RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 129 - AVS Forum
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post #3841 of 4235 Old 03-10-2011, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Never heard of that one but sh*t happens. My RS2 zoom and focus all of a sudden quit working. I sent it in to JVC, the tech called and said it worked fine. I got it back and it worked fine. Go figure.

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post #3842 of 4235 Old 03-10-2011, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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It was mentioned that you want to be in as wide of a zoom as you can for the best CR.

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post #3843 of 4235 Old 03-10-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelscott73 View Post

You also may want to check out the chart on contrast ratio further up in the thread. As much as I read through all the posts on this site before mounting, I missed the discussion on what the throw ratio would do to contrast ratio. I am at the bottom of the ratio because I wanted as big a screen as possible. However, I think my black detail is suffering a bit.

Just to throw in a little reality (as per mdputnam). For most normal folks brightness trumps contrast (with in reason of course) when it comes to picture satisfaction. Most folks will pick a bright picture over one with higher contrast. So, regardless of where your throw is, with the RS2 you're going to get a great picture cuz the real contrast is freakin' awesome even at the low end and making it bright is just icing on the cake.

Human perception is not a direct consequence of reality, but rather an act of imagination. - Michael Faraday
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post #3844 of 4235 Old 03-10-2011, 05:12 PM
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Its just one more thing.

According to Projector Central, my RS2 for my screen size (58" H x 103" W) can be either 13'6" back or 11'6" close.

At 13.6 back which it is and even then my lumen's are not that great for a controlled environment. According to the throw calculator, my supposed contrast is only 20,000:1

So were saying to get 30,000:1, I would need to be 19' back. (19'/8.6=2.2) I can't recall reading this as a factor in any review. Just how close and or how far you can be.

I really thought contrast was constant from the closest to the farthest?
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post #3845 of 4235 Old 03-10-2011, 06:25 PM
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Any decent review will give contrast numbers for shortest and longest throw. But the reality is, most reviews are total crap.
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post #3846 of 4235 Old 03-11-2011, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

But the reality is, most reviews are total crap.

Say what?

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post #3847 of 4235 Old 03-11-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Say what?

Most reviews (like many online reviews, but not all of them!) rarely cover the essential measurements like sequential and ansi contrast. Some don't even bother to calibrate color gamut and grayscale. There are of course reviews that do this, but IMO they are outnumbered by a lot of "casual" reviews that don't generally have quantitative measurements. WideScreen Review is one of the few sources I consider great. Home Theater is not bad either, but for some reason their contrast measurements are very very different from WSR. Cine4home also does an excellent job. Projectorreviews is "nice", but I really wish they had actual contrast measurements. Then there are the countless "reviews" online, which are no more than a news blurb, saying "we got one, and you don't". Those are the ones I have problems with. Those are not real reviews. Those are "crap".
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post #3848 of 4235 Old 03-11-2011, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post
Then there are the countless "reviews" online, which are no more than a news blurb, saying "we got one, and you don't". Those are the ones I have problems with. Those are not real reviews. Those are "crap".
Gotcha. I would agree with that.

I love this AVS forum. If it weren't for the endless amount of good people and info here, I wouldn't have the HT I have now. I do tend to put a little more faith in some of the reviews as in the more respected mags you mentioned than I do elsewhere, even here on the forum sometimes.

Chris

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post #3849 of 4235 Old 03-15-2011, 07:04 PM
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So I asked someone at Projector Central and got this in response to distance from the screen.

If you back up the projector to a long throw, you will get the dimmest image the projector is capable of. That is because the zoom lens chokes off light when set to maximum telephoto. This could slightly improve contrast. If you move the projector forward and use a wider end of the zoom, you will get a somewhat brighter picture that will measure slightly lower in contrast on a meter. Whether you could actually see any difference is another story.

I suggest you try it both ways, forget the specs, and go with the image you like best, if indeed you can tell any difference between them at all.

anyone, Buller?, Buller?
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post #3850 of 4235 Old 03-16-2011, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Put it in the middle and call it good.

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post #3851 of 4235 Old 03-16-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post

Its just one more thing.

According to Projector Central, my RS2 for my screen size (58" H x 103" W) can be either 13'6" back or 11'6" close.

I think you mean 23'6" back or 11'6" close!
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post #3852 of 4235 Old 03-16-2011, 04:54 PM
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You are correct however I was using the usable distance before it sad "recommended higher brightness zone."

And using Calman 4 and a colormunki, I seem to be getting around 11FL or about 450 lumen s.

Sometimes its terrific and sometimes I feel I'm lacking firepower. Pitch Black in Blu ray looked pretty darn good.

It would be nice to have a reference card sometimes.

Hmm, reference cards, now thats a idea.
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post #3853 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 09:04 AM
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I have an RS2 for my yet-to-be-built basement HT. My room is ~25 long and I am thinking of hanging the pj at around 12' - around the first row seats. This position is partially chosen due our desire to be able to play Kinect and Wii so moving it back a lot isn't something we're interested in. The room will have fairly dark brown walls and be light controlled. That said I would like the ability to have some lights on (< 10%) in the far back. I am thinking about using an SMX screen and I am trying to decide between 103in or 110in. My reason for this post is whether I'll need the smaller screen to increase lumens. My installer wants me to use a Stewart Ultramat (high gain) because he thinks with acoustic transparency and this pj that I'll need more lumens. He thinks that post calibration I'll be near 600 lumens.

Experience? Opinions?
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post #3854 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 09:26 AM
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I have an RS2 in similar sized room. Cieling mount at about 12' from screen. My screen is Carada 1.4 gain, but not perforated. I have a 2.35 ratio 136" and there is tons of brightness even with the Panamorph lens utilizing the entire screen. PJ is calibrated. I think in a 1.85 screen that would be like a 96x54 (can't remember the diagonal of that off hand but it might be 110 - check on that). Not sure what you lose with perf... maybe drag the PJ to one of your installers setups with a perf screen and test it.

BTW I have owned Stewart and Carada screens and the Carada is just as nice in uniformity and construction at about 1/3 the cost. Not sure if they do perf though...

Jeff Sheppard
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post #3855 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 11:07 AM
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The SMX with perf is 1.16. The ProjectorCentral calculator says I should have plenty of brightness but I have to assume that is based upon published specs before calibration.

96x54 is 110 diagonal.
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post #3856 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post

The SMX with perf is 1.16. The ProjectorCentral calculator says I should have plenty of brightness but I have to assume that is based upon published specs before calibration.

I have that screen. 10' wide, 2.40 ratio and it's the bomb. Plenty bright enough for me in a total light controlled HT. Could it be brighter? Yeah, I guess, but I never have really liked too bright an image. Too eye fatiguing for me.

Jeff Meier is scheduled to be here tomorrow to calibrate my RS2 and Pioneer151 Pro so it'll be interesting to see the before and after. I will post results and my thoughts.

Chris

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post #3857 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 12:29 PM
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Is anyone using the RS2 with in conjuction with an Onkyo/Integra amp that has ISF controls? I have an Integra DTR 8.9 and plan to use the ISF controls to help the RS2 (I understand it is difficult to get calibrated). I am curious what experience people have had?
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post #3858 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 01:15 PM
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Has anyone fed their pj a Deep Color signal?

Before I get a ton of responses about a lack of content I am aware of that. I am curious anyway.
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post #3859 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post

Is anyone using the RS2 with in conjuction with an Onkyo/Integra amp that has ISF controls? I have an Integra DTR 8.9 and plan to use the ISF controls to help the RS2 (I understand it is difficult to get calibrated). I am curious what experience people have had?

According to Jeff, the RS2 is not any more or less difficult to calibrate than others. It lacks certain calibration features that the newer RS units have, but he says the effort is still much worth it. I will find out tomorrow.

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post #3860 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 04:32 PM
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The RS2 can definitely be calibrated to a very accurate grayscale and gamma curve. Not much can be done with the color gammut....

Glen Carter
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post #3861 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

The RS2 can definitely be calibrated to a very accurate grayscale and gamma curve. Not much can be done with the color gammut....

The ISF controls in the Integra won't help?
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post #3862 of 4235 Old 04-18-2011, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post
Has anyone fed their pj a Deep Color signal?

Before I get a ton of responses about a lack of content I am aware of that. I am curious anyway.
Mine is always being fed Deep colour. It makes a huge difference. There is more info there than you know. Both Oppo and PS3 is sending Deep Colour.
Spear and Munsil recomend setting to deep colour. I took their advice and it made a big difference. Been doing it for about 18 months now.

Ta Dono
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post #3863 of 4235 Old 04-19-2011, 05:09 AM
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DouglasCleary: Integra cannot adjust color gamut correctly, even with the ISF controls. You must get a video processor that does this, like a Lumagen Radiance (Mini3D is a good option) or a DVDO Duo.

Badas: Deep color should make no difference at all. All blu-ray sources are 8-bit per channel, so there is nothing that is missing when sticking with standard hdmi signal. Deep color should only be used if your sources or your video processor (in your receiver or dedicated) need to make adjustments to the picture (like contrast and color), and having deep color allows more precision in calculating and storing the values for the pixels. Contrary to its name, "deep color" has nothing to do with providing "deeper, richer" or more saturated colors. But, if you like the way it looks, then more power to you.
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post #3864 of 4235 Old 04-19-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

DouglasCleary: Integra cannot adjust color gamut correctly, even with the ISF controls. You must get a video processor that does this, like a Lumagen Radiance (Mini3D is a good option) or a DVDO Duo.

Badas: Deep color should make no difference at all. All blu-ray sources are 8-bit per channel, so there is nothing that is missing when sticking with standard hdmi signal. Deep color should only be used if your sources or your video processor (in your receiver or dedicated) need to make adjustments to the picture (like contrast and color), and having deep color allows more precision in calculating and storing the values for the pixels. Contrary to its name, "deep color" has nothing to do with providing "deeper, richer" or more saturated colors. But, if you like the way it looks, then more power to you.

I'd love a Duo but it isn't in the budget right now.

My question about Deep Color relates to the following thread about the BDP-93, which I also own.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...91855&page=131
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post #3865 of 4235 Old 04-19-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

DouglasCleary: Integra cannot adjust color gamut correctly, even with the ISF controls. You must get a video processor that does this, like a Lumagen Radiance (Mini3D is a good option) or a DVDO Duo.

Badas: Deep color should make no difference at all. All blu-ray sources are 8-bit per channel, so there is nothing that is missing when sticking with standard hdmi signal. Deep color should only be used if your sources or your video processor (in your receiver or dedicated) need to make adjustments to the picture (like contrast and color), and having deep color allows more precision in calculating and storing the values for the pixels. Contrary to its name, "deep color" has nothing to do with providing "deeper, richer" or more saturated colors. But, if you like the way it looks, then more power to you.

Yep I realise all that. However this is why I use it. It enables me to calibrate a lot more acurate. Everything in my chain is Deep colour compliant. Also there is supose to be nothing in the deep colour data, However Spears and Munsil have done some tests on some blu's and found there is a lot of above white and below black info creeping into some discs and if you didn't have it set up you would miss out on it. Take a look at their screen shots. Heres the link it is a couple of pages back. So in my book it is worth doing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...131344&page=29

Ta Dono
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post #3866 of 4235 Old 04-20-2011, 05:20 AM
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Above white and below black are not restricted to deep color. Those values are in the most basic HDMI spec. I know some like to calibrate to see these in their display, but I prefer not to, as I don't want to purposely lower the effective contrast ratio for the vast majority of sources that do comply with the 16-235 range.

FWIW, HDMI 1.1 in YCbCr 4:2:2 signal does actually have 10 bits of precision, but not for any sources that have a 4:4:4 signal. This is adequate for most video sources, but for your PS3 (when in game mode), this would not work.
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post #3867 of 4235 Old 04-20-2011, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

Above white and below black are not restricted to deep color. Those values are in the most basic HDMI spec. I know some like to calibrate to see these in their display, but I prefer not to, as I don't want to purposely lower the effective contrast ratio for the vast majority of sources that do comply with the 16-235 range.

FWIW, HDMI 1.1 in YCbCr 4:2:2 signal does actually have 10 bits of precision, but not for any sources that have a 4:4:4 signal. This is adequate for most video sources, but for your PS3 (when in game mode), this would not work.

I get what you are saying. I have actually calibrated both ways and looked. I prefered seeing the extra whites in particular. Blacks on some well authored Discs looked better also. I know doing it this ways sacarifices some contrast ratio, however I found the whole Gamma looked better to me. I think these projectors have enougth spare contrast ratio anyway. For the record I set the contrast to cut of half the extra white, as there is not much white above that point, which in turn boosted the contrast up. S&M disc is great at showing what is in the extra range.
As for my PS3. I've had it for 2 years and it has only done 8 hours work. I should sell it. However I have the colour space set on Auto. So blu is sending YCR 4.4.4 and gaming is sending RGB. I have confirmed this in my Amp (very convenient). I get the best of both worlds. I will use my PS3 a bit more. I've actually purchased some games of late. I got it to back up my Oppo, but it hasn't been required yet. I actually own 3 PS3's. Two in another room. They are great back up machines.

Take a look here:
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gal...p?member=Badas

Ta Dono
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post #3868 of 4235 Old 04-27-2011, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

According to Jeff, the RS2 is not any more or less difficult to calibrate than others. It lacks certain calibration features that the newer RS units have, but he says the effort is still much worth it. I will find out tomorrow.

So what were the results? I am curious about lumens post calibration.
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post #3869 of 4235 Old 04-27-2011, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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He gave me the results after the calibration but I haven't had a chance to go over it in detail yet. One thing he did say was that my lumens pre cal were pretty low. This I already knew because of the fact that I'm using a 10' wide SMX AT screen with the RS2. That's pushing the limits of this pj I know but 1. My eyes are pretty sensitive to bright light so I don't mind the dimmer image and 2. I wanted a 10' wide screen in my HT and figured my next pj, like the RS40 or 50, will be plenty bright enough for that screen. I did notice an increase in the brightness of the image post cal but I haven't really had much time to do an all night viewing yet. I will post the results soon.

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post #3870 of 4235 Old 05-04-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

He gave me the results after the calibration but I haven't had a chance to go over it in detail yet. One thing he did say was that my lumens pre cal were pretty low. This I already knew because of the fact that I'm using a 10' wide SMX AT screen with the RS2. That's pushing the limits of this pj I know but 1. My eyes are pretty sensitive to bright light so I don't mind the dimmer image and 2. I wanted a 10' wide screen in my HT and figured my next pj, like the RS40 or 50, will be plenty bright enough for that screen. I did notice an increase in the brightness of the image post cal but I haven't really had much time to do an all night viewing yet. I will post the results soon.

Have you had a chance to look over those results? I am very curious.
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