BenQ W10000 New Owner - Brief Review - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 08-20-2007, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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After months of reading reviews and viewing projectors I decided to take the plunge and I am very pleased with my choice..as is my wife.

My video system is comprised of a Denon 5900 with SDI out driving a DVDO VP30+ABT set to 1080P60 driving the projector via HDMI. The DVDO timing gives a non cropped pixel mapped image. Whilst the screen is a 106 inch 16x9 Da-Lite Hi-Gain.

I choose the W10000 inspite of its potential rainbows as it has a high ANSI contrast, does not rely on a motorised shutter to get an excellent contrast ratio and has all the required color adjustments to ensure that aging etc. can be easily accomodated. The advantage of no convergence issues, very high quality glass, a three year great warranty and quarenteed excellent grey scale also played an important role in my final decision. See other projector comments at the end.

The projector is hung inverted from the ceiling and set up was extremely simple. My biggest concern was focussing but the very fine adjustement made this a simple task, being focussed tight enough to see the mirrors dimple.

So what does it look like? Out of the box and set to warm, low brightness mode with the shutter about 60% closed the color temperature was typically 6800K with a contrast ratio (100IRE to 0IRE) of just under 4000:1. The white field uniformity was all but perfect (at all IRE levels) with no drop of in the corners for white or any other flatt field color. The black level shadow detail was excellent as where the blacks. Sharpness was truly outstanding and with all enhancment controls set to off or zero there were no signs of ringing. Colors were bright and well saturated without being "cartoonish" with skin tones taking on a very natural look. Ah yes the fan noise, what fan noise? At 23dB it is all but inadable when sitting six feet directly under the projector.

The only two issues that I have is that I occaisonally see rainbows when there is peak white detail on a dark background and I move my eyes/head quickly. There is also a very SMALL amount of light spill from refections of the lense housing. Considering the overall video performance the rainbow issue is a non issue as is the light spill which you really have to look for, my HT is almost a cave.

I new this was a keeper as soon as my wife said "well it looks like the expense was worth it, what a stunning image", and she thinks its all a waste of time and money!

Once the bulb has aged for about 100 hours I will fully calibrate the projector to see what its potential really is. Even without this it will be a long time before I upgrade again.

For those wondering why I did not choose the VW50 or RS1 the answer is easy. I have borrowed both of these projectors and both had unacceptable panel allignment, poor white field uniformity and various chromatic aberations. Being from the broadcast industry these are things that I could not live with.

For those that care the support audio system is a Denon 5803A, 5 Genelec 1038's, 2 SVS PB12NSD's + SMS-1 and 2 Polk fx500's.

Regards

Paul
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post #2 of 33 Old 08-20-2007, 08:00 PM
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Thanks for the review as this PJ is on my short list. You listed the size of your screen, but out of curiosity what is your throw distance? I'm looking for a ceiling mount at about 15.5 feet for a 110" 16x9 image. Could you check to see how much vertical lens shift you have up and down. I started a tread on the 9000/10000 and will need about 6 or so inches of adjustment to get my screen centered if I choose to go the 9000/10000.

Thanks again and enjoy your new PJ.

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post #3 of 33 Old 08-20-2007, 08:12 PM
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Great review. This is my first post on this site after months of researching the perfect projector for cih. I too am thinking between the w9000 and w10000 as it can do the vertical stretch needed. Do you think it is worth the extra money for the w10000? I plan on getting a carada 136" scope screen, brilliant white, soon for my home theatre.
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post #4 of 33 Old 08-21-2007, 09:25 AM
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Congratulations, Paul!

I am considering the same projector as a replacement for my RS-1, and since you seem to know what you are doing and are equipped for the job, I was wondering if you could take a few measurements for me. What I am trying to find out is lumens output with the iris wide open and lumens output with the iris closed as much as possible. Extra thanks if you can give me on/off contrast figures at each extreme of the iris as well. Basically I am trying to figure out what I can expect for lumens/contrast on my 139" wide 2.35:1 screen.

Thanks for your review and your help!
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post #5 of 33 Old 08-21-2007, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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dazed
The projector is set 15 feet back from the screen and 6 inches down from the top. There is enough lens shift to have the center line of the lens at or slightly above the top of the screen (I understand that the distance above the screen can vary a little between units). Regarding on/off contrast please see my response to Bob.

battsy
I cannot comment on the difference between the 9000 and 10000 as I have never seen the 9000. Whilst the 10000 may have a better on/off contrast ratio I would be suprised if its ANSI contrast is much different. Remember that for many HT owners it is the room finish. residual lighting and reflections that determines the ultimate contrast ratio not the projector once you get above a "reasonable" ratio. The simple addition of just one candle in a room can reduce the ultimate ratio to 1000:1!

Bob
I will do this as soon as I can borrow the company Phillips analyser again (probably this weekend). I do have a calibrated Extech light meter but do not trust it as much as the Phillips even though it has not been calibrated for a while.

I am amazed at the effort expended by manufacturesr to show just how large their on/off contrats ratio is I.E the new VW60 at 37,000:1! There are many other projector parameters that determine just how " good" a projector looks, E.G; grey scale, ANSI contrast and colorimity to mention just a few. Research has shown that your eyes can't perceive a changing contrast ratio in excess of about 1000:1 within a given bightness level or above a particular rate. Unfortunately many HT enthausiasts do not understand many of these issues and get "hung up" on this one specification.

Just my 2 cents!

Regards

Paul
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post #6 of 33 Old 08-21-2007, 06:06 PM
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Thanks for your knowledge on the w9000 versus w10000. I think i am going to go for the w9000 and save some money for the uh380 lens and maybe upgrade later on down the line. I have learned so much from these forums as far as finishing my basement as well as what projectors work with cih.
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post #7 of 33 Old 08-21-2007, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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battsy,

Good luck with the 9000, you should not be disapointed based upon my experience with the 10000. The only thing you should check is if you can see any digital dither noise on dark scenes with the 9000, it is none exsistant on the 10000.
With regard to lens movement. If I place my projector in the center of the screen I can move the top or bottom edges of the image to the center of the screen.

The panamorphic lens will be something that I shall consider when my new HT room is finished.

Good luck.

Regards

Paul
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post #8 of 33 Old 08-21-2007, 08:09 PM
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The W10000 is a fine projector and long ago I knew what others are only now starting to realize, its a shame that it took so long for people to discover how great this projector really is, I liked it so much after seeing it in a friends theater that I added it to my own theater just above my Marantz vp11s1, the Marantz plays on a 133" diagonal scope screen with Isco III lens and the Benq shows on the motorized 16:9 dalite highpower screen. The Benq is extremely flexible in terms of light output, color management system and setup. Im a lover of good optics and the W10000 has extremely sharp glass package that with a great 3 year warranty with replacement in the first year and you have a killer projector. I ran across an old quote I had some time ago from a projector company the projector was the Benq 8720, get his folks at that time it was $5500.00 and that was for a 720p projector and even before that the 8720 when it first was introduced was $10,000.00. The W10000 is a steal at its current price especially the way it performs.
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post #9 of 33 Old 08-21-2007, 08:43 PM
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Quote:


I am amazed at the effort expended by manufacturesr to show just how large their on/off contrats ratio is I.E the new VW60 at 37,000:1! There are many other projector parameters that determine just how " good" a projector looks, E.G; grey scale, ANSI contrast and colorimity to mention just a few. Research has shown that your eyes can't perceive a changing contrast ratio in excess of about 1000:1 within a given bightness level or above a particular rate. Unfortunately many HT enthausiasts do not understand many of these issues and get "hung up" on this one specification.

Agreed, but ideally I would like to have both. I own both an RS-1 (high on/off CR) and a Sharp Z12k (high ANSI CR) and to be honest with you in medium to bright scenes the higher ANSI of the DLP makes for a more contrasty image with greater image depth, and in those scenes blacks actually look deeper than they do on the RS-1 (due to less washout effect). It is only in the extended all dark scenes where the advantages of higher on/off CR become more apparent and if I have to choose between one or the other (I would prefer to have both), I will take higher ANSI CR as long as the on/off is decent (like 5k:1).

And since color accuracy currently is very high on my list of priorities, any projector that will at least allow me to dial in correct primaries, as well as grayscale and decoding, will be considered for my next purchase. I really can not stand watching inaccurate color any more now that I have spent a lot of time with accurate colors.

If the BenQ has sufficient lumens to allow me to achieve and maintain my desired ftLs, it might very well be my next projector purchase. I will be very eager to know the lumens numbers. Paul, please try not to include the screen when you take the measurements if it is at all possible. I have much less confidence in "off the screen" numbers than I do direct from the lens...there are just too many factors that can influence the readings when the screen is included.

Many thanks for this...I really appreciate it!!
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post #10 of 33 Old 08-22-2007, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Congratulations, Paul!

I am considering the same projector as a replacement for my RS-1, and since you seem to know what you are doing and are equipped for the job, I was wondering if you could take a few measurements for me. What I am trying to find out is lumens output with the iris wide open and lumens output with the iris closed as much as possible. Extra thanks if you can give me on/off contrast figures at each extreme of the iris as well. Basically I am trying to figure out what I can expect for lumens/contrast on my 139" wide 2.35:1 screen.

Thanks for your review and your help!

Bob,

Jason Turk did a review on this projector last year and took some measurements that may help.

http://www.avscience.com/reviews/pro...enq_w10000.htm
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post #11 of 33 Old 08-22-2007, 09:58 AM
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thanks for the info!

dazed

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"Put a nuke down a bug hole and you got a lot of dead bugs...." Starship Troopers
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post #12 of 33 Old 08-23-2007, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Funlvr1965

Nice to see that others have also experienced this projectors excellent performance. I couldn't agree with your observations more.
Happy viewing.

Bob

I never include the screen in any readings. I do agree with you in that having both high on/off and ANSI contrast ratios is the ideal goal. However most of us have a limited budget and have to make SOME compromises that we can live with.

Other links to this projectors reviews are:

http://www.avscience.com/reviews/pro...enq_w10000.htm

http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq/w10000/index.php

http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_w10000.htm

http://hdtvmagazine.com/reviews/2007..._projector.php

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videopr...00/index4.html

Hopefully I will have something for you by Monday.

Regards

Paul
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post #13 of 33 Old 08-24-2007, 06:55 AM
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I spent some time with the W10000. Its color is not as good as the Sharp because it's color decoder is inaccurate and the inaccuracy is beyond the range of the CMS controls, though they certainly help. On the other hand, it is a little brighter than the Sharp, owing to the 250 watt vs. 220 watt bulb. It is also more flexible in this regard in that the iris has many, many steps, so you can gradually open the iris as the bulb ages. The Sharp only has 3 iris settings (2 of which are suitable for HT) and a high/low bulb setting.

I didn't have a chance to evaluate optics, processing, etc. on the BenQ other than I definitely came away with the impression that the overall build quality of the Sharp was higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

And since color accuracy currently is very high on my list of priorities, any projector that will at least allow me to dial in correct primaries, as well as grayscale and decoding, will be considered for my next purchase. I really can not stand watching inaccurate color any more now that I have spent a lot of time with accurate colors.

If the BenQ has sufficient lumens to allow me to achieve and maintain my desired ftLs, it might very well be my next projector purchase. I will be very eager to know the lumens numbers. Paul, please try not to include the screen when you take the measurements if it is at all possible. I have much less confidence in "off the screen" numbers than I do direct from the lens...there are just too many factors that can influence the readings when the screen is included.


Tom Huffman
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post #14 of 33 Old 08-24-2007, 07:08 AM
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Yes, it's a tough decision, Tom, but a fun one! I really like my Sharp Z12k, so right now I am leaning toward the Z20k, especially if it goes "bargain basement" later this year. But as you mentioned, the BenQ has some nice features/specs, too. I will start a more serious search after I see what CEDIA brings.
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post #15 of 33 Old 08-27-2007, 04:03 PM
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I just picked one up too, quite inexpensive (4k) from an authorized dealer. Replaced my Infocus SP4805.

Big selling points for me, especially after the SP4805:
1) Very Quiet
2) Lens Shift
3) Very similar throw ratio
4) DC3 (an upgrade to DC2 on the SP4805, always important to have some upgraded feature to prevent buyer's remorse for me)
5) ISF calibration features (I will have this done once I have replaced screen and moved everything over to HDMI, since I just dropped it into my very old setup with the SP4805 with component and VGA runs, no DVI/HDMI due to scaling issues)

The funniest thing was when I opened the box and saw just how big the thing was compared to my SP4805. I think three SP4805's would fit side-by-side in the space of the W10000.

It all became slightly less funny when I realized just how that would impact my plan (A) to use the same premiere mounts universal mount I used with the SP4805. Since I am in a rental, and the ceiling is cottage cheese, I have the mount attached to the wall (much easier to patch!) with the mounting swivel plate out as far as it goes. The W10000 isn't really much deeper than the SP4805, so I knew there wouldn't be a problem with that dimension, but if you know the premiere mount universal mount, you know that you need to do a 180 degree rotation to lock the mount to the plate you attach to the projector. Considering the extreme width of the W10000, that presented a bit of a problem, in that the distance from the center of the projector (presumably where the mounting plate would go) to the corners was a few inches more than the clearance I had to the wall.

Being 5PM on a Friday before my normal 7:30PM screenings for friends, I scrambled to try plans B and C (shelf type options, both defeated by a curtain rod for the window which the projector is mounted over), and then I went to plan A' (yes, "prime") which was to use the same mount, but take advantage of the universal mounting system that allows the premiere mount to reach any hole pattern through the use of jointed arms. By not locking them down, it meant that the swivel point of the mount could move around quite a bit as I rotated the projector 180 degrees to lock it to the mount. 20+ pounds of projector, standing on a stool, sweat dripping and the clock ticking, it took me just one try, and up she went.

Eventually, I will remount this thing in a different way, but at least my shows (and about 4 more hours of Xbox 360 games, HD-DVD movies, and more shows) went on to about 2 AM, well past my normal stop point of 10 PM.

Nice and happy crowd. Very happy wife (she says one reason she married me was for my home theater, as she was raised on laserdisc, and thinks pan and scan should be outlawed, and yes, she is a filmmaker.) Her complaint now is that I need to upgrade the screen, and she wants me to do that ASAP so she can have more light on in the room while casually watching things (this is our only "TV"), which brings me to questions of screens.

Since we are in a rental appartment, I don't want to spent thousands on a screen now, but we do want to have something better than the blackout cloth stretched on a frame we are using now. Now that we have retired the poor old tired (5000 hours) SP4805, it is time to do the screen upgrade.

Ambient daylight gets in. Hard to avoid, even with blackout drape since there are many windows. The room is your standard small apartment entry way / living room / dining nook / kitchen room, roughly 18 foot wide by 16 foot deep (room is used width-wise for better acoustics, with screen on the long wall). There are a few lights (a torch lamp and a hanging chandelier) so light is just awful. The good thing is that all viewing locations on the 8 foot wide screen are all within 30 degrees, since you just can't get that far away from the screen on either side.

Any thoughts? Remember, currently, I am using blackout cloth as a screen, so I guess anything will be better than this.

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post #16 of 33 Old 08-27-2007, 05:15 PM
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Any thoughts? Remember, currently, I am using blackout cloth as a screen, so I guess anything will be better than this.

DaLite High Power.

Buy it in a Model C pulldown...It is cheap, relatively rental friendly, has high gain and pretty good ambient light rejection depending on where the light is coming from. The less the vertical angle to the screen between your projector and the top of your head, the more gain you will get.

Please click on the link in my signature. You'll be glad you did....
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post #17 of 33 Old 08-27-2007, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I am using the Da-Lite Hi-Power Model C pull down and am very pleased with its performance.

I hope that you enjoy the projector as much as I do.

There are a few measurements to come in the next week or so.

Regards

Paul
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post #18 of 33 Old 08-27-2007, 08:48 PM
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hi
thanks for you insight and your professionalism.

Jason measured about 286lumens at good contrast ratio level, which is very low.

it would be interestng to see your measures .


German mag AUDIOVISION just clocked the W9000 at around 651-419lumens, 3600:1 on off and 560:1ansi contrast and 0.06lumens black level.

in June they measured the W10000:
lumens maxi mini: 651-183
on off contrast: 3640:1
ansi: 640:1
black level: 0.06 lumens at those contrast levels.
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post #19 of 33 Old 08-29-2007, 04:57 AM
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There is a nice studiotek screen in the for sale area. I am using a 114" Carada BW with my 8720 and I have plenty of light output for sports with a few lights on.
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post #20 of 33 Old 08-30-2007, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Yes, it's a tough decision, Tom, but a fun one! I really like my Sharp Z12k, so right now I am leaning toward the Z20k, especially if it goes "bargain basement" later this year. But as you mentioned, the BenQ has some nice features/specs, too. I will start a more serious search after I see what CEDIA brings.

I bought the W10000 from AVS and apparently got a real lemon. I couldn't get close to what I would consider a watchable image out of the box, no matter how I adjusted it. So, I sent it back and got the Sharp 20k. I had a Sharp 9000, which I loved for what it offered at the time, and an Optoma H79, which I loved when it worked. The Sharp 20k, though, is a real joy. I liked it out of the box with just a few simple adjustments to the factory defaults, but once I had it calibrated it was simply remarkable. I watched James Blake in his US Open match tonight, and I just couldn't get over how natural the skin tones were. And, as I drive down the highway now, I think to myself, that's what the blue of the sky on my 20k looks like.

I also use the 20k with a Da-Lite High Power 110" screen. I had to lower the projector close to eye level (and out of my high shelf mount, also much loved) to get the gain I wanted from the High Power, but they're a perfect match. I have over 1800 hours on the lamp and it's still very, very watchable, even in High Contrast/Eco mode. I tried out Medium Contrast, but I moved it back to High Contrast right away. HC mode is just so rich. I also expect to get close to 2500-3000 hours on the lamp, since I think I may be able to continue to use Eco mode for some time. Once you get past a few hundred hours, the brightness level doesn't seem to drop as dramatically as it did at the start. The Sharp is also a glossy jet black, and it looks sleek and beautiful where it's mounted.

Too bad I didn't get a good BenQ unit. I might never have let it go. But, you owe it to yourself to take a look at the Sharp, too, Bob. It's an exceptional projector.

Joe Clark

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post #21 of 33 Old 08-31-2007, 11:48 AM
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Joe
the Sharp is a machine that grabbed my interested from show photos and the superb numbers in Widescreenreview ( 845:1 ansi ratio !!!) and it can be bright (as opposed to the Z12K) though less bright as the JVC RS1.

the high gloss black look is indeed beautiful.

seems Sharp though is quitting (again?) the HT market ?
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post #22 of 33 Old 08-31-2007, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

Joe
the Sharp is a machine that grabbed my interested from show photos and the superb numbers in Widescreenreview ( 845:1 ansi ratio !!!) and it can be bright (as opposed to the Z12K) though less bright as the JVC RS1.

the high gloss black look is indeed beautiful.

seems Sharp though is quitting (again?) the HT market ?

That's the word, unfortunately. After a great experience with both the 9k and the 20k, I was ready to pledge allegiance to Sharp, so it was disappointing to hear they were moving out of the home theater market. Still, if you can find one, you'll probably get a much deal on the 20k than I did well under a year ago.

Joe Clark

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post #23 of 33 Old 12-03-2007, 10:16 AM
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Just was searching through the forum and saw this short thread.

I bought the benq w10k in September based on recommendation and price. Not what I would normally do but the deal was too good to pass up. It was installed exactly on the same mount as my Dwin TV3e, although I had to fabricate an adapter plate from steel to mount it on my ceiling mounted Peerless mount. I fed the Benq with a single HDMI cable certified for high bandwidth and 35ft. I switch the various hdmi sources with the DVDO-50 Pro processor. That makes all my HDTV sources easy to switch and auto configure. The screen is a roll up Da Lite 92" wide with black masks.

When my wife walked into the HT and saw the image while playing Phantom of the Opera HD DVD she said WOW! I know it would be better than the Dwin as you said but not by this much!"

I only have one negative comment on the benq after 2 months. The time to come on from cold start is much longer than we had with the Dwin. It is slow startup.

I also agree with the comments on rainbows but I have taught myself to ignore them by avoiding sitting so close I have to dart my eyes around the screen. I sit under the projector and the cooling fan noise is non-existent. The Dwin was always noisy. I don't see any spill either.
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post #24 of 33 Old 12-04-2007, 08:45 AM
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I bought my W10000 in October for just under $3900 CDN. It replaced an NEC HT1000 in my theater and though I did see the ocassional rainbow on the NEC, I do see them more often on the Benq, probably due to the higher light/contrast output. But they really don't bother me. The picture on the W10000 is absolutely stunning and I do not regret the purchase for a moment.
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post #25 of 33 Old 12-04-2007, 01:15 PM
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Those of you who own or are contemplating purchasing this projector, does the lack of Gamma control in the User Menu bother you? I understand that it's in the service menu for ISF calibration purposes but I'm wondering if the lack of this function being available to the end user is problematic when doing a calibration with SpyderTVPro for instance or AVIA or DVE etc...?

I read a review yesterday which stated that the default setting for Gamma is 2.4 to 2.6 if I remember correctly. Does messing around with the Iris setting and/or contrast/brightness and/or RGB gains and cuts do the job just as well?

Those of you setting up this projector, what do you do? Do you just accept the native Gamma setting and make the best of it or do you use a separate video processor with Gamma control to bypass the projector's setting?

Or is it even an issue at all? My last projector, the Optoma HD7100 had Gamma settings that were user adjusted. I found it to be quite helpful in dialing in a great image.

This projector is on a short list of possibilites for my next upgrade.

Wayne
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post #26 of 33 Old 12-05-2007, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

Those of you who own or are contemplating purchasing this projector, does the lack of Gamma control in the User Menu bother you? I understand that it's in the service menu for ISF calibration purposes but I'm wondering if the lack of this function being available to the end user is problematic when doing a calibration with SpyderTVPro for instance or AVIA or DVE etc...?

Given that the service menu is exceedingly easy for any user to access, and in fact going in there is a requirement to fix the overscan setting, I don't see why this is really an issue.

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post #27 of 33 Old 12-05-2007, 12:41 PM
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Thanks Josh.

I didn't realize that you could access the Gamma controls this way. I thought it had to do with the ISF Day/Night area. According to Art at Projectorreviews.com, the Gamma controls are accessed through the ISF Calibration section of the Advanced part of the user menu. Apparently this area is password protected. Seeing that I probably don't have much chance of finding out what this password is, I do hope that you're right that the Gamma controls can also be reached via the service menu.

Okay, this isn't a deal breaker after all then if I can do as you say.

I'm not usually comfortable going into a service menu for fear that I'll somehow screw something up but you seem confident that it's not difficult so I'll keep this pj at or near the top of my list.

Thanks again,

Wayne
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post #28 of 33 Old 12-05-2007, 08:34 PM
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If you do not get a PM from anybody with the ISF password let me know, I will give you it.

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post #29 of 33 Old 12-06-2007, 04:00 AM
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Thanks Dale!

You just might get a PM.

Wayne
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post #30 of 33 Old 12-06-2007, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

I didn't realize that you could access the Gamma controls this way. I thought it had to do with the ISF Day/Night area. According to Art at Projectorreviews.com, the Gamma controls are accessed through the ISF Calibration section of the Advanced part of the user menu. Apparently this area is password protected. Seeing that I probably don't have much chance of finding out what this password is, I do hope that you're right that the Gamma controls can also be reached via the service menu.

There actually aren't any controls in the official ISF Menu that aren't present in either the regular User OSD or the Service Menu. The benefit to the ISF menu is that everything is laid out much more conveniently. The Service Menu is kind of a pain to navigate.

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I'm not usually comfortable going into a service menu for fear that I'll somehow screw something up but you seem confident that it's not difficult so I'll keep this pj at or near the top of my list.

Just be sure to write down all of your projector's default settings before changing anything. That way, even if you do screw something up, you'll know what to change it back to.

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