Marantz VP-11S2 - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Alan, Any comments about the noise level with the CW where you liked it?

There is a relatively small increase in noise as the wheel speed goes faster. It really isn't significant. There doesn't appear to be any differnce in PQ that I can see just a reduction in RBE potential.

As a reference point my perception of noise level is that the 11s2 (Eco) is a bit louder than the HD1 (Eco) and less noisy than the Sim2 HT380. Going from JVC to the 11S2 I don't find the noise difference a problem. YMMV

For those wanting silent or near silent I guess mono DLP isn't the solution.

D
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

There is a relatively small increase in noise as the wheel speed goes faster. It really isn't significant. There doesn't appear to be any differnce in PQ that I can see just a reduction in RBE potential.

As a reference point my perception of noise level is that the 11s2 (Eco) is a bit louder than the HD1 (Eco) and less noisy than the Sim2 HT380. Going from JVC to the 11S2 I don't find the noise difference a problem. YMMV

For those wanting silent or near silent I guess mono DLP isn't the solution.

D

Thanks, Daz. Noise is an issue for me since the pj is only ~ 2 ft from my (and wife's) head. The RS1 in low lamp mode is no problem, but I find it not good if I go to high lamp. So the 11S2 in low lamp mode is noiser than the RS1/HD1 in its low lamp, but probably not as loud as the RS1 in high lamp; is that right? It 'sounds' like it will just have to something I try out (if I were to go the 11S2 direction).
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:04 PM
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Can someone who owns the VP11s2 do me a favor?

Use the Blanking feature of the projector and tell me if it has enough top and bottom blanking to overlay on top of the bars of a 2.35 to 1 aspect movie.

The blanking should be a value of absolute 0 to the projector, and should allow it to mask the 2.35 bars with a blacker boarder then the movies provide witch are usually not absolute black.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:15 PM
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SOWK,

I will check it out for you later today when I am up there next but for the most part the top and bottom 2.35 bars are as black as the unfilled bars to the side of my 2.35 screen when I use squeeze (which should be as black as blanked bars will be.)

Its pretty damn black on a black screen.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:19 PM
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Bill, if you remember my projector is about 4' to 5' over the head, directly behind, of my preferred seating area and the noise in normal is noticeable when there is no movie playing but completely not noticeable with movies.

It seems more quiet at that distance than my X360 which is a bit further away on my shelf.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

Bill, if you remember my projector is about 4' to 5' over the head, directly behind, of my preferred seating area and the noise in normal is noticeable when there is no movie playing but completely not noticeable with movies.

It seems more quiet at that distance than my X360 which is a bit further away on my shelf.

Yes, Mike, I certainly don't remember the noise of your Marantz being an issue when I visited. When I really get ready to do an update, I'm just going to have to get whatever I get from AVS and their 30-day 'approval period'. I'm sure a RS2 (or RS3 by the time I'm ready!) would not be a problem, so the only question would be if I wanted to switch to a dlp; if so, the Marantz seems to be among the quietest of these.
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:31 PM
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There definitely are good reasons to buy from AVS. You should probably just have the RS2 AND the 11S2 sent to your home so you can compare them both and then send the other one back for a refund within 30 days, or maybe Jason will have a demo RS2 floating around he can send you with an 11S2. 8)
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

There definitely are good reasons to buy from AVS. You should probably just have the RS2 AND the 11S2 sent to your home so you can compare them both and then send the other one back for a refund within 30 days, or maybe Jason will have a demo RS2 floating around he can send you with an 11S2. 8)

Yes, something like this. Though the RS1 is really so good, that I may hold out for the RS3 and 15S2!
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:14 PM
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Hey Bill,

I sometimes wish I could have felt the same way as you do. You might want to hold out for as long as you can before you see the 11S2, then, because you probably dont want to be tempted too soon.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Thanks, Daz. Noise is an issue for me since the pj is only ~ 2 ft from my (and wife's) head. The RS1 in low lamp mode is no problem, but I find it not good if I go to high lamp. So the 11S2 in low lamp mode is noiser than the RS1/HD1 in its low lamp, but probably not as loud as the RS1 in high lamp; is that right? It 'sounds' like it will just have to something I try out (if I were to go the 11S2 direction).

Hi Bill

At the momment both are about 2-3' from my head. Noise can be pretty subjective and affected my the room so one man's meat...

With the 11S1 in eco and 4/5x wheel speed there isn't a significant difference in noise level between the units with the JVC having the advantage. The 6x speed adds a little more noise but again nothing significant to my ears. Both units produce more noise in their normal lamp modes. YMMV.

I've owned the Sony Pearl and that PJ is quieter but not silent. So again each of us will need to decide what area to compromise in selecting the best product to meet our individual requirements and budget.

Best to see/hear them first hand.

D
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:54 AM
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Cat you get a chance?

but you may not be the best person to ask anyhow. as you like your image very Black.


I will be using a 1.3 (white) gain. So I may see a difference.

Shoot, if if a can't, then I woun't be needing to spend $3500 on a Masking system any time soon.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:21 AM
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SOWK, sorry did not get a chance. Have been really busy lately and have had hardly any recent time up there.

Ill be busy with contractors again today but do have a couple of games to watch so I will try to sneak in there to take a look at the blanking. Like I said before though, you wont need it because the blacks are so black. You can not differentiate the black from the top bottom 2.35 bars to the black from the non projected on "squeezed" image.

A pure black screen is black, not grey. 8) Of course that is on my HCG grey screen. I would pass on the masking system and get 2.35 setup instead, if you dont already have one. You wont need the masking - not for the black bars being distracting, anyways.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:38 AM
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I am really picky about 1:1 mapping.

An anamorphic lens, will take me out of 1:1 mapping, and very slightly distort and add some minor CA.

Plus I hear it can somehow effect Ansi Contrast a little as well.

I would not go 2.35 until they physically make a 2.35 panel projector that will still display 1.85 at Native 1920X1080

So it would have to have more horizontal resolution.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

movies provide witch are usually not absolute black.


I have never seen black bars that aren't absolute black.

Here's why:

Remember that all of these formats (MPEG, VC1, H264, etc) are designed at their core to reduce bit space. When there are black bars in a film, they aren ignored by the codec. Generally when you look at the data stream (and this is particularly true of HD formats), you will see something like a resolution of 1920 x 812 in a 1.78 aspect ratio. The black bars are generated by the player.

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Old 03-02-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I am really picky about 1:1 mapping.

An anamorphic lens, will take me out of 1:1 mapping, and very slightly distort and add some minor CA.

Plus I hear it can somehow effect Ansi Contrast a little as well.

I would not go 2.35 until they physically make a 2.35 panel projector that will still display 1.85 at Native 1920X1080

So it would have to have more horizontal resolution.

Agreed on all of these points.

You won't care. Trust me. The positive benefits of the lens so far outweighs the downsides that you won't bother even looking for the issues. Ask ANYONE who owns one.

In addition there are some really picky people in the industry who for years have preached exactly what you are saying that have recently changed their tune after spending some time with it.

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Old 03-02-2008, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Miller View Post

I have never seen black bars that aren't absolute black.

Here's why:

Remember that all of these formats (MPEG, VC1, H264, etc) are designed at their core to reduce bit space. When there are black bars in a film, they aren ignored by the codec. Generally when you look at the data stream (and this is particularly true of HD formats), you will see something like a resolution of 1920 x 812 in a 1.78 aspect ratio. The black bars are generated by the player.

Well can you at least tell me if the blanking has enough to overlay the 2.35 or 2.40 black bars.

I have done this with many projectors before and the lumagen HDP when I had it.

I was the actual person that brought it up to Pat at lumagen, and is why we have it today with their VP's.

Every single time it made the "black" Bars Darker.

And this was over a long period of time in witch I had plenty of different players.

I, as stated, no longer have the lumagen HDP, and I'm sure the Marantz Blanking feature will still produce Darker Black boarders if it has the capability.

You can try it yourself if you want.

Pick any movie with a very dark scene in it, Pause the movie with out the blanking, then with, and you will see the "Bars" get darker. Making the dark scenes POP a lot more.

I guess if I don't get an answer I'll just find out myself next weekend when I actually own the unit.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:03 AM
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With our projector, since the blanking control can do nothing to make a pixel that is "off" be any more "off", and if you set your black level control so that black bars are "off" (and they should be-- you will find out that when using a test pattern on a DVD or BD (the only commercially available one is DVE-HD or the one on Ratatouille) that the brightness (black level) control will be either 0 or -1, and that level will coincide EXACTLY to the point where the pixels on black bars turn off), then the blacking control will have no effect. Really. But you'll see.

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Old 03-02-2008, 11:24 AM
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Dan,

Can you comment where the big improvement in CR this unit is achieving comes from? It would appear to share the same dual iris setup as the 15S1 and I am guessing the rest of the light path is the same as well, with the exception of the color wheel and the DC4 chip. TI only claimed a 30% improvement in CR with DC4 vs. DC3, yet the 11S2 is more like 2.5 to 3X better than the 11S1 or 15S1. Can you speculate how much improvement is due to the DC4 chip? Congratulations by the way, you have really surprised some folks here with this unit.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Miller View Post

With our projector, since the blanking control can do nothing to make a pixel that is "off" be any more "off", and if you set your black level control so that black bars are "off" (and they should be-- you will find out that when using a test pattern on a DVD or BD (the only commercially available one is DVE-HD or the one on Ratatouille) that the brightness (black level) control will be either 0 or -1, and that level will coincide EXACTLY to the point where the pixels on black bars turn off), then the blacking control will have no effect. Really. But you'll see.

Well I still would like to know if it has the blanking ability to do the overlay?

Because Every player I used apperently still sent out 1 IRE black or higher then off I guess.

Will you at least try it in the dark scene? Or better yet try it with full image 0 IRE test pattern. You should see that the blanking still for whatever reason still produces a darker black.

the blanking should be completly off, from the player it should be off, but as you will find out its not "off" from the player.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:34 AM
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Ill get to it for you tonight, SOWK.

Ive got some contractors going right now but hope to be able to settle down for the mavs/lakers and rockets/nuggets later on today and will check in there before I settle down.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:42 AM
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Catdaddy, do you have a test disk with a full frame 0 IRE?

If so try it and let everyone know if I'm just full of poo or not. LOL

You should see the blanking darker then the 0 IRE comming out of the player.

Also still check to see if it has enough to mask 2.35 and 2.40.

Thank you.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:48 AM
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Ive got DVE HD.

Ill check them out, but it really is black you know. I dont even use an ND filter anymore. 8)
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:


Generally when you look at the data stream (and this is particularly true of HD formats), you will see something like a resolution of 1920 x 812 in a 1.78 aspect ratio. The black bars are generated by the player.

DVD, HD DVD and BD do not support this. The bars are encoded into the video and are not generated by the player. Some of the HD DVDs from Europe have black bars at higher levels than 16.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

DVD, HD DVD and BD do not support this. The bars are encoded into the video and are not generated by the player. Some of the HD DVDs from Europe have black bars at higher levels than 16.

Thank you. I know that with the lumagen masking, the 2.35 bars got quite a bit darker.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:19 PM
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I just did some testing with the 11S2 and a Radiance. Interesting results. With the projector alone, I am able to track the grayscale relatively well, but not perfect. The gamma also varies a decent amount, and as stated the colors are not correct. However, with the addition of the Radiance, my results were near perfect. Needless to say this is 1 killer combo!

Colors Before:


Colors After:


Color Temperature Before:


Color Temperature After:


Gamma After Calibration:


All settings before are projector alone (after itself was calibrated), and all settings after are with Radiance adjustments.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:27 PM
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Did you get a change to check the contrast on this unit as well?

Are they all tracking close to the same.

TWC Milwaukee - HTPC with Windows Media Center
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:31 PM
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So far CatDaddy's was the best, but all are still better than any other DLP's to date.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:36 PM
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still about 12,000:1 though?

TWC Milwaukee - HTPC with Windows Media Center
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:37 PM
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They have varied...some over 10k, some slightly under 10k (I didn't document them so I don't have specific measurements).
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:50 PM
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Wow, Jason, those are impressive measurements you got with the Radiance. Just another $4K to the bill, I guess. (But then I guess you need a good colorimeter in order to make the necessary measurements to use the Radiance, ..... .) Whew.
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