The Official SONY VPL VW200 "Sapphire" Thread. - Page 47 - AVS Forum
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post #1381 of 2113 Old 04-24-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Actually thinking back I remembered I did a long A/B comparison of the VW60 and the Ruby. I favored the VW60 in every category except rich color (due to the xenon of course). Early reports over there have the 80 as good or better in most categories than the 200 except in one major area. You guess it, color again. So if Sony is taking a break from expensive flagships as Mark suggested, I would expect a VW90 to surpass the 200 given it will have now been out since Nov 07. The specs actually favor the VW70 in some categories over the 200. I am sure the 200 is the all around better pj (especially with color) but if the 70 comes close in some areas than that should be another sign a VW90 will most likely pass it. Just some more food for thought while I ponder my strategy...

My experience was somewhat different. Coming from a top-of-the-line CRT projector, i have remained quite sensitive to the slightly artificial, digital look of many dlp, lcd, and lcos projectors. The VW100 and 200 remain, for me, the most natural looking of the Sony projecotrs and that trumps absolute resolution or sharpness any day.

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post #1382 of 2113 Old 04-24-2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

We won't see a 300 in this economy. Sony is cutting back from the high end. Their projector line up will be $3K to $3.5K and $8K. Not enough market for a new $15K projector. They are getting out of the high priced zone lighting LCDs too. Unfortunately, times have changed.

No doubt! Plus, if models like the VW90 are getting so good for $8K, then perhaps the bleeding edge becomes moot. It will be interesting to see if the same logic holds for things like $$$ audio processors and amplifiers.

Hope business remains good. Would love to catch up.

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post #1383 of 2113 Old 04-24-2009, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with you. Actually, I may just get another 200 and call it a day! Seriously...

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post #1384 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 11:13 AM
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I agree with you. Actually, I may just get another 200 and call it a day! Seriously...

Now were talking! I have had my 200 for a few months now and its realy up to the input Im feeding it, be it Blue Ray, DVD etc. (film based, video based etc.) what options I use for that input regarding motionflow, gamma, film mode etc.. I used to prefix these formats be it DVD or Blue Ray or HDDVD etc. on the USER 1, USER 2 etc. but seeing that the quality of the material on these formats Blue Ray etc. (especially DVD) is so variable I usually now go to the menu of the 200 to fix the problems I see and the 200 allways has some answers to these problems. This only takes a few minutes when you get used to the 200s menu as you know joe. I see no other projector having all the options the 200 has, at least in its price class. Sure all these options are not for the "technophobes" out there, but this forum is obviously not for them anyway. So I well understand Joe missing the 200. The price of the 200 has also gone down. I got mine for 6990$ on ebay. Maybe I was lucky but I bet you you will see a lot of deals like this now, because of the ressession.
By the way Joe. Youve had a lot of Blue Ray players fed to your 200. If you get another one what kind of Blue Ray arsenal can we expect you to feed it. I hear that the OPPO will be available soon and then theres the MOMITSU thats suposed to be the first region free out of the box unit. Would be nice tho hear from a weteran like you whats up the pipes at your end.
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post #1385 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually Thunder I have already fed my previous 200 the 09FD (which is still my main player), the new Oppo (Beta testing), and a boatload of other players. I will spend some more time doing the Panny BD60 and one of the newer Pioneer Blu ray units hitting soon. It's not that I don't like the other PJs I have played with lately, it's like you said. I just got really used to the 200 and what it does for me. I plan to do another "review" when I get it (VW200) up and going. I will compare it to what I just had previously up in the last month or so.

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post #1386 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Actually Thunder I have already fed my previous 200 the 09FD (which is still my main player), the new Oppo (Beta testing), and a boatload of other players. I will spend some more time doing the Panny BD60 and one of the newer Pioneer Blu ray units hitting soon. It's not that I don't like the other PJs I have played with lately, it's like you said. I just got really used to the 200 and what it does for me. I plan to do another "review" when I get it (VW200) up and going. I will compare it to what I just had previously up in the last month or so.

If I understand you correctly, youve tried the new OPPO 83 with the 200! Did not see anything about that erlier on this tread, care to enlighten us mere mortals on how it compared to your other Blue Ray players, with the 200 in mind
Oh and I remember you having a Playstation once hooked up to the 200. When did you "discard" that from the 200, for what player and for what reasons. Im asking you this as you seemd to like it a lot way back on this thread. This just so we know about the missing links in the evolution of this thread
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post #1387 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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If you follow the link in my sig I have all of my reviews there. As for the PS3 I still have it and it is my utility Blu ray player. I can send it to the bar or the playroom and just bring the remote in those areas. I have been using the Pioneer 09FD as my main for a little while now. I liked the Oppo and it did an exceptional job but I like the two HDMI outs on the 09FD. You can read my takes if you follow those links...

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post #1388 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 07:00 PM
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I agree with you. Actually, I may just get another 200 and call it a day! Seriously...

After all... football season is just around the corner (thinking about after the draft this weekend)... and football without motionflow????? I'm making plans to make sure my 200 has a fresh lamp come August.

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post #1389 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 07:20 PM
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If you follow the link in my sig I have all of my reviews there. As for the PS3 I still have it and it is my utility Blu ray player. I can send it to the bar or the playroom and just bring the remote in those areas. I have been using the Pioneer 09FD as my main for a little while now. I liked the Oppo and it did an exceptional job but I like the two HDMI outs on the 09FD. You can read my takes if you follow those links...

Thanx for the link info. By the way how does the OPPO compare to the Sony 350 on the VW200, as I was thinking of getting the OPPO when they finally release it to us mere mortals?
And talking about the 350, do you think a same brand hookup to the 200, that is a Sony to a Sony makes any dif. "HDMI speak" vise etc.. I for example find my Sony Blue Ray player very reliable when it comes to the 200 and find the "flow" for a lack of a better technical word to be very "natural" for a lack of another technical word. but then again I have not tried as many blue ray players as you obviously have. It would be interesting to hear your take on that.
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post #1390 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 07:30 PM
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By the way how does the OPPO compare to the Sony 350 on the VW200, as I was thinking of getting the OPPO when they finally release it to us mere mortals?

I also have had a EAP Oppo BDP-83 for some weeks now. I cannot speak to its utility as a fully-featured player, but as a 'digital transport' it is first rate with both bluray and DVD. The big flaw with both the Sony 350 and 550 is they do not do 'source direct', so if you have an outboard scaler, look elsehwhere! Given I use a Meridian front end, I also need a player that decodes bitstream to PCM for all formats.

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Thanx for the link info. By the way how does the OPPO compare to the Sony 350 on the VW200, as I was thinking of getting the OPPO when they finally release it to us mere mortals?
And talking about the 350, do you think a same brand hookup to the 200, that is a Sony to a Sony makes any dif. "HDMI speak" vise etc.. I for example find my Sony Blue Ray player very reliable when it comes to the 200 and find the "flow" for a lack of a better technical word to be very "natural" for a lack of another technical word. but then again I have not tried as many blue ray players as you obviously have. It would be interesting to hear your take on that.

Just came to me, the technical word is of course "natural motionflow" from a Sony to a Sony
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post #1392 of 2113 Old 04-26-2009, 07:36 PM
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I also have had a EAP Oppo BDP-83 for some weeks now. I cannot speak to its utility as a fully-featured player, but as a 'digital transport' it is first rate with both bluray and DVD. The big flaw with both the Sony 350 and 550 is they do not do 'source direct', so if you have an outboard scaler, look elsehwhere! Given I use a Meridian front end, I also need a player that decodes bitstream to PCM for all formats.

I just put a HD621 into my setup as I have a 568. Are you using a HD621 also? Now that would be a coincidence
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post #1393 of 2113 Old 04-27-2009, 09:28 AM
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I just put a HD621 into my setup as I have a 568. Are you using a HD621 also? Now that would be a coincidence

I am waffling big time about whether to get the HD621. I own the Meridian 861v4 and am finding their silence on whether a MMHR card will be made available somewhat frustrating - so, for now, I'm getting my Oppo BDP-83 modded for a 4xSPDIF output which will avoid the need for the HD621.

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I am waffling big time about whether to get the HD621. I own the Meridian 861v4 and am finding their silence on whether a MMHR card will be made available somewhat frustrating - so, for now, I'm getting my Oppo BDP-83 modded for a 4xSPDIF output which will avoid the need for the HD621.

Interesting. I can tell you that the HD621 works fine with my 568.25 and has brought a whole new dimension to it. A unit that was nearly outdated has now become as good as the leading edge audio units with top notch Dolby True HD and DTS HD. The HD621 is naturally also a top notch HDMI switch box to the Sony VW200. I highly recommend it, especially to all Meridian owners. Problem is that it is so "damned" expensive in the States. It costs only about half as much here in Europe so I quite understand you waiting to see what happens.
Regarding your comment that the Sony 350 and 550 do not have source direct? I find this very strange as my multi regional S300 shows source direct in the video format display when I use it direct to the VW200? Are you telling me that the 300 has Source direct but not the 350 and 550. I find that very strange, please explain.
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Problem is that it is so "damned" expensive in the States. It costs only about half as much here in Europe so I quite understand you waiting to see what happens.
Regarding your comment that the Sony 350 and 550 do not have source direct? I find this very strange as my multi regional S300 shows source direct in the video format display when I use it direct to the VW200? Are you telling me that the 300 has Source direct but not the 350 and 550. I find that very strange, please explain.

Yes, $3K here in the USA for the HD621 as opposed to just a few hundred to mod my Oppo for 4xSPDIF. I'll live with that for a while and see how it works out until Meridian make it a bit clearer or how/if they plan to get discreet 7.1 signals into their processors.

On Bluray, apparently Sony decided to drop the 'source direct' feature on all their new players (including the hiend model). Not sure I understand why, other than perhaps most owners don't bother with outboard video processors. The Oppo was the first player I found that offered both 'source direct' for video and the ability to decode to PCM all of the lossless audio codecs (which the HD621 needs).

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Yes, $3K here in the USA for the HD621 as opposed to just a few hundred to mod my Oppo for 4xSPDIF. I'll live with that for a while and see how it works out until Meridian make it a bit clearer or how/if they plan to get discreet 7.1 signals into their processors.

On Bluray, apparently Sony decided to drop the 'source direct' feature on all their new players (including the hiend model). Not sure I understand why, other than perhaps most owners don't bother with outboard video processors. The Oppo was the first player I found that offered both 'source direct' for video and the ability to decode to PCM all of the lossless audio codecs (which the HD621 needs).

Do you know how the new Momitsu Blue Ray player compares to the Oppo with these points in mind?
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post #1397 of 2113 Old 04-28-2009, 06:27 PM
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Do you know how the new Momitsu Blue Ray player compares to the Oppo with these points in mind?

Just to answer my own question here about the Momitsu as I love talking to myself now and then From what I have learned from the Momitsu thread here on AV Science forum. The Momitsu seems to have the PCM/HDMI option but not the Direct Source. So Oppo has the Direct Source but the Momitsu is codefree out of the box. Looks like Ill wait for the Oppo to be released to the general public so I can use it with my VW200. and wait and wait and wait....
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post #1398 of 2113 Old 04-28-2009, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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The title says it all. Thanks to CaptainZ for helping me "obtain" another VW200! I feel like I have my best friend back. I have spent the last 5 or 6 weeks playing with a FPJ1/RS2 and a RS20. I will say the the overall conrast and black levels may favor the JVCs but as far as panning goes nothing beats the Sony! Of course I will be the first to admit I am more sensitive and since the last couple years I have only had Sony models that did not help. I will say the RS20 does put out one heck of a picture though and the gamma adjustments really help make it next level good. For me though I would rather take the 200's color, sharpness and better panning. Plus the 200 does have very good black level and excellent contrast to. Combine all of that with the DFI on the lowest level and you have one of the best PJs available today. I have learned the grass is greener on this side. I have also learned that superior optics and a better path do mean something. And not to mention just because something is newer doesn't mean it is better. And finally just because a few magazine "reviewers" say it is the next coming doesn't mean it is. I guess they need to pay for all those ad pages somehow!

Here is the more interesting details. I had one of the first VW200s in November of 07. This VW200 I have (as of early this morning) was from August of last year. It actually went into Laredo, TX and received a new power supply and a firmware update. What does that mean? I will say it seems to power on differently (a little less harsh) and seems a little quieter. Also trying to recall or even looking at my pics of my original 200 I did not see the BRAVIA writing above the lighted Sony logo on the bottom. So does this mean anything? Maybe... I usually prefer Manual set to 92 for nearly everything. Well so far I am liking Adv. Iris 1 set to fast for movies. I have been at it the better part of the day and evening and I like the extra boost in contrast. Of course maybe since I got used to seeing more from the native RS20 higher contrast levels it is making me go the Adv. Iris route. Either way I am seeing excellent results. I am also using the Film Proj at level 3 (the lowes setting) and NOT seeing any hints of flicker. The lamp is at nearly 300 hours. With my original I would see flicker at around 100 with the DFI on the low setting. That is making a huge improvement in panning slow and fast as well as fast action scenes. And yes this goes for 1080p/24 as well!

The service menu settings look to be about the same (from what I remember) so nothing alarming there. I also am happy to report that 1080p/24 4:4:4 upconverted color 12 bit or 16 bit from the 09FD works as it did before. Of course I wasn't expecting it not to work.

So finally I will tell all fellow VW200 owners out there that there is nothing else better in the LCD world. At least nothing around and below this price range. Other brands may come close but the overall package is right here. The Xenon Lamp though expensivehas no substitute. Colors are more rich and natural. Add that feature with the VW200's 10 bit panels and the other brands8 bit panels the differences really start to surface. Of course the VW200's 12 bit full digital drive chassis helps... Anyway, it is going to be hard to convince me to try a VW90 this Fall. I think I am thru chasing rainbows. If it weren't for CaptainZ I would still be chasing them! My best bet is probably to wait until Sony releases a VW300 no matter how long that might be... I will begin working on calibrating and will post tome settings soon... It feels good to be back.

Some T3 pics....
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post #1399 of 2113 Old 04-28-2009, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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It's that time of year again...
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From tonight's Bulls versus Celtics game...
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post #1401 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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On the Bulls versus Celtics pics I had the pic mode in Dynamic with color space Wide and with Film Proj. mode 3 and MotionFlow on High. Oh and Black level on High as well with Gamma 3 engaged. I wanted to report it since I had a few questions about which settings I was using for the game...

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post #1402 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 09:50 AM
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On the Bulls versus Celtics pics I had the pic mode in Dynamic with color space Wide and with Film Proj. mode 3 and MotionFlow on High. Oh and Black level on High as well with Gamma 3 engaged. I wanted to report it since I had a few questions about which settings I was using for the game...

I'll bet you had the volume on 11 also, huh?
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I did after Brad Miller missed his free throw!

Of course that should have been a flagrant foul!!!

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post #1404 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 10:21 AM
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The title says it all. Thanks to CaptainZ for helping me "obtain" another VW200! I feel like I have my best friend back. I have spent the last 5 or 6 weeks playing with a FPJ1/RS2 and a RS20. I will say the the overall conrast and black levels may favor the JVCs but as far as panning goes nothing beats the Sony! Of course I will be the first to admit I am more sensitive and since the last couple years I have only had Sony models that did not help. I will say the RS20 does put out one heck of a picture though and the gamma adjustments really help make it next level good. For me though I would rather take the 200's color, sharpness and better panning. Plus the 200 does have very good black level and excellent contrast to. Combine all of that with the DFI on the lowest level and you have one of the best PJs available today. I have learned the grass is greener on this side. I have also learned that superior optics and a better path do mean something. And not to mention just because something is newer doesn't mean it is better. And finally just because a few magazine "reviewers" say it is the next coming doesn't mean it is. I guess they need to pay for all those ad pages somehow!

Here is the more interesting details. I had one of the first VW200s in November of 07. This VW200 I have (as of early this morning) was from August of last year. It actually went into Laredo, TX and received a new power supply and a firmware update. What does that mean? I will say it seems to power on differently (a little less harsh) and seems a little quieter. Also trying to recall or even looking at my pics of my original 200 I did not see the BRAVIA writing above the lighted Sony logo on the bottom. So does this mean anything? Maybe... I usually prefer Manual set to 92 for nearly everything. Well so far I am liking Adv. Iris 1 set to fast for movies. I have been at it the better part of the day and evening and I like the extra boost in contrast. Of course maybe since I got used to seeing more from the native RS20 higher contrast levels it is making me go the Adv. Iris route. Either way I am seeing excellent results. I am also using the Film Proj at level 3 (the lowes setting) and NOT seeing any hints of flicker. The lamp is at nearly 300 hours. With my original I would see flicker at around 100 with the DFI on the low setting. That is making a huge improvement in panning slow and fast as well as fast action scenes. And yes this goes for 1080p/24 as well!

The service menu settings look to be about the same (from what I remember) so nothing alarming there. I also am happy to report that 1080p/24 4:4:4 upconverted color 12 bit or 16 bit from the 09FD works as it did before. Of course I wasn't expecting it not to work.

So finally I will tell all fellow VW200 owners out there that there is nothing else better in the LCD world. At least nothing around and below this price range. Other brands may come close but the overall package is right here. The Xenon Lamp though expensivehas no substitute. Colors are more rich and natural. Add that feature with the VW200's 10 bit panels and the other brands8 bit panels the differences really start to surface. Of course the VW200's 12 bit full digital drive chassis helps... Anyway, it is going to be hard to convince me to try a VW90 this Fall. I think I am thru chasing rainbows. If it weren't for CaptainZ I would still be chasing them! My best bet is probably to wait until Sony releases a VW300 no matter how long that might be... I will begin working on calibrating and will post tome settings soon... It feels good to be back.

Some T3 pics....

Are you sure you don't want to try the VW80? VW80 is supposed to have all of above you mentioned (minus xenon) but better contrast and blacks!

Glad you found the right projector for you. Most people would not admit that they made a mistake by switching. Now just sit back, relax and enjoy because you really are not missing out on anything. You have one of the best projector most people can only dream about owning.
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post #1405 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I know the VW80 is pretty impressive to. I was just more apprehensive since I sell more than I keep. How hard would it be to move the VW80 over here? Plus I know there first question will be about warranty. Anyway, I am happy I have my friend the 200 back. For a long time...

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post #1406 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 01:27 PM
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On the Bulls versus Celtics pics I had the pic mode in Dynamic with color space Wide and with Film Proj. mode 3 and MotionFlow on High. Oh and Black level on High as well with Gamma 3 engaged. I wanted to report it since I had a few questions about which settings I was using for the game...

Joe - that's a great setting for sports. What is your current projector setting for Blu-ray movies at 1080/24p?
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post #1407 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Joe - that's a great setting for sports. What is your current projector setting for Blu-ray movies at 1080/24p?

Thanks. I am working on the Blu ray 1080p/24 settings tonite. Yesterday was my first day back and since the games were on it was perfect. I will post them shortly then I will post my basic DirecTV (Standard) settings...

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post #1408 of 2113 Old 04-29-2009, 08:57 PM
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The title says it all. Thanks to CaptainZ for helping me "obtain" another VW200!

Welcome back! I myself suspect that the 200 may well reside for longer in my system than any previous projector.

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post #1409 of 2113 Old 04-30-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Welcome back! I myself suspect that the 200 may well reside for longer in my system than any previous projector.

Thanks. It's going to take dynamite to get this 200 down. We watched some Supernatual episodes lastnite so I will get my updated Blu ray 1080p/24 settings posted this afternoon.

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post #1410 of 2113 Old 04-30-2009, 06:07 AM
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Thanks. It's going to take dynamite to get this 200 down. We watched some Supernatual episodes lastnite so I will get my updated Blu ray 1080p/24 settings posted this afternoon.

Since you have also experimented with bluray player far more than I, where have you landed at this point with the VW200? I've had an EAP Oppo BDP-83 for some weeks now and find it most impressive, but have you had a chance to compare yours to some of the better models out there (I'm thinking the top-of-the-line Sony and Denon models specifically).

Thx!

Simon

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