The Official AVS 'Mobile DTV' (M-DTV) Topic! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 510 Old 06-26-2011, 08:04 AM
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I guess this explains a few things, but also brings up a few more questions!

http://ceoutlook.com/car-mobile-dtv-...need-internet/

"Top broadcasters are now requesting that Mobile DTV products–even car products–include Internet capability, a development which cause more delays for this new technology.

Mobile DTV may need Internet to monitor viewersMobile DTV permits free digital over-the-air TV even while in motion, and even at high speeds, as in a car.

Suppliers say some major retailers are beginning to ask for Mobile DTV products but now there is a new bump in the road to market.

“Many of the broadcasters would like to have an Internet back channel….a return path of some sort, primarily for the purposes of looking at ratings…They want to know what people are watching,” said Dave Arland a spokesman for the Open Mobile Video Coalition (OMVC) that is promoting Mobile DTV.

Car TVs, tablets, and smartphones with Mobile DTV may be required by broadcasters to include some form of Internet connection or it may be “suggested” that products include this connection. Or there may be a tiered structure where a lower tier of products don’t offer Internet, but these will receive only a limited number of Mobile DTV channels.

The OMVC said that new device profiles are being drawn up for Mobile DTV equipment makers, and these will be made public at the end of June.

In general terms, the larger broadcasters want to require an Internet back channel, while smaller broadcasters see the Internet as an option. Some broadcasters, including Fox, will not permit any device to receive their Mobile DTV channels unless it has an Internet back channel, said several industry members.

A car Mobile DTV device would not need an always-on connection to the Internet. It could connect by WiFi periodically or it could have a home dock where it connected to the Internet periodically.

Some or many broadcasters are expected to encrypt their Mobile DTV broadcasts so that the Mobile DTV-ready products without Internet capability will not receive the encrypted signal. It may leave the tier of products with only a small channel package.

“In the end there may be 20 to 40 channels in any market and you may get 3 of those are that are totally non-encrypted,” said a supplier.

The Internet issue, he said, has sent his company “back to the drawing board” on Mobile DTV and so it may “skip the technology” altogether. Within two years, 4G will be more widely available and so there will be other ways of bringing free programming into the car, he said. A second supplier said its Mobile DTV product plans would be delayed.

Winegard has previewed at trade shows one of the few car devices for Mobile DTV with WiFi capability. The company will start selling its CIO Car Mobile DTV system to broadcasters (but not directly to consumers) this month, it said. The CIO system is basically a car tablet that can connect to the Internet via WiFi. It has a built in DVD player and iPod connectivity and you can also connect a gaming system to it. There’s a built-in Internet browser. The current version does not allow for a USB Air Card."
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post #272 of 510 Old 06-29-2011, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post

...Some broadcasters, including Fox, will not permit any device to receive their Mobile DTV channels unless it has an Internet back channel, said several industry members.

Well, IMO, this will kill mobile DTV in the US before it ever gets off the ground.
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post #273 of 510 Old 07-05-2011, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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From Broadcast Engineering

By Franklin McMahon

Quote:


American mobile TV watching increases

If anyone should know the habits of mobile TV viewing, it's Nielsen, and it just released a new study showing viewership continues to rise. Mobile TV viewing has increased over 20 percent in the last year alone, while internet TV viewing has spiked up an additional 34 percent. Regular TV set viewing was only up 0.2 percent in the past year, so it's clear that mobile and the Web are key areas that are rapidly expanding. Nielsen reported that Americans watched an average of 4.5 hours of content on mobile and tablet devices per month in the past year.

Several factors contributed to the jump in mobile viewing in the past year. First of all, most carriers increased their options for mobile TV, adding new services and enhancing existing ones. Add to this the constantly expanding range of smart phones able to play mobile TV content, more and more Americans now have the technology in the palm of their hand to view what they want. Also, companies continue to expand the amount of content on mobile services, with so much additional competition now, exclusive contracts for content and focusing on a wider spectrum of shows and movies are more appealing to consumers. Lastly, apps have only accelerated the boom, as many companies no longer have to arrange agreements with carriers, they merely have to produce an app that ties in to their streaming service and/or on-demand content, with the added appeal that most of these apps are free and some offer a taste of what is to come if the customer chooses to go for the monthly premium subscription deal.

In another expanding key area, cable television is getting into the act, with companies such as Comcast and Time Warner letting customers stream content to their mobile devices. Networks as well are joining with such recent releases as HBO GO.

Nielsen continues to track the shift towards mobile, and while the average American watched 158 hours of traditional TV per month in the past year, the sharp ramping up of mobile TV viewing numbers shows that viewing on devices is only going to continue to grow.


'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #274 of 510 Old 07-05-2011, 05:44 PM
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Thought I'd link this post about MDTV here. Speaks about the state of affairs with current tuners available, not much good to say about them
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post20634600
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post #275 of 510 Old 07-05-2011, 07:53 PM
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I don't like to make negative posts, but unless someone integrates mobile DTV into a cellphone, it's never going to happen. Of course, no telco wants that, so mobile DTV seems utterly doomed to me.

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post #276 of 510 Old 07-06-2011, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394
I don't like to make negative posts, but unless someone integrates mobile DTV into a cellphone, it's never going to happen. Of course, no telco wants that, so mobile DTV seems utterly doomed to me.

Ron
What about in a tablet that does not connect to the phone network?
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post #277 of 510 Old 07-20-2011, 06:40 AM
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On Pete Putnam's site:
Useful Gadgets: Hauppauge WinTV Aero-M ATSC/MH USB Tuner
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=1344
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post #278 of 510 Old 07-28-2011, 06:47 AM
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post #279 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 07:27 AM
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I received this TV from Amazon the same day I read the above post. I paid $199 for it but I am going to return it and order it from eBay based on the $154 price sold on eBay so I can save $46. I live 35 miles south of Atlanta and only received 2 channels at my home using the rod antenna. I hooked up an indoor DTV antenna I had and received around 10 DTV channels and 2 of the 3 mobile DTV channels from Atlanta. I played a movie using an USB drive and it played good. I like that feature and I like that it comes with a remote. I sent it back to Amazon yesterday and will order another one from eBay after my account is credited. I plan to use it when going to events downtown and in other cities so I will get another one.
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post #280 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 07:46 AM
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Thank you very much for posting that. There have been only a few Mobile DTV devices available and very few reviews of them, so far. So hearing from an actual end user, such as yourself, is great. I almost feel guilty that you have to return the first one to get the other one at a better price, but on the other hand, if it saves you a few bucks, then I am glad I posted that and it was helpful to you!
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post #281 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post

Thank you very much for posting that. There have been only a few Mobile DTV devices available and very few reviews of them, so far. So hearing from an actual end user, such as yourself, is great. I almost feel guilty that you have to return the first one to get the other one at a better price, but on the other hand, if it saves you a few bucks, then I am glad I posted that and it was helpful to you!

http://www.amazon.com/LG-DP570MH-7-I.../dp/B003EYV7EC

I have tested this model out in a large radius around mulitple counties and it works very well with just the factory antenna. Very good unit overall...IMO

Rob

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post #282 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 11:55 AM
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$99 door to door is sure a great price
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post #283 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 02:35 PM
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The LG is a great unit for the $99 price but it does not pick up regular ATSC DTV. It only picks up Mobile DTV. That is ok if a lot of stations have already started broadcasting Mobile DTV in your area. But, I don't expect all stations will broadcast Mobile DTV and that is what makes the Tivax Mobile 7 a great unit. It broadcasts regular ATSC DTV, Mobile DTB and you can view movies on an SD or USB drive.
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post #284 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

$99 door to door is sure a great price

Jeff, are you using this? I am in the same DMA as you, although I am further southeast in Rosemount, but so far I think only KSTP is broadcasting ATSC-M/H

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The LG is a great unit for the $99 price but it does not pick up regular ATSC DTV. It only picks up Mobile DTV. That is ok if a lot of stations have already started broadcasting Mobile DTV in your area. But, I don't expect all stations will broadcast Mobile DTV and that is what makes the Tivax Mobile 7 a great unit. It broadcasts regular ATSC DTV, Mobile DTB and you can view movies on an SD or USB drive.

That is the precise reason I haven't bought the LG.

I ahve been very tempted to get one of the RCA Mobile DTVs, but I just can't seem to find enough reviews to convince me to spring for it yet. And, of course, based on other reports from someone who is on this forum and works in the industry, maybe I ought to continue to wait!
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post #285 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 05:37 PM
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I use one of the LG DP570MH's I got used for $50 in the kitchen to keep an eye on my MH transmission..Wifey and I really like it..So I gave one to each of my engineers (and a local QAM expert too..) to use at home for "monitoring" use...I just ordered one of the Tivax's too..hopefully it will mount on the wall nicely and not take up counter space like the LG.

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post #286 of 510 Old 07-30-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post

Jeff, are you using this? I am in the same DMA as you, although I am further southeast in Rosemount, but so far I think only KSTP is broadcasting ATSC-M/H

Rabbitears only lists KSTP as having MDTV but show 11 and 29 as future and I read a while back that 2 was planning in the future.
I don't have the LG but lacking a regular ATSC tuner would be a deal breaker for me also, for the price I figured their had to be a catch.
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post #287 of 510 Old 07-31-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
I don't have the LG but lacking a regular ATSC tuner would be a deal breaker for me also, for the price I figured their had to be a catch.

There is a good reason for a unit not having both (aside for the cost)....the average Joe isn't smart enough to know the difference between legacy ATSC and ATSC MH..and would try to receive the legacy ATSC while driving and then complain it doesn't work. I can hear it now:

"I can get WCCB-MH fine in the car but WCCB-DT keep breaking up and I can't watch it..."

You have to remember these are the same folks who complain that their TV is speaking Spanish and wonder why we can't fix the sound.

Bob

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post #288 of 510 Old 08-01-2011, 12:54 PM
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I did see some RCA portable DTVs at the Radio Shack in the Mall Of America this afternoon. Although the ones on display were not ATSC-M/H, maybe just the fact that they had RCAs in store is an indication that they might carry the RCA Mobile DTVs in the future.
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post #289 of 510 Old 08-04-2011, 09:11 PM
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This is a pretty favorable review of the RCA DMT336R

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/...-pocket-tv.php

It's hard to believe it's been just 13 years since the digital TV transition started in 1998 when TV stations WFAA and WRAL first signed on the air.

Back then, watching digital TV' meant shelling out a couple thousand dollars for a large, energy-guzzling converter box and experimenting with different antennas to try and pull in the signals, which (more often than not) dropped out or froze up.

Fast-forward to 2011: The DTV transition has been history for two years. Every new TV has a built-in ATSC tuner, and the adaptive equalizers in that tuner work so well that signal drop-out from fading and multipath is mostly an unpleasant memory. In fact, ATSC set-top receivers are mostly a memory now, given that you can a new LCD or plasma digital TV for about $10 per diagonal inch.

Even computers can join in the fun, thanks to the latest generation of plug and play' USB stick tuners from companies like Hauppauge that let you use your laptop or desktop as a fully-featured DVR. Just add an antenna, and you're ready to go.

Along the way, several manufacturers found the time to bring out some models of portable digital TVs. This product category was pretty thin two years ago, but now there are several brands to choose from, among them the familiar white dogs of RCA (now owned by Audiovox). At the June CES Summer Line Show, RCA unveiled a bevy of portable digital TVs, several of which also receive the nascent MH (mobile handheld) DTV service.

The DMT336R falls into that category. It has a 3.5″ screen, runs for over 2 hours on a single charge, and does an excellent job pulling in both MH and regular over-the-air ATSC broadcasts.

WHAT'S IN THE BOX

There's not much to the DMT336R. It's a little bigger than a digital camera, and features a 4:3 TFT LCD screen. (Why RCA didn't use a widescreen aspect ratio for the LCD remains a mystery.) It has a power button on the side, just above the 5V power jack for recharging the internal battery pack, which is supposed to deliver three hours of viewing time. (It comes close!)

On the opposite side of the case are three connectors. The first is a SMB-type jack for an external antenna. (RCA didn't provide an adapter from this connector for the review.) There's also the usual composite video output connection with stereo audio, connected through a mini AV jack. You can also plug in a pair of headphones through a separate audio output jack.

The upper left of the TV housing hides a telescoping 10″ antenna, which can be rotated in any direction. That's plenty long enough for UHF TV reception, but a tad short for VHF. Even so, if you have enough signal strength at your location, you'll haul in high-band VHF DTV stations (channels 7-13) just fine.

For such a small TV, the menu is pretty loaded. ATSC and MH programs are tuned separately; you have to access different menus to scan for and select channels from each service. The main reason for that is the ATSC over-the-air standard uses MPEG2 digital video, while the MH service uses MPEG4.

Even though the LCD screen is 4:3, you can select a 16:9 aspect ratio for HD channels. You'll see black bars above and below the image (also known as letterboxing). But you should be aware that most HDTV programs are composed to favor a 4:3 safe area' so you'll still see the important stuff even if you opt to watch in 4:3 mode. There are two other aspect ratio settings that allow a partial zoom into the letterboxed image and a setting that takes a center cut' of the widescreen image.

When tuning in MH services, it takes a few seconds for an active channel to lock up. In the Philadelphia area, only WCAU (digital 10.1) was broadcasting MH when I tested the DMT336R. The long lock-up is due to the massive amounts of Forward Error Correction (FEC) used in the MH service. It's what keeps the signal present even when you are watching MH TV in a moving car, bus, train, or bicycle. (Wait - how do you watch TV on a bicycle?) You also can watch MH while walking, or in a sedan chair, or in a kayak, or while skiing. (OK, now I'm just being silly)

For MH and ATSC reception, we recommend pepperoni pizza and a nice Cabernet Blanc!

HOW IT TESTED

I've tried the DMT336R in a few locations, most of them stationary. In mid-July, I visited John Turner of Turner Engineering at home, w-a-y up in the hills of northern New Jersey. The elevation was about 700 feet and we had a line-of-sight path to New York City.

Not surprisingly, the DMT336R pulled in all of the available UHF stations, along with high-band VHF channels 7, 11, and 13. Reception on each channel was rock-steady using the internal whip antenna, although the position of the antenna was somewhat changed for a few channels. I also identified and pulled in MH broadcasts from WNBC, ION, and Telemunco. All of that error correction introduces lots of latency - it can take 5-6 seconds to lock up an MH broadcast, so don't expect fast channel changes in this mode. But you will be amazed at how stable an MH signal is once you're watching it, even if you move the TV around.

During these tests, John took out an older Eviant T7 portable ATSC receiver and we did a side-by side comparison. The DMT336R was clearly more sensitive on weaker ATSC signals, and that's probably because its adaptive equalizer is at least Gen 6. We also watched a Yankees game on WWOR-9 while enjoying pizza and a bottle of wine, and the battery held out for almost 3 hours. The internal audio isn't very powerful (900 milliwatts) - it's loud enough in a quiet room or with headphones, but will be hard to pick up in public spaces or out on your boat. So plan on using a pair of headphones while traveling.

My second round of tests were at home, using my rooftop antenna and the built-in whip. I pulled in all of the Philly ATSC stations, plus a single MH service on WCAU (NBC). My particular location isn't favorable for indoor DTV reception of any kind, save for megapower DTV station WFMZ in Allentown, PA (channel 46). So a powered antenna is a big help. Still, with WFMZ coming in, I could wander around the house and up and down stairs and still hold the signal 80% of the time. Pretty impressive performance!

Did I mention that the DMT336R also contains an FM radio? Just plug in a set of headphones and tune away - the headphone wires double as the FM antenna.

There is only a two-year difference between the receiver technology in the Eviant T7 and RCA's DMT336R, but that made for quite a difference in my tests.

THE WRAP-UP

Portable digital TVs have become so inexpensive that it makes plenty of sense to have a few around the house, especially if you suffer from frequent power outages and severe weather. Some portable DTV manufacturers have referred to these gadgets as hurricane TVs for that reason.

You can also catch your local sports team in action with the DMT336R. Want to sit on your boat on a Sunday afternoon and catch an NFL game? Or the Saturday baseball game of the week? Here's one way to do it. There are also plenty of retro' TV networks carried as secondary DTV channels these days (like This TV) that are fun to watch when traveling. With over 1700 digital TV stations broadcasting across the country, you'll find something to watch.

The DMT336R delivers the goods. Yes, it could use a more powerful speaker, and yes, it should have come with a widescreen display. But the DMT336R tunes ATSC and MH channels like a champ and costs only $169 (retail), and it's a low-cost way to access the new MH broadcast services.

You can find out more about the full line of RCA portable digital TVs at www.getmyelectronics.com.
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post #290 of 510 Old 08-13-2011, 12:56 PM
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Doug Lung checks out the RCA DMT-336R and the Hauppauge Aero-M USB tuner at http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/123282

I may need to get an Aero-M (for better fixed reception, not mobile)....
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post #291 of 510 Old 08-13-2011, 01:12 PM
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I bought an Aero-M and its fixed reception is VERY good. It beats out the Zenith DTT900s I have in the house. Haven't had a chance to play with the Mobile reception yet other than on a roof antenna.

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post #292 of 510 Old 08-14-2011, 07:33 PM
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I just noticed that several RCA Mobile DTV Car Tuner (Pocket Mobile DTV Car Tuner/Receiver Model DMT3BR) are on Ebay. I had been wondering when they might start showing up there. The MSRP is $139.00 and the Ebay price is $119.99. I noticed the seller is Ritzcamera. I wonder if that means that Ritzcamera is carrying these new, also, or if they just happen to re-sell the returns. The reason I am interested is I would really like to try one of these locally before I buy one.

It looks like it is the same price as ordering new http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/EP135475570.htm

(There disclaimer states: Ritzcamera and Ritzauctions on eBay are the official websites of Ritz Interactive, Inc, which includes RitzCamera, WolfCamera, CameraWorld and PhotoAlley. Ritz Interactive is a separately incorporated company based in Irvine, CA. Ritz Interactive outsources distribution and fulfillment of the products you order to Ritz Camera Centers' distribution facilities.)

It is cheaper still at some other retailers now http://www.google.com/search?q=RCA+M...w=1787&bih=802

Valley Seek carries three different models http://www.valleyseek.com/store/sear...cturer_id=4866

The Nerds also have DMT336R http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=cart&i=548794 http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?pa...le++Mobile+Dtv
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post #293 of 510 Old 08-21-2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

On Pete Putnam's site:
Useful Gadgets: Hauppauge WinTV Aero-M ATSC/MH USB Tuner
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=1344

I received my Hauppauge Aero-M from Amazon yesterday.
There is more cardboard and the box is much,much bigger than necessary since its mostly empty space inside which allowed the remote and cable to rattle around inside though the tuner itself was nicely held in place by the internal cardboard dunage/divider.

I have not had a chance to test it out as my main system nowadays is a mac pro desktop and I dont know if EyeTV supports this tuner? I guess I'll find out.

Update-I also have Equinox's "The Tube" (which I rarely use) and it appears to support the WinTV Aero, so maybe the Aero-M is close enough hardware wise that it will work? I will try tonight when I am at home.
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post #294 of 510 Old 08-27-2011, 12:59 PM
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post #295 of 510 Old 08-30-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
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.....I received my Hauppauge Aero-M from Amazon yesterday.....

Well, is the Hauppauge Aero-M a keeper then? I did notice that Best Buy now shows it on their webpage, but it lists SHIP TO STORE at the stores near me. I realize that it has been available online now for a little while, but I think now that it is at Best Buy it might possibly become slightly more mainstream.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Hauppaug...M%20&cp=1&lp=1

The one Amazon review looks pretty favorable.

http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1404.../dp/B00519EIAS

They do show them in stock at a Micro Center near me, so I might be tempted to get one of these soon.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0365680

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_aero-m.html
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post #296 of 510 Old 08-30-2011, 04:36 PM
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I've been recommending the Aero-M to anyone who asks. I haven't been able to test its M/H performance yet, but it blows every other tuner I own out of the water on regular ATSC.

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post #297 of 510 Old 08-30-2011, 05:57 PM
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^ Happy customer of the Aero-M (thanks Trip for the recommendation). There is a highly noticeable difference between it and other USB tuners when tuning marginal signals. At that price point it beats out even the AverTV Volar Max.

The only major con is having to use the WinTV 7 application from Haupague in order to watch the M/H channels. Thanks to DRM, you can't record many mobile streams either (in my case trying it with KNBC, KVEA/Telemundo, and KPXN/ION from Los Angeles).

For ATSC and clearQAM you can use the tuner with Windows Media Center. It also plays well with TSReader.
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post #298 of 510 Old 09-02-2011, 02:05 PM
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Last week shortly before the hurricane hit, Mike aka Falcon_77 dropped by with an Aero-M tuner here in Mystic, CT. We tried it out on my antenna and found no stations in CT or RI with an M-DTV signal. We did get WNBC out of New York at about 115 miles distance. Its ATSC signal was fadding in and out at a several min. rate with a few min of signal and a few min of no signal. The same signal feed to the Aero-M received the M-DTV signal with no loss of any video or audio as far as I could tell. We also tried WGBH out of Boston at about 75 miles. It was weaker than WNBC with a single frame of video picked up a couple of times in 15 min. The M-DTV signal was receivable continuously with quite a few frame drops. It was possible to follow the program content though. Mike has a picture of WGBH's spectrum which he may post when he has power available.
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post #299 of 510 Old 09-03-2011, 08:01 AM
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Mike sent me the spectrum of the signal from WGBH. It is really bad looking. The lowest and largest channel shown is channel 17. There appears to be no signal on channel 18. WGBH is channel 19. Its average SNR looks like about 5dB with a deep null in the center of the channel and no sign of the pilot carrier. Channels 20 and 21 have an ATSC signal that is too weak to be received. Channel 22 is stronger and can be received OK.
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post #300 of 510 Old 09-07-2011, 07:16 AM
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Decontis has just released a new and improved version of the MH Viewer.
However I have not had time to try it with the AERO-M yet.

http://www.mobile-dtv-viewer.com/DownloadATSC.html

Bob

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