Optoma HD81-LV Discussion/Reviews - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 493 Old 08-30-2007, 03:05 PM
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The budget model 1080p that I have has brilliant color and things look pretty natural on it. There's no control for brilliant color at all, just the True Vivid thing.

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post #32 of 493 Old 08-30-2007, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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The first review I've seen of the HD81-LV is up at projectorreviews.com. Art
had previously reviewed the HD81 and owns a JVC RS-1.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/opto...1-lv/index.php

Some highlights:

Brightest under $10K projector by far that he has reviewed. 2900 lumens in max. settings!

Twice as bright after gray scale correction as JVC RS-1 in best movie modes.
(1474 lumens in high brightness, iris off, low power 1061 lumens)

Very good black levels and shadow detail.

Poor out of the box color accuracy, but easy to correct.

The Panamorph sourced anamorphic lens is also reviewed.

Art said the next projector he buys to replace his JVC RS-1 might be an HD81-LV.
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post #33 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Some observations about the review:

I predicted weeks ago that lumens in low power movie settings would be
around 1000 and I was correct, according to Art's measurments.

He complained of green flesh tones out of the box. This is not the case
with Brilliant Color turned on--it is too red/magenta. With Brilliant Color
off, the colorimetry does look cold to plus green uncalibrated.

I wish he would have said more about Brilliant Color by TI. It seems like the
purpose of the feature is to not saturate colors, but brighten them, although red seems to go in the other direction, losing luminance and also shifting towards magenta.

I also wish a contrast ratio spec had been provided which calibration software
such as ColorFacts offers.

No mention of 24p source handling in Film Mode 48Hz and the fact that it is not possible to use in LBX or Auto235 modes with anamorphic setups on 2:35 material.

Two of the HD81-LV menu pictures look to have come from an HD81. The first menu, "IMAGE", does not show a line item for Brilliant Color. The display menu shows, "HD81 C06 2006/10/03". Clearly from an HD81, not an LV, which shows firmware level D02 2007/03/xx on my projector.

Certainly a very favorable review and reflects what I think about the LV for
the most part. I hope Greg Rogers reviews this projector, but I doubt it. It
will be interesting to read the HD80 review on projectorreviews.com to see
how it compares to the HD81 and HD81-LV.
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post #34 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 07:51 AM
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I enjoyed reading the review and like you Jeff find that it agrees with most of my observations. If you recall, I mentioned the poor "out of the box" setup when I first brought up this projector to all of you. I have not found a setting with which I am universally comfortable. I wind up tweaking every viewing.

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post #35 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Art,

Yes, you immediately said you weren't happy with out of the box performance,
unlike your last two HD81's, which you were happy with. When I received my
HD81-LV, Brilliant Color was turned on, so I wasn't aware of the cold/plus green
balance.

Regarding the other Art's review, I thought it interesting that he minimized the
effect of a low iris setting. I think we both agree that it pays dividends in CR
and full field blacks. With the LV and iris is very important because it's so bright of course, but I always ran my iris as low as I could with the HD81 to try to
extract better CR and blacks.
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post #36 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 09:25 AM
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Hi Jeff,

I am so happy just to have a projector that is working reliably that everything else I consider gravy. Bu seriously, like you, I find myself using a setting of 15 or 16 after the sun goes down and my home is dark. I live in the country on 2 acres of heavily wooded acreage so when night comes, it gets very dark. My "light" comes from reflected screen light that bounces off the white textured ceiling. I also used to get some light reflecting off the two speaker towers that are 7 ft. tall on either side of the screen. I have minimized that by setting the black speaker grills up on the inside edges of the cabinets. This dampens that source of reflected light. Nevertheless, the 1.3 gain DaLite screen is just too bright and I have to temper it down normally. I love this picture. I van honestly say tat fo the first time, I have a video setup that I amm proud of. Anyone on the fence about a DLP can buy this one knowing that the picture will satisfy. Later Jeff...

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post #37 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 09:50 AM
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Hi All
I just purchased a HD81-LV with the anamorphic lens.
I need to get a screen, any recommendations?
I was also wondering if you guys have any idea if this projector will go 156" diagonal on a 2.35:1 screen?
I was looking at a Stewart screen with masking.
Does the projector need to be mounted above the top of the screen?

Any recommendations on a mount?
I saw in the HD81 thread that people were saying to go with a ball & socket mount.

From this thread I realize the processor must have good cooling.

Any other tips would be great, Im dying to get this finished so I can play with it.
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post #38 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 10:38 AM
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I would buy a 1.0 screen. The closer you can get to a flat -non ribbed surface, the better the picture will be. I use a 1.3 gain DaLite Cinemavision screen because that is what I used with my CRT projector but I do not recommend it because of thesurface texture that you can see with a projector like this that is capable of so much detail. I have a gray screen but do not like what it does to the colors. Avoid Gray. Find a scren that is washable.

BTW, the VXD cooling is not that big a deal any more. Mine runs cool.

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post #39 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 02:16 PM
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In one of the more amusing examples of the variability of online reviews:

"During setup, I discovered the unfortunate truth that the HD81-LV is not capable of producing bright pictures if you want them to be accurate."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/0...oma/index.html

"Bottom line: The HD81-LV has the horsepower for serious watching of TV, and even a movie (for those less critical) in family rooms with significant lights on, or even some daylight sneaking in. In a properly darkened room, the Optoma should handle screens 10 or even 12 feet across with no difficulty for normal movie watching."
http://www.projectorreviews.com/opto...agequality.php

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post #40 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

In one of the more amusing examples of the variability of online reviews:

"During setup, I discovered the unfortunate truth that the HD81-LV is not capable of producing bright pictures if you want them to be accurate."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/0...oma/index.html

"Bottom line: The HD81-LV has the horsepower for serious watching of TV, and even a movie (for those less critical) in family rooms with significant lights on, or even some daylight sneaking in. In a properly darkened room, the Optoma should handle screens 10 or even 12 feet across with no difficulty for normal movie watching."
http://www.projectorreviews.com/opto...agequality.php

I find that I do not agree with many of CNET's reviews on items that I have viewed or purchased. The CNN review is a reprint of a CNET review. I personally believe that they are not impartial. I do not have personal experience with projectorreviews reviews, except that they seem very thorough.

Does anyone have any feedback on good (inexpensive) places to purchase the HD81-LV?
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post #41 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

In one of the more amusing examples of the variability of online reviews:

"During setup, I discovered the unfortunate truth that the HD81-LV is not capable of producing bright pictures if you want them to be accurate."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/0...oma/index.html

Tom,

Thanks for the link, I have placed it at the beginning of this thread. Wow,
it's like two reviewers living in a parallel universe. This is why I'm having my
LV ISF'd in a few days by a tech who was recruited and trained by Joe Kane.

I'm hoping that the wine colored/crushed reds can be improved, but have a
feeling that this will not be possible, given the CMS limitations of the LV.

As far as lumens, I know my HD81 lost a fair amount of brightness when
D65 calibrated, but I have a difficult time believing that the LV won't be
able to light up a large screen after calibration. I will post all the numbers
my tech gets.
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post #42 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 05:32 PM
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Quote:


I do not have personal experience with projectorreviews reviews, except that they seem very thorough.

Yes, but they are also technically very shallow. For example, he defines color accuracy solely in terms of the user Color/Tint setting and gray scale tracking.

In this particular case, it could be that the color gamut of this PJ is only reasonably accurate when you substantially tamp down the brightness. If this is the case, projectorreviews wouldn't even comment on this.

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post #43 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 07:33 PM
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In the past Art might get Mike to come over with his progressive labs tuning equip. I don't know if art sprung for some equipment. You need a pro system and at least a good light meter. Then the specifics on how to apply them.
Noing the details on what was used is helpful to validate. Projector Central is the same way, what are they using? Imagination I hope not.
Maybe PC has Sencore, don't know.

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post #44 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

In the past Art might get Mike to come over with his progressive labs tuning equip. I don't know if art sprung for some equipment. You need a pro system and at least a good light meter. Then the specifics on how to apply them.
Noing the details on what was used is helpful to validate. Projector Central is the same way, what are they using? Imagination I hope not.
Maybe PC has Sencore, don't know.

Art uses Avia Pro and a Optic One sensor for gray scale calibration. He always
says he is writing for the 95% of the audience that just wants to know if a
projector will work in their room, is it bright enough, how does it compare to
another model? Not us hardcore AVS Forum HT buffs.
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post #45 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 08:36 PM
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He needs a dedicated light meter not a color sensor to get the lumens right.

Which Art, I know Art/MrHifi uses the Optic one? Ok I got it he sprung for the Optic one.

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post #46 of 493 Old 08-31-2007, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Art Feierman, Projector Reviews. Don't know if he has a light meter, assume so.
I have a nice Sekonic digital light meter, but it only reads out in F-Stops or
T-Stops. Watched the HD DVD of "Hot Fuzz" tonight in 2:35:1 anamorphic.
Fantastic image quality, great contrast range, really awesome.
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post #47 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 01:10 PM
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Hi guys,

What joy!!! I can even use the projector on low blower and normal brightness. My God I am in heaven!! I am aiting a bit longer to do some serious setup. To my eyes, it is moving towards green as the bulb ages. I am at 160 hours and love what I am seeing. Have any of you tried the values posted in the review? I will try tonight.

Getting someone in here to do what I 've always done bothers me. There is just too much variability in the source material. I find myself adjusting all over the place in order to get reasonable pictures. In the end though, after a few minutes of educated adjustment, I can achieve a superb result. While i agree that someone like myself can set up a projector to provide volor temperature uniformity within a few hundred degrees K for 80% of the IRE levels, I find that the DVD's and TV station broadcasts often lok bad with these settings. Jeff, I believe you said th same thing.

Hey Tom, is the Transcanner working for you? If you hear of someone who wants an HD500 and an LD5, I have both for $500.00. The tubes have less than 600 hours on them.

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post #48 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

I am aiting a bit longer to do some serious setup. To my eyes, it is moving towards green as the bulb ages. I am at 160 hours and love what I am seeing. Have any of you tried the values posted in the review? I will try tonight.

Hi Art,

I'm still blown away by the CNET review that says the gray scale "goes into the toilet" when using larger screens. This doesn't make sense to me, unless he is saying that changing iris position affects color temp. or white shading drastically. That would imply some very poor optics, which is not the case
with the HD8x series.

So we have Projector Reviews settings and CNET's settings to try out. Last
night's HD DVD really left me with a sense that I couldn't come up with anything wrong with the image I was seeing. Really, the only thing that came to me was that it was a bit too bright with iris at 14!
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post #49 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

I'm still blown away by the CNET review that says the gray scale "goes into the toilet" when using larger screens. This doesn't make sense to me, unless he is saying that changing iris position affects color temp. or white shading drastically. That would imply some very poor optics, which is not the case with the HD8x series.

I think what he meant was that the settings required to produce sufficient light output to adequately fill a large screen harms the gray scale. At least that's what he claims he saw.

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post #50 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tom. That makes more sense. Does that imply not having enough
range in red and blue gains and bias to balance to a higher green(luminance) output?
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post #51 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 03:38 PM
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Jeff,

We must be genetically linked at the eyeball. Like you, I find the whites almost too bright. If I ever buy a new screen, it will have unity gain. The whites tend to burn a hole in the back of my eyes. I am amazed at the coment that the projector only works with smaller screens. I think there is some anti Optoma crap going on. That is just plain wrong.

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post #52 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

Hi guys,

What joy!!! I can even use the projector on low blower and normal brightness. My God I am in heaven!!

LOL, What have you done with the real Art? Is this the same guy from a year ago at about this same time?

After all of the crap you have been through over the last year it is absolutely fantastic to hear this.

Joe

Starting Research for new Theater. New Theater will be 24x36x12.

The link to my previous theater build :) Theater


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Daughter's Music
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post #53 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Art,

Something to try to mitigate the crushed/maroon reds, go to Vivid Color, select USER and
change the hue of most of the red levels to around 8. This seems to have helped, just
like bringing overall hue up.
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post #54 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 06:59 PM
 
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Can someone please confirm that this projector "will" do 1080P/24. Over at projector central website it doesn't include it in the specs...
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post #55 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you must put the projector in Film Mode 48Hz at which point the 24 FPS is doubled.
It will not work when using vertical stretch(LBX, Auto 235) for 2:35:1 anamorphic display,
however.
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post #56 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 08:50 PM
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Can anyone recommend a place to get this projector at a good price?
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post #57 of 493 Old 09-01-2007, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Jason at AV Science would be a choice. Why not check with our hosts?
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post #58 of 493 Old 09-04-2007, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I had my LV calibrated by an ISF tech today. The projector has lost a lot of
brightness compared to its uncalibrated output, but it still measured a whopping
28 footlamberts at D65, twice as much as a typical commercial movie theater.

I'm not sure why CNET was only able to get 9 footlamberts on their screen,
although they used a Grayhawk vs. my Studiotek 130.

Like my HD81, green gain had to be brought down, as did blue to compensate
for the lack of red gain to balance for D65. This affects lumens, as does turning
off Brilliant Color. The LV is still plenty bright, but not the eyeball searing monster it used to be when uncalibrated.
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post #59 of 493 Old 09-04-2007, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lprager View Post

Can anyone recommend a place to get this projector at a good price?

Yea talk to Jason @ AVS...I just ordered one from him and their price was good.

It seems to be back ordered at the moment though, nobody seems to have them in stock.
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post #60 of 493 Old 09-04-2007, 10:34 PM
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Did it help with the magenta problem you mentioned in a previous thread?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

I had my LV calibrated by an ISF tech today. The projector has lost a lot of
brightness compared to its uncalibrated output, but it still measured a whopping
28 footlamberts at D65, twice as much as a typical commercial movie theater.

I'm not sure why CNET was only able to get 9 footlamberts on their screen,
although they used a Grayhawk vs. my Studiotek 130.

Like my HD81, green gain had to be brought down, as did blue to compensate
for the lack of red gain to balance for D65. This affects lumens, as does turning
off Brilliant Color. The LV is still plenty bright, but not the eyeball searing monster it used to be when uncalibrated.

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