Official PT-AE1000U Calibration Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 127 Old 09-03-2007, 05:05 PM
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Yes that is all you need to do.

I posted earlier the formula for calculating ftL. With anamorphic lens do the calculation assuming a 16:9 screen of same width then multiply by theoretical 1.33 lens gain - but your lens has losses so use 1.2 lens gain. The greyhawk likely offsets that gain. If you need more gain - Stewart is very good about fabric upgrades even if your frame is old production . Of course it looks OK now - you do the math to find out if it will be OK when the lamp fades.

You cannot calibrate any other mode to be a brighter D65 and you lose out on REC709. If you want a brighter compromise Cinema3 with ColorTemp-3 is "around" D65 below 75% grays - but blows up with cyanish white highlites and blown out bright colors which you will likely find annoying after watching Color1. Note I said "around" - if you are the type that prefers greyscale tracking to be flat even if not D65 - this is not for you as it has cyanish highlites and reddish shadows - so around means +/-10%.. But it is a better compromise than 'Normal' and 'Dynamic' - I don't know how anyone can watch those presets - they are purely for hitting marketing numbers.
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post #92 of 127 Old 09-06-2007, 03:21 PM
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krasmuzik

I just set up a 110" Carada BW screen 15'3" from the AE1000.

I am using Color 1 as you suggested but with auto iris on.

The BW screen has 1.4 gain and I have noticed that the blacks are now
more of a dark gray rather than deep black since I started using the BW screen
instead of the blank white wall I had been using while I was waiting for my screen
to arrive.

Since the gain of the screen already "washes out" the blacks a bit, would you still
recommend turning auto iris off?

I have an Avia calibration DVD, but I have not used it yet.

Most people say Color 1 is good "as is" so I didn't want to get too carried away trying to tweak it.
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post #93 of 127 Old 09-06-2007, 05:17 PM
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You need to set black and contrast level first. It sounds as if your too bright and are washing out your blacks. The Avia disk helps set that up.

Kras,

I've tried your recomendations, useing color 1 and the iris off. I have to admit that I prefer this settting, but I'm having a hell of a time getting the right contrast / black level with this grey screen.

I placed an order today from Calman TV for the i1Pro package he sells. I suspect I'll have numerous questions after I start playing with that....
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post #94 of 127 Old 09-12-2007, 08:13 PM
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Thanks for the insight and advice on settings kras! Switched settings on my 1000 today and am exceptionally happy with the results! Watched Casablanca on HD-DVD and Alien on DVD. Both looked better than ever, especially Alien!
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post #95 of 127 Old 09-13-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

I'm having a hell of a time getting the right contrast / black level with this grey screen.

That is what the waveform monitor is for - a very cool feature to perfect B&W levels. Check your sources - often they have marketed blowout modes too - you might need to find the user memory in your DVD player that lets you zero out it's controls.
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post #96 of 127 Old 09-13-2007, 12:49 PM
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SteveCoug

Either your matte white wall was too dim or your Carada is too bright.

The black levels will be OK when you do the math on your screen size to hit your 16-8ftL target over lamp life. Long throw doubles the contrast at the expense of brightness - so if you are shelf mounted to max use of the Carada - see if it works.

Watch carefully what dynamic IRIS does - pick a movie like UnderWorld Revolution which is mostly night blue scenes with a few golden flashblacks. Then watch without - then watch with. You will see why the better blacks may not be worth it vs. living with the normal LCD glowing blacks. Tradeoff you need to decide which is worse.

For those finally trying Color1 and no IRIS - live with it for two weeks watching all your reference movies. Then watch them all again in the other modes. It takes a while to sink in what you missed before.
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post #97 of 127 Old 09-15-2007, 09:26 AM
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Just tried the projector on color 1 (which I was using) with the auto-iris off (which I had not tried before. So far I see no downside, shadow detail and blacks in general seem a bit better, and as a happy side effect, noise from the auto-iris is gone.

I will re-callibrate tonight with the iris off and report back.

Thanks krasmuzik!
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post #98 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 09:47 AM
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Kras, How is the CMS on this unit? I owned a AE900 previously and the CMS was basically junk. I could move primaries all around but when I went back to view any reference scenes the image looked no different than the pre calibrated images. In particular I had some red push with slightly sunburnt faces that I could not calibrate out regardless of what I did with the primaries and decoder controls in the CMS. Has the AE1000 CMS changed for the better? Curious to hear your input.

Moe
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post #99 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 12:26 PM
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CMS is still junk - it only adjust colors near the captured video color - near hue, near brightness, near saturation. Use it to fix red push - as well as orange push, magenta push, dim red push, pink push...the CMS on Sanyo is better as it does colors near hue near saturation at all brightness levels.

The new lamp has a bit of red push - so you can try to tame it with CMS.

I call these cheap CMS as actually CRS - "color replacement system". Not a system for achieving perfected REC709 - though it can fool you as you can correct a colorbars test pattern. It is dang close already to REC709 - so CMS is just a gimmick.
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post #100 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 02:00 PM
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Thanks Kras, I would have assumed such. I wonder (doubt) if the AE2000 will bring any improvements to the CMS system. Although the Color1 mode is right on spec it would be nice to have a CMS like Sharp has in that way one could do a bit of experimenting with optical filters to try to capture the high contrast that these lcd machines have in their blown out presets. Of course color in these presets is horrible but again a proper CMS might help to rectify that.

Moe
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post #101 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 02:19 PM
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Just had my AE1000U calibrated by Eliab Alvarez de la Campa of Avical fame. He's done quite a few of my displays over the years, and as always did another exemplary job. The image is beautiful and extremely film-like as well. Everything is dialed in perfectly now and I couldn't be more happy with this projector. I would highly recommend to everyone to get a good ISF calibration done, it's so worth it. Eliab is a true professional, and a really great guy as well. Highly recommended! WWW.AVICAL.COM
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post #102 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 03:06 PM
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Moe

As the PJ has a filter in it already - not sure what improvement you could get in the blowout modes by trying one. You would think they already picked the best filter - and they are of course internally doing a gamut adjustment to hit the REC709 - lot simpler to do gamut adjustment when hardcoded values. But since they have several gamuts to pick from - they already support the conversion tables - so dunno why they cannot do a proper CMS that updates those tables - instead of just replacing a few colors!
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post #103 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Moe

As the PJ has a filter in it already - not sure what improvement you could get in the blowout modes by trying one. You would think they already picked the best filter - and they are of course internally doing a gamut adjustment to hit the REC709 - lot simpler to do gamut adjustment when hardcoded values. But since they have several gamuts to pick from - they already support the conversion tables - so dunno why they cannot do a proper CMS that updates those tables - instead of just replacing a few colors!

Kras,

I was under the impression that Dynamic which is blown out the worst did not put the filter in the path and represented the pure max lamp output. Cine4home seemed to coax some pretty nice contrast performance with a custom filter. Again though, without a proper CMS I'm sure the color gamut was a mess.

Moe
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post #104 of 127 Old 09-20-2007, 11:43 PM
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Right - normal, cinema3, and dynamic are removing the filter. Calibrating cinema3 back to D65 has no advantage over color1.
Dynamic has blown out gamma curves - so pointless to try filtering it.
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post #105 of 127 Old 09-21-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGuyOR View Post

Just had my AE1000U calibrated by Eliab Alvarez de la Campa of Avical fame. He's done quite a few of my displays over the years, and as always did another exemplary job. The image is beautiful and extremely film-like as well. Everything is dialed in perfectly now and I couldn't be more happy with this projector. I would highly recommend to everyone to get a good ISF calibration done, it's so worth it. Eliab is a true professional, and a really great guy as well. Highly recommended! WWW.AVICAL.COM

So...you wouldn't want to post the values he came up with would ya?

Just kidding...

(Sort of)
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post #106 of 127 Old 09-22-2007, 11:53 AM
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Your screen is probably worse off than the factory preset. What if he has a yellowish screen and you have a blueish screen? His ISF adjustments would make your setting worse.

Figure factory settings are good for +/-10% lamps - what if his lamp was +10% green and yours was -10% green (i.e. magenta)?

The iris and lens throw will also change the calibration.

Copying settings is a futile waste of time. If you want to get as close as you can at no cost - use 'color1' and turn off the iris. You need a very talented ISF to get any closer.
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post #107 of 127 Old 09-28-2007, 08:55 AM
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Kras,

I finally got around to doing some basic calibrations on my 1000U and was wondering if what I'm coming up with is similar to what you've seen, or if you some advice / input to share.

Keep in mind that I'm new to this, and as of one week ago, couldn't tell you what gamma was.

I am using a Eye-One Pro meter and CalMAN calibration software. My room is light controlled and I use a Stewart Firehawk screen. Throw is 12'.

I started out trying to take reflective readings off the screen, but was having troubles getting consistent low-light readings off the meter. Bill (Bear5K) suggested that I take readings with the ambient diffuser attached to the i1 pro and position the meter in front of the projector, calibrate the projector first, then tweak things later by taking readings off the screen.

I set up contrast / brightness with the wave form monitor and the VP-50's contrast/brightness pattern. If anyone is hesitant to mess with the wave form monitor, they really need to give it a try. It's very simple to use after you play with it. The one thing I figured out real quick was that is does not work with a static' pattern. I don't know why or how it does what it does, but it does nothing with a static pattern. The VP-50's pattern has three Pluge bars that are apparently not static and the wave form monitor sees them differently.

So after getting the master contrast and brightness set correctly, I spent about 4 hours (or more) with CalMAN and my i1 pro meter. I think I've figured out how to use the software and have what I believe are, some pretty good results. I watched the movie the Condemned last night with the new settings and was pretty impressed. Colors seamed more real and I was seeing shadow detail I have not seen before and just assumed was supposed to be dark. I still need to spend some more time with the meter and see how my screen affects things, but I needed a break. I was getting punch drunk looking at a laptop and test patterns all day..

Here are my settings so far:

Mode: Color One
Iris: Off
Master Contrast: +12
Master Brightness: 0
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Temp: 0
Sharpness: +1
Gamma High: 0
Gamma Mid: 0
Gamma Low: +1
Contrast Red: -1
Contrast Green: -5
Contrast Blue: +5
Brightness Red: -1
Brightness Green: +4
Brightness Blue: -1


The CalMAN software results readings are:

On/Off Contrast Ratio: 1216:1
Target Gamma: 2.30 (possibly too aggressive)
Ave Point Gamma: 2.35
Actual Gamma: 2.54
Color Balance: 10% - 90% - 6500K +/- 100, 100% - 6200K (lost blue at 90%)
Gamma corrected dE: 10% - 80% < 2, 90% - 2.5, 100% - 7 (both 76 and 94)
Rec 709 color coordinates were all on target with the exception of Magenta. It was very close, but just a tad towards Red off the target.



Do you see any glaring mistakes or areas where I should concentrate / change before I delve back into this again next week? The one area that was giving me troubles was blue. I tried numerous different things to get blue contrast to track better above 80%, but it just wouldn't cooperate. Even when I reduced red and/or green contrast, it still wouldn't budge. Raising it further only forced it too high through the mid range.
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post #108 of 127 Old 09-28-2007, 11:26 AM
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Maybe blue was limited gain and you need to to use the other two colors in the opposite direction - or maybe bumping contrast up moved you up to high on the panels curve - where blue was going off the curve. LCDs are nonlinear displays and you have to keep them turned down to be in the linear region.

You do want to figure how to get your sensor reading the screen - which is likely worse off D65 than the factory preset. But fine just to get the screen offset with a white field then calibrate from the lens - just crank down the picture size for a brighter screen reading.

With HDMI I did not have to change contrast at all - just chose the proper HDMI levels in the menu. You want to use video or standard levels - not enhanced black levels - which is actually PC levels. Make sure your sources are set for proper levels.
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post #109 of 127 Old 09-28-2007, 11:37 AM
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Thank you sir.... I'll try those tips when I get the energy to mess with this again... One thing I've learned so far is that you guys earn your money. Well, that is if you take the time to get it right.

I have the beta version of CalMAN V3, so I'll be playing with that next time..
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post #110 of 127 Old 09-28-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

Thank you sir.... I'll try those tips when I get the energy to mess with this again... One thing I've learned so far is that you guys earn your money. Well, that is if you take the time to get it right.

I have the beta version of CalMAN V3, so I'll be playing with that next time..

There have been some that watched me calibrate - after spending hours looking the box over and playing with the dials - the actual calibration takes ten minutes - which is all it will take on the next one. I've been calibrating since the millenium on digital projectors only - I get paid because I know how to do it in ten minutes... It was the painful years learning how to do it that fast as well as the painful hours on the new box that you are paying for! Even when you aren't actually paying me and DIY as a hobby - you get to go thru the same pain I went thru to get just as good

Of course back then AVS was all about AV Science - and one could actually get help in a thread by Guy Kuo (author of AVIA). We did not have any of this "DOODZ check out my settings - I have everything maxed out and it RULZ!"
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post #111 of 127 Old 09-30-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGuyOR View Post

Just had my AE1000U calibrated by Eliab Alvarez de la Campa of Avical fame. He's done quite a few of my displays over the years, and as always did another exemplary job. The image is beautiful and extremely film-like as well. Everything is dialed in perfectly now and I couldn't be more happy with this projector. I would highly recommend to everyone to get a good ISF calibration done, it's so worth it. Eliab is a true professional, and a really great guy as well. Highly recommended! WWW.AVICAL.COM

Come on Matt please post your settings.
I think my ae1000 looks great just on color 1, but setting it up with DVE, I have to bring contrast up to +12 and brightness up to +5. Everthing else looks great but if the projector is setup so well out of the box as advertised why the need to boost these settings? it doesn't sound quite right.
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post #112 of 127 Old 09-30-2007, 04:12 PM
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contrast and brightness are adjustments for your sources - which may also have contrast and brightness adjustments themselves.

The PJ is setup for a reference video generator source - not a consumer source. Nobody elses settings will work for you - they only work for your sources. The adjustments are there for that very reason - consumer sources are variable and require adjustments.

Check your black level settings on both the PJ and your sources if you think yours are too far off - but if you used DVE right with the waveform viewer - whatever it takes is what it takes.
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post #113 of 127 Old 09-30-2007, 05:51 PM
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I couldn't get the DVE disk to work with the wave form monitor. It was static. The Avia test pattern worked with the moving -/+ IRE bars, but only because the bars were moving. Did I miss a DVE test pattern?? Or am I doing something wrong with the WF monitor? (the DVE disk I am using is the HD/DVD version)
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post #114 of 127 Old 10-01-2007, 11:42 AM
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I use AVIA PRO did not realize static patterns was an issue - it does not use the moving bars like AVIA does. I also used the signal generator which is certainly static.
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post #115 of 127 Old 10-01-2007, 05:06 PM
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I don't think the monitor works right if it's static. Try using one of the test patterns with the +/- pluge (sp?) bars. You'll notice that the upper and lower bars that raise with brightness/contrast adjustmens looks live, while the areas without the bars looks dead. I am having trouble explaining this, but you'll see what I'm talking about when you try these other patterns. I may be imagining this, but it sure seams to matter when I mess with the different test patterns.

Where is this "signal generator" you reference?
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post #116 of 127 Old 10-02-2007, 09:51 AM
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post #117 of 127 Old 10-02-2007, 11:42 AM
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I've certainly had the PAL SD version of DVE working with my AE1000 and it's waveform monitor. I've also copied it onto my HTPC's hard drive so I can use it to calibrate when using DVBViewer and it works fine there too.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #118 of 127 Old 10-10-2007, 01:23 AM
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I set my brightness/contrast on my AE 1000 using the Avia SD DVD. Should I use the same settings for my Comcast cable box (HDMI)?

For the cable box, I am using "Color 1" with the default "0" settings for contrast and brightness and Dynamic Iris "Off."

It looks fine to me, but should I copy my DVD settings (HDMI from a Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player) which are Contrast +14 and Brightness -4? I don't know of any way to properly adjust the contrast/brightess settings for the cable box source.

BTW, I use "Cinema 1" for the DVD player.
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post #119 of 127 Old 10-10-2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCoug View Post

I don't know of any way to properly adjust the contrast/brightess settings for the cable box source.

If you use the 'freeze' button on the remote whilst watching the cable box, try to get a picture with bright white and full black somewhere in the picture. Then use the waveform monitor single line mode to see if the white goes up to 100% and if the blackest part of the picture is at 0% on the waveform monitor. Adjust the brightness/contrast accordingly. You might find that you need different contrast and brightness settings for your cable box compared to the DVD. You can save these settings in the memory of the AE1000 to save having to fiddle each time you change source.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #120 of 127 Old 10-10-2007, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

If you use the 'freeze' button on the remote whilst watching the cable box, try to get a picture with bright white and full black somewhere in the picture. Then use the waveform monitor single line mode to see if the white goes up to 100% and if the blackest part of the picture is at 0% on the waveform monitor. Adjust the brightness/contrast accordingly. You might find that you need different contrast and brightness settings for your cable box compared to the DVD. You can save these settings in the memory of the AE1000 to save having to fiddle each time you change source.

Thanks for the tip.

I was not really sure how to use the waveform monitor.

Fortunately, I use HDMI Input 1 for my DVD player and HDMI Input 2 for my Cable box on the PJ, so I can set the defaults separately.
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