The Official AVS 'Smart Antenna' topic - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 167 Old 02-18-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

I wouldn't interpret my quote to EXCLUDE RCA from releasing additional Smart Antennas...maybe...

RCA Rep. stated no additional Smart Antenna planned.
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post #92 of 167 Old 03-01-2009, 10:06 PM
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I ran across this article, about using an FAAF with the CECB EIA/CEA-909 (Smart Antenna) interface jack. Has anyone seen or heard of something like this on the Market?

Addressing DTV Interference Problems and Controlling Receiver Overload Using FAAF
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/61976
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post #93 of 167 Old 03-01-2009, 10:21 PM
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I was meaning for my thread/post to be focused on how to acquire better reception for CECB's and that CECB's with an EIA/CEA-909 (Smart Antenna) interface jack would be beneficial for DTV viewing. That's why I started it in the CECB forum.
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post #94 of 167 Old 03-02-2009, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post


So it looks like .......... and Antennas Direct (any month now???).

Don't hold your breath.

Technically superior design might be too expensive to build and mass market profitably.

.....
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post #95 of 167 Old 04-01-2009, 11:33 AM
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It took me several weeks to finally get my hands on an ANT2000, and I must say I am very disappointed.

The antenna I was using was the UFO RS-1892 which gave me pretty decent reception. My location in a Garden Apartment complex puts me in a very bad spot. I sent "Solid Signal" the following to see what their recommendation would be:

====================================
Original Antenna Request DATA
====================================

Do you already have an antenna? Yes

If so, why do you want a different one? The towers to the nearer, more desired NY stations are directly behind my location and I cannot pick any of those stations up. I can only successfully pick up a few stations that are in the opposite direction towards Philadelphia.

Type of building: 2 Story Condominium

Do your neighbors have antennas? Yes

If so, can you describe them? Dish

Anything we need to know about terrain, other obstructions and/or reflection sources? My location is kind of boxed in. My apt faces another set of condos 50 feet ahead, and there are 2 more sets of condos of condos on each side of my location.

====================================
Their response:
====================================

Hello,
I recommend the RCA ANT1500 Indoor Multi-Directional antenna.

Or the RCA ANT1550 Amplified Indoor Multi-Directional antenna.

Steve K.
Antenna Technician & Sales
(866) 374 4625 ext. 3310
SolidSignal.com
====================================

Since I already have a Tivax STB-T8 with the smart antenna port, I decided to go with the ANT2000 which is basically a Smart Antenna version of the ANT1550...

Results were horrible...

With this ANT2000, I could only pick up 2 of 11 stations I was picking up with the UFO from Radio Shack?

For anyone who currently uses the ANT2000, do you actually "hear" the internal adjustments with your ANT2000? I hear absolutely nothing happening and feel nothing when I place my hand on it and i make manual adjustments. With the UFO RS-1892, I actually hear the adjustments being made. It's a little noisy, but reassuring that it is actualy doing what it is supposed to be doing...

Also, how is this antenna "amplified"? There is not power supply to the ANT2000? Is it powered via the "Converter"?

Thank you and my apologies for the long post...
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post #96 of 167 Old 04-01-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarican View Post

It took me several weeks to finally get my hands on an ANT2000, and I must say I am very disappointed.

For anyone who currently uses the ANT2000, do you actually "hear" the internal adjustments with your ANT2000? I hear absolutely nothing happening and feel nothing when I place my hand on it and i make manual adjustments. With the UFO RS-1892, I actually hear the adjustments being made. It's a little noisy, but reassuring that it is actualy doing what it is supposed to be doing...

Also, how is this antenna "amplified"? There is not power supply to the ANT2000? Is it powered via the "Converter"?

Thank you and my apologies for the long post...

I too have wondered how they can call it "amplified" -- does the Smart Antenna bus provide power for signal amplification through the little inline widget?

With respect to adjustment noises, I was under the impression that a smart antenna such as this does not have moving parts, but rather just activates the appropriate directional element in an array of multiple elements, depending on the direction that corresponds to the currently tuned station. Is this true...anyone?
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post #97 of 167 Old 04-01-2009, 12:39 PM
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The now-discontinued RCA "smart antenna" consisted of two printed circuit boards, at least one of which was counter-rotated relative tothe other in order to try to cut down on multi-path.

There's little doubt why it has been discontinued, even if you were to momentarily ignore the plethora of so called CEA-909 "standard" implementations.
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post #98 of 167 Old 04-01-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

The now-discontinued RCA "smart antenna" consisted of two printed circuit boards, at least one of which was counter-rotated relative tothe other in order to try to cut down on multi-path.

There's little doubt why it has been discontinued, even if you were to momentarily ignore the plethora of so called CEA-909 "standard" implementations.

This is not responsive at all to the last several posts.
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post #99 of 167 Old 04-02-2009, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

There's little doubt why it has been discontinued, even if you were to momentarily ignore the plethora of so called CEA-909 "standard" implementations.

It doesn't look discontinued to me.

Ant2000 Web Page

It has been noted that this antenna does not like to be near metal including the TV. Also, they are not automatic because there would be video glitching when it was changing directions. It will only look for a new setting if commanded to do to though the menu system. I find it should preform better not worse than another indoor antenna in the same spot. The big advantage is it will adjust from remote commands instead of you getting up and fiddling with it. The digital converter boxes out there store a different direction for every channel so you change the channel and it changes the antenna for you to a saved setting.

The smart antenna interface allows for several options. The RCA ANT2000 and DX Antenna DTA5000 both use an array of antennas to control the direction, a phase array. Other options include a rotor with a high gain antenna or just switching multiple antennas and not phase added them.

The interface port does have power on it for the antenna. I don't remember the voltage or current spec's right off. I like my Tivax STB-T8 unit because it keeps the power to the antenna on even with the converter box off. I then use my TV's tuner to watch stuff without the converter box on. My Goodmind DTA1000 would power down the antenna when it was off.
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post #100 of 167 Old 04-05-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpmoon View Post

I too have wondered how they can call it "amplified" -- does the Smart Antenna bus provide power for signal amplification through the little inline widget?

With respect to adjustment noises, I was under the impression that a smart antenna such as this does not have moving parts, but rather just activates the appropriate directional element in an array of multiple elements, depending on the direction that corresponds to the currently tuned station. Is this true...anyone?

I too had the Radio Shack starship, but my wife hated it and the need to periodically change the tuning control drove my wife and kids insane. Also having two high energy ADHD kids moving around the room would add to the multi-path interference. All of this was resolved with this wonderful antenna. With the RCA DTA800B and 809, you do need to do the complete scan to lock in the Channels, and there is a 2-3sec lag when you power up the box for the station 42 miles from me. Also the box needs to be away from brick and steel gutters. Near a window was the best. The antenna is silent, the adjustments are in the control box which the antenna plugs in to.
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post #101 of 167 Old 05-07-2009, 11:05 AM
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Would those who have tried the ANT2000 and disliked it be able to elaborate on its faults? Since it's become easier to find again I've considered picking it up but ProjectSHO89's posts have given me pause. I like my Radio Shack UFO but the shape makes it hard to get closer to a window and this seems like the best alternative in theory. Plus, the UFO's programmable antenna is for UHF only, using rabbit ears for VHF. I'm in NY where 3 major channels will be on VHF post-transition so the VHF being part of the smart antenna in the ANT2000 is appealing to me.

Also, how would those who have tried both the ANT2000 and UFO compare them.

Thanks!

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post #102 of 167 Old 05-08-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bix View Post

Also, how would those who have tried both the ANT2000 and UFO compare them.

Thanks!

I would wait until after the transition and see if you have problems with the VHF stations. If you have something that is working I wouldn't mess with it.

I haven't tried the RS "UFO", remote controlled indoor antenna. So I couldn't comment on it's performance. The RCA ANT2000 likes to be flat also, so placement might still be an issue with you. The main advantage you will get is a smart antenna enabled tuner will change the antenna direction for you when you change channel. Also, you loose one remote.
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post #103 of 167 Old 05-08-2009, 05:50 PM
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Anyone in St Louis for the CEA meetings next week who has an interest in this topic might want to stop by the NAB's booth while at the meetings.
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post #104 of 167 Old 05-23-2009, 06:52 AM
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I got wind of this on another topic. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about this model. Sounds like it will work in dumb down mode if not connected to a smart antenna enabled device. Otherwise it will work in smart antenna mode. The whips tells me that only UHF is smart antenna. Also, this unit is so small I don't think it would perform as well as the two other models (DX Antenna DTA-5000 and the RCA ANT2000) that are on the market.

APEX SM550
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post #105 of 167 Old 05-23-2009, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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What I posted in EV's Indoor Antenna Review Thread:

I'm skeptical whether the Apex SM550 is even a true Smart Antenna.....
It only has one set of rabbit ears and a (too small) UHF loop around the clock,
so where are the multiple antennas?????

From Best Buy's description, I would conclude it's a typical amplified antenna
that can plug into the CEA-909 Smart Antenna I/F...but ONLY to pick up DC power....
although perhaps they're adjusting the amplifier gain????

BIG tip-off is the price is the same as a generic amplified rabbit ears
(so nothing left in the budget for a Smart Antenna electronics module).

================================
In another forum, I saw confirmation of the above...it isn't even RECOGNIZED
by a CECB with Smart Antenna I/F....the SM550 only sucks power out of that port.
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post #106 of 167 Old 05-29-2009, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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RCA ANT2000 interior photos (as well as DX Antennas DTA-5000 test) can be found here:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files

It's a simple pair of crossed (and very fat) bowties...and overly small for Hi-VHF...
unless you are close enough to the transmitters....

When L.A. goes digital in Hi-VHF band in a couple weeks I might even get a chance to try it again....
I would predict the much longer crossed VHF dipole elements on the DX-5000 will be better, and it's
two element Yagis might have an edge over the ANT2000 for UHF....but more testing is needed....
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post #107 of 167 Old 05-30-2009, 07:52 AM
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Thanks for the posting holl_ands. Have you heard any news about the Antenna Direct Smart Antenna? I was hoping you would have at NAB 2009.
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post #108 of 167 Old 05-30-2009, 10:25 PM
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Doing a search on Smart Antennas I came across RCA ANT2000M on Amazon.
Is this an updated version of RCA ANT2000 or what? Anyone?
I've been using digital converter boxes for several months now using small Aztec Flat Panel HDTV Antennas with little problems. We were happy to have 4 digital channels for our local PBS station until recently. Completely lost. The station did announce that they were dropping the analog signal early (before June 12th) but that shouldn't affect the digital output. Right? We've tried rescanning but there is no picking it up. All the other channels are great (have 23 of them, although some are Spanish).
Not sure what happened but we're considering purchasing a Smart Antenna if that will help. Not happy about the extra cost (found one on Amazon for less than $50 w/free shipping) but if that will pull in the digital signals better, willing to give it a go. The converter boxes we have do have smart antenna ports.
Thanks for any input.
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post #109 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 08:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfandsf View Post

Doing a search on Smart Antennas I came across RCA ANT2000M on Amazon.
Is this an updated version of RCA ANT2000 or what? Anyone?
I've been using digital converter boxes for several months now using small Aztec Flat Panel HDTV Antennas with little problems. We were happy to have 4 digital channels for our local PBS station until recently. Completely lost. The station did announce that they were dropping the analog signal early (before June 12th) but that shouldn't affect the digital output. Right? We've tried rescanning but there is no picking it up. All the other channels are great (have 23 of them, although some are Spanish).
Not sure what happened but we're considering purchasing a Smart Antenna if that will help. Not happy about the extra cost (found one on Amazon for less than $50 w/free shipping) but if that will pull in the digital signals better, willing to give it a go. The converter boxes we have do have smart antenna ports.
Thanks for any input.
[IMG]http://www.*****************/trafficreport/img/3721/k08t1221bbuq/gdsmile.gif[/IMG]

I'll go with the free shipping but check first about their feedback first.
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post #110 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfandsf View Post

We were happy to have 4 digital channels for our local PBS station until recently. Completely lost. The station did announce that they were dropping the analog signal early (before June 12th) but that shouldn't affect the digital output. Right?

Not necessarily right.

If the PBS station changed digital RF frequencies (flash-cut to their prior analog RF frequency, for example) when they dropped analog, then all bets are off as to continued reception in a particular location. They would be using a wholly different transmitter/antenna setup.

Where are you located? You could go to tvfool.com, enter your address, and post the results here - but as a first cut, simply checking to see if your local PBS station changed RF frequencies when they dropped analog broadcasting might explain what's going on.
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post #111 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfandsf View Post

Doing a search on Smart Antennas I came across RCA ANT2000M on Amazon.
Is this an updated version of RCA ANT2000 or what? Anyone?
I've been using digital converter boxes for several months now using small Aztec Flat Panel HDTV Antennas with little problems. We were happy to have 4 digital channels for our local PBS station until recently. Completely lost. The station did announce that they were dropping the analog signal early (before June 12th) but that shouldn't affect the digital output. Right? We've tried rescanning but there is no picking it up. All the other channels are great (have 23 of them, although some are Spanish).
Not sure what happened but we're considering purchasing a Smart Antenna if that will help. Not happy about the extra cost (found one on Amazon for less than $50 w/free shipping) but if that will pull in the digital signals better, willing to give it a go. The converter boxes we have do have smart antenna ports.
Thanks for any input.

Please note: the one from Amazon that is only $46 ships in 2 to 4 weeks. So you won't get it in time for the June 12 shutoff.

Solid Signal again ran out of ANT2000s, but they do still have factory refurb ANT2000s in stock for $50 (no free shipping).

Is an ANT2000M any different? All I can say is the one I bought said ANT2000M on the packaging. I assume it's the same.

As for your PBS affiliate, I'd call them and ask. A lot of stations here have put their new antenna somewhere temporarily. Once analog shuts down, they move the new antenna to the top of the tower (where the analog antenna used to be). This necessitates using a low power temp antenna for a few weeks during the move.
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post #112 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTheGeek View Post

Thanks for the posting holl_ands. Have you heard any news about the Antenna Direct Smart Antenna? I was hoping you would have at NAB 2009.

Based on the published final report from the developers to the NAB (available at http://www.nabfastroad.org/NAB_Final...ev_Public2.pdf), don't hold your breath.

It seems that the manufacturers of the recent and the current crop of -909 and -909a enabled converter boxes haven't been consistent in how they implemented the "standard". Additionally, there isn't a SINGLE television manufacturer that has brought to market a TV with a SA interface. Kind of leaves the market for this device limited to owners of devices that are literally "dead-enders" as every converter box now sold is planned to be obsolete when the attached set is replaced.

On the other hand, the developers did end up with a smart four port amplifier that would make rotors obsolete - if only the devices were out there to control it so it might be brought to market. I guess no one else was at the CEA meetings a couple of weeks ago....
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post #113 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

Based on the published final report from the developers to the NAB (available at http://www.nabfastroad.org/NAB_Final...ev_Public2.pdf), don't hold your breath.

Thanks for the info. I look though the report. I did find it disturbing that some converter boxes were not even sending start bits on the packets correctly.

On the plus side, this prototype is the only unit I know of that has polarization capabilities. But as the reports at the end show, none of the converter boxes would use this feature in automatic scan modes. A few could in manual mode though.

I was hoping that the single cable -909A standard would encourage some development for smart antenna interfaces in the computer tuner market. But I haven't seen any yet.
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post #114 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

RCA ANT2000 interior photos (as well as DX Antennas DTA-5000 test) can be found here:

It's a simple pair of crossed (and very fat) bowties...and overly small for Hi-VHF...
unless you are close enough to the transmitters....

When L.A. goes digital in Hi-VHF band in a couple weeks I might even get a chance to try it again....
I would predict the much longer crossed VHF dipole elements on the DX-5000 will be better, and it's
two element Yagis might have an edge over the ANT2000 for UHF....but more testing is needed....

Thanks for the photos. People have said they'd seen them opened up, but never posted pictures.

I'm gonna disagree about ANT2000s and poor VHF hi, based strictly on anecdotal evidence (so take my opinions with a grain of salt). I've done the same thing as Doc Sief: I used the CECB in analog pass through to test the quality of the ANT2000. Reception was nonexistent in VHF low. A coat hanger would've done better. VHF hi was terrific, even though it was turned off. In fact, VHF hi was better than UHF, although that may say more about VHF vs. UHF than it says about this antenna.

All my stations come from the same antenna farm, 20 miles away.
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post #115 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I would guess the "M" variant is a revised model...somehow...now we need new photos to compare...

BTW: Also available from Warren Electronics:
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/ant2000m.htm

==============================================
NAB Report is for A-D Prototype Smart Antenna...which only operated in UHF Band...so no help for VHF...
Also note big differences between VSWR performance in theory...and actual implementation
in Microstrip Disc alternative...and then they fell back to existing Lacrosse/Micron design
with little or no performance data in the delivered report.....thanks a heap....

What they developed and tested for NAB presumably was a "proof of concept" for
outputting control signals directly on the coax, rather than going through an external
"Power Insertion Module" (hardly a high tech effort--relocate the PIM inside the tuner).
And the one and only "Made In USA" Smart Antenna for DTV.....hmmmm.....
Too bad they interpreted NAB "specs" to mean VHF coverage was not a requirement.....
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post #116 of 167 Old 05-31-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

....

What they developed and tested for NAB presumably was a "proof of concept" for
outputting control signals directly on the coax, rather than going through an external
"Power Insertion Module" (hardly a high tech effort--relocate the PIM inside the tuner).
And the one and only "Made In USA" Smart Antenna for DTV.....hmmmm.....
Too bad they interpreted NAB "specs" to mean VHF coverage was not a requirement.....

No, what they developed and delivered was a complete smart antenna (actually, two of them). What you characterized as "outputting control signals directly on the coax" as the project achievement was only an addendum since, as stated in the report, there were no commercially available converter boxes on the market at the time so that a "real" product could drive the antenna. That additional item was needed in order to meet the NAB's requirements. See section 3.2.8

Speaking of NAB's requirements, did you read section 3.1? It gives the spec for what the NAB wanted and rabbit-ear high VHF performance was what was specified. Remember, amplified rabbit-ears is a pretty standard indoor antenna solution for many people. You might also wish to reread the last paragraph of section 2.1.

The project's recipient engineer's name, address, phone number, and email address is on page 1 of the report. Perhaps you should contact him and get HIS feedback since he was the recipient of the complete report. You might also ask him how the delivered prototypes performed and what conclusions he and his staff members reached from the effort before jumping to any conclusions based on your own preconceptions of what you had hoped the project would yield.
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post #117 of 167 Old 06-01-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreater View Post

Not necessarily right.

If the PBS station changed digital RF frequencies (flash-cut to their prior analog RF frequency, for example) when they dropped analog, then all bets are off as to continued reception in a particular location. They would be using a wholly different transmitter/antenna setup.

Where are you located? You could go to tvfool.com, enter your address, and post the results here - but as a first cut, simply checking to see if your local PBS station changed RF frequencies when they dropped analog broadcasting might explain what's going on.

Thanks. Yes they did change frequencies. I had a new, never scanned converter box that I attached to one of our tv's and was again able to pick up the four PBS stations.
However, still not picking up with the older box. So it's not an antenna problem, but a problem with the converter box itself. Any suggestions?
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post #118 of 167 Old 06-01-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfandsf View Post

Thanks. Yes they did change frequencies. I had a new, never scanned converter box that I attached to one of our tv's and was again able to pick up the four PBS stations.
However, still not picking up with the older box. So it's not an antenna problem, but a problem with the converter box itself. Any suggestions?

Try disconnecting the antenna a perform and scan with no antenna. This will usually "reset" the channel map and allow a subsequent scan (with antenna) to pick up the available channels.

Also, keep in mind that the converter boxes have improved greatly in their sensitivity and ability to equalize multi-path reception problems. It may be possible that the old box simply isn't capable of working in your current signal environment.

It may still be an antenna issue in that the antenna can't supply on the new channel a good enough signal for what the old box needs.
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post #119 of 167 Old 06-01-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfandsf View Post

Thanks. Yes they did change frequencies. I had a new, never scanned converter box that I attached to one of our tv's and was again able to pick up the four PBS stations.
However, still not picking up with the older box. So it's not an antenna problem, but a problem with the converter box itself. Any suggestions?

ProjectSHO89 made a stab at an answer, but...

If you want us to try to diagnose what's going on, you need to give us more information

What market are you in? What channels are you trying to receive? The best way to answer these questions is to go to tvfool, enter your address, and post the url of the resultant plot and channel list here. (TVfool won't show us your exact address, so your privacy is protected.)

Tell us about your converter boxes - they don't all work the same way, so it would really help to know what box you have.
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post #120 of 167 Old 06-01-2009, 05:38 PM
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How is the Clearstream 4 antenna?
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