as a matter of fact most of the mid and high APL scenes do as well. Colors, fleshtones, all perfect. I don't have a Sharp 20K to compare with for sharpness, but I think the RS1 is razor sharp. Getting a good focus and convergence is the key. I saw details in both HD DVD and Blu-ray I had never seen before. All the movies I demoed looked like totally new movies to me. I realize I'm gushing a bit here, but this projector really is a cut above, and at it's current price, it's a steal for the picture quality you receive.

BTW, I have a dedicated "bat cave" theater, PS3 and HD-A1 shooting on a Carada BW 118" screen from 17ft. The Carada BW material seems to be a perfect match for the RS1. The projector is set to "Normal" and "Middle", I only had to add one click of brightness with GetGrey, all the other settings were perfect out of the box. I will bust out the colorimeter and ColorHCFR later in the week and run a greyscale check, but from eyeballing it, it appears dead on.

A special thanks to fellow forum member and good friend JDEATON. John came over to help out with the RS1 and we had a ball. John was equally blown away by the RS1 as well, maybe he'll chime in with his thoughts.

Adam
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post #273 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:38 PM
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Great Adam, thanks. Boy it looks like lots of happy JVC owners.

BTW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gutierrez View Post


BTW, I have a dedicated "bat cave" theater, PS3 and HD-A1 shooting on a Carada BW 118" screen from 17ft. The Carada BW material seems to be a perfect match for the RS1.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I have a feeling that I'll end up with the JVC and a Carada BW screen. Although, I'm considering a 105" wide 2:35:1 screen for a constant image height set-up. If I've done my math right, that would equal the same screen area as a 103" or 104" diagonal 16:9 screen. Since you have a much larger 118" Carada BW screen (I'm assuming 16:9?) and seem happy with the brightness...it sounds like I shouldn't have any problems with a dim image from the JVC on a screen the size I'm looking at.

Thanks.
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post #274 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:47 PM
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It's now dark here, which means I'm going to be up all night tweaking this baby. I'll be posting my full review soon enough, but here are my initial impressions: WOW WOW WOW.

On paper, I was worried that it wouldn't be bright enough, but it's plenty bright in normal mode on my 123" Firehawk G2 (avg 1.0 gain). I'll measure it later, but to my eye it looks at least 16 fL.

Near perfect convergence out of the box (red is a half pixel off vertically).
HD material has never looked better.

I had a Pearl prior to this, and there is no contest. It handily beats the Samsung H710AE, which I loved, and the Sim C3X (which I almost bought).

Paired with the Toshiba HD-XA2, the few SD DVDs I've popped in look incredible.

No bright corners, yet.
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post #275 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Great stuff, Rob, Adam and Fugueness. Gushing is good!

Adam, glad to see how much of an improvement you think the RS1 is over the BenQ 8720 dlp. That pj puts out a pretty darn good picture in its own right. I should be quite happy as I am upgrading from a 720p DLP with HD2 chip (not even the "+").
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post #276 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:02 PM
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Rob, you'll be blown away.... Except for those damn bright corners and the crappy high APL interscene contrast!!!! J/K

Adam
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post #277 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:05 PM
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Yeah, sorry, forgot to mention that my aspect ratio is 16:9. The RS1 puts out plenty of light for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Great Adam, thanks. Boy it looks like lots of happy JVC owners.

BTW...



I'm glad you mentioned that. I have a feeling that I'll end up with the JVC and a Carada BW screen. Although, I'm considering a 105" wide 2:35:1 screen for a constant image height set-up. If I've done my math right, that would equal the same screen area as a 103" or 104" diagonal 16:9 screen. Since you have a much larger 118" Carada BW screen (I'm assuming 16:9?) and seem happy with the brightness...it sounds like I shouldn't have any problems with a dim image from the JVC on a screen the size I'm looking at.

Thanks.


Adam
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post #278 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:08 PM
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Oooh... before I forget. My HD1 is not black. Under bright light is a very very dark metallic blue! Looks black in normal room light but it's not. Anyone else notice this? Did I get a custom paint job for free?? errr... 5 Large?

Adam
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post #279 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gutierrez View Post

Rob, you'll be blown away.... Except for those damn bright corners and the crappy high APL interscene contrast!!!! J/K




I deserved that (given my many posts about concerns of "crappy high APL interscene contrast")!
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post #280 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:34 PM
 
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Does the JVC DLA-RS1 do vertical stretch???...I need to know this. Thank you.
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post #281 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

Does the JVC DLA-RS1 do vertical stretch???...I need to know this. Thank you.

No.

Since this question is still asked so often, and since people continually ask if it will be implemented in the future, I am going to add this to the first post in the thread.
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post #282 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

Does the JVC DLA-RS1 do vertical stretch???...I need to know this. Thank you.

Not at present, if ever. You will need an external scaling device for CIH.

Adam
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post #283 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 09:04 PM
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Quote:


I was worried about the color. Absolutely dead on using the Lumagen test patterns and isolated primaries looking at SMPTE bars...and not a single scene in any movie looked over-saturated, even some fiesty ones like Apollo 13. They just looked right/accurate/faithful.

Cam Man:
I believe that these test patterns only show the relative intensity of the primaries, not their saturation or hue. The CIE charts published here and here would indicate that the color accuracy is not as good as you suggest.

References
http://www.hdplustv.de/hdtv/hd_capsel_135929.html
http://www.cine4home.com/Specials/JV...PreviewTwo.htm

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post #284 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

I had a Pearl prior to this, and there is no contest. It handily beats the Samsung H710AE, which I loved, and the Sim C3X (which I almost bought).

fugueness,

I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say with regards to the color accuracy of the RS1. I know that is what you loved so much about the Samsung and why you were so disappointed with the Pearl.
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post #285 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

I think there has already been some superb comparisons made about these projectors on the forum (including Free's above). Hopefully by the time my review is printed there will still be something unique left to say. I expect my review to published near the end of next week, but by then just about everyone on the forum will already have one.

Will definitely look forward to your review, especially your detailed analysis and impression of issues, like the bright corner and lack of CMS...

so much to read here but I think there has been no mention yet of whether the horizontal or vertical shift will soften the image when in use.
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post #286 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Cam Man:
I believe that these test patterns only show the relative intensity of the primaries, not their saturation or hue. The CIE charts published here and here would indicate that the color accuracy is not as good as you suggest.

References
http://www.hdplustv.de/hdtv/hd_capsel_135929.html
http://www.cine4home.com/Specials/JV...PreviewTwo.htm

There seems to be fewer and fewer displays that have the correct color space, and even fewer that have an option to accurately display Rec 601 and Rec 709. The use of the SMPTE color bars is used for setting Saturation, Tint, and for color decoding. If all of these are right, the picture will look the best it can, even with non-spec color space.

There are two uses of the word "Saturation" one deals with the level or intensity of any given color and the other is used in reference to the x,y coordinates not being at a given specification.

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post #287 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

fugueness,

I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say with regards to the color accuracy of the RS1. I know that is what you loved so much about the Samsung and why you were so disappointed with the Pearl.

what a wacky world we live in.
Quote:


The image itself is very natural, a key strength, which reminds me of the Samsung SP-H710AE. By comparison, most other 1080p projectors seem initially to have more wow factor, but after watching the Sony for a while, my own adjusted BenQ PE-8720, for example, seems to be oversaturated, more contrasty, overall, less real or natural than the Sony

http://www.projectorreviews.com/sony...earl/index.asp
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post #288 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

what a wacky world we live in.

For your perusal:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767155
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post #289 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

There seems to be fewer and fewer displays that have the correct color space, and even fewer that have an option to accurately display Rec 601 and Rec 709. The use of the SMPTE color bars is used for setting Saturation, Tint, and for color decoding. If all of these are right, the picture will look the best it can, even with non-spec color space.

There are two uses of the word "Saturation" one deals with the level or intensity of any given color and the other is used in reference to the x,y coordinates not being at a given specification.

Good points Glen.
I think for me the 2 issues that people are pointing out such as bright corners and CMS come with a price. Are inky black corners or CMS worth the extra $6K in the case of the Sharp? In my case, no.
For me and this projector it's what I'm getting at this particular price point. I've been a big Sim fan ever since I got into this silly hobby. But I looked the RS1 and what I was getting and saw that to get something like the Sim HT3000 it was going to cost me $10K more. Now stop and think what you can get for that price difference. A new 2.35 screen , maybe an anamorphic lens, a vp, and still have some money left over for additional upgrades. Sounds like a deal to me. I have a feeling that most of the people on the pre-buy feel the same way as I do.
So after I get my RS1 on Thursday I hope to enjoy many, many hours in my bat cave with my perfect projector, because that's what it's all about.

Keith S.
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post #290 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

fugueness,

I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say with regards to the color accuracy of the RS1. I know that is what you loved so much about the Samsung and why you were so disappointed with the Pearl.

The color is pretty darn good. It matches the Samsung's color performance as far as I'm concerned, and surpasses it in all other aspects. I ran through a few of my photographs to check the color and they were just about spot-on. Compared to the Pearl, no contest!

Screenshots cannot do this projector justice (even with my completely calibrated workflow), but here are some anyway. These were taken on a 5D + 85 1.2L.







I just saw 300 in the theater, and the picture coming out of the RS1 was a close match in terms of color. (The look of this film was designed to be on the saturated side.)







I ran just about every space scene I could think of through the RS1 and the results were spectacular: dark, inky blacks. As I was cropping the screenshots, it was nearly impossible to discern the black bars. Who needs matting now?

I tried to replicate this bright corner issue that some are having, and I must have gotten lucky because mine does not exhibit this behavior. The convergence is slightly off (1/2 pixel) but that's not going to bother me viewing at 15 feet.

Overall, I am really stoked; I can't wait to rewatch a bunch of my favorite films because everything I have fed through the RS1 so far has taken on new life. The RS1 is very revealing with its sources, especially paired with the XA2.
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post #291 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

what a wacky world we live in.

It's a dynamic world.
It's extremely difficult to know the intended color for each film. Most of us don't know the source material. The Fifth Element was designed to be saturated; it's one of the most colorful films out there. I saw it six times in various theaters, the color varied from print to print, sometimes reel to reel. I worked on the Matrix films; they have terrible color, but that was fully intended by the filmmakers. There is so much subjective leeway in most scenes.
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post #292 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gutierrez View Post

Yeah, sorry, forgot to mention that my aspect ratio is 16:9. The RS1 puts out plenty of light for me...

Hi Adam,

Can you confirm that this RS1 also *BRIGHT* enough for Carada BW 134" screen in my vampire-cave? Need bright, bright and bright picture!

Thanks
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post #293 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 12:13 AM
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Fugueness,

Those screenshots are jaw dropping! Having that quality and sharpness on a 120" screen is amazing.

Are those 5th Element Shots on BD? Mila's skin tones look absolutely terrific.

That's also an incredible level of shadow detail in Batman Begins.

Thanks for those seemingly better than professional caliber screen shots.

Incidentally, how do you have 300 at home already?

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After 7 Years With a JVC RS1 - Starting to Get the Upgrade Itch
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post #294 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 12:40 AM
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Cam Man:I believe that these test patterns only show the relative intensity of the primaries, not their saturation or hue. The CIE charts published here and here would indicate that the color accuracy is not as good as you suggest.

Tom,
Correct. I did a full up calibration with the CA-6X tonight. The x-y of primaries are off a bit, particularly green (which may be the bug Greg found), Red is almost perfect, blue is off just a little. Modest tweaks were made to User 1 color temp, and this put the pj very close to D65. I polished it off on the Lumagen, and also achieved a very smooth 2.2 gamma curve. Despite the primaries lack of accuracy, I look at all this like I do from behind the camera. It is not all engineering; there is an interpretive level. I'll be happy to have those primaries be off a bit if the pj can otherwise deliver such a gorgeous picture in which colors have yet to look wrong. By the book they may be off a bit, but one has to have perspective about this. It's picture (certainly when calibrated as well as possible) is bloody gorgeous regardless of where those primaries are. Look at different film stocks. Even within a manufacturer's pallette, stocks can look very different. Kodak stocks and Fuji stocks have very different primaries in their interpretation of color. One might be chosen for this and that reason, and some might very much dislike one or another, but as a viewer of the film, I can accept that Fuji is going to make the green grass really pop, and enjoy the beauty just the same.

There is great merit in getting the firmware fix for Greg's problem, and to encourage manufacturers to keep working towards perfection, but there is little reason to let something like these indiocyncracies that don't seem to be detrimental get in the way of enjoying the projector's gorgeous images.

As a post script, I should add that all my work and observastions for the calibration were done projecting on an SmX screen. The bit of gain is has is a big help, too.
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post #295 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Fugueness,

Those screenshots are jaw dropping! Having that quality and sharpness on a 120" screen is amazing.

Are those 5th Element Shots on BD? Mila's skin tones look absolutely terrific.

That's also an incredible level of shadow detail in Batman Begins.

Thanks for those seemingly better than professional caliber screen shots.

Incidentally, how do you have 300 at home already?

Imagine seeing the screenshots in their full 13 megapixel resolution!
Yes, the 5th Element Shots are from the BD. In the full resolution screenshot, you can actually see her pores and she's got a small pimple that is not so well-concealed.
Those 300 shots were taken from the 1080p trailer downloaded from the Sony Playstation Store. It looks gorgeous.
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post #296 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Cam Man:
I believe that these test patterns only show the relative intensity of the primaries, not their saturation or hue. The CIE charts published here and here would indicate that the color accuracy is not as good as you suggest.

References
http://www.hdplustv.de/hdtv/hd_capsel_135929.html
http://www.cine4home.com/Specials/JV...PreviewTwo.htm


Ok Tom......yes, the Sharp has the extremely effective and wonderful CMS system, and perfectly accurate colors via the CMS system have tremendous value, and no, the JVC does not have a CMS system....we get it....really.

Must you enter all of these threads and harp on the color deficiencies of these other pj's? Or should I go over to the Sharp owner's thread and begin posting about rainbows, lackluster light output in high contrast mode, or other such things that would provide no productive service to the persons reading that thread?

You're a fanboy for your projector...no shame in that. I'm a fanboy for the RS1. The only problem is that we're both doing it in the RS1 threads....

And HoustonHoyaFan, I'm not even going to mount my typical RS1 fanclown defense system against you...I truly believe you just enjoy stiring the pot, whatever thread it may be...

Disclaimer: Totally biased RS1 fanclown...cannot be relied upon for any type of objectivity regarding same. You have been warned.
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post #297 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

The color is pretty darn good. It matches the Samsung's color performance as far as I'm concerned, and surpasses it in all other aspects. I ran through a few of my photographs to check the color and they were just about spot-on. Compared to the Pearl, no contest!

RS1 picture:

Update: Link to RS1 picture was removed with NO explanation given.

Picture from the Projector Review Pearl review:


I strongly prefer the neutrality of the RS1 skin tones (though it is a bit yellow here). The Pearl's color is sour and unnatural to me. The Pearls rendition of Leeloo's hair is simply over-the-top. This oversaturation distortion proves Tom Huffman's recent crusade to be so true

Look into the eyes of the top picture. The fidelity is superior. This clarity only possible with 1:1 pixel mapping. (My new Sharp brand 52" LCD flat panel has this 1920*1080@60Hz mapping too!).
Look at the shadows under Leeloo lip and mouth. The Pearl is more contrasty and pasty. Its inferior contrast makes it difficult to distinguish the shadow from the lip! The superiority of the JVC RS1 15K STATIC contrast ratio is apparent. Because of this type of evidence I will probably buy the RS1 in a few months (in spite the recent shilling by the RS1 competitors).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Note to Houston: I just bought the PS3 - now that makes you feel good
But it froze up playing two different Blu-ray discs. I returned it for another one and then wisely bought the extended warranty for a $100 bucks (as we know just how good Sony quality control is).
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post #298 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 04:06 AM
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How about the increased detail on the wall to the right of her face (left of picture) on
the RS1. The brightness on the wall on the opposite side seems about the same.
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post #299 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

Kraig,

When we discussed "upgrading" from a Ruby to the RS-1 last night, all were in agreement that they would only consider upgrading if they had less than $7k into the Ruby, which none had. We all know how much subjectivity enters into our individual viewing experiences. Both PJ's provide an excellent picture at these price points (and above). The issue of Ruby brightness (versus the RS-1) was really the only major difference we noted (of course that affects several aspects of the PQ).

Jim


Jim,

Thanks. Very helpful comments.

-kraig
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post #300 of 8755 Old 03-07-2007, 06:19 AM
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I should be in the second wave of preorders, i think I just missed the cutoff. I have been obsessed with this projector for 4 months now. I mean OBSESSED. We have had our apartment on the market for about a year now, and just last week we accepted an offer and are signing the contract today. Which means that we will be moving at the end of May. The problem is that we don't know where yet. We will be renting an apartment until we find the right Brownstone to buy. One of the conditions of the Brownstone will be a mediaroom for a projector, but i have no idea whether the apartment we will rent will allow for an installation. So my options are: 1. Buy the RS1 and enjoy it here for the next couple of months with the possibility that I won't be able to use it for the following year. 2. Buy it and then sell it in June. Do you think i will be able to get close to the Pre-order price in two months? 3. Pass on the pre-buy and buy a rear projection unit to hold me over in the new place until we buy a house. By then the RS2 might be out.
I think it might actually kill me to pass on it now. I have invested so much energy in this thing. I have been putting off watching most of my HD DVDs in anticipation of it. Any advice?

Thanks,
jason
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