JVC DLA-RS1 Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

Oh yeah one more thing...I plan to re-watch every hddvd/bluray that I peeped on my Z5 because it is that much a difference on this thing. All the extra detail I saw in Kong and MI3 was crazy, not to mention how much depth, richness and smoothness the image had.

It's funny you mention this because I watched some HD DVD material on my previous PJ and there were several that I just couldn't get into. They just didn't grab or hold my attention and I stuggled to sit through movies such as Superman Returns and Harry Potter GOF. I watched them again on the HD1 and it was a far more involving experience almost like watching a different movie IMO.

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post #182 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 12:38 AM
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Can anyone recommend a cheap pair of binocs to use as a focus tool? The ones I have are way too strong for such a short distance.

Thanks!

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post #183 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 01:36 AM
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Focus adjustments can be done fairly easy. I focus by adjust to the point where I can see that it's going **out** of focus and then adjust back to the other point where I can see it going **out** of focus again. I then re-adjust the focus ring in the middle of these two spots.

Dead on every time.

Due to the uniform sharpness and convergance this projector is a good candidate for a slight de-focus. An monocular could be very helpfull for this.
Standing on a kitchen ladder holding a monocular while adjusting a focus ring could be a winner on funniest home video's. Whatever you do, don't grab your projector on the way down.
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post #184 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Using a monocular is an old standard for projectionists.

Okay, I can't be as eloquent or verbose as Rob about my first hours with the RS1. Bloody f***ing amazing, gorgeous...as faithful to the film as any cinematographer could hope for. I am quite astonsihed. This is film black, not video black. Release prints are timed to have density that will render the reference picture for projector lamphouses that are going to generate 12 to 22 footlamberts (16 open gate). A dead black scene on film is not black. It's about like the black we see here. Stick a white basketball in the shot, and it becomes ink black. Video can make a black that is blacker, but if film is your reference, it is just not going to get much better that this. I was worried about the color. Absolutely dead on using the Lumagen test patterns and isolated primaries looking at SMPTE bars...and not a single scene in any movie looked over-saturated, even some fiesty ones like Apollo 13. They just looked right/accurate/faithful. It looks like the grayscale in my Lumagen needs a little touch up with this PJ, but not much, but I'll put up the analyzer later. You need to select the proper set-up for HD and SD (HDMI level). SD=Standard HD=Enhanced. Black crush very obvious on HD if standard is selected. Tons of detail, but just like looking at a film print. Particularly interesting is watching the focus pulling in Batman Begins. Anamorphic, therefore tough to keep what you want in focus. This is as good as watching in dailies to check how well the camera assistant did on focus. I can actually watch technical details like that about the photography as I would if I were working on the movie. I was watching on 120" CIH 2.35 screen at 13'. Great achievement. Enjoy it guys.

Wow thanks CamMan for your impressions. Could you let s know what settings you settled upon? Did you try it without the Lumagen? How was it?
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post #185 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wm View Post

I suspect that you won't actually have 600 lumens with a CC filter no mater how you adjust - there is some loss in the filter. I've done quite a few of these...

Unless this projector is very different from previous JVC UHP, a magenta filter is probably going to be a better choice to improve contrast. However, with the contrast this projector already has, it's going to take an expensive filter, glass with good AR coatings, and even then I'm not sure what the impact will be on intra-scene contrast.

William

Wm,

Since you checked in I'll ask. One of my reservations is the lack of "cailbratability" of this projector. As your test case for the H2K and my prior less than 1080p projector I have to swear by your expertise, so I have reservations considering the RS1.

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post #186 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Wm,

Since you checked in I'll ask. One of my reservations is the lack of "cailbratability" of this projector. As your test case for the H2K and my prior less than 1080p projector I have to swear by your expertise, so I have reservations considering the RS1.

Tim

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"Since you checked in I'll ask".... What is the question ?

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post #187 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 04:09 AM
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Rob, Thanks for the great impressions. You sound a lot like me in terms of not knowing or really caring about all the intricacies of intense tweaking. I just want to see a great picture. Sounds like you saw just that. Can't wait to get mine on Thursday!

Cam, thanks for your emotional impression also. Although shorter than Rob's, they clearly conveyed your love for the projector's picture quality. On your 2.35 screen are you using the zoom method or do you have an anamorphic lens? I'm thinking of building a 2.35 screen, but I would be using the zoom method until I can afford a scaler and good lens.

Thanks guys!
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post #188 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Tim

"Since you checked in I'll ask".... What is the question ?

Dazzer

I had the same question...
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post #189 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

It's funny you mention this because I watched some HD DVD material on my previous PJ and there were several that I just couldn't get into. They just didn't grab or hold my attention and I stuggled to sit through movies such as Superman Returns and Harry Potter GOF. I watched them again on the HD1 and it was a far more involving experience almost like watching a different movie IMO.

Dazzer

I saw all the raves about the Casino HD DVD and when I watched it on my Z5 I thought to myself "umm, this is pretty ncie but I don't see why there is all the hype"

Popped it in last night just to take a little peak and my goodness, I see why it got raved on. The colours just pop.


CamMan,

Thanks for your impressions and much appreciated on the commenting of more of the technical stuff (ie film black, the colour accuracy, etc) and I will set mine to enhanced and recalibrate it since you are saying that is what should be selected.

I agree about how nothing I saw looked over saturated. Well, some stuff on my cable box looked a bit oversaturated but that is issue the networks than the PJ. Nothing on dvd or hd-dvd looked "out there" in terms of saturation.

What gamma setting did you select? I was using normal last night but I may try the gamma "A" tonight.

ROB
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post #190 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Great job Rob!

I'm a little disappointed you weren't blown away by the black level. I would have thought that would have been one of the biggest areas of improvement. Can you tell us a little about the light conditions in your room? Is there any ambient light, light walls, etc.?

I covered every surface in my room with black velvet (except the floors - getting a dark carpet) and hid all of my equipment behind the couch. I'm hoping for some decent black levels.

The black level is the best I have seen but based on a lot of the hype I just got an unrealistic view of what it'd be since it is hard to read stuff and think of what things will look like based just on words. It is a def improvement over my Z5 as is the detail and depth in low APL scenes. Low APL scenes have close to the same "pop" as normal scenes now rather than have that washed out look. Make no mistake, I found it impressive.

My room has no ambient light issues and the walls are dark grey, ceiling dark grey and the carpet is dark green.

ROB
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post #191 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 05:17 AM
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Quote:


Cam, thanks for your emotional impression also. Although shorter than Rob's, they clearly conveyed your love for the projector's picture quality. On your 2.35 screen are you using the zoom method or do you have an anamorphic lens?

My pleasure, although at the late hour I was trying to convey maybe too much in a short post. No dis on Rob's commentary intended. I got a late start because, indeed, the wifey pounded me for starting this before 24.

I did take a look at the zoomed (spherical) 2.35 image, and used a lens. I didn't spend a lot of time comparing, but in quick on and off of the lens, I could see no easily perceivable difference in resolution. There was the 20% increase in brightness with the lens. I didn't try going without the Lumagen yet, but I want to do that for a look. I did allow the Gennum to do all the deinterlacing, as I have to re-cable to be able to send 1080p from the Lumagen. That said, I thought the Gennum did a fine job with 1080i from HD-DVD. One thing that is a little scary is that the Lumagen input memory I was on has grayscale calibration settings for another projector. I expected it to look wacky, but it didn't. But I could see on the gray ramp what I think is a little overall bias based on the other projector. Today I will go to a new memory and start from scratch. Otherwise, I made no changes yet to any picture settings of the RS1 except for reducing sharpness just a bit.

I don't see how anyone could be unhappy with the resolution if you use the zoom method for 2.35, but the brightness boost of using the lens could be important if you are going over 105" or so wide on the screen, unless you have a fair amount of gain.

BTW, I see what is being called "the bright corners." All I'll say is this is absolutely a non-issue, and let everybody figure out why as you progress in your set-ups of your RS1.
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post #192 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 05:35 AM
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Any comments from owners on the noise reduction ability of the video processor with HDTV sources?

Does the menu offer any fine tuning of NR?


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post #193 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

Any comments from owners on the noise reduction ability of the video processor with HDTV sources?

Does the menu offer any fine tuning of NR?

There is a DNR option in the menu. This offers a range from 0 to X with 0 being default. Haven't really looked at this in great detail but on max setting the image appeared "smoothed" but less detailed. I've set this to 0 for all my viewing so far including HD sat material.

Dazzer
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post #194 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

...
BTW, I see what is being called "the bright corners." All I'll say is this is absolutely a non-issue, and let everybody figure out why as you progress in your set-ups of your RS1.

Now I'm puzzled. Are you saying that there is something in the setup that resolves this less dark corner problem or us it just a non issue?


The why I figured out so far is that I don't need a bat cave to enjoy this image.

I'm thinking of some very faint backlighting on the back wall to the sides off the screen. Just some yellow or red leds shining across the plastered wall with a very faint glow just enough to fool me into perceiving that the image on the screen is really black.

That's just a $10 experiment.
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post #195 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

My pleasure, although at the late hour I was trying to convey maybe too much in a short post. No dis on Rob's commentary intended. I got a late start because, indeed, the wifey pounded me for starting this before 24.

I did take a look at the zoomed (spherical) 2.35 image, and used a lens. I didn't spend a lot of time comparing, but in quick on and off of the lens, I could see no easily perceivable difference in resolution. There was the 20% increase in brightness with the lens. I didn't try going without the Lumagen yet, but I want to do that for a look. I did allow the Gennum to do all the deinterlacing, as I have to re-cable to be able to send 1080p from the Lumagen. That said, I thought the Gennum did a fine job with 1080i from HD-DVD. One thing that is a little scary is that the Lumagen input memory I was on has grayscale calibration settings for another projector. I expected it to look wacky, but it didn't. But I could see on the gray ramp what I think is a little overall bias based on the other projector. Today I will go to a new memory and start from scratch. Otherwise, I made no changes yet to any picture settings of the RS1 except for reducing sharpness just a bit.

I don't see how anyone could be unhappy with the resolution if you use the zoom method for 2.35, but the brightness boost of using the lens could be important if you are going over 105" or so wide on the screen, unless you have a fair amount of gain.

BTW, I see what is being called "the bright corners." All I'll say is this is absolutely a non-issue, and let everybody figure out why as you progress in your set-ups of your RS1.

Thanks Cam!
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post #196 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 06:29 AM
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It is very encouraging to see such nice performance out of the box. That said, I think that significant improvements will be made once I get into a full calibration. Regarding the gamma settings, I will measure each curve and see what they render. I also expect some refinement of grayscale of which the Lumagen affords a ton.

BTW, white field uniformity of luminance and color (shading) look excellent.

Family was in awe as they came in to check out the progress from time to time. Had to chase out the kids because they became quickly engrossed in the movie and woud never have gotten to bed.

I saw another fellow mention supplies from distributors. I spoke with mine yesterday...and it is pretty much the same intel...that supply will slowly ramp up. I'll have two more in about two weeks, then two more around end of month.
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post #197 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

You need to select the proper set-up for HD and SD (HDMI level). SD=Standard HD=Enhanced. Black crush very obvious on HD if standard is selected.

Interesting that was the case. I wonder if this is the result of using your Lumangen. Does your Lumagen put out 0 IRE for black of use 7.5?

I could be mistaken here but believe that the "Normal" HDMI setting equates to 7.5 IRE and Enhanced is 0.

Don't most HD sources like STBs and HD DVD players default to video levels which use 7.5 IRE for black? In that case I'd expect Normal to be the main setting. However I think the lumangen uses PC levels and therefore you needed to use Enhanced to get the 0 IRE reference.

It sounds like for your setup you have it selected correctly. But for people without a VP it they may need the Normal HDMI mode. What do you guys think?
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post #198 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

BTW, white field uniformity of luminance and color (shading) look excellent.


Great! to hear

Thanks for the previous (short) review too!
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post #199 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:41 AM
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Quote:


Interesting that was the case. I wonder if this is the result of using your Lumangen. Does your Lumagen put out 0 IRE for black of use 7.5?

Good point. HD sources should be using 0 IRE for black. If so, and 7.5 IRE is selected, everything below it is crushed. Regardless, a pluge pattern is the answer to finding 0 IRE wherever it hides.
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post #200 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Good point. HD sources should be using 0 IRE for black.

I'm not so sure about that. IIRC my Comcast STB uses 7.5 IRE for black and also I have to double check by I believe the default setting on the Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player is to have its "Enhanced Black Level" feature set to OFF which equates to 7.5 IRE as well.

I agree that a Brightness test pattern will tell you which is the right setting.
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post #201 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 07:51 AM
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Quote:


I'm not so sure about that. IIRC my Comcast STB uses 7.5 IRE for black and also I have to double check by I believe the default setting on the Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player is to have its "Enhanced Black Level" feature set to OFF which equates to 7.5 IRE as well.

It seems strange that we can see 0 IRE if 7.5 IRE is set. How can that be? Maybe I'm having a senior moment but it seems if you set 7.5 IRE as the bottom, you aren't going to see below it. I will guaranty you that 0 IRE is the black (set-up) reference for HD; 7.5 IRE is the black reference/set-up for NTSC (SD). What our consumer sources and displays do with these seems to be what is confusing.
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post #202 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Interesting that was the case. I wonder if this is the result of using your Lumangen. Does your Lumagen put out 0 IRE for black of use 7.5?

I could be mistaken here but believe that the "Normal" HDMI setting equates to 7.5 IRE and Enhanced is 0.

Don't most HD sources like STBs and HD DVD players default to video levels which use 7.5 IRE for black? In that case I'd expect Normal to be the main setting. However I think the lumangen uses PC levels and therefore you needed to use Enhanced to get the 0 IRE reference.

It sounds like for your setup you have it selected correctly. But for people without a VP it they may need the Normal HDMI mode. What do you guys think?

I started writing a response to this part of Cam Man's post, then noticed that you already had!

If, in fact, there are going to be different settings required for SD DVD than HD-DVD and Blu-ray, things become more complicated. Can you still use a Blu-ray player for both SD and HD since you are using the same HDMI output? Or would you have to go into the menu and manually change the HDMI setting between standard and enhanced each time you watch a different format?

This seems like it would be a big PITA.

Cam Man- excellent review. This is pretty encouraging in light of your experience with film.
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post #203 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:29 AM
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Thanks Rob.
Quote:


Or would you have to go into the menu and manually change the HDMI setting between standard and enhanced each time you watch a different format?

That is certainly the case on an STB. The SD channels and HD channels are very different with regards to their set-up. That has been one of the benefits of a VP with input memories/sub-memories. With my cable stb, I have an SD set-up memory, and another for HD. I have macros programmed to change the VP input memory for each type of channel so that I get the correct set-up. I will have to see if such management is necessary for the RS1. I suppose that is what the User memory settings enable us to do.
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post #204 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 08:30 AM
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Thanks to Rob and Cam Man for the reviews. I have to say that when I saw the RS1 again recently, I looked for the bright corners issue and came to the same conclusion Cam Man did. Certainly a non-issue for me.

Enjoy!

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post #205 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Thanks for the review! Use binoculars when adjusting the focus. Then you can do it by yourself.


Use low powered opera glasses (binoculars) rather than normal binoculars since the latter are too powerful to be of much use.

From Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Adorama-Focusi...3201575&sr=8-4
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post #206 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Wm,

Since you checked in I'll ask. One of my reservations is the lack of "cailbratability" of this projector. As your test case for the H2K and my prior less than 1080p projector I have to swear by your expertise, so I have reservations considering the RS1.

Tim

Tim,

As do I - documents are "coming". Eventually I am sure I will be able to make improvements.

William

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post #207 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 10:33 AM
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Has gregr - or anyone else - determined whether or not the RS1 will be firmware upgradable by users for the problem he identified in post # 48?
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post #208 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinmc View Post

Has gregr - or anyone else - determined whether or not the RS1 will be firmware upgradable by users for the problem he identified in post # 48?

Gregr stated JVC might get back to him today (or not) on that
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post #209 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I could be mistaken here but believe that the "Normal" HDMI setting equates to 7.5 IRE and Enhanced is 0.

Don't most HD sources like STBs and HD DVD players default to video levels which use 7.5 IRE for black? In that case I'd expect Normal to be the main setting. However I think the lumangen uses PC levels and therefore you needed to use Enhanced to get the 0 IRE reference.

The Standard setting for HDMI does not equate to 7.5 IRE black, and is unrelated to the use of 7.5 IRE black-level Setup for analog signals. The Standard setting is for black at digital level 16, which is the standard for 8-bit digital component video signals. There is no numerical relationship between digital level 16 and 7.5 IRE analog signals. The Standard setting is for digital video levels (black at level 16) and the Enhanced (a terrible choice of terminology) setting is for PC levels (black at level 0). So while the difference between the settings may visually remind you of the difference between analog settings with 7.5 IRE Setup turned on or off, they are not actually related. In addition the reference white level changes from 235 to 255 between digital video and PC signals, but the reference white level does not change for analog component signals with or without 7.5 IRE Setup.

Edit: Changed "Normal" to "Standard" above. The RS-1 uses the terminology Standard and Enhanced, which is called Limited Range and Full Range respectively in the HDMI standard.

Greg Rogers
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post #210 of 8755 Old 03-06-2007, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Lem View Post

Gregr stated JVC might get back to him today (or not) on that

I talked to JVC today. JVC Japan is still testing its fix for the problem. They obviously want to be sure no hidden issues remain. I don't expect to see it this week. I still don't know if the firmware fix will be upgradeable over the RS-232 port, but I will let you know when I know for certain. They intend to send me the fix (upgradeable firmware or whatever form it takes) when they receive it.

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