Optoma HD81-LV Discussion/Reviews - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:50 PM
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lprager,

My 1.3 gain screen dates back to 1989. I hate to get rid of something that works well. At that time I used a DWIN HD500 and HD700 CRT projector. The screen has always been a little too hot for my tastes because to get adequate dark detail, I wind up getting saturation at the white end. For open curtains it works well though. I believe 1.0 would be a good tradeoff. I watch in the daytime in low light.

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Old 10-08-2007, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lprager View Post

Art,

Thanks for the feedback. Your conditions sound very similar to mine.
Why would you go with a unity gain rather than a 1.3 gain if you had it to do over? Do you ever notice hotspotting? Do you like to watch sports, etc. with light in the room?

Also, what is BC?

BC is Brilliant Color, a new TI circuit that "lightens" colors, making for a
brighter image. It is dramatic, but plays havoc with color accuracy, I
used it for awhile, but never higher than 1 in a light controlled gray room.

I have used the Stewart Studiotek 130 1.3 gain screen since 1993. I'm
now using a 2:35:1 version and have never been bothered by hot spots
and feel it is a very natural looking screen that offers a bit of gain without
the negatives of high gain screens. In my light controlled room, I would
not want a gray screen and certainly don't need high gain with an HD81-LV.
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:37 PM
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I'd stick with the firehawk, it's a top class screen material. Will help with room reflections and your daytime football viewing. It's only 1.1 gain and it's not a very gray screen like the grayhawk. Studio tech 1.3 is also a good choice, it's tuned for color via Joe Kane. It doesn't have the ambient light features of the Firehawk though.

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Old 10-08-2007, 09:50 PM
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Tom, Jeff et al,

I may have stumbled upon a reason for at least one cause for unexplained blue screen issues. If you leave the machine set on 48Hz, and try to feed the VXP a 1080i 60 Hz signal, the blue screen will come on at some pint requiriring a reboot. This is repeatable. I wonder if all the inoperative 48Hz circuitry/software, could have been responsible for some of our problems. I believe that Jeff said he does not have a player that puts out 24/48Hz signals, so his lack of a blue screen might be due to this fact. I would like to hear other's thoughts on this.

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Old 10-10-2007, 11:34 AM
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Just replaced my HD81 with an LV - much brighter and deeper blacks, for sure. I will have the projector calibrated in a month or so after I get some time on the projector, but in the meantime, can anyone share their non-ISF-calibrated settings? I read Art's review and my projector also is a bit green out of the box, as the first picture from LOTR indicates:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/opto...agequality.php

I tried to tweak it last night to look more blue, but could not get close. If you've got settings you're happy with, I'd love to try them out.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:10 PM
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Currently i find the following settings work well. Please understand that you will have to set Color, Hue, Brightness and Contrast to satisfy the conditions being broadcast. I tweak mine every time I watch a new channel or input.

For the User Settings

Red Contrast......+12
Green Contrast....-2
Blue Contrast......+2
All the rest are 0

I use Color Vividness at 3 with ABC, 2 with Fox and 0 with CBS and NBC. I use 3 with my BluRay DVD player. I keep Edge Enhancement at 3.

I adjust Color between 0 and +10 and hue is normally at +5 but varies a little.

Getting it to look right is an art. Application of Brilliant Color screws up the color palatte and almost every accurate setting you worked so hard to set but it does give the picture a certain 3 dimensional quality. With certain movies, I have used it but mostly avoid it.

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Old 10-10-2007, 01:15 PM
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Lawder,

Can you share your setup.
Screen size, throw and any 2.35?
What are your initiall impressions?
thanks!
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Old 10-10-2007, 04:33 PM
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Hi!

I'm feeding my LV from a HTPC with a Radeon X1800XT graphics card. I've installed the latest catalyst driver, which doesn't support all needed refresh rates. It lacks 1080p50, 1080p24, 1080p48, for example. The other which are offered seem to work.

So I've tried installing PowerStrip which does include a "standard" timing for 1080p24. When I enable this mode, the LV shows "Processing..." and seems to switch to Film mode (which I've enabled in the LV options, of course). Everything seems fine (and HD playback is smooth) for about 10-15 seconds, after which the LV seems to switch back to 60Hz. The screen goes black for a moment (but no "Porcessing..."!) and the color wheel seems to spin up. After that, HD video again looks the same as in 1080p60 mode, so I guess something (the PC or the projector) switched back to 60Hz. Unfortunately, the stupid menu of the LV doesn't show the current refresh rate (Optoma engineers seem to be pretty dumb to forget that), so it's hard to tell what's really going on.

Why won't my setup stay in 24Hz? I've tried Vista and XP, with ATI and nVidia graphic cards, but it's always the same. This leads me to the conclusion that the LV is the cause of the problem!

Did anybody else experience this? Does anybody run the LV in 24Hz with a PC?

Is there a way to set PowerStrip to 48Hz? I've tried simply adjusting the refresh rate, but the LV won't recognize it. Probably I need to adjust all timings for 48Hz?

Thanks!
Martin
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

Currently i find the following settings work well. Please understand that you will have to set Color, Hue, Brightness and Contrast to satisfy the conditions being broadcast. I tweak mine every time I watch a new channel or input.

For the User Settings

Red Contrast......+12
Green Contrast....-2
Blue Contrast......+2
All the rest are 0

I use Color Vividness at 3 with ABC, 2 with Fox and 0 with CBS and NBC. I use 3 with my BluRay DVD player. I keep Edge Enhancement at 3.

I adjust Color between 0 and +10 and hue is normally at +5 but varies a little.

Getting it to look right is an art. Application of Brilliant Color screws up the color palatte and almost every accurate setting you worked so hard to set but it does give the picture a certain 3 dimensional quality. With certain movies, I have used it but mostly avoid it.

Hey Art - I'll give these a try after dinner. One question - I cant' find contrast settings for specific colors, I can only find a single contrast setting - do I need to unlock ISF settings to do this? I don't have the code to do this. What would you suggest? Also, what range do you use for brightness, or does it vary at both extremes depending on the source?
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:28 PM
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Click the Menu button. Go to Advanced, Click. Select USER on Warm, Standard, Cool, User selection for Color Temp. There you will find the adjustments for Contrast and Brightness for the different colors. I rarely move brightness or Contrast off 0. Sorry for not including it. If the picture is too bright, I try to use DVI 7.5 in the Input. That is normally too dark. I adjust Gamma up or down until I can just resolve objects in the dark areas like lapels on men's jackets. In 40 years playing with this stuff, i've relied with success on the lapel trick.

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Old 10-10-2007, 08:46 PM
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Ok, so this is what I have right now - for the Main Image Mode page, all settings (contrast, brightness, tint, sharpness, brilliant color) are at 0 except for Color which is at 5 (and will tweak to get the appropriate look based on the source). In the advanced menu, everything is 0 or Off (noise reduction, gamma, Auto Gamma, Edge Enh, B/W Extension, Demo) except Color Temp (User, set to your settings above) Image Mode (Film), and Color Vividness (currently at 2).

Right now I'm watching The Wiggles with my 3 year old, so hard to validate color correctness at the moment
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:28 PM
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Lawder,

In my opinion, every LV owner's settings are going to be different based on source, screen, ambient circumstances, and the individual characteristics of the specific LV we each ended up with--maybe even other factors, etc. I finally gave up trying to copy someone else's settings; they just did not work for me. I suggest that you just get some cheap calibration software and improve your particular situation. I bought the Getgray calibration software which provides very good tools for calibration in my opinion. The key is to get the brightness and contrast set well. In my setup, I use a HTPC to drive the LV, so I had to use DVI-PC in order to get enough range to get the brightness (black) setting to 16, and I had to really turn up the contrast settings (user temp contrast settings to about +22 each for RGB in order to get calibrated to 235 on contrast (white) as there was not enough range in the basic brightness and contrast knobs--and they are interdependent. Once that is done, check the color saturation for each color using the color stairstep tools to make sure you don't overdo it. In the end, you may need to turn on iris and move the siris etting back towards the lower light settings (mine is on 16 and I have plenty of light after calibration). Then tweak the color knobs to suit your taste for skin tones, etc. The point is that every setup and, in my opinion, every LV is unique and you will need to forget about what everybody else's settings are and find those that work with your unique source(s), ambient conditions, LV, etc. to find what works. That is why professional calibrators can stay in business. But, for $25 for a good calibration software that is made for DLP (by the way, I had the DVE basic disc and it would not do the job; that's why I bought the GETGRAY software) and some time, I think you can get pretty close to what will make you happy enough until you can get an expert to fine tune it. The out-of-the-box settings are SO FAR OFF (at least in my case) as to make you regret your purchase until you can get them close and then happiness prevails.

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Old 10-11-2007, 07:10 AM
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Dan,

I completely agree with you. However, I can not imagine setting the contrast level to +22 on individual colors. Your input must have some weird characteristics. Another issue is the accuracy of reference devices. I used to work at NBS (now NTIS). Traceability to reference standards was very important to maintain accuracy. I am not sure how these companies that sell thousands of so called "calibration" devices a month adjust the software and electronics to account for each CMOS's response. My rather sparse comparison of 4 devices demonstrated that none of them even came close to agreeing with each other. I do know that the Progressive Labs guy used to adjust each unit he sold against a secondary reference standard. I use an old one, the CA-1, for every set I have ever set up. These days I wind up using the DVD of Roy Orbison's Black and White Concert to set the gray scale and color temp by eye. I can usually get within 500 degrees of 6000 degrees which is where I prefer it.

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Old 10-11-2007, 08:48 AM
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Art,

I know it sounds weird but that is what worked for me. I tried all the settings you, Jeff, two e-zine reviewers offered and none of them produced movie pics that were even close. My education was in engineering so I even made a spreadsheet listing the 4 sets of settings to the extent that they were given and they are all over the map when compared. My strange settings are probably the result of my using a HTPC to drive my projector and not a dedicated AV-type player. I am sure that the video card in the PC is not 6500K, in fact, it shows the unadjusted temp to be about 7200K--but I have no reason to have any confidence that it knows what it's temp is. So, I left my video card at the standard setting and did all the adjustment work using the LV processor under the assumption that it should be better quality than a $160 PC video card+driver. I still need to calibrate HDMI3 which is fed by an off-the-shelf DVD recorder/player that I almost never use; once I do that calibration, I'll know if itis or it isn't that I am using a PC to drive the projector on HDMI1.

Anyway, the point of my post was that there are a lot of variables that come into play in making a good picture on this projector and that there are some inexpensive tools available to begin converging on good video while one waits for the ISF man to cometh.

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Old 10-11-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

Tom, Jeff et al,

I may have stumbled upon a reason for at least one cause for unexplained blue screen issues. If you leave the machine set on 48Hz, and try to feed the VXP a 1080i 60 Hz signal, the blue screen will come on at some pint requiriring a reboot. This is repeatable. I wonder if all the inoperative 48Hz circuitry/software, could have been responsible for some of our problems. I believe that Jeff said he does not have a player that puts out 24/48Hz signals, so his lack of a blue screen might be due to this fact. I would like to hear other's thoughts on this.

Sounds like you have something there. Another neighborhood HDMI glitch no doubt. You know I use the Tosh HDA1's component cables over to my Dwin HD500 and it works so great, the joy of Analog RGB.

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Old 10-11-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goondog View Post

Lawder,

Can you share your setup.
Screen size, throw and any 2.35?
What are your initiall impressions?
thanks!

Hey goondog,

Screen size is 117.5" 2.35 ws, Stewart Grayhawk reference, with the HD81-LV and the Panamorph UH380 lens + motorized transport. Throw is about 14', ceiling mount, and primary seating areas are slightly behind the projector.

Impressions - generally, amazing. Watching 1080p24 2.35 content via blu-ray or HD-DVD is incredible - far better than the theater, everything you could want, seriously. If you've never had a FP setup with 1080p, then I suggest you stop reading this forum and go get one instantly. If you've had one before and you want to know how this stacks up, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask as this is my first FP system.

The thing I love about the HD81-LV compared to the HD81 (which it replaced) is the brightness and the blacks - I can watch football on Sat/Sun with the curtains open and light coming in - not perfect, but totally watchable.

Some downsides with the HD81-LV:

I still have issues with Auto-235, though I know Jeff has reported it as resolved. My issue is in how the projector detects black levels - it's just not reliable enough so I just built 'Wide' and 'Norm' macros with my remote to handle the aspect ratio and lens in/lens out settings.

The projector is noisy, esp since it's more or less above our listening area. It's not horrible, but I have contemplated a hush box. I am sure that would be more trouble than its worth, and worry about impacting the already sketchy Optoma reliability issues.

Color out of the box is not good - green, as indicated by me above and others throughout this thread. It's not that big of a deal - a few tweeks and you're OK.

Hope it helps - overall, very happy if it doesn't break
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawder View Post

Impressions - generally, amazing. Watching 1080p24 2.35 content via blu-ray or HD-DVD is incredible - far better than the theater, everything you could want, seriously.

Lawder,

How are you able to watch vertically stretched 2:35 content in Auto235 or LBX modes using Film Mode 48Hz?
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:55 AM
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Tom,

I have an HD500 and an LD-5 doing nothing at my father's home.
If you want a spare, let's talk.

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Old 10-12-2007, 06:36 PM
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What's an LD5?

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Old 10-12-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

Lawder,

How are you able to watch vertically stretched 2:35 content in Auto235 or LBX modes using Film Mode 48Hz?

Jeff,

I have 48Hz turned off, but am feeding the projector two different 24p sources (Toshiba A20 and Sony BDP-S1). I use a custom Format to stretch to LBX and move the lens in. From your question, am I to understand that 24p cannot be achieved without 48hz turned on?

Quick Edit - I turned on 48hz and it still works fine wih 1080p/24 source and LBX on - am I missing something?
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:40 PM
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The LD5 preceded the Transcanner. It is a line doubler/switcher that puts out the gorgeous Cinema looking RGBHV that we loved.

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Old 10-13-2007, 05:25 AM
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Does anybody have experiences with 24Hz from a HTPC? Please see my posting above and help if possible...

Thanks,
Martin
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawder View Post

Jeff,

I have 48Hz turned off, but am feeding the projector two different 24p sources (Toshiba A20 and Sony BDP-S1). I use a custom Format to stretch to LBX and move the lens in. From your question, am I to understand that 24p cannot be achieved without 48hz turned on?

Quick Edit - I turned on 48hz and it still works fine wih 1080p/24 source and LBX on - am I missing something?

Lawder,

Film Mode 48Hz must be enabled for 24p sources, otherwise 24p is converted
to 60p. When I am in LBX mode, feeding a 1080/60i signal, Film Mode 48Hz is grayed out, disabling the circuit. If you can enable 48Hz in LBX mode with a 24p signal, that's very good news. Do you see any difference with Film Mode
48Hz on or off?
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

Lawder,

Film Mode 48Hz must be enabled for 24p sources, otherwise 24p is converted
to 60p. When I am in LBX mode, feeding a 1080/60i signal, Film Mode 48Hz is grayed out, disabling the circuit. If you can enable 48Hz in LBX mode with a 24p signal, that's very good news. Do you see any difference with Film Mode
48Hz on or off?

OK - so I turned on Film Mode while watching a 1080/24p source, and it looked normal - maybe a bit smoother image, but hard to tell - should I be looking for something in particular?

Also, I can enable Film Mode on 1080i sources (eg Tivo Series3), as well. I have not seem this feature grayed out on any of my sources, but they are all HDMI - are you using component?
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawder View Post

Also, I can enable Film Mode on 1080i sources (eg Tivo Series3), as well. I have not seem this feature grayed out on any of my sources, but they are all HDMI - are you using component?

Lawder,

So you are watching 1080i via HDMI in LBX mode using Film Mode 48Hz? I'm
using HDMI on three sources, HD DVD and Dish HD DVR and DirecTV HD DVR
and Film Mode 48Hz is always grayed out in LBX mode. This is how it was with
my last two HD81's with the 1-2-07 version of CO8 and now the HD81-LV.
Could you tell me the firmware version of your LV? Thanks.
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Old 10-13-2007, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

Lawder,

So you are watching 1080i via HDMI in LBX mode using Film Mode 48Hz? I'm
using HDMI on three sources, HD DVD and Dish HD DVR and DirecTV HD DVR
and Film Mode 48Hz is always grayed out in LBX mode. This is how it was with
my last two HD81's with the 1-2-07 version of CO8 and now the HD81-LV.
Could you tell me the firmware version of your LV? Thanks.

Hey Jeff,

I figured this out - I confirmed that Film Mode is grayed out and set to off when watching 1080i or 1080p24 content in LBX. However, if I switch to Format 1, which is a customer user setting that has LBX aspect ratio on my projector, Film Mode is no longer grayed out and is set to On.
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:45 PM
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Hey everyone, didn't want to loose the VXP so I decided to return the problem 81 and buy the LV.

Great picture, but I am now having a problem after 10 hours use.

I am now getting evenly spaced vertical lined (entire top to bottom) on the right side of the screen. From the center all the way to the right side.

Has anyone seen this issue?

Thanks
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:47 PM
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HDMI right? Try another HDMI device.

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Old 10-14-2007, 08:15 PM
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I have tried multiple hdmi cables and multiple sources. They even show if I have no sources attached. At first they would go on for a few minutes, then off for a few. Now they seem to be on all the time.
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:21 AM
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Don't email Optoma, call the tech area on the phone for fast service.

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