My SIM2 D80E review - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 120 Old 02-02-2008, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As most of you know, I had a Marantz VP-15S1 which I recently switched for a SIM2 D80E, which was fully calibrated by Jason. The picture is gorgeous. This will be an odd review. Stewart StudioTek 1.3 G3 100" diagonal.

I. D80E vs. HT380

Please do not let this descend into a another discussion of the differences between the two units, which has been discussed ad nauseeum. I know for a fact what they are but am not at liberty to diclose the info., so dont ask. Draw your own conclusions from what follows or call SIM2 Technical Support at its HQ in Florida, if you are that interested.

Since Jason calibrated the HT380 for his review, and my D80E, valid comparisons can be made, The CIE chart in the HT380 review matches my CIE chart on the D80E.

The color temp on the D80E is flatter than the HD380. Also, at20IRE, the HT380 drops to 5900. On the D80E it remains flat to 10IRE, and then rises to 7300 at 0IRE.

The Contrast Ratio on the D80E is 5713:1, compared to 4092:1 on the HT380 (long range). The lumen output on the D80E is 541 vs. 608 on the HT380 (short range).

I found no problems with the SIM2 proc. uses test discs or DVDs. When focusing, you can see individual pixels at 1080p. There was no noise at all on Blu-ray discs, and a small amount on std. DVDs. (The claim of the visual diff. between the two was that the D80E was not quite as sharp and a little noisier than the HT380. I did not find any problems with either.)

So the D80E has the same primary and secondary colors as the HT380, a flatter color temp. than the HT380, higher contrast than the HT380, and the same lumens.

You may draw whatever inferences you like.

II. D80E vs. VP-15S1

This comparison is hampered because my 15 was NOT calibrated by Jason. I was unable to do any direct A/B comparisons. And video memory is notoriously short.

A few quick things, The Marantz is far more solidily (and heavily) built. The SIM2 Manual and Remote are confusing. My Universal Remote RF10 could not learn the commands from the remote. The remote is not backlit. The fan noise is about the same as the Marantz in high setting; but the SIM2 has no high or low lamp setting.

I will give my impressions, for what they are worth later. But Jason's review of the 15 was after he fully calibrated it, like my D80E.

The CIE on the 15 is very similar to the CIE on the D80E. The color temp is somewhat flatter on the D80E, but not by a great deal

The biggest difference, as Jason put it, is that with the Marantz, you have to chose between high contrast and low lumens, or high lumens with low contrast; with the D80E you get both at the same time.

People can refer to Jason's 15 review to see how the various iris settings reflect what he says. I did a post earlier comparing contrast and lumens on the 15 vs. the HT380, which clearly demonstated that to be the case. (Search "VP-15S1 HT380" in this Forum.)

Now, for my personal observations on the Jason calibrated D80E vs. an uncalibrated 15. I would say the colors were very similar. I think the skin tones were more natural on the D80E, but that is probably Jason's handiwork.

Sharpness was equal. Video processing was equal.

The big difference was the simultaneous high contrast and lumens on the D80E. It resulted in a high lumen output picture, with deep blacks. The shadow detail was better. The picture had more pop and three dimensonality.

III. Why did I switch?

Why not? That's what we do. The British and Australian Reviews of the D80E and the HT380, were positively glowing. The projs. rec'd year end award from all magazines. Two reviews said they came very close in PQ to the C3X 1080. And, Jason's review of the HT380 was especially persuasive. (You can expect American reviews to start appearing soon.)

IV. Conclusion

I have a bias. I have only ever owned, and only would own DLP projectors. In my opinion, the 2 best deals right now for truly high quality DLP projs are the Marantz VP-15S1 ($9k) and the SIM2 D80E ($8.5k).

What something better? Well, if you absolutely need higher light output the Sim2 HT3000E with a 200 watt bulb. Remember, when that and the HT380 were matched for light output, they were indistinguishable.

The Marantz VP-11S2, which is an unknown quantity, but will almost certainly match or exceed the D80E contrast, but, again, without the lumen output.

So you want something that's REALLY better than our two bargains. Go with the SIM2 C3X 1080.

P.S. NO RBE on either machine, but I have never seen RBE on any DLP proj., even one with a 2x 4segment wheel.

P.P.S. No, I do not have a digital camera, and can not post screen shots.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 12:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Nice write up Robert. Enjoy your Sim2 D80E.
Spizz is offline  
post #3 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

What something better? Well, if you absolutely need higher light output the Sim2 HT5000 with a 200 watt bulb. Remember, when that and the HT380 were matched for light output, they were indistinguishable.

Bob

Thanks for the feedback.

Do you really mean the HT5000 (3 chip $50k+) or the HT3000e ?

So the most obvious difference between the two appears to be the optional long throw lens and a backlite remote. But based on your side by side the D80 performs better in some areas than the HT380 for a lot less cash. Interesting.

Did you notice any RBE with 1080p/24 source ? I watched a new 3000e last week and it appeared the RBE was much reduced (1080/60 material) based on the demo unit I watched several months ago. When we switched to 1080p/24 input RBE became more noticeable. I appreciate you may not be sensitive but I only see RBE on the new Unishape PJ's for some reason.

D
dazzerxxx is offline  
post #4 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hey Bob,

Congrats on the new machine.

So did you figure out if the lens and processing on the D80e is actually the same one than what it is on the HT380 and HT3000e?

That really would make it mostly the same exact projector as those other two for a much cheaper price, which would be a bargain if you wanted all that brightness.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #5 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:23 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
dazzer-

Thanks; I corrected my post. The HT380 can also up uploaded with the new CMS software, whenever it becomes available and has the satin bag.

No, I noticed no RBE w/1080p/24 (Blu-ray Casino Royale)
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #6 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I cant say I blame you for jumping ship, either. I know your circumstances were unique, but, if a manufacturer made me wait 2 months for a repair, or a replacement, I certainly would have, too. 8)

Its my understanding from CM though that the Domino series PJs do not share in the same high quality lens and video processing suite as the HT380 and HT3000e, but I would imagine that the differences are much less apparent than those that some people claim to not notice between 720p and 1080p.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #7 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Catdaddy-

The answer is yes, I did find out, but, as I put in my post, I can not reveal that info. I suggest you call SIM2 Technical Support in Florida with your questions. SIM2 Tech Support is NOT, BTW, the source of the information which I can't reveal (source or info). However, they will answer your questions honestly.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #8 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Catdaddy-

I can not comment on any assertions made by coldmachine. To do so would reveal the info. I am prohibited from revealing. I can't even reveal it to coldmachine. Call SIM2 Tech Support if you are interested.

As to lens quality, as I stated, I could focus the D80E so I could see individual pixels at 1080p. I don't think you're going to get a much better lens than that.

As for video proc., I used several test discs and watched several torture scenes, and found the video processing to be absolutely flawless. Again, I don't think you'll get much better than that.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #9 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Wow, based on what you added to your first post the D80e is actually much better than the HT380e and cheaper by 25%.

You notice a trend on this "not being able to reveal" stuff. The Planar folks wont seem to reveal the kind of DLP chip they are using on their projectors, BenQ seems to be vague about it on their web site, either. 8/

Rather than revealing what your secret source told you, how about we approach it from what the SIM2 tech guys will honestly tell us about them if we called them?

If we asked them these questions:

Are the lenses and video processing on the D80e and HT380 the same? What are the differences between the units aside from 25% price increase to the HT380 with an apparent simultaneous 25% performance decrease versus the D80e?

It does seem very strange that SIM2 tech support would honestly say that they were the same but that they sold them for $2500 more because of the case.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #10 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


I can not comment on any assertions made by coldmachine. To do so would reveal the info. I am prohibited from revealing. I can't even reveal it to coldmachine. Call SIM2 Tech Support if you are interested.

OK.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #11 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Dazzer, these (Planar, Bob, etc.) kind of reminds me what you were told when you were having issues with your projector. About sharing communications only, that is.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #12 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


So the most obvious difference between the two appears to be the optional long throw lens and a backlite remote. But based on your side by side the D80 performs better in some areas than the HT380 for a lot less cash. Interesting.

I actually relooked at that math, its 40% better performance in CR ..not 25%.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #13 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would not mention the performance decrease, which is probably attributable to unit to unit variances. Limit your question to the differences between the two units beyond what you know: the HT380 comes with the long throw lens (T2), and get the CMS software when it is available.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #14 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 02:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Catdaddy67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


I would not mention the performance decrease, which is probably attributable to unit to unit variances. Limit your question to the differences between the two units beyond what you know: the HT380 comes with the long throw lens (T2), and get the CMS software when it is available.

What I understand from CM is that the standard HT380 comes with the T1 lens, I believe, but it has an option for a long throw lens and the Domino does not come with either (T1 or T2) lens at all, but rather a cheaper one from the HT series PJs.

I wonder myself what the actual real world differences are between a real good lens (like the one supposedly on the HT series versus supposedly "cheaper" ones like the ones on their domino lines.) When I get the 11S2 this coming week one of the things I will be looking at is how much difference just even "hand-picked" and matched lenses, of the exact same lens, make to the image.

No accounting for what people consider to be "noticeable" or "substantial" differences, though. If you take a peek at that 720p versus 1080p thread some folks will have you believe that there are not much, if any, differences between the two resolutions. 8/

On the other hand, you have Francis Medina (who owns a 15S1) and Bruno Gosselin (who owns a Sharp 20k) who will both admit to a noticeable (unquantifiable) difference to benefit the 15s1 (in the lens regard,) that they could only attribute to the lens, of both machines which are able to resolve individual 1080p pixels to the extent that you say your D80e does. Keep in mind that they both had the Sharp 20k and VP15S1s simultaneously and were doing substantial A/Bs before they each elected to keep their projectors.

There definitely is a difference on how we each prioritize the different elements that go into picture quality as one decided it was worth the $ price to upgrade, from the Sharp 20k to the 15S1, and the other decided it wasnt much of a difference overall to incur the additional cost to upgrade.

My setup, still in progress:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catdaddy67 is offline  
post #15 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 02:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

dazzer-

Thanks; I corrected my post. The HT380 can also up uploaded with the new CMS software, whenever it becomes available and has the satin bag.

No, I noticed no RBE w/1080p/24 (Blu-ray Casino Royale)

Bob

Thanks. I thought the CMS tool was PC based on that not the case ?

Also are you using a PS3 for Blu-ray playback with forced 1080p/24 output ?

D
dazzerxxx is offline  
post #16 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 02:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Dazzer-
Sorry, I missed your post above. I am a computer moron. My understanding is that you will be able to download the CMS either from a CD-ROM or off the internet, when it is available in April.

Yes, I used a PS3 in forced 1080p/24 mode.

Catdaddy-

It is true that the HT380 has the option of the T1 or T2 lens. Unfortunately, I am unable to comment on the lens used in the D80E. It is entirely possible that the lens on the 15 is superior to the lens on the D80E. I could not A/B them. But my video memory (bad) recalls no real difference.

In any case lens quality and sharpness is just one part of the equation that goes into making a great projector.

The # for SIM2 is 954-442-2999. Instead of flooding them w/phone calls, one or two forum member can call and post the results. Catdaddy?

Every one-

I called SIM2 at that number twice, talked to two different people who gave me the exact same info. That info was entirely consistent with the detailed information I was given, and can not reveal. To keep my promise, I do not believe I can disclose what SIM2 in FL told me. Sorry. The call to SIM2 should cure that problem.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #17 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post


It is one thing to keep a confidence. It is an altogether different thing to allow a lie to exist uncorrected, which I will not do.

Bob

When I asked Alan Roser (MD Sim2 UK) what was the difference his reply was as follows (He means the D80e BTW). The "lens quality" etc was then brought up by another poster later in the same thread.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623561

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Roser View Post

We do not have any details as yet of the introduction of DC4 on the 3000E I'm afraid.

The difference between D80 & HT380 is that there are two lens options on the 380, enhanced Brilliant Color which enables full CMS with our new Live Colors Calibration software, which enables full control of primaries & secondry colors.

Our colour wheels RGBCMY
__________________
Regards
Alan Roser
SIM2

D
dazzerxxx is offline  
post #18 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coldmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting in the weeds
Posts: 5,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am bound by no such assurance of secrecy Robert and I have exchanged on this many times, the details of which are private both ways. Robert will also attest the lengths to which i went to clarify the lens issue. Each time I came back with the exact same answer.

I also had someone speak to Roberts "source", though i would hardly use that word. I wanted to find out why Rob had been misinformed regarding this issue.

To say I am frikkin pissed is the understatement of the century, as should be the others who confirmed my posts.......Here goes.

1. The VP has differences on the HT380 as it requires a different BC to use the CMS. The D80e does not have this software.

2. Unit to unit diffs aside the 380 is brighter and has higher contrast, and is overall a better machine. Ive back to backed them as has Jason, with the same result. Whether the diff is worth the money is up to the individual.


3. Here's the kicker,read very carefully......... It would seem that a number of people were misinformed regarding the lens detail. Robert was NOT one of them. I WILL be taking this further and if need be, names will be named. I dont want to go further atm as those involved deserve the opportunity to respond. Watch this space.

--------------------------------------------
"Wow, do you think you are Adonis"...... "Baby, I'm not A-donis, I'm THE-donis"
coldmachine is offline  
post #19 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mr Roser is correct. The ONLY two differences between the D80E and HT380 are : 1) the T1/T2 lens option; and 2) the ability of the HT380 to take the Live Colors Calibration software when available. The D80E uses the T1 lenses.

Mr Roser is my source. What is posted directly above, is exactly what he told me.

Since he posted this informtion on the AVS Forum for all to read, I see no reason to continue to keep his confidence for what he already posted on AVS.

I also questioned him specifically on the claimed differences between the two by coldmachine. He said none of them, e.g. different processor, different lenses, etc. were true. He questioned the source of coldmachine's information, thinking it might be a sorely misinformed dealer.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #20 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coldmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting in the weeds
Posts: 5,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post


He said none of them, e.g. different processor, different lenses, etc. were true. He questioned the source of coldmachine's information, thinking it might be a sorely misinformed dealer.

For accuracy Robert, i never said "processor", thats hardware, I said "processing", thats software. It was also explained to you that the VP needs to have a different BC to use the CMS. That on board difference also has a beneficial effect on PQ

If the source of my, many, many times confirmed, info does not clarify his misinformation, I will name him on this forum. It is not only I who have been potentially misled, but others I respect too.

--------------------------------------------
"Wow, do you think you are Adonis"...... "Baby, I'm not A-donis, I'm THE-donis"
coldmachine is offline  
post #21 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As to coldmachine's assertions: Jason told me on the phone that he never saw a D80E in operation until I bought mine, let alone back to back with the HT380 as coldmachine claims.

Mr Roser positively stated to me that the D80E uses the T1 lenses.

Coldmachine claims the HT380 gives better contrast and lumens than the D80E. Yet, they use the same 160W bulb, and the same T1 lens. My D80E after Jason calibrated it had a contrast ration of 5713:1. The HT380 Jason calibrated had a CR of 4092:1. Lumen output was comparable. So where's the better contrast and lumens from the HT380?

coldmachine is correct on #1 in his post.

Because Mr Roser posted the differences between the D80E and HT380, and it was the same as he told me I
felt released from my pledge of secrecy.

My conversation with Mr. Roser was well over half an hour. The differences between the two projs is SOLELY: 1) the T1/T2 lens option; and 2) the ability to use the CMS software when available.

Again, I went over the numerous differences claimed by coldmachine, and he said they were not true.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #22 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Unfortunately, I let slip in a post above, that my source told me that the D80E uses the T1 lens.

Otherwise, Mr Roser is correct. The ONLY two differences between the D80E and HT380 are : 1) the T1/T2 lens option; and 2) the ability of the HT380 to take the Live Colors Calibration software when available.

Mr Roser is my source. What is posted directly above, with the exception that he told me the D80E uses a T1 lens, is exactly what he told me.

Since he posted this informtion on the AVS Forum, I see no reason to contnue to keep his confidence for what he already posted on AVS.

I also questioned him specifically on the claimed differences between the two by coldmachine. He said none of them, e.g. different processor, different lenses, etc. were true. He questioned the source of coldmachine's information, thinking it might be a sorely misinformed dealer.

Bob

Can't say I'm really surprised by the confrimation of that info. It makes sense to share as many "common" components as possible especially given the small quantities of units being manufactured. It's also a sad fact but I've had a dealer claim the "more expensive" units had better lens etc and I know it not to be the case.

It will be interesting to understand why those that have backed to backed the PJ's concerned believe the HT380 is much better. If both machines are based on the same internal design just in a different case what causes the difference in PQ they percieve ?

D
dazzerxxx is offline  
post #23 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coldmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting in the weeds
Posts: 5,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

As to coldmachine's assertions: Jason told me on the phone that he never saw a D80E in operation until I bought mine, let alone back to back with the HT380 as coldmachine claims.

Mr Roser positively stated to me that the D80E uses the T1 lenses.

Coldmachine claims the HT380 gives better contrast and lumens than the D80E. Yet, they use the same 160W bulb, and the same T1 lens. My D80E after Jason calibrated it had a contrast ration of 5713:1. The HT380 Jason calibrated had a CR of 4092:1. Lumen output was comparable. So where's the better contrast in the HT380.

coldmachine is correct on #1 in his post.

I have responded to coldmachine, and will no more. Because Mr Roser posted the differences between the D80E and HT380, and it was the same as he told me with the exception that he told me the D80E uses the T1 lens (while admitting it does not say that in the specs. for the D80E), I
felt released from my pledge of secrecy.

My conversation with Mr. Roser was well over half an hour. The diffences between the two projs is SOLELY: 1) the T1/T2 lens option; and the ability to use the CMS software when available. Again, I went over the numerous differences claimed by coldmachine, and he said they were not true.

And to coldmachine: go ahead, name names, whatever that's supposed to mean.

I retract the D80e thing with Jason, a genuine mistake. I am pretty sure that he posted that the 380 was his preferred image and that he also said the price difference was, in his opinion, worth it. I drew a wrong conclusion and assumed a back to back. I look forward to his comment.

What I mean by naming names is very clear, see below....Im on your side here

IF SIM2 DO NOT CLEAR THIS UP, I WILL PUBLICLY NAME THE SENIOR MEMBER OF STAFF AT SIM2 WHO, ON 3 SEPARATE OCCASIONS CONFIRMED THE LIST OF DIFFERENCES TO BE CORRECT.

look back at the posts and you will also see that they were confirmed by others. I am totally with you here Robert. I am pissed beyond belief.

As foe you not responding to me, thats fine. The content of your PMs remains private.

--------------------------------------------
"Wow, do you think you are Adonis"...... "Baby, I'm not A-donis, I'm THE-donis"
coldmachine is offline  
post #24 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mr Roser is Managing Director of SIM2 UK. In that capacity, he is also in charge of SIM2 in the US.

coldmachine- You did claim that the Pixelworks proc in the HT380 was better than the Pixelworks proc. in the D80E, which Mr Roser says is not the case; they are the same.

You are, of course, correct that the HT380 has the software to take the new CMS when it is released in April, and the D80E does not. That is one of the two differences between the projs along with the T1/T2 lens option, as established by Mr. Roser in his AVS post and conversation with me.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #25 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coldmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting in the weeds
Posts: 5,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Mr Roser is Managing Director of SIM2 UK. In that capacity, he is also in charge of SIM2 in the US.

coldmachine- You did claim that the Pixelworks proc in the HT380 was better than the Pixelworks proc. in the D80E, which Mr Roser says is not the case; they are the same.

You are, of course, correct that the HT380 has the software to take the new CMS when it is released in April, and the D80E does not. That is one of the two differences between the projs along with the T1/T2 lens option, as established by Mr. Roser in his AVS post and conversation with me.

I NEVER said that the pixel works hardware was different EVER EVER EVER.I said the processing was better, not the hardware. Please provide a link or a retraction. There is no alternative compatible chip from which to choose from PW that is suitable, so that could never be the case, hardware wise.

Im not fighting you here at all. Ive made that clear.

--------------------------------------------
"Wow, do you think you are Adonis"...... "Baby, I'm not A-donis, I'm THE-donis"
coldmachine is offline  
post #26 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 04:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

For accuracy Robert, i never said "processor", thats hardware, I said "processing", thats software. It was also explained to you that the VP needs to have a different BC to use the CMS. That on board difference also has a beneficial effect on PQ

If the source of my, many, many times confirmed, info does not clarify his misinformation, I will name him on this forum. It is not only I who have been potentially misled, but others I respect too.

While I have NO intention of dropping in here, this statement is rather desperate.

Yes a processor is tangible H/W.
Real-time logic processing can be implemented H/W only, but software always needs H/W to let it be able to run.
So processing can be H/W only or H/W with software/firmware.
But "processing" is never just software alone.

Man I need to go to church now and be cleansed and redeemed from the weekend here. Goodbye
reincarnate is offline  
post #27 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 05:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coldmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting in the weeds
Posts: 5,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

While I have NO intention of dropping in here, this statement is rather desperate.

Yes a processor is tangible H/W.
Real-time logic processing can be implemented H/W only, but software always needs H/W to let it be able to run.
So processing can be H/W only or H/W with software/firmware.
But "processing" is never just software alone.

Man I need to go to church now and be cleansed and redeemed from the weekend here. Goodbye

Its not a reach. This is common knowledge. Robert and I are purely clarifying this issue. The VP uses differing in house SW for different models, thats not the issue here at all.

I am 100% with Robert here, I made that clear.

--------------------------------------------
"Wow, do you think you are Adonis"...... "Baby, I'm not A-donis, I'm THE-donis"
coldmachine is offline  
post #28 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
dazzer-
AFASK, only coldmachine has side-by sided them. I paraphrase. There is a difference, not night and day, but a difference. The HT380 was sharper and had less noise.

Perhaps the focus on one was a hair off. Maybe the NR was different. But we now know there should be no difference in the PQ between the two models., just unit to unit variances.

coldmachine-
I'm not pissed at all. I was quite relieved by my conversation with Mr Roser, and it made my decision to go for the D80E ($8500), over the HT380 ($12k) very easy. I'm not pissed; I'm happy. I can understand why you would be pissed as it appears you were given false or misleading information. I'll withdraw my Pixelworks statement. My memory isn't that good, and I'm too lazy to search for it
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #29 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 05:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coldmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waiting in the weeds
Posts: 5,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

dazzer-
AFASK, only coldmachine has side-by sided them. I paraphrase. There is a difference, not night and day, but a difference. The HT380 was sharper and had less noise.

Perhaps the focus on one was a hair off. Maybe the NR was different. But we now know there should be no difference in the PQ between the two models., just unit to unit variances.

coldmachine-
I'm not pissed at all. I was quite relieved by my conversation with Mr Roser, and it made my decision to go for the D80E ($8500), over the HT380 ($12k) very easy. I'm not pissed; I'm happy. I can understand why you would be pissed as it appears you were given false or misleading information. I'll withdraw my Pixelworks statement. My memory isn't that good, and I'm too lazy to search for it

Thanks for the retraction, cool. The different BC software does impact the color rendition and therefore PQ, no question at all. Alan R has also confirmed that you were told that. The T2 lens also makes a good difference. I further refer you to Jasons statement that the 380 had the better image.

Those are not the issues here anyway, its the other differences, primarily the lens that are in question. The source of the information will be named if a satisfactory explanation is not forthcoming. I am not the only one pissed at this, remember my list was confirmed on this forum, others will be pissed.

PS Information regarding this should now be in your inbox

--------------------------------------------
"Wow, do you think you are Adonis"...... "Baby, I'm not A-donis, I'm THE-donis"
coldmachine is offline  
post #30 of 120 Old 02-03-2008, 05:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

The T2 lens also makes a good difference. I further refer you to Jasons statement that the 380 had the better image.

Sim2 told me the T2 suffered less in terms of CA etc than the T1. That said the T2 is a long throw option and is not offered as an "upgrade" in quality over the standard throw T1. The T2 option also increases the cost of the HT380.

D
dazzerxxx is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off