Epson 1080UB Calibration Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 114 Old 01-28-2008, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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So, got this great projector and now its time for the calibration to begin. Im hopping that some experts can shed light on getting this thing cablibrated right with their postings of their settings.

Im aware that all projectors are not exactly alike, but will still like to get some idea of their settings.

Thanks
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post #2 of 114 Old 01-28-2008, 07:19 PM
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Without getting into specifics...they have been all over the board. It would be highly unlikely that one person's settings would work for another.

But, not saying you can't play around.
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post #3 of 114 Old 01-31-2008, 01:03 PM
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I just bought Epson TW2000 (Pro 1080UB). Excellent projector!
One problem only - it so bright even in "Theater Black 2" mode. I'm thinking about ND2 filter. No way to manually control IRIS to adjust light output. Brightness paramer is not good solution - it cut off dynamic range because it acts via LCD matrix.
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post #4 of 114 Old 01-31-2008, 06:47 PM
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What color temp are you at? Also what brightness/contrast are you at?
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post #5 of 114 Old 01-31-2008, 10:32 PM
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Jason,
I set all parameters by default, Brightness/Contrast "0", Color temp 6500K, Gamma "2.2", Epson SuperWhite "Off", Lamp "Low".
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post #6 of 114 Old 02-06-2008, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Jason,

Seems that a post I placed yesterday got deleted....

Do you have any pics of the settings after calibration...thanks
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post #7 of 114 Old 02-06-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malder1 View Post

Jason,
I set all parameters by default, Brightness/Contrast "0", Color temp 6500K, Gamma "2.2", Epson SuperWhite "Off", Lamp "Low".

Why?
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post #8 of 114 Old 02-06-2008, 07:01 PM
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Well I do have pictures...and I will post them. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT....from my extensive testing on these units, they are all over the board. The results for this particular one may help your projector, or they may hurt your projector (at least in regards to the grayscale and colors-the standard settings should be about the the same). So, you are warned.






You can see on the CMS menu (#4) that the colors need major adjusting to bring into the HD709 standard.
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post #9 of 114 Old 02-07-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Well I do have pictures...and I will post them. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT....from my extensive testing on these units, they are all over the board. The results for this particular one may help your projector, or they may hurt your projector (at least in regards to the grayscale and colors-the standard settings should be about the the same). So, you are warned.
[..pictures removed..]

You can see on the CMS menu (#4) that the colors need major adjusting to bring into the HD709 standard.

Very interesting - if you reference my posting about my initial calibration attempts on the Home 1080UB http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post12987593

You will notice that my settings are different enough from Jason's to support the statement that all units are unique in this regard.

In retrospect (and something I will try when I get to tweaking again) I should have first started with the color saturation control etc, it would have likely helped reduced the amount of changes I had in the Advanced settings.

The most notable issue I see out of the box - is that skin tones tend to be overly red. I want to also experiment with the Skin Tone setting to see if simply adjusting this helps (and what effect that has on the grayscale/CIE)

Roo
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post #10 of 114 Old 03-23-2008, 08:30 AM
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I received my 1080UB this week and am trying to perform an initial rought calibration using HCFR & an EyeOne LT colormeter.

I used to own an Epson TW700, and it seemed to work differently for calibrating, namely that you had to choose between calibrating perfect greyscale using RGB, or perfect colour balance with RGBCMY. When you adjusted RGB, it eliminated the RGBCMY settings you chose, and vice-versa.

My questions on the 1080UB are as follows:

1. Is there a dedicated 1080UB tweak thread? And if not, is this the best place to post calibration questions?

2. Does the 1080UB allow for perfect greyscale and gamma settings with RGB, AND allow you to dial in the colour balance with RGBCMY?

3. During RGBCMY adjustments, on the 1080UB there is an added adjustment for each colour called "Brightness". What is the best method for calibration? Is it to leave the Brightness setting at 0 and only use the hue and saturation adjustments? If so, then colour balance cannot be dialed in perfectly for each colour as with green, for example, I have saturation & brightness at -64 and it is still not quite at reference. Whereas cyan for example I hardly have to touch the brightness. Could someone explain how this works?

4. More of a PS3 interaction question: Why can't I get the PS3 to pass pluge (blacker than black) bars on the brightness test patterns? And most importantly, with it not passing pluge, does it affect the pq as compared to a device that can pass pluge?

Thanks.
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post #11 of 114 Old 03-23-2008, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFigueiredo View Post

I received my 1080UB this week and am trying to perform an initial rought calibration using HCFR & an EyeOne LT colormeter.

I used to own an Epson TW700, and it seemed to work differently for calibrating, namely that you had to choose between calibrating perfect greyscale using RGB, or perfect colour balance with RGBCMY. When you adjusted RGB, it eliminated the RGBCMY settings you chose, and vice-versa.

My questions on the 1080UB are as follows:

1. Is there a dedicated 1080UB tweak thread? And if not, is this the best place to post calibration questions?

2. Does the 1080UB allow for perfect greyscale and gamma settings with RGB, AND allow you to dial in the colour balance with RGBCMY?

>>> Have you contacted Epson support on this (you'll probably need to speak with level 2 on this one).

3. During RGBCMY adjustments, on the 1080UB there is an added adjustment for each colour called "Brightness". What is the best method for calibration? Is it to leave the Brightness setting at 0 and only use the hue and saturation adjustments? If so, then colour balance cannot be dialed in perfectly for each colour as with green, for example, I have saturation & brightness at -64 and it is still not quite at reference. Whereas cyan for example I hardly have to touch the brightness. Could someone explain how this works?

>>> See 2 above.

4. More of a PS3 interaction question: Why can't I get the PS3 to pass pluge (blacker than black) bars on the brightness test patterns? And most importantly, with it not passing pluge, does it affect the pq as compared to a device that can pass pluge?

Thanks.

I've not found that their manual, like many, are designed for your level of calibration. I'd like to hear what they tell you. I've yet to find a CMS that really works correctly. Maybe this projector's will.

Steve Schaffer
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post #12 of 114 Old 03-23-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post

I've not found that their manual, like many, are designed for your level of calibration. I'd like to hear what they tell you. I've yet to find a CMS that really works correctly. Maybe this projector's will.

As mentioned, my last projector (Epson TW700) worked very well.
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post #13 of 114 Old 06-14-2008, 08:32 AM
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Hello all..


Was in the mood to reset my colours now that the epson has 60 hours on the bulb..

To my surprise, I got different values from previous values, and picture is even better now..

Again, these values are taking my screen offset into account.. The Screen is a 1.1 gain, matt white.. 80" with Epson 1080UB Pro...


Here is the NEW VALUES:

Screen Offset:

- x=0.003
- y=0.004

- Y=-22.16%


HDMI Range: Normal

Colour Mode = HD (on UB pro model) or (Theater black 1 - on NON pro model I think...)
Brightness = 3
contrast = -1
Color = 7
tint = 3

Sharpness = Advanced, will all levels at FULL (all way to right)

Color Temp = 6000k
Skin Tone = 3
Brightness = High
Iris = OFF

ADVANCED AREA:

Gamma = 2.4

White Point (RGB)

Red Offset = -19
Green Offset = 0
Blue offset = -4

Red Gain = -11
Green gain = 0
blue Gain = -15


As you can see, the GAMMA changes from 2.1 to 2.4.. The brightness, contrast were different, and the Grey Scale is close, but a little different..

Hope this helps..

Now the wait for the next calibration
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post #14 of 114 Old 07-27-2008, 10:43 AM
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Even though the 1080UB units differ by a good amount according to Jason and others, it seems as though the primaries are typically out in a similar manner, at least in the Theater Black Modes(home version). Green and Magenta need a lot of negative hue, and Green, Red, Cyan and Magenta are far out in saturation and need to be brought down.

Taking an average of Jason's numbers above, and Andrews numbers in the link should get you fairly close. The numbers would look like this:

R 8, -36, 0
G -52, -54, 0
B 5, 0, 0
C -2, -64, 0
M -14, -17, 0
Y 4, -8, 0


Epson 1080UB (courtesy of Andrew Low)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post12987593

This review seems to support this as well.
Epson Pro 1080 (I think this uses the same primaries phospors as the 1080UB)
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Epson_PL_Pro.html

Dan
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post #15 of 114 Old 07-28-2008, 07:03 AM
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I think the best summary is that they will all vary. I suppose in theory one could average them, but that isn't to say that it will work on your unit.
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post #16 of 114 Old 08-26-2008, 10:22 AM
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Jason,

Can you recall anytime that the R,G, or B primaries have been undersaturated on the 1080UB units according to the REC.709 gamut? Just curious. It seems from the gamut charts, and calibrations I've seen that most all of the primaries typically need to be either kept where they are, or desaturated some.(green especially, sometimes red)

Also, do you mind sharing what hardware and software you use for your gamut adjustments?

Thanks,
Dan
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post #17 of 114 Old 08-26-2008, 12:06 PM
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The 3 most important calibration tips for this projector are:

1) The brightest presets (Dynamic and Living Room) severely limit the available gamut, so are impossible to achieve color accuracy.

2) Of the remaining presets, I believe that Natural is the brightest (Brightness is a problem for this unit because it only has a 170W bulb. Reviewers who noted its brightness were using Dynamic or Living Room modes and were unconcerned or unaware of their lack of color accuracy). In its calibrated state, you can expect 250-350 lumens.

3) In the Natural mode, the primary and secondary colors (especially RGCY) are all quite oversaturated and need to be reigned in by the included CMS, which works very well. However, you should NOT reduce the saturation of RGBCYM without ALSO raising their Brightness. Doing so will leave colors looking flat and dull and less accurate than in the unadjusted state. The addition of the Brightness control in the CMS along with the higher contrast LCD panels is what makes this projector such a remarkable improvement over its predecessor.

This projector is a joy to calibrate. If you know what you are doing and with the right instruments you can dial in a nearly perfect image. I can count on one hand the number of displays I would say that about. Unfortunately, because it is a relatively inexpensive unit, the reviews of it have not focused on its image adjustment capabilities, which are profound.

The only downsides are:

1) Inherent limitations to LCD technology, primarily low fill factor.
2) Relatively low brightness post calibration.
3) Unpredictable quality control issues having to do with panel alignment and white field uniformity.

Tom Huffman
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post #18 of 114 Old 08-26-2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Jason,

Can you recall anytime that the R,G, or B primaries have been undersaturated on the 1080UB units according to the REC.709 gamut? Just curious. It seems from the gamut charts, and calibrations I've seen that most all of the primaries typically need to be either kept where they are, or desaturated some.(green especially, sometimes red)

Also, do you mind sharing what hardware and software you use for your gamut adjustments?

Thanks,
Dan

Nary 1 for R or G. But, B is often a bit under.
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post #19 of 114 Old 08-26-2008, 05:20 PM
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Thanks Jason. That seems to correlate with what I've seen from reviews of the 1080UB.

Tom,

Excellent info, thanks. I've only used the 1080UB in Theater Black 1 mode, so I should be able to get the full gamut. I know what you're saying about some of the brighter modes, an extra green filter is removed from what I understand to boost the lumens, as well as having the lamp in the higher output mode.

Is there a rule of thumb for how much brightness you need to add relative to the amount you desaturate a primary color? Let's say foo instance you reduce red by 30 points in the CMS menu, how much do you need to boost the brightness?

I noticed exactly what you are talking about after I greatly reduced green and cyan saturation per other calibrtations that I've seen. The greens ended up as a dark grayish green. I'll try messing around some more tonight. Right now, I'm just playing around until I get some calibration hardware. (probably an i1pro, but not sure)

Dan
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post #20 of 114 Old 08-26-2008, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Is there a rule of thumb for how much brightness you need to add relative to the amount you desaturate a primary color? Let's say foo instance you reduce red by 30 points in the CMS menu, how much do you need to boost the brightness?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...98&postcount=1

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post #21 of 114 Old 08-26-2008, 07:12 PM
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Most welcome!
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post #22 of 114 Old 08-27-2008, 08:46 AM
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Tom,

Yes, that is an excellent thread!

The weird thing is, if I leave main color and tint control in the default zero locations, but then go into the CMS menu, I need to add saturation to Blue, Green, and Red primaries when using my Avia color filters. The blue filter from my DVE disc gives the same result for blue. This is using the downloadable REC.709 Blu-Ray disc.(which is burned to a standard DVD)

Blue = +25
Red = +10
Green = +5
Tint is too hard to see for adjustment with the color filters in my experience.

After doing this though, I do find myself bumping down the color level in the main menu to -5 because the colors look a little strong.

I just need to get some hardware. I love tweaking with it, but don't want to drop $700 for a i1pro and Calman. I wish there were another option at a lower cost that could be accurate for gamut adjustments. From what I understand, colorometers just aren't good for that. They are o.k. for grayscale however.

Dan
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post #23 of 114 Old 08-27-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

The weird thing is, if I leave main color and tint control in the default zero locations, but then go into the CMS menu, I need to add saturation to Blue, Green, and Red primaries when using my Avia color filters. The blue filter from my DVE disc gives the same result for blue. This is using the downloadable REC.709 Blu-Ray disc.(which is burned to a standard DVD)

Blue = +25
Red = +10
Green = +5
Tint is too hard to see for adjustment with the color filters in my experience.

After doing this though, I do find myself bumping down the color level in the main menu to -5 because the colors look a little strong.

I just need to get some hardware. I love tweaking with it, but don't want to drop $700 for a i1pro and Calman. I wish there were another option at a lower cost that could be accurate for gamut adjustments. From what I understand, colorometers just aren't good for that. They are o.k. for grayscale however.

Dan: You are using filters in a way they were not intended to be used. They should NOT be used with a CMS to adjust saturation. They are for color decoding adjustments only: Color and Tint.

The 1iPro is more accurate, but the Display 2 is pretty darn good. Its accuracy is satisfactory for all but the most demanding applications. There is no reason to think that colorimeters are somehow good for gray scale but not for color. This is an often-repeated myth. See
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=958099
for raw data and head-to-head comparisons. I would, however, avoid the Spyder2.

Tom Huffman
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post #24 of 114 Old 08-27-2008, 11:42 AM
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O.k., off to buy a Display 2 or DTP-94!! (by the way, do you mind indicating which you prefer?) They both look fairly comparable to me, both price and performance.

Thanks again Tom. I can't wait to start tweaking.

Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

o.k., off to buy a display 2 or dtp-94!! (by the way, do you mind indicating which you prefer?) they both look fairly comparable to me, both price and performance.

Thanks again tom. I can't wait to start tweaking.

d2

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post #26 of 114 Old 08-27-2008, 12:56 PM
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My order is being processed. I should have the D2 next week. It's actually the colorometer from the Eye-One Display LT package which I understand is the same meter as the Display2 package.

Thanks again!

Dan
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post #27 of 114 Old 09-04-2008, 09:03 AM
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Edit: Please see my later post for more accurate recommendations for calibration settings

Dan
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post #28 of 114 Old 09-12-2008, 11:19 PM
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This may be a question that would be better answered in the calibration forum but, do you think that the chroma5 device would have given you any better (or quicker) calibration than you got?
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post #29 of 114 Old 09-13-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quicker, no. The Eye-One Display 2 or Eye-One Display LT (both use the same colorometer) are very fast. I never felt like I was waiting on the meter to take the measurement. Most of the time was making decisions in the projector menu based on the information I was getting back from the meter.

Better accuracy? Not sure. I've seen some comparisons of this meter (i1D2) to the Eye-One Pro (i1pro) that show it to give near exact results for LCD displays, and another comparison that show a perceptable difference between the two. (but not a huge difference)

Another way to say it... I'm so happy with the new color accuracy that I don't feel the need to make it any better. To be honest, I'm not sure I could tell if it got any better than it is now. I think all of the meters are going to give you a huge improvment versus what you can do by eye. From that point, your paying a lot of extra money for a little bit of improvement with the other meters in my opinion. The i1LT (same meter as i1D2) is only $150 and the software is free.

Dan
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post #30 of 114 Old 09-14-2008, 02:27 PM
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Dan--

Looks great. Thanks for sharing the information and details.

What did you do to adjust the gamma? I know how/where in the Epson menu, but I'm not familiar with the Eye-One D2 and HCFR. So were you using info from that to manually tweak the gamma settings from the curve?

Thanks!
Rich
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