The Official SONY VPL VW200 "Sapphire" Thread. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I am really shocked (and delighted) to start the New Sony VW200 thread. This PJ represents a few firsts for me. For one as far as I know I may be the first (end-user) to get the U.S. version VW200. It also is the first Sony flagship PJ I have ever owned. And finally it is (or most likely will be) the first STICKY thread I have ever had here at AVS!

This starting post is very preliminary because I obviously need much more time to evaluate. As I unwrapped it though I could tell it was a very high end product. It was pretty impressive. I have previously owned the VW100 and as many of you know the VW60 "Black Pearl" as well. The remote (pic 3) is very nice. It screams high end when it is in your hand. The color of the Blue Ruby is very impressive. I like its elegant look. And I am pleased to say I also got back my beloved "lighted" SONY logo! It's the little things that count.

So enough of the boring stuff. How does it look? I turned it on and jumped right into some of last nights NFL game between the Cowboys and Packers in HD. I predicted the score of 37 to 24 in favor of Dallas so I was almost right! Anyway, setting the FULL MOTION to HIGH yielded great results. It is hard to explain the look. It is very smooth looking almost like they are running right in front of you! Not an ounce of motion-blur which I really am sensitive to. The coolest aspect of this feature is no matter how fast the action got the picture remained SHARP and CLEAR. I love this feature for football in HD and will definitely work with it a lot this Sunday! Speaking of SHARPNESS, well it really does have plenty of it. I would say the VW60 is very close to it though but I would still give the edge to the VW200 with its MOTIONFLOW. As for colors, I really liked how the colors looked on my VW100 even a little more than the VW60s. Well, I am happy to report I got them back and then some. It is like they combined the punch of the VW60 and the richness of the VW100 and came out with the VW200. As for brightness, I would say the VW60 and VW200 are about the same. Of course I just turned on the 200 so I will have to wait a little bit to know for sure. My 120.5" Vutec SilverStar was lit up though! I should also mention this PJ is also very quiet to. I could not even tell it was on!

Now for my favorite subject. HD DVD and Blu ray titles. This PJ is very close to CRT as I am willing to bet many soon afterwards will agree with me. The inky blacks were very deep. I have been planning to get the Carada Masquerade Masking System but quite honestly I do not think I will need it (but will still most likely try one). Watching a few titles from each format I found the MOTIONFLOW being set to LOW yielded excellent results. The fast moving action scenes do NOT get blurry whatsoever. It is really nice having a constant SHARP picture. I am still playing with the Black Frame Insertion features so more on that feature later. My convergence was also spot on or as good as it gets. The panel alignment adjusting for convergence is innovative (zone convergence) and very advanced on the VW200.

So now here comes the $14,999.00 (or possibly cheaper STREET price) question. Is it worth it? I would have to say if you have the means and do not want to wait for cheaper PJs next year (or possibly the year after) to come out with 120hz MOTIONFLOW features then the answer is YES. The answer could be YES if you enjoy watching a lot of sports. So far my movies seem like they will be vastly improved as well. The scaling in the VW200 is also top notch. I am still debating if I even need my crystalio II anymore! This PJ is better and does separate itself from the mid level PJs. But by how much depends on each individual's needs. I really liked the Black Pearl as many of you know . I liked it so much I wanted to see what the DIAMOND could do. Now that I have I really feel like I could definitely keep this PJ for a couple years and not give another thought about what is coming out in 2008! And that is coming from someone who upgrades every few weeks!

Again, I apologize for not going into more detail I will gladly post more soon. I bet other new owners will chime in soon. I really am excited at the level of performance Sony has taken their new flagship to. If anything this will lead to more performance for less in their future mid level PJs. I am seeing a level of SHARPNESS under all viewing conditions I have never seen before. And the amount of detail is astounding. I am now heading back into the "lab" so I can get to "work" testing more material...

Thanks Craig! Your level of service was excellent and I would not hesitate a second in the future to purchase from you again!

My latest settings as of July, 2008!

Iris is set to Manul with Contrast at 92.

I use Gamma Off for movies (Gamma 3 for sports)...

Depending on title Motion Flow is either OFF or on LOW (for cartoons or animated movies)...

Black Level I leave on LOW for movies and on HIGH for sports.

Color Temp I like it on Custom 2 (the Gain is higher for all 3 colors)...

Color Space is on Normal for movies and Wide for sports. Sometimes I do like Wide for some movies...

Brightness, Color, Hue are all left at 50...

Sharpness is at 40...

Film Projection is a tough one. Some movies and sports look "cool" with it on 3 (or low setting) while many times I leave it OFF.

Obviously there is not a correct way to have your settings. They are mainly subject to each owner's taste. And of course different screens should yeild different results...
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post #2 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Anyway, setting the FULL MOTION to HIGH yielded great results. It is hard to explain the look. It is very smooth looking almost like they are running right in front of you! Not an ounce of motion-blur which I really am sensitive to. The coolest aspect of this feature is no matter how fast the action got the picture remained SHARP and CLEAR. I love this feature for football in HD and will definitely work with it a lot this Sunday!

Congrats!

Two questions:

1. Does it have the really cool lighted Sony logo that I know you love.

2. I always thought that motion-blur with fast moving sports was the result of compression used by the networks, and not a function of the display. I see motion-blur on my Pio plasma and Sony Pearl. What exactly does the VW200 do to reduce and/or eliminate motion-blur.

I want a Masquerade.
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post #3 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:16 PM
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Thanks for the report. I was hoping for a much better picture than the 60. Doesn't sound like it is anywhere near worth the $15K list. Please tell us more as you spend more time with the pj.
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post #4 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I edited my post. I am very happy to report it does have the "lighted" SONY logo! More on your question number 2 after I spend more time with it.
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post #5 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I would say it does blow away the VW60 in some categories. The contrast is better. The sharpnesss with MOTIONFLOW on is very impressive which makes it stand out much more than the Black Pearl. The panel alignment with ZONE adjusting allows you to get spot on convergence. Some categories are closer but don't fool yourself. There is a reason this PJ has a msrp of $14,999.00. Mark H. was right when he mentioned its all in the lens. I am seeing a better image without hardly doing any tweaking so far. Once I get to "work" I will be blown away. This PJ has the potential to look like the cross between a digital and a CRT PJ... Trust me...
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post #6 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:29 PM
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Congrats, JoeRod! Youre a freaking NUT, man.

I am wondering if I might be crazy enough to do the same thing with a Marantz 11S2, for an incremental gain. 8)
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post #7 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I would say it does blow away the VW60 in some categories. The contrast is better. The sharpnesss with MOTIONFLOW on is very impressive which makes it stand out much more than the Black Pearl. The panel alignment with ZONE adjusting allows you to get spot on convergence. Some categories are closer but don't fool yourself. There is a reason this PJ has a msrp of $14,999.00. Mark H. was right when he mentioned its all in the lens. I am seeing a better image without hardly doing any tweaking so far. Once I get to "work" I will be blown away. This PJ has the potential to look like the cross between a digital and a CRT PJ... Trust me...

Did you measure the contrast and calibrate to d65 yet?? What are the measurements compared to the BP? Thanks!

I have seen motionflow on the Qualia XBR and did not notice much of a difference so that 'feature' does not interest me in the least unless it is that much more noticeable from 52 to 96.
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post #8 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:41 PM
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Even without the thing on it looks damn nice!
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post #9 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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That is not a great pic to. As you can see I was just trying to hurry up and get it up so I could turn it on. I will organize my wires later...
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post #10 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I have not had a chance to measure anything yet. I am breaking it in as I post this. I was watching some Chronicles of Narnia from StarZHD and was absolutely blown away. As I posted before I am seeing a level of sharpness under all viewing conditions I have never seen before. And the amount of detail is astounding. I am seeing a Black Level I did not see with the VW60 or any other PJ I owned before. UnderWorld Evolution in HD just knocked my socks off! And I have not even begun to scratch (tweak) the surface!

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post #11 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 05:59 PM
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Both Joe and I sourced our machine from Craig. Craig is just a few hour drive from me & knowing this would be a slow roll out I did not want to wait and did not mind the drive. Joe beat me to the punch and got his up and running first
Like Joe I have not had very much time with the projector but more will come over the weekend including a few screen caps.
I still have my Ruby & I spent time with the VW60 so I have a good reference to compare. Ive always felt the Ruby had a richer pallet over the VW60. The VW100 had a few circuits that were removed from the 50 & 60 and I do not know if that accounted for what I was seeing.
I have to say anyone coming from CRT to digital is going to love this thing. Convergence was dead on out of box, very impressive. But the zone convergence is amazing. Never thought we would see anything like it on a digital. The colors are very rich on the 200 and the black level is deep. Unlike Joe I have not done to much viewing with HD video content but have focused most of my time so far with movie material sourced from BD at 24hz. I was always concerned with the slight ringing associated with the VW100 but I can say the 200 has none. A nice smooth image that does not introduce any EE. She takes 24hz just fine. I also tried 48 but it displayed it as 50hz in the information menu and stutterd so 60 & 24 are its preferred vertical scan rate. Using the blank frame insertion works great and I love it. There are 3 settings. Each one drops the light output by a noticeable amount but also improving black level. I preferred using #1. It does add the same flicker you would see at the theater. It is not noticeable in the dark scenes but you can see it in the bright picture area. While I am a film buff and love it I am sure there will be some who will choose to bypass this feature. For myself it brings me one step closer to film but you do lose a chunk of brightness using it but to me its very cool!
Combine the BFI with use of the dynamic iris and you have one rich image with great black level. Brightness is on par with the VW100.
Another thing I am happy about. When I visited the service menu in the VW60 all the goodies I was use to seeing in the VW100 were missing. The VW200 has them all. This will allow some experimenting for those brave enough to operate on their 16k projector.
I did try HD video for a few minutes and threw on the 120hz feature. I did see some breaking up of some letters when set to low almost as if it was not able to keep up with the motion but set to High it was unreal. I agree with Joe this machine has a few tricks up its sleeve and kicks butt with some fresh features.
It also offers all the needed aspect ratios for using a anamorphic lens and dont forget it has the Color Management. It really performs like a CRT FP.
Ill post more through out the weekend and grab a few screen shots.


Look at that finish. Sony knows how to make a good looking projector.
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post #12 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

Congrats, JoeRod! Youre a freaking NUT, man.

I am wondering if I might be crazy enough to do the same thing with a Marantz 11S2, for an incremental gain. 8)

No more 15S1
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post #13 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 07:48 PM
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wow, it sure is pretty!
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post #14 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 08:20 PM
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Not likely to happen, Spizz, unless Dan Miller gets my dealer to give me a really good deal on an "upgrade." 8)

Very happy with the 15S1. 8)
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post #15 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 09:19 PM
 
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Quote:


I am seeing a Black Level I did not see with the VW60 or any other PJ I owned before.

I'll certainly be curious to see some calibrated measurements now that the VW200 is in the wild. But, just to temper some of the above comments, which I feel is a bit more than a little self justification, I saw the VW200 at CEDIA and I own the VW60. I don't consider the VW200 will measure appreciably better contrast or black level than the VW60. The SXRD panels are the same and even Sony publishes contrast as the same as the VW60.

The Zeiss lens will give better focus edge to edge and corner to corner with less chromatic aberration (the VW60 doesn't exhibit chromatic aberration either), but not better contrast. Despite the doubling of the wattage of the Xenon lamp over the UHP in the VW60, the real advantage here is the color of the light and the resulting accuracy of the projected color. UHP is a more efficient light source than Xenon, so the overall brightness is much closer than the wattage of the lamps would indicate.

Point zone panel alignment is a very nice feature, assuming it is necessary. Although there was some adjustment of the red panel necessary in my VW60, it was of by the same amount over the entire image so the simple vertical/horizontal adjustment in the VW60 dialed in the panel alignment perfectly.

That leaves 120 Hz Motionflow, which I do consider an interesting feature Sony has developed. Under certain circumstances, I did see considerable difference in image blur. I will say however that after a brief look at CEDIA, and a rather more in depth look at this fearture on a Sony rear projection and flat panel at dealer training before CEDIA, I do not consider the result of Motionflow to be completely natural looking. The jury is still out on Motionflow for me.

Not trying to piss in anyone's corn flakes here, but Sony is offering a better lens, a three times more expensive lamp, and some fancier digital processing for an additional $10,000. I think we should wait for some objective testing to see what that $10K is really buying. To my eye, it isn't that much, but then again, I think Mercedes Benz is over-priced.
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post #16 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

But, just to temper some of the above comments, which I feel is a bit more than a little self justification


Isn't that post Robert a little self justification for not getting the VW200 (j/k)

Quote:


Point zone panel alignment is a very nice feature, assuming it is necessary.

Considering the mis-convergence that the JVC has with the HD1 and the fact that while the center part of the image was converged the outer areas were not on the JVC. Therefore this option on the Sony offers a piece of mind and pretty much a guarantee that perfect convergence is achievable on the VW200. One less thing to worry about.
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post #17 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I felt the same way until I actually was able to start tweaking one in my own setting. I just played around with Live Free Die Hard on Blu ray and Alan is right. 1080p/24 looks great. I was also pleasantly surprised how well Die Hard (the first one) was able to look. Then afterwards I watched a little of the Jazz/Lakers game on ESPN HD. I went into FULL mode with the MOTIONFLOW. It does look somewhat like a home video at times. I will say however the picture was 100% sharp the entire time. No motion-blur anywhere. Not even from the ball! Contrast should be about the same as the VW60 but when you add the frame insertion it changes drastically on the VW200. I so far like the MODE 2 better or MODE 3. I know Alan likes MODE 1 but to me it does darken the picture to a level where I have to make a lot more adjustments to make up for it. I will play around with it tomorrow. I have also struggled deciding which GAMMA as well. The past couple of Sony pjs GAMMA 3 has been the winner. I am not so sure with the VW200. I need a good weekend to play with it. Thank God it's Friday!

Again, if you are happy with the VW60 then there is no urgency to jump to the VW200. These features will start showing up in either the next gen or the one after. The Black Pearl puts out one heck of an image especially with Blu ray or HD DVD.

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post #18 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 10:00 PM
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The contrast, black level and color are very CRT like.
I choose these caps to show off the richness of the image. Nothing is dialed in yet.
Still playing and learning the machine.

Joe glad to see you having fun




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post #19 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

I'll certainly be curious to see some calibrated measurements now that the VW200 is in the wild... I don't consider the VW200 will measure appreciably better contrast or black level than the VW60. ...

A few weeks ago,Cine4Home posted 6,000:1 off, 8,500:1 on, 40,000:1 DI d65 calibrated on a pre prod unit. If those numbers hold up they would be > 50% to > 100% better contrast than his VW60 measurements! Also lets remember that while the Ruby and Pearl also had the same CR specs, the Ruby also measured ~50% greater d65 calibrated on/off contrast than the Pearl .
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post #20 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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And I think Alan and I are seeing that!

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post #21 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Well, I am really shocked (and delighted) to start the New Sony VW200 thread. This PJ represents a few firsts for me. For one as far as I know I may be the first (end-user) to get the U.S. version VW200. I have Craig Shumer of THEATERMAX (732) 616-1010 to thank for that! It also is the first Sony flagship PJ I have ever owned. And finally it is (or most likely will be) the first STICKY thread I have ever had here at AVS!

Thanks Craig! Your level of service was excellent and I would not hesitate a second in the future to purchase from you again!

sound and vision mag had an article on barry sonnenfelds telluride home theater which has been sporting a 'vw200' since late september/early october, as far as i can tell. i was so jealous! (of the house location moreso than his theater).

im guessing it must have been a preproduction model. combined w his film industry influence.(?)
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post #22 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 11:03 PM
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AWESOME screen shots Alan from that W200 projector. I think that will have to be the next one I "sample" after the G-90 comes down!!



[quote=Alan Gouger;12366700]The contrast, black level and color are very CRT like.
I choose these caps to show off the richness of the image. Nothing is dialed in yet.
Still playing and learning the machine.

Joe glad to see you having fun

Thanks!!

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bttek@bellsouth.net
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post #23 of 2114 Old 11-30-2007, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Westgate, or it could have been a Japanese version. I had a few people (dealers) over the past several weeks offer me one of them for purchase. I did not want to have to deal with any warranty issues so I waited to get an official U.S. version. It was worth the wait!

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post #24 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 05:04 AM
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In case you folks don't know, Sony's internal codename for the VW60 is "Amethyst" and for VW200 it's "Diamond".

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #25 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks pteittinen. I will make the adjustments...
I also received a couple of emails telling me that overnite...

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post #26 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to be out (a meeting) for the rest of today (Saturday) but I will definitely be posting my thoughts tomorrow while watching the NFL in HD. I can't wait to see how good those CBS games will be with MOTIONFLOW. I will also try out some HD DVD titles and Blu ray of course.

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post #27 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

In case you folks don't know, Sony's internal codename for the VW60 is "Amethyst" and for VW200 it's "Diamond".

the vw 60 is the amethyst yes but i think the diamond is not the vw 200 its
a new pr. that will replace the qualia next year.
sony told me that some months ago.
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post #28 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I was told by someone at Sony that it is indeed their Diamond. Once we get confirmation either way I will edit (if needed) the thread. I have also received a few emails telling me it is the Diamond. It would make sense since Rubys are Red aren't they?

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post #29 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 09:54 AM
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It seems you have only watched HD sources. How does it look on standard definition DVD?
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post #30 of 2114 Old 12-01-2007, 10:01 AM
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Why not call VW200 by its name, VW200.
VW60 - the Pearl replacement
VW200 - the Ruby replacement
VW xxx - the Qualia 004 replacement
I doubt VW200 is a Qualia replacement, the VW200 is not bright enough to qualify for that. The VW xxx must be something that is bright enough to compete with 3DLP.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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