EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Philips MANT510



Channel Master 4220 with CM 7777 amp on roof
DB2 with Channel Master 7777 amp on roof
RS 1880
RS DA-5200
RS 15-1892 UFO
Channel Master 4220 unamped indoors
DB2 unamped indoors
Winegard SS-3000
RCA ANT1500
Classic Single Bow Tie
My First Attempt at the Coat Hanger Antenna, Youtube Video Specifications unamped
Terk HDTVa
Philips Silver Sensor
Philips MANT 510
RCA ANT108 (very similar to the RCA ANT110 and the Philips MANT110 and others)
Channel Master 4030
Philips MANT940
RS 1868 Delta
RCA ANT1020
Terk TV-5
Terk TV-1 without Loop
RS FM Dipole
Jensen TV-931
RS 1870

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post #362 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Philips MANT510

I concur with your revised assessment of the MANT510. It is currently THE antenna I'm using on my bedroom TV (three-year-old 20" Sony Trinitron CRT) It is the only indoor antenna I've acquired which provides stable reception on KIRO-DT - a 2-edge signal which is somewhat difficult to receive at my location - CBS (39.1 - virtual 7.1) and RTN (39.2 - virtual 7.2). I really like watching Matlock and Hawaii Five-O on RTN, even though it's in regular standard-def PQ.

The RCA ANT110 gets higher signal-strength numbers, but it seems that the MANT510's flat-panel UHF element is a bit less distracted by multipath interference than the standard UHF loop, and the amplifier is decent quality compared to many I've used. In my house, the MANT510 is fairly placement-sensitive (though less than the Silver Sensor), a tiny movement will make the difference. In my particular condo bedroom, the MANT510 seems to work well, though I've read that these units sometimes lose their amplification quality over time.

Any info on the Philips' junior colleague, the MANT410?
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post #363 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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RS 1868 Delta

I mounted this on the 12ft coax and place it on the center ledge right where all the bow ties and the RCA ANT1500 and DA-5200 and Philips MANT940 went....and its performance was pretty good...but not up to the RCA ANT1500 or Single Bow Tie.

Channel Master 4220 with CM 7777 amp on roof
DB2 with Channel Master 7777 amp on roof
RS 1880
RS DA-5200
RS 15-1892 UFO
Channel Master 4220 unamped indoors
DB2 unamped indoors
Winegard SS-3000
RCA ANT1500
Classic Single Bow Tie
My First Attempt at the Coat Hanger Antenna, Youtube Video Specifications unamped
Terk HDTVa
Philips Silver Sensor
Philips MANT 510
RCA ANT108 (very similar to the RCA ANT110 and the Philips MANT110 and others)
RS 1868 Delta
Channel Master 4030
Philips MANT940
RCA ANT1020
Terk TV-5
Terk TV-1 without Loop
RS FM Dipole
Jensen TV-931
RS 1870

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #364 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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For the record, I had the Silver Sensor and the Terk HDTVa in the window as well. However the RS UFO was doing just fine on the Oppo.

MANT510 and RCA ANT110 in the window, as well. The Delta too and the ANT1020.

EDIT Channel Master in the window.

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post #365 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 08:46 PM
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Is the RCA ANT1500 rating based on its non-amplified performance, or using an external amp?
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post #366 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 09:01 PM
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seatacboy: Re - the MANT410.

I had the 410 and returned it pretty quick. Our old unamped rabbit ears / loop trounced it. We've got towers basically 10 and 20 miles out, and the only channel it could pull in was WLNS6 which has the strongest signal and is on the closest tower. For comparison, our unamped cheapie pulls in the big 4 network broadcasts just fine (we attached a crummy RCA amp to it and now it grabs PBS too).

I didn't get a 510 to compare it to, but I can't fathom the 510 being worse.
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post #367 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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seatac, Could you remove your quotation of the list its confusing enough already. I know sorry.

I just put everthing in the window. Everything below the gap didnt go in the window.

Here is the list with everything in the same position with equal runs of coax. Except for the RS UFO.

And yes that is the RCA ANT1500 without amplification, all non amplified units are unamplified in that list. All amplified units are amplified by their own integrated amps.

Channel Master 4220 with CM 7777 amp on roof
DB2 with Channel Master 7777 amp on roof
RS 1880
RS DA-5200
RS 15-1892 UFO
Channel Master 4220 unamped indoors
DB2 unamped indoors
Winegard SS-3000
RCA ANT1500
Classic Single Bow Tie
My First Attempt at the Coat Hanger Antenna, Youtube Video Specifications unamped
Terk HDTVa
Philips Silver Sensor
Philips MANT 510
Philips MANT940
Channel Master 4030
RCA ANT108 (very similar to the RCA ANT110 and the Philips MANT110 and others)
RS 1868 Delta
RCA ANT1020
Terk TV-5
Terk TV-1 without Loop
RS FM Dipole

Jensen TV-931
RS 1870
_______________

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #368 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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MANT940 in window tested again and added to the last list.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #369 of 3329 Old 06-30-2008, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the confusion. That is everthing in the same North Facing window with 12ft of coax or 2 6 footers joined. Except the RS UFO and the 2 straglers at the bottom, adn the stuff on the roof. I feel that is an accurate accounting.

The unamped loops all performed similarly, dropping my 3 toughest stations.

The MANT510 and MANT940 and Channel Master 4030 brought in everything but my 2 weakest stations.

The Silver Sensor and The HDTVa and Youtube brought in everything but my weakest station, but required lots of fussing. The Youtube less so.

The RCA ANT1500 and the Single Bow Tie brought in all but my weakest station and didnt require fussing.

The RS DA-5200 to the Winegard SS-3000 brought in all my stations, but had some dropouts on my weakest station.

The UFO may need to move up one notch.

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post #370 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 07:16 AM
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I'll be curious to see what happens if you put the UFO near that window. Might start pulling in NASA radio chatter *grin*
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post #371 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 07:19 AM
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I picked this unit up last night after going into Radio Shack to see their outdoor antenna selection. Looks like with everything I'll need for an outdoor set up from there would run me close to $130. The salesman asked if I had tried indoor antennas and I told him I've tried two RCAs and the Terk listed in this thread. None worked for all the local channels - I was only able to pick up three out of six channels in HD. He mentioned that he had one UFO unit left and that nobody had returned that unit. He raved and raved about it and said that a lot people come in with the same problem as me and it solved their problems. I went home anxious to try this...alas the same result for me. I could still only pick up a two VHF stations and only one of four UHF stations. Is there something else I should try with the UFO unit before returning it and putting a wrinkle in the Radio Shack's salesman perfect record? I'm not too savvy with tuning antennas as I'm just getting into this. Should I just go with an outdoor setup? I can provide more info to my location and maybe someone could help me analyze my antenna readout/report?
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post #372 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 07:58 AM
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Definitely at least post a zip code (or your TV Fool report), so folks can give you an idea of whether an indoor antenna will meet your needs. If you're more than 20 miles from the towers, indoor starts to get real dicey unless you're on a hill or there's nothing in the way.

Also, what's around you? Lots of trees? Lots of buildings? In a valley? Or clear all-around? Always helpful info

One suggestion I have for the UFO--try it in different spots if you can, especially near a window (facing the direction of the towers is even better).

And, last but not least, make sure the switch on the back is set to TV and not AUX. Out of the box, the switch on mine was set to AUX, and I was quite confused for a couple minutes wondering why I pulled in no signal.

Edit: Just for the heck of it, I punched Tallahassee FL into the TV Fool locator. Obviously, that's not an exact location down to street level, but it does return some interesting info. NBC and ABC are broadcasting at barely 8kW at 24 miles away! I think you're going to need outdoor for that. Now, the good news is, after the transition they're going to increase their transmit strength to 1000kW and 933kW. If you get CBS now, you'll get NBC and ABC then too.
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post #373 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I did break out the UFO last night and put it in the window, with the same orientation and thus settings as last night.....I set it on top of the lamp, just below all of the other units in the North facing window and pointed at the Charleston towers at 45 miles and 27 miles. With that one setting I was locking a steady signal from my weakest channel, running the table, and getting reception from my alternate PBS station to the South West at 23 miles without moving the orientation of the antenna within the disc, all on position 8. Its moving above the RS DA-5200, which also did stellar.

It seems that position in a sweet spot, cable length, and atmospherics were all distorting the performance rankings. Fascinating. The RS Single Bow Tie was doing a little bit better on on 6ft coax cable and its 3 ft twin lead, as well....instead of the 12ft coax. Also, all the units from the RCA ANT1020 up to the RS UFO were picking up the alternate PBS on the backside while positioned to face Charleston, except for the Silver Sensor and HDTVa, which required a turn, to lock it in without dropouts.

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post #374 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Im returning or selling these units.

Channel Master 4030
Terk TV-5
Terk TV-1
Jensen TV-931
RS 1870
RCA ANT1020
Philips MANT940
Winegard 4400
xg91

Im keeping

RS 1868 Delta
RCA ANT108
Philips MANT510
Terk HDTVa
Silver Sensor
DB2
Winegard SS-3000
RS 1892 UFO
RS DA-5200
RS Single Bow Tie
Channel Master 4220

for further use and testing...

and Im picking up these units to test

Philips MANT950
RCA ANT806
Terk TV-55

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post #375 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fajitamosaic View Post

Definitely at least post a zip code (or your TV Fool report), so folks can give you an idea of whether an indoor antenna will meet your needs. If you're more than 20 miles from the towers, indoor starts to get real dicey unless you're on a hill or there's nothing in the way.

Also, what's around you? Lots of trees? Lots of buildings? In a valley? Or clear all-around? Always helpful info

One suggestion I have for the UFO--try it in different spots if you can, especially near a window (facing the direction of the towers is even better).

And, last but not least, make sure the switch on the back is set to TV and not AUX. Out of the box, the switch on mine was set to AUX, and I was quite confused for a couple minutes wondering why I pulled in no signal.

Edit: Just for the heck of it, I punched Tallahassee FL into the TV Fool locator. Obviously, that's not an exact location down to street level, but it does return some interesting info. NBC and ABC are broadcasting at barely 8kW at 24 miles away! I think you're going to need outdoor for that. Now, the good news is, after the transition they're going to increase their transmit strength to 1000kW and 933kW. If you get CBS now, you'll get NBC and ABC then too.

Thanks for you response, fajitamosaic. My house is surrounded by trees all around so I figured that's what's hindering the signal/reception. Anyways, I prepared myself for having to go with an outdoor antenna, but I'm willing try anything before I dive in and go all out with the outdoor setup. It's gonna take a good amount of work it seems like to get that set up. Here's the TV fool analysis:

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post #376 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 01:43 PM
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Have you tried the new ClearStream 2 from Antennas Direct?

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post #377 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 01:46 PM
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No - is that an indoor or outdoor antenna? I'm a newbie at all this antenna stuff. I can barely interpret that TV Fool readout
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post #378 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 01:52 PM
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EV - Have you tried the classic, old, $15.00, set top, double-bowtie model from Radio Shack yet? I didn't notice any mention of it, although I may have missed it.

That was always regarded in the past as one of the top 3 purely set top models, along with the 15-1880 and Silver Sensor.
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post #379 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 01:53 PM
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Hank, Clearstream2 is a new long range outdoor antenna just released yesterday. I haven't seen any reviews on it. Antennas Direct will also be working on SmartAntennas this year, including an indoor antenna - so something may be out to improve your 'circular' reception. I'm too new to antennas to offer help, just so you know what it looks like, here's a link:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/17...2-ota-antenna/
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post #380 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 01:59 PM
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Hank3: You know, those distances don't look too horrible to me. You should be able to get the first five channels on the green section without much help. But those trees... the trees! If you have a bunch of trees, yeah... you want your antenna away from trees (out of the blocking / shadow area anyway).

I haven't read enough on rooftop and outdoor antennas to give advice there, but the TV Fool report suggests that something outside or on the roof will solve all your problems.

Now, for indoor, unless you're in the jungle, I'm wouldn't give up just yet... that TV Fool report just doesn't show the killer distances to rule out an indoor antenna. We're actually a little further from our locals than you are and get them in a basement apartment (one antenna in a window, the other is a UFO near a window). Of course, the closest trees are hundreds of feet away.

If you have a long enough length of coax, I'd try the Radio Shack UFO near a window, preferrably pointing north-east or south-west where the towers are located... then try the fine tuning adjustments on the antenna's remote. You'll definitely want to make sure the gain is set to 2 or 3. Keep in mind, NBC is broadcasting on VHF, so the internal UHF array won't help it one bit. I don't see why you can't get CBS, CW, Fox, and PBS though. ABC might be a lost cause until they jack up the signal power in February.

And if you can try it on the 2nd floor instead of 1st floor (assuming you're on a two-floor house), that'd be all the better.
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post #381 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 02:26 PM
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I had one of those Radioshack 15-1880 antennas. With my Dish 622 receiver I was getting in my locals at about 35-45 miles...through some trees.

Worked great in clear weather, but it was problematic in with audio drops during icky weather (pretty common in Michigan) and required very careful aiming for each station since they are in different cities.

I went from Dish back to Charter with a TivoHD lifetime, expanded basic and a $2 cable card. So no need for the antenna these days. I think I still have it around here somewhere. Hope I didn't throw it away.

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post #382 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 02:50 PM
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fajitamosaic - I'm able to get CBS, FOX, and PBS right now. They all range on the DirecTV signal meter constantly from anywhere between 80-100. They all come in clear aside from the very occasional glitch. I need to get a longer coax to get it closer to a window. Would you recommend putting the UFO unit in the attic? Also, do I need to play with the channel setting? I've been just messing with the 12 positions, the rabbit ears, and the gain. Just to make sure I'm on the same plane - the rabbit ears will only help with NBC feed correct? I haven't been able to pick up any signals for NBC, ABC, and the CW.

Thanks for the link TalkingRat.
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post #383 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 03:33 PM
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Hank3: Yeah, the rabbit ears are for VHF only (real channels #2 - 13), which in your case is NBC.

Not surprised you're having trouble with ABC (too low power) or NBC (VHF), but am surprised the CW doesn't come in... it's just as strong as CBS in your neck of the woods... though that tower is in the opposite direction.

I wouldn't recommend the Radio Shack UFO in an attic, since insulation and whatnot would kill most of the signal... it's not really attic fodder, unless you have a window up there.

Don't worry about the "channel" settings on the UFO, those are for storing settings once you lock them in. Let's say you get strong signals with it set to position 6 and gain of 3, then you can hold the Store button for 5 seconds, pick a channel number, and press the Store button again to lock those settings in to that "channel".

In your situation, based on the signal strengths and tower distances, you should be able to pull-in the CW on top of the other channels you already get with an indoor antenna. WTXL ABC is likely a lost cause with an indoor antenna now, though they'll be ramping up their transmit power significantly after February 2009. NBC is probably a lost cause entirely (low-VHF & low signal power).

For everything in the yellow, red, and gray sections of the TV Fool chart, you're going to need an outdoor antenna...
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post #384 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

EV - Have you tried the classic, old, $15.00, set top, double-bowtie model from Radio Shack yet? I didn't notice any mention of it, although I may have missed it.

That was always regarded in the past as one of the top 3 purely set top models, along with the 15-1880 and Silver Sensor.

I got one in less than pristine shape, should be shipping soon.

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post #385 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Picked up an RCA ANT806 today, couldnt finda Terk TV-55 or a Philips MANT950. Also picked up a GE Futura Indoor/Outdoor which is similar to the Philips MANT940 and RS DA-5200. The indoor GE model model seems to be quite different.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...atalogId=10053

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post #386 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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This from a knowledgable antenna guru on another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitis View Post

What, exactly, is the basis for these comparisons?

I wouldn't expect a single bowtie to outperform a silver sensor.
Even a commercial double bowtie with indoor stand and with undersized reflector (chinese, Channel master CM-4149, Radio Shack 15-623) , while it had higher raw gain, had lower net gain than the silver sensor below channel 32 (often much lower). The DB2 2-bay does outperform the silver sensor by as much as 3dB net gain from 14-51. The silver sensor has a pretty flat 6-7dB net gain over 14-51 and maybe not much less even in low/high VHF (plot is low resolution in that area). Over the same range, a single 7-1/2" 70 degree bowtie with solid triangular plate elements and with no reflector has only about 2-3dBd or 4-5dBi (Antenna Engineering Handbook). The silver sensor outperforms the sharpshooter (SS-3000) on net gain for all channels from 14-51.

The silver sensor is one of the best commercial indoor antennas with the DB-2 2bay outdoor being a good candidate for indoor use if you improvise a stand.

The terk HDTVi is a similar design (clone) to the silver sensor except that instead of swept back wings it they curve forward and it adds rabbit ears for VHF. The HDTVa is the same but with an amplifier built in. Probably not a very good one as they don't cite noise figures. No one seems to have modeled these and no gain/frequency or gain/direction plots seem to be available.

Now some like the radioshack 15-234 simple bowtie. one person gave the impression it might have performed about as well or better as a 4-bay CM-4221. If that is the case, though, his signal might not be coming from the direction he thinks or his signal is too strong. It shouldn't be anywhere close.

Silver sensor is apparently reported to do better than the terk.
http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index...howtopic=19610
but the author might have been confused about which antennas were compared.
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/antin.htm
(silver sensor does very well on carrier to noise especially with a good amp)
and a test report on the radio shack simple bowtie (not much good for comparison):
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/8vsb.htm
I would put the silver sensor right under the DB-2 and the terk below it.


The silver sensor does have one critical flaw. When it is knocked over, the plastic piece that holds the F-connector can separate from the boom and the internal coax connection can break. Thus, I suggest that it be modified with three plastic wireties. hold one flat under the boom and wrap another around the boom forward of the rearmost element pair and tighten. Connect the second wire tie (the one that went inside the loop of the first around the stand. Then use the third to secure the coax cable to the stand.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Stumbed across spectrum analyzer comparison of outdoor antennas Scala 1469, CM-4228, CM-4248, CM-5646, CM3671, Winegard HD7210 and SS1000, and antennas direct 91XG on a 20' mast in houston area.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...72#post6245872
h
Worth looking at the spectrum to compare analog and digital stations. Analog stations were a lot higher but digital stations broader, as you would expect. Be interesting to see what the integrals under those curves (on a linear scale) would be. Digital signals were stronger than the color subcarrier. It was amazing how close adjacent digital/analog or digital/digital stations were.

My response.....

Quote:


That list you quoted is distorted by cable length, location of the antenna, and atmospheric variations, among other things.

If you look at the updated list that I posted. Those were all done closely together on the same day, in the exact same position and location.....with amplified units being driven by their integrated amplifiers, with either a 12ft coax or 2 6ft coaxes joined with a female to female adaptor or by the power injector.

The probable reason why the Silver Sensor and HDTVa are lower on my list, is that they are too directional and I dont have stable signals. Ive got tree scatter, plus a tree line 60 yards out, 100 feet high. It took a lot of fussing to get them to lock some stations. So for my situation and purposes, all the unamped loops and everthing above are preferable to the SS and HDTVa....certainly the Philips MANT510 and MANT940.

Beamwidth matters.

The DB2 and CM 4220 are giving me less dropouts than an xg91 on the roof. Same thing is happening. Of course the xg91 is higher gain.....but the beamwidth matters for my situation.

But I understand where you are coming from. "Stable" multi-path is a whole nother ball of wax, for big city folks.

Im gonna put a signal analyzer on them, when I get one. I was just eyeballing these with my 7 or so digital stations and 3 or so uhf analog stations, knowing which are my weakest and strongest.....with not even a signal meter available from the TV tuner.


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post #387 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

RCA ANT1500...

EV, if I understand you correctly, when you place the ANT1500 in the exact same "sweet spot" as you've used for other indoor antennae, you've gotten the best signal strength of any indoor antenna you've tried other than the RS-1880, and excepting one of your weakest stations....and another with heavy dropouts?
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post #388 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Its comparable to the Double Bows....its all pretty tight thru there. Very good performance. mosaic didnt seem to like it though.

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post #389 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Early impressions of the GE Futura Outoor is that its comparable to the Philips MANT940.

The RCA ANT806 seems to best it on UHF, and be bringing in VHF Lo analogs pretty good. Though I havent been focused on VHF performance with these antennas. Its performance on UHF analogs is very good.

Ill try to do a mini review when I get a chance.


Note to self.....need to rewrite Terk TV-1 on front page and write RCA ANT1500 comments as well.

Terk TV-5 removed from Miscellaneous Design antennas and added to not recommended list, The Dog House, with Jensen TV-931 and RS 1870.

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post #390 of 3329 Old 07-01-2008, 08:49 PM
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The RCA ANT1500... heh, EV, it's not that I didn't like it... the color, the size, the ease of hiding... what's not to like?... it's that it simply didn't perform any better than our unamped loop/rabbit in the same spots. *grin*

I'm sure the whole basement apartment with windows facing north situation is putting unique wrinkles on my experience with antennas. After all, the best I can do is put them near the north facing window... at most 2 feet above ground level (yay phone books!). And all of the towers are east, southeast, and southwest.
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