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post #31 of 510 Old 04-20-2009, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post

I was just looking at CNET, but I think the thread here is more informative!

Typical.

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post #32 of 510 Old 07-16-2009, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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ION Press Release

ION Media Networks Launches Digital Broadcast "Triple Play" in New York City and Washington D.C.

"Triple Play" Combines Simultaneous Digital Broadcasts of High Definition TV, Multiple Digital Networks and Mobile DTV

Successful Prototype Demonstrations in Key Markets Illustrate Innovative Opportunities for Digital Broadcasters

West Palm Beach - June 29, 2009 - ION Media Networks today announced the launch of its Digital Broadcast "Triple Play" in New York City and Washington D.C. The DTV "Triple Play" includes the broadcast of the Company's flagship network, ION Television, in high-definition, two additional digital networks, plus Mobile DTV.

The successful digital TV transition has enabled new transmission capabilities, including Mobile Digital Television (Mobile DTV), a new digital format allowing broadcasters to use subchannels to transmit TV content to mobile devices. ION is among the first broadcasters to demonstrate the viability of all three technologies in one broadcast stream in the nation's largest TV market and the nation’s capital.

ION's focus on Washington D.C. is part of a broader initiative in support of the Open Mobile Video Coalition (OMVC), a trade group of over 800 commercial and public television stations, working to create a showcase for Mobile DTV in the nation’s capital to highlight the potential for expanding broadcast television beyond the living room to all mobile devices in the digital age.

"Digital technology lets us reach more homes, enables HD quality and new digital networks, as well as mobile reception," said Brandon Burgess, Chairman and CEO of ION Media Networks. "Among all these benefits, Mobile DTV may prove to be the most significant in the long run, allowing broadcasters to think beyond the living room and bring live television and real time information to consumers wherever they may be."

"The launch of ION's Mobile DTV signals in NYC and D.C. is a pay off from the industry's efforts to create a unifying technology standard," said Brett Jenkins, ION's Vice President of Technology. "The Mobile DTV eco system has now developed to the point that broadcasters are able to launch beta services, and we're beginning to think through consumer and business implementations. The work of the Open Mobile Video Coalition and its broadcast members have made this implementation possible, and we look forward to working with the industry to capitalize on its potential."

ION is using technology known as ATSC-M/H, which was developed by the Advanced Television Systems Committee specifically to enable delivery of television to mobile and handheld devices. In New York, where the signal is transmitted from ION's owned and operated station, WPXN, the mobile stream is broadcast alongside WPXN's HD signal and ION's two multicast channels. But it has additional formatting that allows it to be picked up by receivers that are mobile, such as phones or an in-vehicle screen. The signal is "in-band," meaning that it uses the existing DTV spectrum allocated to the station.

About ION Television
ION Television (www.iontelevision.com) is a general entertainment network which reaches over 96 million U.S. television households via its nationwide broadcast television, cable and satellite distribution systems. Launched in 2006, ION Television features popular TV series and movies from the award-winning libraries of RHI Entertainment, CBS Television, NBC Universal, Sony Pictures Television, Twentieth Television and Warner Bros. Parent company, ION Media Networks, Inc., owns and operates the nation's largest broadcast television station group. Using its digital multicasting capability, ION Media Networks has launched the digital TV brands qubo, a channel for children focusing on literacy and values, and ION Life, a channel dedicated to active living and personal growth. It also has launched Open Mobile Ventures Corporation (OMVION), a business unit focused on the research and development of portable, mobile and out-of-home transmission technology using over-the-air digital television spectrum. For more information, visit www.ionmedia.com.

About Open Mobile Video Coalition
The Open Mobile Video Coalition, a voluntary association of some 450 commercial broadcast stations across the U.S. who have been working to accelerate the development of Mobile DTV. Earlier this year, the OMVC announced that more than 70 stations in 28 markets across the U.S. are committed to launching the service, with nine ION stations included in this initial roll out. Other ION stations include WPPX in Philadelphia, WBPX in Boston, and WCPX in Chicago.

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post #33 of 510 Old 07-16-2009, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

ION Media Networks Launches Digital Broadcast "Triple Play" in New York City and Washington D.C.

"Triple Play" Combines Simultaneous Digital Broadcasts of High Definition TV, Multiple Digital Networks and Mobile DTV

Successful Prototype Demonstrations in Key Markets Illustrate Innovative Opportunities for Digital Broadcasters

{snip}

ION is using technology known as ATSC-M/H, which was developed by the Advanced Television Systems Committee specifically to enable delivery of television to mobile and handheld devices. In New York, where the signal is transmitted from ION's owned and operated station, WPXN, the mobile stream is broadcast alongside WPXN's HD signal and ION's two multicast channels. But it has additional formatting that allows it to be picked up by receivers that are mobile, such as phones or an in-vehicle screen. The signal is "in-band," meaning that it uses the existing DTV spectrum allocated to the station.

Yes even more opportunity/temptation to trash HDTV PQ ... And just what we need, more idiots on the road watching TV while driving.
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post #34 of 510 Old 08-04-2009, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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From Broadcast Engineering

Broadcasters showcase DTV ‘triple play’ in Washington, D.C.

Aug 3, 2009

The Open Mobile Video Coalition (OMVC) gave lawmakers and administration officials a firsthand look at the full potential of DTV, including HDTV, new digital channels and a preview of mobile DTV last week.

ION Media Networks’ WPXW-DT, FOX Television Stations’ WDCA-DT, Gannett Broadcasting’s WUSA-TV, NBC Universal’s WRC-DT, PBS’ WHUT-DT, MHz Networks’ WNVT-DT and Sinclair Broadcast Group’s WNUV-DT participated in the July 28 showcase of DTV’s capabilities in the foyer of the Rayburn House Office Building in Washington, D.C.

The showcase demonstrated to members of Congress how their constituents can benefit from the conversion to DTV broadcasting, said Dave Lougee, president of Gannett Broadcasting and OMVC executive committee member.

Leading up to the June transition to digital, the primary focus of the government and broadcasters alike was helping viewers with analog sets make the necessary preparations to continue receiving an over-the-air (OTA) TV signal, said Brandon Burgess, chairman and CEO of ION Media Networks. However, now “it’s time to showcase the great new services made possible by DTV,” he said.

Burgess, who also serves as the president of the OMVC, added that the DTV transition is making possible a “triple play” of new OTA services, including HDTV, free digital subchannels and mobile DTV. “I’m proud that ION was the first station on the air in Washington and New York with a mobile DTV signal,” he said. ION began broadcasting a mobile DTV signal June 13, the day after it signed on its new Washington, D.C., digital station.

The participation of the OMVC in the late July event served as a preview of a Mobile DTV Consumer Showcase that will go live later this year in the Washington, D.C., market. The showcase will provide a consumer test bed for mobile DTV content, services and features.

Besides the broadcasters, several companies and industry organizations participated in the Rayburn Building event, including LG Electronics, the National Association of Broadcasters, the Association for Maximum Service Television, the Advanced Television Systems Committee, the Minority Media and Telecom Counsel, PBS and the Association of Public Television Stations, along with manufacturers Dell, Harris, Kenwood, Roundbox, Rohde & Schwarz and Samsung.

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post #35 of 510 Old 08-04-2009, 06:43 PM
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Thank you for the update. I am looking forward to this. I will optimistically say it would be neat to see devices for this by Christmas 2009, but as a practical matter I am thinking Christmas 2010.
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post #36 of 510 Old 08-31-2009, 08:51 AM
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As I understand it, mobile TV sacrifices definition for more error correction. Could this technology help viewers "on the fringe" who suffer from pixels and dropouts? Could a person hook up his laptop or other mobile tv device to his outdoor antenna and expect better reception than that of a "non-mobile tv?"
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post #37 of 510 Old 09-01-2009, 09:10 AM
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YES.....but they may be sending out some sort of 24/7 Mini-News broadcast rather than the main program....
Or a PPV Blu-Ray Viewing Service....we'll just have to wait and see how this evolves....
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post #38 of 510 Old 10-18-2009, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
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From The New York Times

TV Stations Start Broadcasting to Mobile Gadgets
By Saul Hansell

As if you are not barraged with video choices from your cable system, YouTube, iTunes, Hulu, NetFlix, and Ye' Olde Video Store in the neighborhood, here comes yet another way to veg out: programs beamed over the air from your local TV station right to your cellphone.


Open Mobile Jonathan Levy and Eloise Gore of the Federal Communications Commission watch live, local broadcast TV on a mobile DTV device during a demonstration in Washington, D.C.

A group called the Open Mobile Video Coalition announced Thursday the completion of a standard that will let TV stations use a sliver of the new frequencies that Congress gave them for high-definition broadcasts for broadcasts to wireless devices.

TV on the cellphone isn't a new concept, of course. People can watch YouTube and other Web videos on some smartphones. Some carriers, like Verizon, also offer video clips on demand. This approach allows users to choose anything they want to watch, but it uses scarce capacity of the wireless data networks.

It is far more efficient to broadcast certain channels, allowing any device to tune in to a stream of programs, the way regular broadcast TV works. Qualcomm's Flo TV uses the broadcast approach to offer about 20 linear channels for a $15 monthly fee.

The new standard would allow TV stations to have both free and paid channels aimed at mobile devices using their existing spectrum.

On Friday, the coalition demonstrated the new service by taking a number of government officials on a bus ride around Washington during which they could lean back and watch TV.

The group said that at least 70 stations would begin broadcasting using the standard. Several electronics makers, including Samsung, LG and Dell, have produced prototype devices. It is first likely to be available on netbook computers, according to a report in Broadcasting and Cable.

The standard was devised for mobile phones, in part because watching TV on handsets has become common in parts of Asia. But so far, no wireless carrier in the United States has agreed to sell a handset with a tuner that can use the new standard. After all, why let people do something free when you can charge money for it instead?

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post #39 of 510 Old 10-19-2009, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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From Broadcast Engineering, By Michael Grotticelli

Mobile DTV standard approved by ATSC


In one DTV mobile test, WRAL-DT sent a signal from its Harris transmitter (with the required M/H exciter board) to LG Electronics plasmas screens equipped with M/H decoding technology onboard Capital Area Transit buses driving around Raleigh, NC. Microspace Communications provided wireless networking and digital signage system support. A systems integration company called Digital Recorders installed the equipment on the buses.



After more than three years of work, the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) has adopted a standard for sending video to mobile devices using the same spectrum now used for over-the-air television. It’s officially called the A/153 ATSC mobile DTV standard and is now available for real-world deployment.

The ATSC mobile DTV standard defines the technical specifications necessary for broadcasters to provide new services to mobile and handheld devices using their DTV transmissions. The goal for broadcasters is to extend their programming reach to a growing audience of new viewers — anywhere, anytime and at any speed (since the new mobile DTV signals can be received by viewers in the backseat of a moving car). The standard can also be used for transmission of new data broadcasting services.

The Open Mobile Video Coalition (OMVC), a consortium of some 800 broadcast stations, has tested the new mobile handheld (M/H) standard in several controlled field trials over the past two years with limited success, due to the lack of mobile devices with the necessary receiver chips inside. Yet the scheme of using part of a broadcaster’s 19.4Mb/s of allotted spectrum (and the 8-VSB modulation scheme) for mobile services have proven effective, even in moving vehicles. In trials, stations have used about 6MHz to transmit a single mobile stream of programming services that will not interfere with existing HD and multicast services.

The OMVC said some 70 stations hope to have mobile video services up and running by the end of the year. Getting the receivers in consumers’ hands will be the biggest challenge. Yet, cell phones might not be the first implementation of M/H into the market. New revenue models could include the transmission of advertising and news programming to public transit vehicles and nonmoving digital signage displays, as has been tested on public busses in Raleigh-Durham, NC, by WRAL-DT, the CBS affiliate owned by Capitol Broadcasting Company.

NAB executive vice president Dennis Wharton said that his organization “look[s] forward to the continuing parallel efforts of the Open Mobile Video Coalition to develop industry consensus on bringing these pro-consumer local TV services to market.”





The Open Mobile Video Coalition has staged a number of demonstrations at various conventions to show the capability to receive wireless signals using 8-VSB modulation and part of a broadcaster’s 19.4Mb/s DTV spectrum.



Gary Shapiro, president and CEO of the Consumer Electronics Association, said that approval of the standard would stimulate his members’ companies, including CE chipmakers and equipment manufacturers, to proceed with product development and deployment.

The new standard is mainly based on an initial proposal by engineers at Harris and LG Electronics —called Mobile-Pedestrian-Handheld (MPH). A number of slight refinements were made to fine-tune the specification to make it viable in different parts of the country where propagation can be problematic. Harris has developed a pretested mobile DTV package to transmit a mobile/handheld signal that is now available for deployment. It consists of a Harris Apex M2X exciter and the NetVX networking platform, which features a mobile video encoder, multiplexer and encapsulator. Harris is also working with Roundbox and Triveni Digital to integrate electronic program guide services for program stream and data information.

Whether using transmission technology from Harris or Axcera, Rohde & Schwarz and Thomson Grass Valley (which have all announced M/H-compliant systems), U.S. broadcasters can now deploy digital program services that can be available to consumers on devices ranging from in-car screens to portable DVD players, laptop computers and mobile phones.

Brandon Burgess, president of the OMVC and CEO of ION Media Networks, led a demonstration of the M/H service for government officials and others riding around Washingtion, D.C., last week to announce the approval of the standard. Seven Washington-area TV stations transmitted live local news, weather, sports and favorite programs to mobile DTV-compatible devices including mobile phones, laptop computers and netbook PCs. Senior representatives of the participating DTV stations, ATSC, the Association for Maximum Service Television (MSTV), the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) and technology companies participated in the dialog about the new standard and the new mobile services it will support.

“The leadership and support provided by OMVC made it possible for ATSC to adopt the mobile DTV standard and meet the aggressive timetable required by the industry,” said Mark Richer, president of ATSC. “To meet the technological challenges of sending digital television services to mobile and handheld devices within the existing DTV transmission was an impressive achievement made possible by industry cooperation. Consumers will soon reap the benefits from this innovative use of broadcast digital television.”

The five Washington-area stations participating in last week’s demonstration will also be conducting a consumer showcase of the new mobile DTV services over the next several months. Programming choices will not be limited to favorite local and network shows on mobile devices, but will also include live emergency alerts, local news and sports, as well as interactive services that are still in development.

Technology manufacturers such as LG Electronics, Samsung Electronics, Harris, Rohde & Schwarz and Dell have produced prototype devices and working transmission systems.

Beyond live broadcasts, the OMVC envisions mobile services such as emergency alerts that can be customized by market or location, live audio feeds, datacasting with traffic maps, closed captioning, clip casting sports and news highlights that could be stored in memory on a device, push video on demand for future viewing, time-shifted television, mobile digital video recording, interactive polling, electronic coupons, targeted advertising, and an electronic service guide for ease of tuning.

The OMVC is composed of 27 members that own and operate more than 450 commercial television stations, as well as the Association of Public Television Stations, Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Public Broadcasting Service, which represent an additional 360 public television stations.

The ATSC mobile DTV standard is based on vestigial side band (VSB) modulation, with enhanced error correction and other techniques to improve robustness and reduce power consumption in portable receivers, coupled with a flexible and extensible Internet Protocol (IP) based transport system, efficient MPEG AVC (ISO/IEC 14496-10 or ITU H.264) video, and HE AAC v2 audio (ISO/IEC 14496-3) coding. ATSC mobile DTV services are carried in existing digital broadcast channels along with current DTV services without any adverse impact on legacy receiving equipment.

The new standard document is now available online on the ATSC Standards page http://www.atsc.org/standards/ .

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post #40 of 510 Old 10-23-2009, 02:39 PM
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The bold parts of the quotes below are what concern me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

In trials, stations have used about 6MHz to transmit a single mobile stream of programming services that will not interfere with existing HD and multicast services.

Quote:


ATSC mobile DTV services are carried in existing digital broadcast channels along with current DTV services without any adverse impact on legacy receiving equipment.

The first quoted part sure seems to describe an independent channel for the mobile signal(s), which is the way I hope this system is deployed. Since ATSC signals can be broadcast on adjacent channels without the problems of NTSC, it should be easy to add channels to any given broadcast market that were not feasible in the analog era.

The second quoted part is incorrect, in my opinion. Reducing bandwidth of any current DTV services to make room for mobile TV signals will certainly have an adverse impact on legacy equipment. The picture quality will be reduced. At best, advances in ATSC/MPEG encoding that could have been used to improve existing signals might be used for mobile TV signals instead.

Thanks for the updates, Ken.

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post #41 of 510 Old 10-31-2009, 11:04 PM
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I will be trying something of an experiment. I took a Zenith DTT901 converter box and put it in my work vehicle today. I know that ATSC doesn't work in motion, but I am in the car most of the work day and I was wondering if this will work for TV audio while I am parked for lunch. Our local stations have news broadcasts from 11AM to 12:30 PM and I usually take my lunch break sometime during that time period. My DTT901 was sitting in my detched garage and wouldn't get much use this winter anyway, so I decided to Velcro it to a location in the car to keep it from shifting around. For power, I had a spare 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter that doesn't get used very often. So that just plugged into a a spare cigarette lighter jack. For audio, I took an MP3 adapter that has RCA jacks and connected directly to the auxiliary input on my in dash AM/FM stereo. The antenna is the questionable part for my right now. I am going to try a spare FM antenna first that is probably just a 1/4 wavelength of wire that terminates to an F connector. My normal work area is less than 20 miles from the transmitters at Shoreview MN. Anyway, what do you guys here think? Will this be an exercise in futility trying to get TV audio while parked? Also, are there any other antennas that I should be trying? The channels that I will be trying to listen to are:

4.1 (32) = 578-584 mHz
5.1 (35) = 596-602 mHz
9.1 (09) = 186-192 mHz
11.1 (11) = 198-204 mHz

Judging from the frequency ranges, I suppose ideally if I had an antenna resonant at about 195 mHz and 590 mHz, thus a 1/4 wave antenna cut to about 196 mHz would be 3/4 wave at 590 mHz. I will try my random wire antenna Monday, but if that doesn't work I will do some more experimenting. Also, I tried looking at the FCC records to determine if each of those are using horizontal polarity, but I couldn't tell from the FCC Database.
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post #42 of 510 Old 11-03-2009, 08:13 AM
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Reminds me of when I mounted my Heathkit FM Stereo Tuner in my car when I was commuting to college
back in the late-60's, incl a quick disconnect for home use. Stereo was nearly useless when mobile.

ATSC will work (sorta) when mobile, but it's going to die as you pick up speed and fergetit
when you're on the freeway. It will also suffer from building/overpass signal blockages
and multipath dropouts (multiple antennas help).

Factory AM/FM receiver in my '98 Volvo Wagon has separate amplified FM Antennas
in each rear-side window...like folded dipoles...but both Horiz & Vert Polarization.
[A Vee, like RabbitEars, would also provide Horiz & Vert Polarization Diversity.]
When one antenna is in a null, it is likely the other is still receiving a signal.
But it probably doesn't implement an optimized Maximal Ratio Combiner (MRC),
instead using a simple switch to swap antennas when it detects poor quality.

You might find the fol. ATSC Mobile Test of interest:
http://lrts.gel.ulaval.ca/publicatio...ication_12.pdf

In Brazil's SET-ABERT Test Report, they found that ATSC had only a small amount of degradation
when a "typical" signal (with multipath) was also subject to Doppler in the range of 1-5 Hz and
suffered 8-15 dB SNR degradation for 25 Hz Doppler shift:
See Sec 6 starting pg 213: http://www.set.com.br/artigos/testing.pdf

Australia's FACTS Test Summary (see VU 33 & 34) shows Doppler shift is much higher on UHF:
http://happy.emu.id.au/lab/lectures/...e/dtfsmpte.ppt

and a theoretical paper:
http://itl.knu.ac.kr/member/moon/consumer_Nov_2003.pdf

================================================
New ATSC-M/H waveforms tolerate high Doppler shifts & lower SNRs with improved Error Correction.
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post #43 of 510 Old 11-03-2009, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post

I will be trying something of an experiment. I took a Zenith DTT901 converter box and put it in my work vehicle today. I know that ATSC doesn't work in motion, but I am in the car most of the work day and I was wondering if this will work for TV audio while I am parked for lunch. Our local stations have news broadcasts from 11AM to 12:30 PM and I usually take my lunch break sometime during that time period. My DTT901 was sitting in my detched garage and wouldn't get much use this winter anyway, so I decided to Velcro it to a location in the car to keep it from shifting around. For power, I had a spare 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter that doesn't get used very often. So that just plugged into a a spare cigarette lighter jack. For audio, I took an MP3 adapter that has RCA jacks and connected directly to the auxiliary input on my in dash AM/FM stereo. The antenna is the questionable part for my right now. I am going to try a spare FM antenna first that is probably just a 1/4 wavelength of wire that terminates to an F connector. My normal work area is less than 20 miles from the transmitters at Shoreview MN. Anyway, what do you guys here think? Will this be an exercise in futility trying to get TV audio while parked? Also, are there any other antennas that I should be trying? The channels that I will be trying to listen to are:

4.1 (32) = 578-584 mHz
5.1 (35) = 596-602 mHz
9.1 (09) = 186-192 mHz
11.1 (11) = 198-204 mHz

Judging from the frequency ranges, I suppose ideally if I had an antenna resonant at about 195 mHz and 590 mHz, thus a 1/4 wave antenna cut to about 196 mHz would be 3/4 wave at 590 mHz. I will try my random wire antenna Monday, but if that doesn't work I will do some more experimenting. Also, I tried looking at the FCC records to determine if each of those are using horizontal polarity, but I couldn't tell from the FCC Database.

Everything sounds fine for stationary DTV reception, but you'll have to try your antenna ideas to see if they will work. I'd try an inexpensive VHF/UHF unit, or rabbit ears and a hoop, placed on the roof of the car.

The fact you're in a stationary car as opposed to a residence is not a concern. You are now faced with the same issues as any other DTV reception, and at ~20 miles you probably have a decent shot. The only issue I can think of, is that without video, you'll be flying in the dark for the on screen info; set up, menus, channel number, etc.

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post #44 of 510 Old 11-03-2009, 03:35 PM
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I now have two days experience with this. What I have learned so far is that the "random length" wire antenna did not work very well for me. LAst night I switched to a rigid multi-band scanner antenna. I have it inside the vehicle horizontally. I seems to work great on Channels 4 & 5. These are the channels of greatest interest to me since there are newscasts from 11 AM to noon and then noon to 12:30PM. As far as set-up, menus, and channel numbers, that is not a problem for me. I set it up ahead of time, so all I really have to do is use the up down button for channel selection. For example, when I finished listening to Channel 4 this afternoon I tuned it back to Channel 5 and when I turn it on tomorrow between 11 AM and noon I should be all set. I may still do some more antenna experimenting. In as much as I am pretty happy with audio reception on 4 & 5, if I could get an antenna that also receives well on 9 & 11, that would be icing on the cake. For the amateur radio operators here, you might notice that 9 & 11 are actually pretty close to the amateur 220 mHz band. The trouble is, it is actually lower in frequency, thus requiring a long antenna. Perhaps the easiest would be to get a 1/4 wave 2 meter antenna and cut it for 195 mHz.
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I just read this paper that said that the ATSC M/H payload data rate is 312 kb/s and the total data rate with minimum FEC is 917 kb/s. Could anyone tell me the payload/total data rate for the current standard system for both HD and SD so I'll have something to compare with? Thanks!

http://wwwcms.grassvalley.com/docs/W...DT-4107M-1.pdf
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post #46 of 510 Old 12-14-2009, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aa72dallas View Post

I just read this paper that said that the ATSC M/H payload data rate is 312 kb/s and the total data rate with minimum FEC is 917 kb/s. Could anyone tell me the payload/total data rate for the current standard system for both HD and SD so I'll have something to compare with? Thanks!

http://wwwcms.grassvalley.com/docs/W...DT-4107M-1.pdf

Unfortunately, that paper doesn't describe the possible rates very well. As it turns out, there are many other M/H payload rates.

The main ATSC data/payload rate is 19.39 Mbps. There are eight possible MDRL (Main Data Rate Loss) rates. They are:

0.917 Mbps
1.834 Mbps
2.750 Mbps
3.667 Mbps
4.584 Mbps
5.501 Mbps
6.418 Mbps
7.334 Mbps

Depending on which MDRL rate is used and how much FEC is used at that MDRL, the M/H payload rate can range from 2.528 Mbps down to 0.154 Mbps.

All of the possible combinations are shown in Table 6.1 and Table 6.2 of the specification.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a153/A...ansmission.pdf

Ron

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post #47 of 510 Old 12-15-2009, 06:32 PM
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Thanks dr1394. Also I was wondering what percentage of mbps are for payload and what percentage of mbps are for error correction with HD (non-mobile) TV. I think I read that for every 188 bytes of payload there are 20 bytes for error correction with HDTV. Is that right?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aa72dallas View Post

Thanks dr1394. Also I was wondering what percentage of mbps are for payload and what percentage of mbps are for error correction with HD (non-mobile) TV. I think I read that for every 188 bytes of payload there are 20 bytes for error correction with HDTV. Is that right?

The symbol rate of ATSC 8VSB is 684/286 * 4500000 = 10.76... Msymbols/s. Note that the use of an integer multiple of 4.5 MHz was used so that 8VSB interferes less with NTSC. Each symbol carries 3 bits (8 levels), so the raw data rate is 32.28... Mbps. A 2/3 rate Viterbi/Trellis convolutional code is used along with the 20 byte Reed-Solomon code for error correction. There's also some synchronization data that takes 312/313 of the payload.

The final payload rate is 2 * 188/208 * 312/313 * 684/286 * 4500000 = 19.392658... Mbps.

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post #49 of 510 Old 12-18-2009, 09:08 AM
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NIT: The low-rate RS-CRC is primarily a parity check for ERROR DETECTION, after the
Trellis/Convolutional Code does its ERROR CORRECTION job.
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post #50 of 510 Old 12-18-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

NIT: The low-rate RS-CRC is primarily a parity check for ERROR DETECTION, after the
Trellis/Convolutional Code does its ERROR CORRECTION job.

No, that's silly. You don't need 20 bytes just to detect errors. That can be done
with a 16-bit CRC. Reed-Solomon is an error correcting code.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed%E2...ror_correction

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post #52 of 510 Old 12-19-2009, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post

I now have two days experience with this. What I have learned so far is that the "random length" wire antenna did not work very well for me.

Last night, I shoved a 6" twist tie into the coax port of my DTT901 and was picking up the five stations below with green dots beside them:

Not even a blip on the VHFs, though.

Quote:


...9 & 11 are actually pretty close to the amateur 220 mHz band. The trouble is, it is actually lower in frequency, thus requiring a long antenna...

That's one of the (many) problems with VHF. Nobody wants to futz with huge antennas. And certainly not for mobile.
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post #53 of 510 Old 12-23-2009, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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From Broadcast Engineering

WTVE-TV deploys ATSC-M/H mobile DTS trial

Dec 22, 2009 , By Phil Kurz

WTVE-TV, the RNN-owned TV station serving Reading and Philadelphia, PA, has launched a trial of an ATSC-M/H mobile DTV distributed transmission system (DTS).

The station, which has operated its DTS network of eight transmitters since October 2007, added support for the mobile-handheld standard in August with technology and assistance from Axcera, Harmonic and Expway as well as consumer receivers from LG, Kenwood and Pixtree. The Merrill Weiss Group provided coverage analysis and DTS system design services.

According to WTVE-TV general manager Todd Stewart, the reason behind the station’s initial deployment of a single-frequency network two years ago was twofold: to ensure coverage in portions of its service area obstructed by Pennsylvania’s mountains and to get its signal into the Philadelphia market without creating adjacent channel interference for the city’s CBS-owned KYW-TV.

The trial of the ATSC A/110B DTS standard has given RNN the chance to learn what’s possible with its single-frequency network and see firsthand how it can be used to deliver TV to receivers on the go, he said. So far, Stewart like what he sees. “What I have been most impressed by is the way this new standard’s forward error correction has overcome all of the anomalies, like Doppler shift and multipath, encountered as you are traveling down the road at 70mph,” Stewart said.

To convert the station’s DTS transmission infrastructure to support the new mobile-handheld standard, Harmonic supplied its ProStream 4000 live multiscreen transcoders and Expway provided its FastESG system for the station’s headend. These feed the Axcera ATSC M/H preprocessor/mux and DTxA2B distribution transmission adapter. Additionally, each transmitter site uses an Axcera Axciter modulator with DTS slave and M/S postprocessor functions.

According to Stewart, tests are proceeding with consumer receivers to ensure the station has no coverage gaps with its new mobile-handheld service.

While Stewart is pleased with the progress of the trial and how well mobile DTV receivers have performed with his station’s mobile-handheld signal, he questions the timing of proposals under consideration at the FCC to clear some or all spectrum of full-power TV service to support anticipated demand for wireless broadband service as part of a national broadband plan.

“Speaking for myself, I am skeptical and very hesitant to give up spectrum at this point,” Stewart said. “We are just too close to something here.”

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #54 of 510 Old 01-26-2010, 04:25 PM
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Mobile DTV demo this spring

Only broadcasters can deliver this kind of TV

Published Jan. 25, 2010

By Steve Behrens

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv1002mobile.shtml

Another DTV transition is coming soon, and advocates think it will be a hit with Americans. If broadcasters are lucky, it'll also be a hit with the FCC.

With the commission's Broadband Plan brigade making noises about the rationality and economic payoff of moving TV to wired delivery systems and satellite--freeing up more spectrum for consumers' mobile devices--here's a kind of TV that only broadcasting can transmit: TV received in a moving car.

"You cannot overstate the importance of mobile to broadcasting," said Mark Richer, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee, at the NETA Conference this month in Las Vegas. Richer's committee put together the DTV standard in 2006 and last October wrapped up the Mobile DTV standard. "The ramifications of going to Mobile are far greater than for the switch to digital."

Washington policymakers will get an eyeful in March or April when the Open Mobile Video Coalition stages a "consumer showcase" on eight stations, including two pubTV channels --Howard University's WHUT and MHz Networks' WNVT in suburban Virginia.

The coalition includes more than 20 commercial TV station groups, including Fox, NBC, Univision, Ion and Sinclair, plus PBS, CPB and APTS.

PBS Chief Engineer Jim Kutzner, active in the Open Mobile Video Coalition promoting the technology, noted at NETA that it's the first time in his career that a new TV standard will move to lower specs. The image is composed of just 416 pixels by 240 lines. But you don't need high-def for the kids in the back seat of a Dodge Caravan.

Participants in the Mobile DTV test in D.C. will try watching on an array of new receiving devices--many of which debuted this month at the Consumer Electronics Show--such as Dell Inspiron Mini 10 netbook computers, Samsung Moment phones, LG mobile TV sets and Valups' Tivit portable receivers that feed portable monitors via Wi-Fi.

Stations will use Harris and Rohde & Schwarz equipment to add the signal to their DTV transmissions.

The showcase isn't a test of the technology, Richer said, but a test of what consumers think of it.

What will viewers get? Public TV leaders at NETA predicted Mobile DTV will be used for simulcasts of live TV as well as weather alerts, datacasts of traffic maps and sports scores, radio with pictures and interactive brainstorms yet to come, CPB is backing a PBS experiment with a 24-hour children's TV service.

Though commercial broadcasters are mum about their business plans, said CPB Senior Vice President Mark Erstling, they agree that kidvid is Mobile DTV's "killer app."

There's even hope that Mobile DTV will seduce 18-to-24-year-old "millenials" to watch news and public affairs TV, said Lonna Thompson, general counsel of the Association of Public Television Stations, speaking at the NETA Conference. A survey indicated their level of interest would double, she said, because they'd no longer be "tethered" to a set in the living room.

Mobile DTV may be able to do a tolerable imitation of cable: Planners say broadcasters in D.C. will air at least 20 different Mobile channels during the tryout this spring.

It can also do a limited imitation of video-on-demand by "clipcasting"--constantly downloading, in advance, an array of popular videos to be stored in users' receivers--though it won't let users choose among every video on the Web.

Where it may shine is fulfilling past visions of interactive TV that cable has failed to realize. If the mobile receiver is a cell phone, it can provide a return path for ordering pizzas, voting on American Idol or whatever users want to click

"There will be great businesses built in Mobile DTV," predicted Andy Russell, senior v.p, PBS Ventures, at the NETA Conference. "We think the possibilities are enormous with this new platform." Researchers predict Mobile will generate $1 billion a year in ad sales, with interactivity sweetening the profitability. He anticipates commercial broadcasters' ad sales will rise further when they work out ways to hyperlocalize service, promoting services geographically close to viewers.

There are even revenue enticements for public TV. The FCC regards datacasting as an "ancillary and supplementary" nonbroadcast service, for which public TV stations can earn revenues, said Thompson. The commission would require that the station pay it a 5 percent fee on any such revenues, she said. The station also must maintain a broadcast signal using 4.7 mbps of its bitstream, Kutzner said.

One possibility is that cell carriers will lease capacity on broadcast signals to haul video. Compared to the way some phone companies transmit video, one circuit per viewer, it's an economic winner, said Kutzner. Some cell companies spend $4 an hour per video user for transmission while Mobile DTV in a large market, reaching many viewers at once, would spend 1 cent per viewer\\

Mobile DTV has been under discussion for a decade and OMVC was formed in 2007 and ATSC's standard-setting work began in June 2008. Mobile wasn't dreamt up to help broadcasters keep spectrum, but "it's fortunate we were so far down the road," Kutzner told Current. "It's a very good illustration" of broadcasting's capabilities.

"When [Mobile receivers are] in the consumers' hands, the government won't have the nerve to take them away," said Erstling.

No FCC action is required to approve Mobile DTV, advocates said, because it fits within the DTV standard defined by the Advanced Television Systems Committee.

While wired broadband may be the rational choice to deliver TV to the multitudes in their homes, broadcasting is a rational option for delivering it to receivers on the go.

"It is a great way to provide content that is widely used. It is inherently efficient," Richer said at NETA. "We need to . . . leverage those benefits inherent in broadcasting."

No go for low VHF channels

Mobile isn't an option for stations on the lower VHF channels, Kutzner said at NETA. The physics of broadcasting make it impractical because the antennas to receive Mobile on Channels 2 through 6 would be "so large that they wouldn't make any sense." Higher VHF channels through 13 would be less handicapped. But UHF stations generally can provide excellent coverage within 15 miles and good coverage within 40 miles, he said.

The technology has off-the-shelf aspects. It uses the Internet protocol for transmission, mpeg video and iPod audio. To make the Mobile signal receivable in a speeding vehicle, however, the signal must carry a ton of data for forward error correction. The extra data helps the receiver instantly reconstruct content if it doesn't catch all the bits accurately.

Ordinary DTV for fixed receivers already reserves a third of its bitrate for error correction (the whole broadcast DTV channel accommodates 27 mbps, Kutzner said, not the 19.4 mbps we usually hear about).

For Mobile DTV, the transmitter uses, in addition, 66 percent to 84 percent of the Mobile signal's capacity, for error correction, Kutzner told Current.

For broadcasters, Mobile DTV is an add-on to DTV transmissions.

A broadcaster's big commitment is a portion of the TV channel. Of the total 19.4 megabits per second payload in a standard broadcast channel, a Mobile channel would take about 3 mbps, Kutzner said.

Then there's the cost of accessorizing the transmitter--$75,000 to $200,000, Erstling said at NETA.

It's cheaper for stations with newer transmitters; they may need only a software upgrade. Older transmitters would need a new exciter, mobile multiplexer and a post-processor that cost, altogether, $75,000 to $150,000 for one standard-def channel and $10,000 to $20,000 per each additional channel, Kutzner told Current.

For broadcasters interested in learning more, ATSC will hold a day-long seminar on Mobile DTV Feb. 3, 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. in Washington, D.C. The committee's website is taking seat reservations at atsc.org/seminars/mobile10.php.
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post #55 of 510 Old 01-26-2010, 04:37 PM
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"You cannot overstate the importance of mobile to broadcasting," said
Mark Richer, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee...

------

Too bad they didn't realize this when designing/adopting the ATSC system.
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post #56 of 510 Old 01-26-2010, 09:26 PM
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Garmin Nuvi 1490TV

I see that Europe announced the Garmin Nuvi 1490TV for that market, I suspect that something like this will be available in the United States if ATSC-M/H ever takes off.

garmin -- NaviGadget

Garmin Nuvi 1490TV Supports Digital Broadcast TV

Garmin nuvi 1490TV adds soaps and sports to GPS | GPS Obsessed
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post #57 of 510 Old 02-15-2010, 06:19 AM
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The New York Times - February 15, 2010
Local TV for Devices on the Move
By ERIC A. TAUB

Who has time to sit on the couch and watch TV anymore? In the last 10 years, broadcasters have lost 25 percent of their audience. So to win back some viewers, the industry has a plan to grab their attention while they are on the move.

Beginning in April, eight television stations in Washington, D.C., will broadcast a signal for a new class of devices that can show programming, even in a car at high speed. In all, 30 stations in Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle and Washington have installed the necessary equipment, at a cost of $75,000 to $150,000.
.....
Full story http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/15/bu.../15mobile.html
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post #58 of 510 Old 02-16-2010, 01:44 PM
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I would suspect that if more TV stations start broadcasting to mobile devices, that woudl hopefully lead to stations upgrading their transmitters and antennas to broadcast over a larger range so both mobile devices and home OTA TV viewers can better reception.
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post #59 of 510 Old 03-01-2010, 03:40 PM
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There will soon be yet another choice of GPS DTV for the DVB-T crowd:

http://www.mio.com/miocebit2010/Moov...rtainment.html
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post #60 of 510 Old 03-06-2010, 03:27 PM
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What devices are avaliable to receive these Mobile DTV streams and display them today.
What stations around the country are actually broadcasting Mobile DTV channels today?

I should fire up TSreader and check for any new parasitic streams from all my locals.
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