RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 122 - AVS Forum
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post #3631 of 4252 Old 04-27-2010, 07:12 PM
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Gosh,

I have owned this projector since Feb 2008 and I have never seen it to it's potential. Avatar + RS2 = Wow.

Colours, black level and detail were awsome. I guess we don't need 3D. I certainly won't be going for it.

I am not a Constant Height guy (tried, but for various reasons I dont like it), so I didn't mind the 1.85.1 setup.

Ta

Dono
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post #3632 of 4252 Old 04-27-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

I thought the whole point of using a VP with CMS or the Video EQ Pro was that YOU CAN'T properly calibrate the RS2 family of projectors using only the UI on the projector.
And besides what difference does it make as long as the signal coming out of the projector is accurate?
Am I mis-understanding something here?

No worries, like I said I was just trying to get the most out of this projector for a friend, and maybe learn a little more about calibration. Early in this thread after Greg Rogers review of the RS 2 came out he talked of getting gamma/grayscale down to 1 or 2 Delta E's. I thought I was doing something wrong, and that maybe someone here might be able to help. My own set-up is looking pretty good with the VideoEQ Pro in the chain. I am going to a CalMAN training seminar later this year, I'll take it up with them. I am hoping to get this hobby...obsession... to pay for itself one day! Thanks for all the input, I have learned a lot at AVS over the years.BTW Avatar did look awesome!
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post #3633 of 4252 Old 04-28-2010, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegk61 View Post

No worries, like I said I was just trying to get the most out of this projector for a friend, and maybe learn a little more about calibration. Early in this thread after Greg Rogers review of the RS 2 came out he talked of getting gamma/grayscale down to 1 or 2 Delta E's. I thought I was doing something wrong, and that maybe someone here might be able to help. My own set-up is looking pretty good with the VideoEQ Pro in the chain. I am going to a CalMAN training seminar later this year, I'll take it up with them. I am hoping to get this hobby...obsession... to pay for itself one day! Thanks for all the input, I have learned a lot at AVS over the years.BTW Avatar did look awesome!

With enough time and the right equipment the RS2 can be dialed in to the desired gamma and a flat gray-scale at D65. This is not an easy or quick project. The only thing that cannot be done is fix the gammut, that will require external fixes.

Glen Carter
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post #3634 of 4252 Old 04-28-2010, 06:42 PM
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^^^^
Knowledge is good right?
I was under the impression that accurately calibrating the RS2 family with out a CMS was impossible or at least a multi-hour lesson in futility.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #3635 of 4252 Old 04-28-2010, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

With enough time and the right equipment the RS2 can be dialed in to the desired gamma and a flat gray-scale at D65. This is not an easy or quick project. The only thing that cannot be done is fix the gammut, that will require external fixes.

Glen I was thinking my on screen display was contaminating my readings. I was going to try taking a series of measurements then estimate how far I need to move "RGB" sliders for specific ire point, move them, save, then back out of OSD and remeasure. Does this sound right, is this where all the time is spent? Will the eye one pro spectro be accurate enough for this? Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. Doug G.
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post #3636 of 4252 Old 04-30-2010, 05:45 PM
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After 30 some hours. Numerous phone calls, endless nights, I think I have my JVC DLA RS2 calibrated. And I am pleased with the results

Would I say it was easy, nope. I know why ISF calibraters get $500 and up to do this.

I did this with CalMAN Enthusiast, a videoEQ Pro and a ColorMunki. My projector is about 13 ft 4 inches away throwing on Da Lite 119 screen. I actually have the pictured scaled down about a foot all around for a slightly brighter picture. And values around 10IRE and 20IRE are just non- existence. The ColorMunki just doesn't reach that far.

Any comments would be appreciated. Any questions and I will try to help. And I don't know why the RGB color balance shows what it shows, SpectraCal was confused as well. If any of you want my CalMAN saved CDF file, I'd be happy to do so.

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post #3637 of 4252 Old 04-30-2010, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegk61 View Post

Glen I was thinking my on screen display was contaminating my readings. I was going to try taking a series of measurements then estimate how far I need to move "RGB" sliders for specific ire point, move them, save, then back out of OSD and remeasure. Does this sound right, is this where all the time is spent? Will the eye one pro spectro be accurate enough for this? Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. Doug G.

Doug, my situation is getting gamma and grayscale as accurate as possible. My microspec can take readings without the OSD affecting the readings. The time is with all the interaction between the different input levels (5,10..20...) and the changes in luminance level and the x,y trying to reach target points.

You can always take a reading with a full white field or window, then a reading with the OSD and see if there is a difference. Target a part of the screen where there is no difference in the readings.

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post #3638 of 4252 Old 05-01-2010, 12:48 AM
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Hagar your "RGB" color balance showing on this graph is for your 0 ire measurement. The 0 ire is highlighted at the bottom of screen shot. This particular graph shows only your last measurement, or last highlighted measurement. Take a look at your "RGB" level tracking graph for the over all picture. BTW if you load the saved session and click on any of the other ire % points you will see the "RGB" color balance chart for each level one at a time. Doug G.
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post #3639 of 4252 Old 05-01-2010, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

Doug, my situation is getting gamma and grayscale as accurate as possible. My microspec can take readings without the OSD affecting the readings. The time is with all the interaction between the different input levels (5,10..20...) and the changes in luminance level and the x,y trying to reach target points.

You can always take a reading with a full white field or window, then a reading with the OSD and see if there is a difference. Target a part of the screen where there is no difference in the readings.

Thanks Glen, I will keep these tips in mind the next time I try to calibrate.
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post #3640 of 4252 Old 05-03-2010, 11:05 AM
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Have you gotten your projector calibrated and if so, what was the brightness you were able to obtain?

Looking at my RS2 report several post up, I have a Y (capital Y) brightness level of 6.06. Which according to several calibrators seems low. (really low)

So I have my projector running on high and still can't get over 6 fl.

I'm not sure how I could calibrate to get a brighter screen? I've tried using the projector Gamma from 2.2 to 2.5. And 2.5 Gamma seems to be dark but supposedly closer to the 2.25.

Could it be the projector?

Oh I'm not shooting on a 119 inch screen anymore, I reduce the image closer to 100" diagonal.

Any thoughts?

Dave
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post #3641 of 4252 Old 05-04-2010, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post

Have you gotten your projector calibrated and if so, what was the brightness you were able to obtain?

Looking at my RS2 report several post up, I have a Y (capital Y) brightness level of 6.06. Which according to several calibrators seems low. (really low)

So I have my projector running on high and still can't get over 6 fl.

I'm not sure how I could calibrate to get a brighter screen? I've tried using the projector Gamma from 2.2 to 2.5. And 2.5 Gamma seems to be dark but supposedly closer to the 2.25.

Could it be the projector?

Oh I'm not shooting on a 119 inch screen anymore, I reduce the image closer to 100" diagonal.

Any thoughts?

Dave

Hey Dave,

I had a very similar situation to you. My Pioneer FPJ1 was projecting on a 110" screen with a bulb that has around 500 hours on it. Lft was really low... I think around 2. I actually think it may be my meter that's bad. I have a new on coming in the next day or two. I will try to measure it again, and let you know what I come up with.

That said, when I watch anything on it, it looks plenty bright so I'm assuming it is the meter.
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post #3642 of 4252 Old 05-05-2010, 08:38 AM
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Getting good (I think) at understanding this CalMAN 3.7.

I was hoping fellow RS2/Pioneer PRO-FPJ1 would look at the "Y"(mines 5.6 and and it should be in the 12-14 range) in CalMAN and tell me what you got. Otherwise, I'm down to removing the VideoEQ, Octava splitter and trying to hook directly into my RS2 to see IF any including my Panasonic PD60 or even my Pioneer 1018 receiver could be causing my FL to be low.

And again, otherwise, I've contacted JVC and its going back for repair and then I'm hoping they might find when they replaced the focus block, they left something in that's causing this.

This report was done at 2.5 Gamma in my RS2, the other was done at 2.2 Gamma in the RS2.

But the VideoEQ negates the internal Gamma by adjusting to the target gamma I set of 2.25 in CalMAN



[IMG][/IMG]

Big kudo's to Ray Coronado. He's a ISF/THX certified calibrator who has taken the time to mentor me in the CalMAN ways and helped immensely.
You can see his outstanding home theater at http://www.socalht.com/ray/.

Thanks Ray.

I came to the party a little late, hope enough RS2/Pioneer PRO-FPJ1 are still around.

Dave
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post #3643 of 4252 Old 05-13-2010, 08:40 AM
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I'm and avid reader and tinkerer. I've tried tweaks and recommendations and thought I had a nice picture on my Pioneer PRO-FPJ1. However, as a birthday present, my wife who knows nothing about home theater except to look in my magazines lying around the house gave me a present of an ISF certified calibration. Chad Billheimer (hdtvbychadb.com) came over yesterday and 4.5 hours later I was blown away! IMHO you can't beat a professional calibration. I highly recommend Chad for his meticulous work and knowledge.
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post #3644 of 4252 Old 05-13-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hts1 View Post

I'm and avid reader and tinkerer. I've tried tweaks and recommendations and thought I had a nice picture on my Pioneer PRO-FPJ1. However, as a birthday present, my wife who knows nothing about home theater except to look in my magazines lying around the house gave me a present of an ISF certified calibration. Chad Billheimer (hdtvbychadb.com) came over yesterday and 4.5 hours later I was blown away! IMHO you can't beat a professional calibration. I highly recommend Chad for his meticulous work and knowledge.

Thanks for the kind words!
By the way, I got around 6.9 fL after calibration in movie mode. I made a "day" mode with slightly less accurate color and gamma that I nudged up above 7 fL. This was with an i1Pro meter factory recertified 2 weeks ago pointed at the screen.
I see many others are getting similar numbers, and other FPJ1's I've done in the past have been in that general range.

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post #3645 of 4252 Old 05-13-2010, 01:03 PM
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Greetings

Not a number I usually pay attention to. My own Pioneer measures about 11 fL after calibration on a Dalite Cinema Vision 1.3 screen at 102" Just took a shot of it.

Measured from my Minolta CS200 spectro.

regards

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The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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post #3646 of 4252 Old 05-13-2010, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

Not a number I usually pay attention to. My own Pioneer measures about 11 fL after calibration on a Dalite Cinema Vision 1.3 screen at 102" Just took a shot of it.

Measured from my Minolta CS200 spectro.

regards

There is a huge difference between 11 and 6.9 ft-l even trying to ignor the number game.
I assume it was the screen size difference.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

Custom dedicated 8 seat theater

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post #3647 of 4252 Old 05-14-2010, 11:32 AM
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Hagar,

What kind of Da-lite screen do you have, matt white, HCCV, hp, etc.?

Thanks.
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post #3648 of 4252 Old 05-15-2010, 09:03 PM
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Its a matt white 1.0 gain.

By the way, in case anyone is interested, I've sent my projector back to JVC for the light issue. It might look great, the calibration may look good, but it was still way to dim and I couldn't put my finger on it till I got CalMan and started doing these calibrations.

So I'll find out Monday if JVC is going to pony up (if its the bulb) a new bulb. They generally only cover lamps for 90 days and I'm about 120 days into it with only 120 so hours.

Come on Monday...
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post #3649 of 4252 Old 05-17-2010, 03:19 AM
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Does this projector work with the Kuro Link on that are on some Pioneer Receivers? Also as these projectors are the same is the firmware the same and does the firware determine if it display JVC or Pioneer?
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post #3650 of 4252 Old 05-17-2010, 01:22 PM
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WHOA!, I just got my invoice from JVC telling me what was wrong with my RS2. I wasn't taking crazy pills after all.

HD100OP-S-R OPTICAL UNIT $2416.12

LC33703-001C GEAR $83.79

LC42829-002A PACKING CUSHION $5.36

NAL0053-003 P.W.BOARD ASSY $705.77

BHL5009-S Lamp $399.00

Total: $3610.04

And they covered it all under warranty. Even the LAMP. Thanks JVC
I'm stoked to be getting this back and really seeing what all the fuss was about.

Dave
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post #3651 of 4252 Old 05-20-2010, 10:48 AM
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I asked the tech at JVC to explain why my RS2 had what I felt so much done to it. This is what he said,

First off
The optical block was defective again.
I don't have an explanation as to why it failed.
It was very dim.
After replacing the optical block I found that
the lamp was flickering which could not be seen
with the dim block.
I replaced the processor board reason being
the HDMI ports were to slow to lock up and were
not very stable.
I tested this projector many hours and was
Satisfied that the projector was back to factory
specs.

Here's hoping your RS2 is working well. I'll post another calibration report in the next week. I hope this is it. Why my optical block had to be replaced twice makes me wonder. ($2600 each time and JVC says policy is a third repair and they simply replace with it another unit, hopefully a RS25).

And I had some handshaking issues but I thought it was the VideoEQ pro. I know it has these issues too. It just goes to show you never know whats messing you up.

Dave

anyone have a RS2 schematic showing the inner workings? The review at http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate is just not that clear.

Thanks
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post #3652 of 4252 Old 05-23-2010, 11:00 PM
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I got my RS2 back fro JVC and the bulb was reset to "0" hours. Compared to what it looked like before, I can't say its blowing me away for having so much wrong.

I know this has been bantered around before however, the new bulb has about 10hrs of me dinking around with it. I find the instability is excessive.

Where as And I'm having a dickens of a time calibrating. Seems one click one way or the other shoots past my target goal. I'm wondering if a new lamp might lead to some instability initially? Color settling or something. IS this characteristic of a new bulb or could something still be wrong with my RS2?

At least before I was able to get a FLAT 10 IRE to 100IRE with little trouble, not now!

And I'm now seeing 9-11 fl as opposed to the 3-5 I was getting before. BUT I thought this should of been in the 15-19 with a new bulb or does a new bulb get brighter with hours?
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post #3653 of 4252 Old 05-23-2010, 11:49 PM
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JVC recommends a recalibration after a bulb change. I had much more red on my replacement bulb compared to the original. Lamps never get brighter as the hours on them multiply... On the contrary.
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post #3654 of 4252 Old 05-24-2010, 12:33 PM
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Yes new bulbs can be unstable. They need a little run in time to settle down so you can get a good calibration, but like Freewheeler said you still need to at least set back to defaults and do some calibration on a new bulb as they tend to run out of red as they age and your old settings will be way off. Mine started to behave better at 100 + hours. The bad news is after it settles down you lose brightness, after its run in it will lose brightness much slower than initially though.
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post #3655 of 4252 Old 05-24-2010, 08:50 PM
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Thanks,

I did reset everything and go at it from there. I achieved a FL reading of 10.5 - 12.1. Thats up from 3.1 - 5.5 before and on a 119" diagonal screen.

It (strange) didn't look all that bad before but has a 3d quality to it.

I'll post results tomorrow.
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post #3656 of 4252 Old 05-26-2010, 08:39 PM
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This is my best thus far. For others with a similar projector. I'd like to hear how it might compare to your own calibration. And for any one wanting to know what CalMAN and the VideoEQ pro can, I think this speaks highly of it.

Might be getting a handle on this.[IMG][/IMG]


I always like to see a picture...

 

RS2.pdf 114.5390625k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RS2.pdf (114.5 KB, 4 views)
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post #3657 of 4252 Old 05-27-2010, 04:49 AM
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post #3658 of 4252 Old 05-27-2010, 05:06 PM
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Thanks Ray, It means a lot coming from you

And thanks Ray for all the help. Couldn't of done it without you.

Now to tackle CalMAN 4 RC1.

Haven't seen where your suppose to control the settings via drag and drop yet. Must not work at on simulated meter.
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post #3659 of 4252 Old 05-28-2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post

This is my best thus far. For others with a similar porjector. I'd like to hear how it might compare to your own calibration. And for any one wanting to know what CalMAN and the VideoEQ pro can, I think this speaks highly of it.

Might be getting a handle on this.

HAGAR,

Where did you purchase the Calman?
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post #3660 of 4252 Old 05-28-2010, 01:12 PM
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