JVC DLA-RS1 Owner's Thread - Page 145 - AVS Forum
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post #4321 of 8755 Old 09-22-2007, 07:53 AM
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When you pass the HD1/RS1 a 1080p/24 signal, it first of all frame rate doubles it to 48Hz, but then displays it at 96Hz. The panels themselves always double what they are fed as far as I know, so 60Hz material is effectively displayed at 120Hz.

I don't know the reason for double the frame rate in two different ways as it gets processed through the projector, but the end result is what you wanted to hear!
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post #4322 of 8755 Old 09-22-2007, 08:11 AM
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Can anyone provide some details on the horizontal shift? Would really appreciate it.

First if you are level with bottom of the screen, how far horizontal can you move it?
Second, if you are near middle of screen, how far horizontal can you move it?

For purposes of this example, let's say it's a 90 inch wide screen.

Are there any tradeoffs in either of the two above if you move it horizontal say 20 or 25 inches?

Thanks so much!

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post #4323 of 8755 Old 09-22-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

I was wondering if anyone could give me any insight/thoughts about this:

The RS1 displays a 1080p24 signal at 48hz on the RS1. First question -- Why doesn't it display it at 96hz? If it already does, no need to continue reading. If not, what would happen if 1080p24 was output at 48hz via the hardware (blu-ray or hd dvd player)... would the RS1 display it at 96? If so, would this have a similar effect as the 120hz displays? If this is at all possible, are there any devices that can output 1080p24 at 48hz?

Doesn't it go like this: Feed it 24fps (nom.), RS1 shows 48Hz, but refreshes that two times for a 96Hz refresh? No interpolation going on, is there? Just a frame and three more "refreshes" of it?
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post #4324 of 8755 Old 09-22-2007, 12:42 PM
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The Gennum frame doubles 24fps to 48fps. All frame rates exiting the Gennum (48, 50, 60fps) are doubled for driving the D-ILA panels.

The reason: Light passes through each pixel in a LCoS panel twice, once on its way in and once on its way out. Hence the need to modulate twice for each frame leaving the Gennum. I believe this allows two "shots" at polarization which assists CR.

"Worth waiting for"
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post #4325 of 8755 Old 09-22-2007, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

I have a pretty dark room but I still don't see the need for an ND filter on the HD1. Its blacks are low enough.

My use of an ND2 is purely to reduce my foot lamberts.

"Worth waiting for"
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post #4326 of 8755 Old 09-22-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

The Gennum frame doubles 24fps to 48fps. All frame rates exiting the Gennum (48, 50, 60fps) are doubled for driving the D-ILA panels.

The reason: Light passes through each pixel in a LCoS panel twice, once on its way in and once on its way out.

I doubt that has anything to do with the reason for doubling the driving rate. For the sake of argument lets say the panel is 0.5 mm thick. Assuming that the speed of light within the liquid crystal is on the order of that in a vacuum (3*10^8 m/s), light could do almost 700 million round trips in the panel in a single 50 Hz period.

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post #4327 of 8755 Old 09-23-2007, 10:44 AM
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I'm building my first home theater and am trying to determine the best screen to purchase based on my home theater confirguration. Here's what I'm dealing with:
  • I'm planning to get an RS1 and pair it with a 100" 16X9 Fixed screen.
  • The room is only 11.5 feet wide so I won't have an issue with wide viewing angles.
  • The length of the room is 21 feet
  • The heighth of the room is 9 feet
  • I'm probably going to watch 60% sports and sitcom with 40% going to movies. Consequently, 60% of the time I'll have some ambient lighting.
I have 3 options regarding mounting location of the RS1 and the type of screen to get:

OPTION #1 - Pair the RS1 with a High Power Da-Lite screen - I can place the RS1 within 10 degrees of the center of the HP cone (1-2 feet above eye level)IF I place the projector at the back of my room. If placed at the back of the room, the distance from the lens to the screen would be about 20 feet which is at or close to the maximum recommended throw for the RS1. Given the RS1 is at max throw would it make sense to pair the RS1 with the HP? Am I sacrificing brightness too much by having the RS1 at the maximum screen to lens distance? I'm also concerned that the brightness would be fine at the beginning of the RS1's bulb life, but I'll be sacrificing much later when the bulb starts dimming.

OPTION #2 - Pair the RS1 with a Vutec Silver Star Screen - I can ceiling mount the RS1 at 14 feet from the screen, but would be outside of the recommended cone for an HP screen.

OPTION #3 - Pair the RS1 with a Firehawk G3 - Same configuration as OPTION #2, but will the Firehawk G3 do better than SS with ambient lighting?

Which option does everyone recommend I go with? Why?

Thanks in advance...all of your advice has been invaluable as I build my theater.
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post #4328 of 8755 Old 09-23-2007, 11:25 AM
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I can give you some feedback on option 1.

I have a HP, and the 16x9 width is exactly 100" (same as yours).

I have my RS1 at max throw, which is something close to 24 feet. With a new bulb, it is bright enough, but after 350 hours it's a little on the dim side (but not too bad - I'm still getting 12 footlamberts).

Now, the throw distance makes a huge difference. I used to have it at 18 feet and it was too bright (had to use filters), so you might be OK with 20 feet. Here's an idea: my room is 26 feet long (exceeds max throw) so I moved my screen forward by building a 2x4 frame on the wall (doubling up the 2x4's for desired thickness). You could easily shave off 6" - 12" by doing this.

As for HP cone: none issue in your case. I have a 14' wide room and only as I leave the room (via a side door) do I see it drop off in brightness. I have projector mounted 2 feet above head and at max throw this doesn't make any difference - I can sit or stand and there is virtually NO difference in brightness.

I can leave lights on and watch TV if I want. When I watch movies it's a bat cave.

Hope this helps.
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post #4329 of 8755 Old 09-23-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin R. Anderson View Post

I think the concept with filters is that you can increase contrast ratio at the cost of lumens.

As Tom mentioned this isn't true with ND filters, but it can be true with color filters. If a projector is deficient in one color, it is possible to add a color filter, recalibrate for a D65 white level and end up with a higher on/off contrast ratio usually at the expense of some lumens.
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post #4330 of 8755 Old 09-23-2007, 07:52 PM
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Sifford,

I have the HP at 116" wide (133" diagonal) at a fairly short throw of 14.5" ft. My bulb has 800 hours on it and the image is quite bright with superior blacks than when the bulb was <200 hours old. The brighter corners can still be seen but fade to blacks are more satisfying. Intrascene CR subjectively is much more satisfying to me now than when the bulb was young.

You may need a ND filter to deal with the brightness with a young bulb especially but otherwise the HP seems like a very cost efficient way of ensuring your image will always be bright. And, as you point out, with your setup you won't have to worry about peripheral viewers seeing a dimmer image. The HP does a pretty good job suppressing ambient light as long as it does not emanate from the viewer position.

With the HP and my RS1 I see a bit of texture in the image, like the silk screen effect seen on RPTVs but subtler. I don't know if it is purely a brightness issue or some kind of interplay of the LCoS technology with the retroflective screen. I understand there is much more sheen with the Vutec.

Dan
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post #4331 of 8755 Old 09-24-2007, 01:05 PM
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Can anyone point out a 'how to' or guide for doing pixel alignment? Thanks in advance.

-----------------
Thanks
HDBill58

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post #4332 of 8755 Old 09-24-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDBill58 View Post

Can anyone point out a 'how to' or guide for doing pixel alignment? Thanks in advance.

From my sitting position I use my binoculars to get the best alignment. (The manual gives you the mechanics of getting to the menu, etc.)
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post #4333 of 8755 Old 09-24-2007, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDBill58 View Post

Can anyone point out a 'how to' or guide for doing pixel alignment? Thanks in advance.

Tom Stites and Greg Rogers both provided some good information on this quite awhile ago. Rather than dig through the threads and try to find it I'll just try and paraphrase what they said:

Using a crosshatch or similar test pattern, adjust either the vertical or horizontal alignment first while keeping the other fixed (let's assume vertical first).
1) Deliberately misconverge R,G and B so that you can see each colors vertical line without interference from the others.
2) Adjust the focus to determine which color has the worst focus (the line is thicker than the others). With the RS-1 the blue is usually very thin and the red and green are usually the problem colors to focus.
3) Adjust the focus on the worst color to achieve the best focus (ie minimize the thickness of the line with color that usually has the thickest line).
4) Once the focus has been optimized, use the pixel shift to re-align the 3 colors.
5) Determine if one color is off by more than 1/2 pixel after alignment. If it is shift it by 1 pixel using the pixel adjust so that better than 1/2 pixel is achieved.
6) Repeat for horizontal convergence although the focus step can probably be skipped.

A couple of notes:
- It's usually easier to use an external test pattern (DVE for example) rather than the internal ones inside of the RS-1
- A good way to double check the final convergence is by looking at the 3 color convergence test pattern in the service mode of the RS-1.
- Convergence will usually be better towards the center and worse towards the sides of the image. A person may need to decide if they can live with worse focus and/or alignment in the center in exchange for better focus and convergence on the sides.
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post #4334 of 8755 Old 09-24-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

Tom Stites and Greg Rogers both provided some good information on this quite awhile ago. Rather than dig through the threads and try to find it I'll just try and paraphrase what they said:

Using a crosshatch or similar test pattern, adjust either the vertical or horizontal alignment first while keeping the other fixed (let's assume vertical first).
1) Deliberately misconverge R,G and B so that you can see each colors vertical line without interference from the others.
2) Adjust the focus to determine which color has the worst focus (the line is thicker than the others). With the RS-1 the blue is usually very thin and the red and green are usually the problem colors to focus.
3) Adjust the focus on the worst color to achieve the best focus (ie minimize the thickness of the line with color that usually has the thickest line).
4) Once the focus has been optimized, use the pixel shift to re-align the 3 colors.
5) Determine if one color is off by more than 1/2 pixel after alignment. If it is shift it by 1 pixel using the pixel adjust so that better than 1/2 pixel is achieved.
6) Repeat for horizontal convergence although the focus step can probably be skipped.

A couple of notes:
- It's usually easier to use an external test pattern (DVE for example) rather than the internal ones inside of the RS-1
- A good way to double check the final convergence is by looking at the 3 color convergence test pattern in the service mode of the RS-1.
- Convergence will usually be better towards the center and worse towards the sides of the image. A person may need to decide if they can live with worse focus and/or alignment in the center in exchange for better focus and convergence on the sides.

Thanks!
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post #4335 of 8755 Old 09-25-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Thanks!

One other note. Good convergence is really a process of optimizing both the focus and adjustment settings. If one color bleeds through more than others it might be possible to intentionally defocus some of the other colors to reduce color bleeding.
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post #4336 of 8755 Old 09-25-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

As Tom mentioned this isn't true with ND filters, but it can be true with color filters. If a projector is deficient in one color, it is possible to add a color filter, recalibrate for a D65 white level and end up with a higher on/off contrast ratio usually at the expense of some lumens.

I think the term "contrast ratio" and "black level" are sometimes mistakingly used interchangeably. Your darkest dark will be even darker (closer to black) with an ND filter, but it does not change the native on/off contrast ratio.

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post #4337 of 8755 Old 09-26-2007, 09:28 AM
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Last week my RS1's lamp started shutting down after 20-30 minutes of use. The Lamp indicator was blinking and the On/Standby and Warning indicators were glowing red.

I could press the On/Standby button(or pull the power plug and reinsert it) and the projector would come on normally, but the symptoms reappeared about 15 minutes later. The problem was repeatable, every time. My lamp only had 150 hours on it.

The fan appeared to be running while the lamp was lit, and I doublechecked the mounting screws to make sure they weren't protruding too far into the case.

I called JVC and they suspected the lamp was the problem. Even though my projector purchase was almost 5 months ago, JVC sent me a replacement lamp under warranty. They sent it 2nd day Air via UPS.

The bulb arrived Monday and I'm happy to say it seems to have cured the problem. I've watched 2+ hour movies both Mon and Tues night and no problems.

My thanks to JVC for their prompt service and consideration for the customer.

Ron

BTW, resetting the lamp timer is a bit tricky. You have to hit the remote's "exit"-> "Enter"->"hide"->"down arrow" sequence very fast. As in two-handed fast!
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post #4338 of 8755 Old 09-26-2007, 10:04 AM
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Great to hear JVC takes care of their customers!
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post #4339 of 8755 Old 09-26-2007, 10:26 AM
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Finally experienced my first judder from loud subwoofers...

Ive seen its been reported here and people tend to think its the ceiling, etc. I saw it for the first time watching Deja Vu and it also moved the image up.

I wonder if its its moving the mount or somehow moving the lens shift????
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post #4340 of 8755 Old 09-26-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Finally experienced my first judder from loud subwoofers...

Ive seen its been reported here and people tend to think its the ceiling, etc. I saw it for the first time watching Deja Vu and it also moved the image up.

I wonder if its its moving the mount or somehow moving the lens shift????

I've seen some posts here that indicate the lens itself was vibrating - fixable by stuffing some foam between it and the cowling - while others had a flexing ceiling. I was just at a friend's theater with a wildly flexing ceiling. Obviously, the flexing ceiling presents a completely different challenge.
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post #4341 of 8755 Old 09-27-2007, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonC View Post

Last week my RS1's lamp started shutting down after 20-30 minutes of use. The Lamp indicator was blinking and the On/Standby and Warning indicators were glowing red.

I could press the On/Standby button(or pull the power plug and reinsert it) and the projector would come on normally, but the symptoms reappeared about 15 minutes later. The problem was repeatable, every time. My lamp only had 150 hours on it.

I had exaclty the same problem, at 180 hours.
Projector continue to shut down every 15 minutes, changing the lamp completely solve the problem, but I was in PANIC before I have changed the lamp

bye
Emanuele
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post #4342 of 8755 Old 10-05-2007, 12:58 PM
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I'm thinking about getting this projector and pairing it with a VP50 Pro. Is there a native mode or some way to bypass the internal scaler of this unit? If so and if anyone is using this projector with an external scaler, what do you have your HDMI settings set to, standard or enhanced?
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post #4343 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 05:20 AM
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Twice now I have experienced sudden picture loss with my RS1. I am using an XA2 connected directly to the RS1 via HDMI. The RS1 has about 200 hours on it. The picture loss lasts about 3 seconds or so. The Screen just instantly goes black. The audio continues un-interrupted. Both times it happened approx. 1/2 way into a movie. No noises or any other indications. Just a quick picture loss of a few seconds, then it's back. No indication of an HDMI handshake problem, as I would think it would say "no signal" or "out of range". Happened on an HD-DVD and an SD-DVD. It happens so un-expected and is over so fast it's tough to check anything. The audio is going directly into my Denon. I think it's the RS1. Any one else experience this? Any thoughts from some learned owners/members?
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post #4344 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fretman View Post

Twice now I have experienced sudden picture loss with my RS1. I am using an XA2 connected directly to the RS1 via HDMI. The RS1 has about 200 hours on it. The picture loss lasts about 3 seconds or so. The Screen just instantly goes black. The audio continues un-interrupted. Both times it happened approx. 1/2 way into a movie. No noises or any other indications. Just a quick picture loss of a few seconds, then it's back. No indication of an HDMI handshake problem, as I would think it would say "no signal" or "out of range". Happened on an HD-DVD and an SD-DVD. It happens so un-expected and is over so fast it's tough to check anything. The audio is going directly into my Denon. I think it's the RS1. Any one else experience this? Any thoughts from some learned owners/members?

Mine does that, usually in the first few minutes of watching a source. I have a DVI/HDMI cable at 1080p from my Lumagen. Mine goes to a blue screen, sometimes I get the signal out of range message in the center, then the HDMI input message in the upper right corner and then the picture returns. Then many times in a minute or so the screen goes full blue for a few seconds with no messages...... I just figure it is HDMI 1080p related.

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post #4345 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

Mine does that, usually in the first few minutes of watching a source. I have a DVI/HDMI cable at 1080p from my Lumagen. Mine goes to a blue screen, sometimes I get the signal out of range message in the center, then the HDMI input message in the upper right corner and then the picture returns. Then many times in a minute or so the screen goes full blue for a few seconds with no messages...... I just figure it is HDMI 1080p related.

Thanks for responding.

What's troubling is I don't get any messages and the screen goes black, not blue. I have had HDMI handshake problems, this is different. It doesn't seem like an HDMI connection issue. It's like something in the RS1 is shutting off, then returning back to normal within a few seconds. As I said there's no accompanying video/audio abberations/distortions just before or after it happens, nothing. Like a light switch, off then on. It's like woah, what just happened? It's only happened twice but I'm concerned. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it until/if it gets more predictable. Intermittent problems suck! Better off when something just dies. I'm a Service Manager at a garage and I know how difficult intermittent problems can be to diagnose/fix. Any other thoughts?
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post #4346 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 11:02 AM
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Fretman,

Any chance someone's sitting on the remote or otherwise inadverantly hitting the "Hide" button, that gives a black screen.
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post #4347 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

Fretman,

Any chance someone's sitting on the remote or otherwise inadverantly hitting the "Hide" button, that gives a black screen.

Hmmm. I really don't think so but...we'll see. I'm about to check out the new
Troy HD Directors cut. I'll make sure the remote is left alone during the movie.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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post #4348 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 11:41 AM
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Question on the Enhanced vs. Standard HDMI output menu item. Was under the impression that the enhanced setting in the menu would produce the darker blacks but via HDMI from an Explorer 8300HD cable box outputting 1080i, 720p and 480p, it's in fact the opposite.

I've settled on the enhanced setting for calibration and viewing but find this oddly opposite of what one would expect.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

It's all just a game. I just play to win.
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post #4349 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

Mine does that, usually in the first few minutes of watching a source. I have a DVI/HDMI cable at 1080p from my Lumagen. Mine goes to a blue screen, sometimes I get the signal out of range message in the center, then the HDMI input message in the upper right corner and then the picture returns. Then many times in a minute or so the screen goes full blue for a few seconds with no messages...... I just figure it is HDMI 1080p related.

When I get this issue, it's more akin to what GlenC gets so I started bypassing the VP and it cut it down to something I can live with.....for now. I mentioned this awhile ago and I think someone commented that they thought it was the HDMI cable or something. I've had my RS--1 for about 3 months now and I don't think I have ever had it go completely black on me......except when turning it off, of course. I do agree though that there's something screwy going on with your RS-1. If it was the HDMI cable, I think the screen would go blue instead of black. Things that make you go hmmmmm.
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post #4350 of 8755 Old 10-06-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quick question, I have both an Elite Xbox 360 and PS3. The 360 has the HD-DVD add-on and when I power it up the Elite does the quick handshake with the projector and we're off. Skipping between movies, games, HD-DVDs, etc. doesn't cause the "blue screen" of the projector with "HDMI-1" showing up at any point.

Fast forward to the PS3. Good lord. Power on, and I get the initial handshake. No problems. I go from the dashboard, to loading a Blu Ray movie, handshake city (about 2-3 flashes of the screen). Skip the first trailer package. Blue screen, HDMI-2, finally a picture. Then the FBI logo comes on. Blue screen, HDMI-2, a few flashes, picture. Another flash for "We don't give a $hit what the directors say because we aren't liable" screen, and then one last flash for the movie. Is this normal? I'm wondering if this is a PS3 issue, or if this is indeed how the RS1 handles the PS3? It's very annoying, especially when the 360 is flawless.

Any thoughts? Am I missing something in the settings?

Thanks!
Chris Rein is offline  
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