Marantz VP-11S2 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I am so tempted to buy one for myself, but I just redid my room. It's weird, I do this for a living and install stuff all the time, but I HATE doing it in my own home! Go figure.

I hear you on that one...I think that we are all like that regardless of our profession that after spending all day working at something the thought of of spending our free time -- what little we have -- on the same thing is completely overwhelming.

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post #182 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 07:54 AM
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No kidding!

I didn't take the full range of measurements because I was under the gun to finish it.
But at max contrast, I still got about 349 lumens. Now that isn't huge, but good enough for a dedicated room with a reasonable screen. The thing that will tell you is how good the black levels are!

I should have measured Iris 2 contrast and light output, as that level might just be the sweet spot for many folks (I would guess around 550 and 8000:1...but that is just a guess).
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post #183 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 08:06 AM
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Jason,

Thanks for all the info you sent on it last night. 8)

What throw do you think you had on it when you took the measurements? How far from how big a screen if that is easier. I know you got a lot going on and I appreciate all your work on it!

Cant wait to get it. 8)
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post #184 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 08:12 AM
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No problem. The max measurements for on/off were at long throw, and the max light was at short. However, I did take some ranges and even at the short throw, the contrast was over 10000:1...so it didn't change all that much.
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post #185 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 08:21 AM
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Very nice. 8)

Putting together the numbers based on what we know and how they track then:

IRIS 1

Short throw: ~400 lumens >10000 CR
Long throw: 349 lumens 11800 CR (Max calibrated CR)

IRIS 3

short throw: 762 lumens (Max calibrated brightness)
long throw: ~700 lumens

Measured numbers not shows as approximations. 8)
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post #186 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 08:22 AM
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So when you say super black level, are we talking RS1 level? RS2 level (doubtful).

-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --
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post #187 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 10:49 AM
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These numbers suggest that the DC4 chip offers some fairly profound performance advantages, and not just the incremental improvements that had been suggested.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #188 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron View Post

So when you say super black level, are we talking RS1 level? RS2 level (doubtful).

I think it's about 2/3 the CR of the RS1; by far the best of any dlp so far.
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post #189 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 11:01 AM
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Yeah I see that it has a pretty darn good contrast ratio, but that takes into account the brightness etc. I was just wondering how deep the actual black was. I know they correlate.

-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --
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post #190 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 01:12 PM
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Wow. Those numbers really surprised me. I wasn't expecting something that was this good.

Great ANSI and really good on/off.

I would love to hear what Greg Rogers has to say after reviewing one.

Greg?

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post #191 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Spizz-

I didn't void the warranty by removing the foot. AT THAT TIME, three months ago, had I not removed the foot, I could have done a swap. NOW, Marantz has changed its policy and will no longer issue RMAs for out of the box defective projectors. This is according to Rich at AVS. Incidentally, I replaced the bottom of the chassis so the unit is like new, defective out of the box, sitting three months to get repaired, with no idea when the parts wil come in to fix it.

catdaddy-

Yes. I bought it from AVS. Rich is now fighting with Marantz to get an RMA to return my unit for a new one given the length of time to get it repaired, or unrepaired. So far, no dice.

I think their should be a separate post set up called reliability and service where people report problems they have had with their projectors and how well the various companies responded to these problems.
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post #192 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 01:46 PM
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There has not been any policy change for DOA projectors. We just verify now, due to the number of "no problem found" returns.

Dan Miller
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post #193 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 01:54 PM
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[quote=coldmachine;12989775]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post


The Marantz VP suite is cleaner. Pixel mapped sources were the same. Its not just what chip is used but how its implemented and how that integrates with the machine.

It also benefits from superior optics.

Where did you set the gamma on the RS2? Greg Rogers reported that when he set an extremely high Gamma on the RS2, that the sharpness was as good as the best ANSI 875/1 DLP that he had ever tested.
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post #194 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:01 PM
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Awesome numbers on the 11S2!

Are they using any kind of light attenuation, either a dynamic iris or pulsing to achieve that? or is it a straight up native CR?

If so, this is probably the best projector out there regardless of price.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #195 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Awesome numbers on the 11S2!

Are they using any kind of light attenuation, either a dynamic iris or pulsing to achieve that? or is it a straight up native CR?

If so, this is probably the best projector out there regardless of price.

No DI and no lamp modulation.

D
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post #196 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:20 PM
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Dan Miller
How much credit do you/Marantz want to take for the great contrast numbers?
Can you put in perspective of how much DC4 improves contrast in 11s2 compared to if you had used a DC3? I ask since credible people are reporting DC4 is a modest improvement and the numbers for 11s2 is not a modest improvement.

Jason Turk
The genii (spelling?) is out of the bottle. Did you measure the contrast numbers reflected off a screen or with the proble facing the lens? What were the values and units for white and black?

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post #197 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:31 PM
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All natural - steroid free. 8)

If you follow historical measured performance of the iris settings, it still leaves a relatively (to other DLPs in best contrast mode) very high CR in iris 3, too .. at 700-800 lumens.

Definitely well worth its price point. Im having to navigate some very rough waters with my wife right now, having bought my 4th projector in about 2 years, but Im hoping in a week or two it will be water under the bridge and Ill have me a VP11S2 in my HT.

A week, or two, from now it will be worth it .. its hell right now. 8(
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post #198 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:41 PM
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Catdaddy67
Does Marantz mention anything in documentation about using digital pulse control of the lamp to improve black level performance?

Mattias Ohlson
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post #199 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlang46 View Post

Where did you set the gamma on the RS2? Greg Rogers reported that when he set an extremely high Gamma on the RS2, that the sharpness was as good as the best ANSI 875/1 DLP that he had ever tested.

In my RS2 review I talked about image depth as a function of gamma:

"In the past, I've seen a clear image depth advantage for the DLP projectors in those scenes, but the RS2 is now close to parity using the higher gamma."

But I said this specifically about sharpness:

"Overall, images were not quite as sharp as they are with the best single-chip 1080p DLP projectors, but color fringing on bright edges was rarely visible from normal viewing distances except on test patterns. However, a lens with better color correction would undoubtedly yield some sharpness improvement."

There was also more discussion about the RS2 sharpness, convergence, and color fringing in the review.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #200 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:


Jason Turk
The genii (spelling?) is out of the bottle. Did you measure the contrast numbers reflected off a screen or with the proble facing the lens? What were the values and units for white and black?

I dont believe Jason measures off the screen, but he measures all of his projectors consistantly the same in environment and methodology. These measures are directly relative and comparable to the measures of all his recent reviews.

I wont see the manual til tomorrow .. when my 11S2 arrives.

There is no pulsing/modulation or dynamic iris. Its a dual-iris setup with a 7 segment wheel with ND filter segment.
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post #201 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

All natural - steroid free. 8)

If you follow historical measured performance of the iris settings, it still leaves a relatively (to other DLPs in best contrast mode) very high CR in iris 3, too .. at 700-800 lumens.

Definitely well worth its price point. Im having to navigate some very rough waters with my wife right now, having bought my 4th projector in about 2 years, but Im hoping in a week or two it will be water under the bridge and Ill have me a VP11S2 in my HT.

A week, or two, from now it will be worth it .. its hell right now. 8(

I feel your pain. I ordered an HDP from AVS and am getting my RS-1 calibrated by them. Of course, I told the girlfriend that I'm going to have to send the projector in for "service - its totally covered under warranty".

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #202 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Wow. Those numbers really surprised me. I wasn't expecting something that was this good.

Great ANSI and really good on/off.

I would love to hear what Greg Rogers has to say after reviewing one.

Greg?

Dan?

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #203 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 02:54 PM
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I wonder how long before we see a 15S2, i.e., a brighter but less hand-selected-component version of the 11S2 (and at < $)?
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post #204 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 03:39 PM
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It is better to be honest with your spouse. I dont know why I tried to deceive her .. since she is such a fun and generous, loving human being.
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post #205 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 03:52 PM
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Why do you people bother having wives? No wife>No WAF
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post #206 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Why do you people bother having wives? No wife>No WAF


and mine (although I'm not married yet) comes from your neck of the woods - Glastonbury.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #207 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 04:16 PM
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It's not a good idea to lie to your wife, or even half truths, with regards to our projector purchases.

Catdaddy and I know what can happen. Personally, I'm lucky by testicles are not in a pickle jar.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #208 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 05:11 PM
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In complete agreement with you, David. Me too. 8(
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post #209 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Why do you people bother having wives? No wife>No WAF

ROTFLMAO...that said, it is MOST interesting that all/most have the same issues wrt their girlfriends/wives/etc...the one thing that I do not understand -- and I may get blasted for this -- is why is it such a problem to buy a projector, even once a year, because when you do the math the amount expended BECAUSE OF SWMBO (i.e. clothes, decorating, diners, kitchens, purses, shoes, vacations, etc.) the cost of a projector PALES in comparison...with that, it is almost as though they are paranoid that a projector purchase will diminish their free cash flow...whoa, I better stop now...

Well, one more thing...I find "being the man" and telling the truth no matter how painful is always the best course of action in the LOOOOOOOOONG run...in the short run it can be dangerous!

Later guys, have to go calibrate my projector with the newest RadianceXD firmware!

Joel
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post #210 of 1682 Old 02-07-2008, 06:44 PM
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Being a public forum that we are, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, especially when there is comments about your better half involved

Joelc, you lost me with the acronym thing, pm if necessary.

Question though, has anyone done a side by side comparison between the evenly priced (allbeit different technolgy) 11s2 vs the sony saphire? One of these two is going to end up in my house, but I have yet been able to see a a/b screening. Since they match up pretty well against each other, maybe a honest, objective shootout could be done between the two...

Do I understand correctly that the 11s2 uses the DC4? I thought that chip was not readily available.

"Unless you continually work, evolve and innovate, you'll learn a quick and painful lesson from someone who has"
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